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Thanong
Thanong Khanthong
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong
Tuesday , August 18 , 2009
Crisis is defused for now
Posted by Thanong , Reader : 3024 , 00:22:07  
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Ticking bomb defused for the time being

Published on August 18, 2009

Political trouble was avoided yesterday, but fuses are sure to be re-lit in the coming weeks

It was a stormy Monday, with a big downpour from the heavens. But the political undercurrents were even more spectacular. The red-shirted supporters of ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra made their way to the Grand Palace to submit a petition for royal clemency on his behalf. Their original schedule was to submit the petition on August 7. But when they realised the Supreme Court's Division for Political Office Holders would be reading out a verdict on the rubber sapling case on August 17, they decided to delay their march to the same date.

Newin Chidchob, leader of the Bhumjai Thai Party, is among 43 defendants in the rubber sapling case. Most people believed the court would find them guilty of corruption. So the timing of both events was manipulated by protesters in the hope of causing another explosive political event.

Fortunately, nothing has happened - as yet.

We saw around 30,000 red shirts making their presence felt at Sanam Luang, in front of the Grand Palace. They came in full force with 500 boxes containing the petition document and the signatures of some three million people. From Dubai, Thaksin phoned in to talk to his supporters and to thank them. Once again he wrote his own script to mix appearance and reality. He told his crowd that he was loyal to the monarchy, and once again we heard that he has been the victim of injustice because his enemies would like to destroy him.

The political symbols were played out to the extreme, with his supporters wearing red, carrying red boxes and assuming a revolutionary stance.

When the red shirts learned the court would delay the reading of the verdict on the rubber sapling case to 2pm, they also delayed their plan to submit the petition from the morning to the same time in the afternoon. Veera Musigapong, one of the core leaders of the red shirts, led Thaksin's supporters to the Wiset Chaisri of the Grand Palace to hand in the petition.

A representative of the Office of the Private Secretary of His Majesty the King came out to accept the petition.

As is the usual protocol, the Office of the Private Secretary of His Majesty the King does not comment on this kind of matter. It will pass the petition to the Abhisit government for vetting before it decides whether or not to take up the petition for deliberation.

The whole petition procedure is flawed from the outset. First, Thaksin has to respect Thai law before he attempts to seek clemency. Second, his family members must seek royal clemency for him - not his hired servants. It appears that none of his family members have signed the petition. Third, the petition should be submitted in a low-key manner rather than in an atmosphere of political intimidation.

So the petition procedure can only be looked upon as a ploy for something big to happen, to coincide with the Supreme Court's verdict that would terribly upset Newin and his blue-shirted supporters, who also went over to Sanam Luang to give him a morale boost.

In the midst of the outcome of the verdict, the blue-shirted mob could have got angry. Then the red shirts could also have become irate. But the crisis was defused.

Adisai Bhodaramik, a former commerce minister and one of the sapling case defendants, could not show up at the courtroom to listen to the verdict. His lawyer informed the court right before the reading of the verdict that Adisai was sick and still in the US. All other defendants were present, except Adisai. By law, the Supreme Court could not read out the verdict if all the defendants were not present. The verdict reading has to be delayed now for a month until September 21.

The judges, however, did not buy Adisai's excuse. They issued an arrest warrant on him. Next time, the Supreme Court will go ahead and read the verdict without any distractions or excuses from defendants.

There is a high possibility that Newin and the other defendants will be found guilty by the court. If that were to be the case, the Thai political landscape would be drastically altered. The chances of Thaksin's return to Thailand would be even dimmer, unless he was willing to serve his time.

Since the Supreme Court announced a delay in the verdict reading, there was no reason for the blue shirts to create any problems. Nor was there any excuse for the red shirts to rock the boat further. Without either group creating turmoil, there was no justification for any military intervention.

The steam from a boiling kettle was released. Another stormy episode has passed. But what's next in store?

Read comment

comment 35
panya date : 23/08/2009 time : 09.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Ian C33

From my comment below C23:

"And please don't say I'm attacking you. I'm not."
.
comment 34
Plaadip date : 23/08/2009 time : 00.31

Ian, I think you've set up a new blog to discuss the history of your animosity with others. I gave one point to you because of that.. Go and discuss it there. Please understand how irrelevant matter to ordinary posters you are discussing here.
comment 33
Ian date : 23/08/2009 time : 00.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Panya, it is clear where you are coming from and I admire the way you have cleverly upped the stakes and your animosity over time. You have been much more shrewd and subtle than ND, who gave himself away much earlier in the game. You have proved to be a very able opponent, I salute you
You might notice that so far I have not attacked you, merely offered a defense for myself. Can I assume that the gloves are now off?
comment 32
panya date : 21/08/2009 time : 17.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Ian C31

I'm not interested in you. I feel sorry for the Asian/Thais on this site who have to put up with your self-righteous supercilious criticisms, and the gang tactics you and your 'friends' employ to belittle those to whom you feel superior.

And to think you were a teacher. No wonder you had to leave.

Humbug!
comment 31
Ian date : 21/08/2009 time : 16.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Panya, ND. Thank you both for your kind attention to myself, your continuous in depth analysis of my character is most enlightening. I would like to return the favour unfortunately I am rather busy at this time. Nonetheless I am sure you have a shrewd inkling of what that might be
comment 30
Plaadip date : 21/08/2009 time : 15.50

Ok, let's forget Ne Win. :) Watching this battle is more interesting anyway.
comment 29
notdisappointed date : 21/08/2009 time : 15.07


master Ian has given us a peep at his deep and respectful ‘CV’ of a full and creative life. A life that has been so full and varied that it is the envy of his sycophants. He’s been a scientist, a politician, a teacher, a spy, a socialist, father and grandfather, and more. Therefore it is not for us to demonize all scientists simply because a mad few created weapons of mass destruction; or insinuate that all politicians are corrupted and bigoted; or that all teachers are full of themselves because of their education; or that all spies are deceitful and manipulative, and not motivated by love of God and country; or that socialist do not care for tradition and monarchy.

No; to know the man, our master Ian, he must be judged rather by his own words and deeds. To fully understand this deep man we must understand whether he has the natural objectivity of a scientist; the selfless sacrifice for public good of a politician; the willingness to learn, change, revise and adapt to new dogmas of a teacher; the seeking of truth and details of a spy; and the wish for a just and equal society of a socialist. Only then can we meaningfully impeach this man’s probity and credibility in the face of his flip-flops, lies by omission (perhaps) through his ignorance, and meanderings that are subject to change due to circumstances and a blog subject, with his every comment and blogs. Account must also be taken of his left-leanings and, subtle and not so subtle defense of his pack with their sermonizing, rants, vents, and Thai bashing which are done from the basis of sincere concern and caring.
comment 28
Plaadip date : 21/08/2009 time : 10.03

I still don't understand why Ne Win wants election now. Are they really prepared? Last week, his candidate of Kamnan election in Burirum was defeted again after the innitial winner was red-carded. The new Kamnan is the wife of the red-carded candidate. I feel the party's popularity in Southern Issan is declining.

And what is the guranntee that his party can get more after the election even if he manages to strike a deal with PT party?
comment 27
panya date : 21/08/2009 time : 09.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Ian C26

Thank you for allowing me my opinion. I am sorry you do not accept my observation or even award it sufficient consideration for a comment, as that means you still maintain that it is the Thai bloggers who are polluting this site. Bigotry! For one who likes to advocate discussion, you fail miserably. .

I was not commenting on the past. I was commenting on what I see at the moment. You claim it is an old enmity which has existed for years, and discount my opinion on that basis. You sound like one of the Thai 'elite' you so despise, justifying the current machinations with history. Be mindful that longevity carries no guarantee of relevance or superiority.

Ian, please rest assured i would not presume to make a judgment on the history of your 'enmity'. I simply pointed out what I currently see as some of the current problems on this site with the current hostilities and the current abuses from current bloggers.

Per se, my observations are perfectly valid whether you deign to consider them or not.

.
comment 26
Ian date : 21/08/2009 time : 00.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Panya, you are entitled to your opinion and as you express it in a civil manner I read it and take it into consideration, even if I do not accept your judgement.
You have not been around for long and so am unaware of much that has gone down the tubes over the years. What you are currently seeing is a resurgence of an old enmity which has existed for years, without knowing the whole history you cannot make a valid judgement.
comment 25
panya date : 20/08/2009 time : 17.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Janus C24

An excellent recommendation, from which we can all learn.

Thank you for quoting as much as you did

.
comment 24
janus date : 20/08/2009 time : 14.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mi58

comment 21/23
Wondering into Thai Culture by Mont Redmond $18.00




Wondering into Thai Culture by Mont Redmond

Be Other-Wise through Others' Eyes


The Western "war on terrorism" has again revived the issue of what this planet's core cultural values should be. Rarely has the discussion strayed beyond the framework of what most global media giants are familiar with, namely Euro-American ideas of freedom vs. security, or fundamentalism vs. secularism. Few people realize that there are alternative ways of looking at the world, or that the core values of other cultures, such as compassion and compromise, could help lighten or resolve the problems of today.

This book offers a wholesome challenge - the culture of Thailand - to the preconceptions of the average English-speaking reader. Thais have long had a very different perspective on life, leaders, language, freedom, and dozens of other subjects touched on between the covers of this book. Before you enter into your next argument about what's right and wrong in the world wouldn't it be worthwhile to get acquainted with a fresh and fascinating point of view, belonging to a people whose every answer seems to end with a smile?

Paperback
Redmondian Insight Enterprises
Bangkok 1998
3rd. Printing 2002
271 pages
ISBN 9748627047

Suggested reading.
See chapter on Quarreling (kan ta'lo kan)
The Gentle Art of Arguing.
Rule 1 Review your Context
"No quarrel is free of consequence.Being an ignorant foreigner, you are vulnerable to to their severity as you are likely to underestimate their scope.Not only can minor offences be magnified beyond reasonable expectation by such imponderables as how much influence the offended party has and what gestures or tones of voice he or she finds insulting,but retaliation can take the most unjustified forms or kept in reserve for surprisingly long periods of time.In Thailand, unlike the presumably more rationalised West, life is not compartmentalized according to field, degree, or intentionality of action.Argue with your landlord one day and you could have your electricity cut the next, or the police on your tail asking for your work permit, or your children threatened on the way to school.A nasty remark to a vendor about the price of her fruit could get your tyres slashed the next time you park there.Your offense and its results may be highly disproportionate, in your sense of the term, but for Thais all proportion may have been lost with that first ugly note in your harangue.You never know."

Rule 1 I have quoted in full.
2 Know your opponent.

3 Seem not to quarrel.

4 Control your temper.

5 Hold the moral high ground.

6Keep It close and personal.

7 Stay on course.

8 Imagine you adversaries point of view.

9 Avoid final judgements, positions and ultimatums.

10 Seek compromise.

Final note/
"Of course you may never see it that way, and neither may the Thai, but the acknowledgement of your common, human origin and of the impermanence which renders all conflicts ultimately futile is more likely to produce quiet acceptance after contention than a vain quest for victory.Disposed to end argument in this time frame of mind, you may find yourself having fewer of them......and enjoying more the ones you do have, as an arguably necessary part of your time in Thailand."

I hope Mont forgives me for quoting at length.
I do recommend the non Asian members of this site to read this book.

In short Western assertiveness versus an Asian non confrontational approach to conflict resolution is a mine field.
comment 23
panya date : 20/08/2009 time : 10.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C21

Ian, just for the record, you are not being fair.

I restrained myself from replying to your comment C19, as it was addressed directly to Thanong, but it would be wrong for me to persist in such restraint.

It is not true that nearly all the personal abuse on this site is generated by Asian/Thai members. The worst personal abuse, maybe, but not the most frequent. And much of that 'worst' personal abuse is a result of provocation by non-Asian/Thai members who know exactly what the result of such provocation will be.

The most frequent personal abuse manifests as bad-language, name-calling, and derogatory insults. That appears on many blogs, and whilst it can be handed out, dealt with, ignored or countered easily by primary language English speakers, it is not so easy for those whose writing and/or language skills are less developed. When they do try to 'give as good as they get', it is often a poor attempt which is then quashed, ridiculed or bettered by the original protagonist, often with the 'support' of another. In such an instance, it is only natural to resort to abuse, as much due to frustration as to anger and humiliation.

The personal attacks you mention are often a figment of your imagination. Such attacks are often comments which criticise or disagree, repeated for emphasis, as a lever for further edification, as frustration, or even for the purpose of discussion (believe it or not). When I joined this site, I believed that people would substantiate their opinions and comments in the form of discussion. When I questioned you, however, I received no such response (clearly your prerogative), so I pushed and repeated myself. It was only reading a different blog a day later that I saw you label me as 'attacking' you. I had never sought to attack you Ian. I was merely asking you to qualify your statements in the light of other statements you had made. As I say, it is your prerogative to reply or not, as you wish. But classifying me on a different blog in a comment to a different person is underhand, you must admit. Whilst that is of no consequence to me, I can see why it would rankle with others, like Expresso for example.

Normally I try not to comment on other bloggers, though of course I do sometimes, and in this case, as you singled out Expresso in your comment, I will likewise. I read the Nationblog for some time before joining, and saw many altercations between you and Expresso (and latterly ND). I also noticed that when he was silent, you would often mention him, or bring his name, into one of your comments. Then as soon as he responded, you flamed him. I have also seen him do the same with you, and you always rise to the bait. That you and he have regular insulting diatribes is therefore of no great surprise to me. But why do you blame him? And why do you call him foul-mouthed when there are farang bloggers on this site who use far worse language and issue far worse insults with no comment (other than the occasional snigger aside) from you? This talking about other bloggers between you and your 'friends' is perfectly conversational, but is it so surprising that those under discussion then fight back, just as they would if the conversation were taking place in one of your British pubs? Personally, I have never had bad language, insults or abuse in my exchanges with Expresso or Peacefulness, although I could quite easily engineer them like other bloggers do, as you well know.

You say the visitors from 'your forum', which I assume is neworangecafe, were disgusted by Expresso and Peacefulness when they visited. Were these the same ones who arrived and greeted the bloggers here with the names that you and your cohorts have awarded them, like Pissfulness, Pissed, Notdisinfected etc etc? On what basis do they visit here and behave like school children? They, like you, advocate democracy, freedom of speech and empowering the Thais to speak out, but fail to practice what they preach. Just because you think ill of some bloggers does not justify members of your forum calling them names and joining forces to intimidate and belittle, unless of course they are self-proclaimed nazis.

I'm sure you are right in saying that long time sensible bloggers have moved on, due to the direction this site has taken. I agree that it is more like a gutter than a forum. But I think you are wrong segregating the readers into a 'bunch of political morons' and 'a few like my(your)self namely yuri, BR, Felix, PJ and HJ'. How do those you have singled out measure up when it comes to personal attacks and abusive language? And are they Asian/Thais as you claim?

Do not misunderstand me. I, like you, despair about the standards of blogging here. But, unlike you, I do not lay the blame at the feet of those least responsible. Deleting comments, banning people, trashing and bashing them will not solve the problem. A couple of days ago, you suggested I ignored comments I didn't like. Most of the time, I do. When I see there is trolling, I scroll past it. When there is an outburst from a blogger, I scroll past it. But when I see provocation, I note it and wait for the response. It's simple psychology. Call a woman a bitch, and she'll react. Insult a Thai person's revered monarch, and they'll react. Call people names, and they'll react. Insult people's culture, and they'll react. Abuse, and be abused.

And please don't say I'm attacking you. I'm not. I am commenting on your complaint to Thanong which in my opinion is condescending, hypocritical and biased.

Ian, just for the record, you are not being fair.

.
comment 22
Plaadip date : 20/08/2009 time : 10.26

Ian, why can't you just ignore each other? My impression is that both of you are enjoying this.
comment 21
Ian date : 20/08/2009 time : 07.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, just for the record, Expresso is an evil, foul mouthed, pig headed individual who in the old days would have been banned from this site both for his non stop personal attacks and for his abusive language.
There are many intelligent, educated and informed Thais in my forum who have visited here and are disgusted and amazed at the comments and language of Expresso and Peacefulness, they cannot accept that they are Thais.
Many of the long time sensible bloggers from the Nation have now moved. Soon all you will have left here are a bunch of political morons and a few like myself, yuri, BR, Felix, PJ and HJ who are immune to their insults. GG goes his own way.
This is what the Nation blog has become, is this what you and Yoon wanted.
comment 20
expresso date : 20/08/2009 time : 01.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

c19, you are wrong!

Look at the many educated Thai bloggers here and then look at many of you farang bloggers especially the Brit ones. Ian, you have got you head in the sand, my man!

Sometimes I think I'm the only one who defends good Thai woman when the farangs go out of their ways defending some trash!
comment 19
Ian date : 20/08/2009 time : 01.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, 16. You and I have had both fights and agreements for some time now, but I don't think we have ever sunk to the level of personal abuse which currently exists here. I think it is correct to say that nearly all of this abuse is generated by the Asian/Thai members. Note I say nearly all.
Have you any comment on this?
comment 18
Plaadip date : 19/08/2009 time : 19.05

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/152148/rubber-sapling-case-a-win-win-situation-for-newin

Sorry for pasting the article of the rival news paper again. But if the time is 6 month, Newin may be able to stand it, I guess. He has a person with a different upbringing from Thakisn anyway.

But.......... probably this is a wishful thinking of the auther.
comment 17
Plaadip date : 19/08/2009 time : 16.37

K. Thanong, Thank you for having answered my question. I think if he gets a jail sentence without saty of execution, (and he won't flee) it will be really historical.

I hope your prediction will be wrong, because I think any governments after toppling Abhisit's would be worse than the current one.
comment 16
Thanong date : 19/08/2009 time : 10.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

ND, your English writing is farang level, so people think that you're farang or half Thai half farang. 55555555555555.

Ian, since we should not fight, then why don't bloggers try to expand on my perspective rather than sending in hate messages.
comment 15
Ian date : 19/08/2009 time : 07.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND,14. " we fight on the blogs", it is indeed a pointless exercise. We can do nothing, I doubt if our readership is enough to do anything. Yet we waste energy fighting and insulting each other.
Rather like Thai politicians and leaders, quite sad really.
comment 14
notdisappointed date : 19/08/2009 time : 01.34


c13, and while they fight on the streets and we fight on the blogs; the ultimate loser is Thailand.

K. Thanong, I've just been found out. They have now found that I'm not really Thai. I guess by the way I write they must think me to be a stupid farang like: hermoine, Ian, br, wanna-be american pj, and the mutt maxwell. Sorry if I missed oout on any other caring and concerned farang.

I have been found out; I'm not Thai.
comment 13
Thanong date : 19/08/2009 time : 00.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Now it is the turn of the Red and the Blue to incite the turmoil -- not the Yellow. We are witnessing a reversal of the situation. Red wants money and power back. Blue wants to fill in as new power. Military intervention would only go to supporting those two camps. Yellows are waiting awkwardly in the wing, not knowing how to react or what to move next. Democrats are playing dumb.
comment 12
Thanong date : 19/08/2009 time : 00.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Plaadip:
I guess Blue shirts would like Yellow shirts to come out. Red shirts would wear Black shirts to rally on Gen Prem's birthday next week. I see the turmoil will continue before climaxing in October. By that time, govt is broke.
comment 11
Ian date : 18/08/2009 time : 23.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Anyone who has ever run an office know that the more things you put in the "pending" tray the greater the potential for ultimate disaster. Abhasit's pending tray is overflowing.
comment 10
BangkokRay date : 18/08/2009 time : 21.33

Reds lied again, as usual.




nd,
They are learning how you guys play the game. How does it feel?
Gotta remember, these are merely stupid farmers and taxi drivers, but they are capable of learning.
comment 9
notdisappointed date : 18/08/2009 time : 20.56


wch, Adisai was the former owner of Jasmine Telecom, he got many cabinet postitions during the junrai's regime. He was formerly a financier for Chart Thai (brought in by Na Chart).

Reds lied again, as usual. they said that after they present their petition they will cease and desisit from any further demonstrations with reagrd to said petition. Well now they plan to have a demonstration to pressure the petition be presented to HMK for his deliberance.

Liars like these are heroes for br and his packmates. They all said let the petition be presented and afterwards; let it go through the proper channels.

OK; it's now in the process of going through the proper channels. Why trhe rush? Afraid that after taking out close to 2,000,000 names from the petition that more names will be found out to be 'bogus'? The MoI did a good job by getting 10,000,000 names of those who are against this 'political' petition.
comment 8
Plaadip date : 18/08/2009 time : 19.36

K Thanong

What do you think about this?

From Bangkok Post

Bhumjaithai to propose amnesty law

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/152070/bhumjaithai-to-propose-amnesty-law
comment 7
panya date : 18/08/2009 time : 18.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Chris C5

There's a translation (from the BP I think) which was posted by
Peacefulness Comment 53 on:

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad/2009/08/15/entry-2

I think it's rather weak.
comment 6
Plaadip date : 18/08/2009 time : 17.01

"There is a high possibility that Newin and the other defendants will be found guilty by the court. If that were to be the case, the Thai political landscape would be drastically altered. The chances of Thaksin's return to Thailand would be even dimmer, unless he was willing to serve his time."

I don't understand this point. I thnik logically "yes", Thaksin's chance to return without serving the jail sentence will get dimmer. But if it will be put into the context of real politics in Thaland, what's going to happen? How wiil MPs under Ne Win's inflence respond to the verdict. What will be their next political move?
comment 5
Chris-TH date : 18/08/2009 time : 15.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Chris-TH

K. Thanong,

It seems that you are one of the lucky people that managed to read the petition. Even the Gov. does not know where to forward it (whether it is a complaint or a plead for clemency).

So considering you lucky position, could you please do us a favour and provide an English translation of the petition??
comment 4
wch date : 18/08/2009 time : 10.41

Anyhow, who is Adisai ? Is he the son-in-law of the old man,,,,what's his name ?.

Anyhow in Thailand, son-in-law is disposable syringe.
comment 3
wch date : 18/08/2009 time : 10.37

Steam out indeed !.
It was like chicken fight stage that neither of cocks was willing to dash. Feed was not enough ?
Thaksin phone-ins must have been 'lip service' only this time.
All the amatayans enjoy bonus now, how come no bonus to the Red ? Khun Thaksin ?.
'Khanom Zin Kaeng Kyowan mai mi namya', even dog won't eat.

Even the mouse is served with cheese often (I knew Happyjack feeds his mouse cheese when computer is dull).

Khun Thaksin would fire Nopochor Trio and appoint new generation leaders,,,,,,
What about Pan Thong Tae !!!
comment 2
dryshrimp date : 18/08/2009 time : 07.40
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dryshrimp

Just spotted Adisai in Paris last month.

Some friends joked, "He might have got the french flu from there."
comment 1
BangkokRay date : 18/08/2009 time : 00.49

You and nd have another 30 days. Congratulations.
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