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Thanong
Thanong Khanthong
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong
Tuesday , June 9 , 2009
Thaksins web becomes steadily more tangled
Posted by Thanong , Reader : 2068 , 08:45:37  
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Thaksin's web becomes steadily more tangled

But as the fugitive PM refuses to go away, the incumbent faces his own bus-deal challenge

What is former prime ministerShinawatra Thaksin up to now? And what is current prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva obsessed with? Thaksin is licking his wounds. He has been lying low and is conspicuously quiet. After a failed attempt to return to power on April 13, Thaksin has tried to plot a comeback by overthrowing the Abhisit government. Abhisit's obsession is how to hang on to his premiership as long as possible.

Thaksin's immediate dilemma is how to unlock his sequestered money. More than six months ago, the UK authorities froze his funds transferred into the UK for the purpose of acquiring the Manchester City Football Club. Then Thaksin's ultimate goal was to obtain a licence to operate a casino business. The Manchester City Football Club deal would pave the way for the licence.

But since Thaksin's money came from dubious sources and under other people's names, the UK authorities sealed off all the bank accounts until the real owner stepped forward.

These dubious financial shenanigans, believed to amount to more than US$4 billion (Bt140 billion), led the UK to ban the visas of both Thaksin and his wife Pojaman.

He could pay some fine and get his money back from UK bank accounts.

Apparently, Thaksin has accumulated more foreign assets than Thai assets. His foreign assets have not been properly declared. The main chunk of his domestic assets is the proceeds from the Bt76-billion sale of Shin Corp to Temasek Holdings of Singapore. This has also been frozen by Thai authorities, pending investigation into charges that he is unusually wealthy.

Thaksin's untouchable assets in the UK have attracted very little attention. It is also difficult to get a grip on the story because these foreign assets are under the names of his nominees. Thaksin's foreign assets also include his margin loans. The UK authorities have given the beneficial owner(s) of the frozen $4 billion six months to step forward and reclaim the money. The deadline now has expired.

But, by law, the UK banks cannot actually "take" the money without somebody, such as the Thai Attorney-General, coming up with a proceeds-of-crime application. The UK banks and also the UK government have been pretty upset that Thailand is not pursuing any claims with the urgency required.

So Thaksin's best bet is to ensure that no formal and serious claim to the money by Thailand is made over the next year or so. The UK banks will then be unable to hold on to the money and Thaksin may get away with a fine.

But another complication to Thaksin's attempt to reclaim the money is that he is technically not a Thai anymore. The Thai government cancelled his passport after he played a role in instigating political turmoil on Bangkok streets. Without a Thai passport, Thaksin would not be able to produce a Thai document to back the claim for his money from the UK banks.

We do not know what is going on with Thaksin's money overseas and why there has been no attempt from the Thai government, particularly the Foreign Ministry or the Attorney-General, to pursue the claim. Remember Thaksin has never claimed that he has any money abroad. But then where did he get the money to acquire the Manchester City Football Club, which he later sold, and make all kinds of investment in various countries?

As long as Thaksin has the monetary means, he will continue to be the mover and shaker of Thai politics because most local players want to have a piece of the pie.

Now let's get back to Abhisit. His immediate agenda is how to get an NGV bus deal through.

He said on Saturday that the NGV bus project must definitely be implemented. He said the project would benefit city residents but the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB) has yet to study whether the 4,000 buses should be bought or leased.

He said the study by the NESDB, which is a non-partisan organisation, will allow the government to answer to the public why the government would go ahead with the project. He said the project was needed because the government could not allow the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority to continue operating at a loss. He said city commuters should also be treated to new and clean buses, which are environmentally-friendly.

While serving as head of the opposition, Abhisit tried to block this deal in whatever form. Now, he is using the NESDB to whitewash the bus deal. While Sophon Saram, the transport minister, has proposed a leasing programme for the 4,000 NGV buses, Abhisit and the Democrats are now tilting toward a purchase.

The NESDB would not screen this deal as it is supposed to do so in its capacity as the government's think tank. Instead, the NESDB would lend support to this bus deal in the manner of a reliable rubber stamp.

Rumours are swirling that the commission up front for this bus deal belonging to the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority is Bt25 billion. The Finance Ministry might be brought in to provide a guarantee in order to lower the cost of financing.

That's it for Thailand - with an ousted PM trying to secure the return of his money and a sitting PM trying to force his way with the NGV bus scheme that have nothing to do with the central policy to jump-start his economy via a more viable stimulus package.


Read comment

comment 58
notdisappointed date : 28/06/2009 time : 20.45

Ian, Thanks for your referral. I already am familiar with both concept and meanings of Tyrant and Dictator.


Both terms can be used in the context of thaksin however it doesn't quite give the same 'feel' to me. I view a tyrant as one who 'siezes power unconstitutionally' wherewas a dictator is given absolute power under times of pressing need by the then representatives of the people. Although both then have absolute power with no check and balances it still doesn't give the meaning I seek for the present tense as it were..

Therefore I termed the phrase "Democratic Dictator" to give myself a logically definition of what thaksin had almost was successful in doing.
comment 57
Ian date : 27/06/2009 time : 17.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

~ND, as I suspected your word usage is wrong, please read this and learn a new word
http://www.livius.org/tt-tz/tyrant/tyrant.html

If you are interested in the evolution of power structures you may find this of interest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dictator
comment 56
notdisappointed date : 27/06/2009 time : 13.21

A democratic dictator: A person who under the guise of democracy, seeks to circumvent and undermine the very facets of democratic principles and their underlying checks and balance. A person who ignores the true intent and spirit of democracy. Who uses'majority' as an excuse to justify integrated policy corruption and hijack the constitution for his and his cronies and sycophants benefit. Who intimidates and muzzle the media and press. Who uses the law to silence and harass his critics; but ignores and sets himself up above those same laws.
comment 55
Ian date : 26/06/2009 time : 22.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Al, 54. If you read the things s/he has written to me in the past, I don't think this is possible.
If s/he would fight like a normal person, one comment at a time I would unlock my posts, but his intention is to make them unusable by posting 60+ long comments at one go so any real comments get swamped. Unless the Nation does something about it I can do nothing.
However, so far he does seem to have the sense not to attack me in other people's blogs, so I can still comment and respond to other's comments.
Additionally I have my own forum which is free from him.
He has now returned to the BP forum under 2 new names but was instantly recognised because of his unique writing style.
The few blogs he has published here are actually "copy and Paste" articles by other bloggers.
He is like a "cold" irritating but not deadly
comment 54
Al date : 26/06/2009 time : 18.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/albert

Ian,
I saw all your posts are closed to comments. How long do you think this will last? Is there no other way to come to an aggrement with Kant? This situation (that you are not able to post) is not acceptable. May be his friends should talk with him...
comment 53
Ian date : 26/06/2009 time : 02.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, 52. Political terminology is getting very confusing these days, what is a democratic dictator?
comment 52
notdisappointed date : 23/06/2009 time : 19.01

stevensin, you're back and as confused as ever. No way can thaksin be comared to Mandela.

You should have compared him with Fujimori of Peru; a much better comparison or a Hun Sen who has used his Khmer democracy to become what thaksin wanted all along to be: a democratic dictator.
comment 51
Steven_ date : 23/06/2009 time : 09.24

With time, patience and perseverence the web of Thaksin will soon be untangled. History has shown that. eg Mandela After all Thai political situation is such a mess with the interference of the military which must be put to rest at all cost.
comment 50
notdisappointed date : 22/06/2009 time : 15.00

The Thai way Ian does not include: "the peoples rebellion way". That's the socialist's way and we have no socialist in Thailand only those who will use the people for their own selfish reasons.
comment 49
Ian date : 21/06/2009 time : 23.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND,48. There seem so many Thai ways of doing things, there is the military coup way, the Executive way, the courts way,the peoples rebellion way, the Royal advice way. which way will it be?
comment 48
notdisappointed date : 16/06/2009 time : 17.33

I'm pragmatic; and expect things to be done the Thai way. And I prepare for that eventuality.
comment 47
bzzzzzBee date : 15/06/2009 time : 21.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/beehive

you're later than me, ian ... i grew pessimistic earlier ... hence my worst of the worst case scenario. if i carry any optimisim on me, it's the optimisim of others who are fervently hopeful that they will be change for the better.
comment 46
Ian date : 15/06/2009 time : 02.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

panya 45. I am starting to get bored with Thai politics, it is a basket case. I t is so easy to see what is wrong, it is easy to see what needs to be done to put it right. Yet impossible to see how to do it without either a popular uprising or several generations of education.
What is clear is Abhasit cannot do it.
comment 45
panya date : 14/06/2009 time : 17.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C43

I very much hope you are right, and there is an increased involvement of the populace in politics as a result of the populist policies of the 'landslide administration'. Personally, I doubt it. I think the MPs in the areas of the newly awakened populace will merely ensure a regular supply of handouts to keep the votes in place, and their own 'elected' paws in the big coffers. As I'm sure you would agree, giving someone a mobile phone does not help them afford the fill-up cards, just as paying off a farmer's debt does not assist him in farming more profitably or productively, and waving a gambler's water bill does not make them throw away their cards.

As we have seen from the recent rhetoric at demonstrations, the populace are no closer at understanding democracy than they were before their exiled leader forgot his misdeeds and began claiming to be its champion.

In a similar vein, maybe someone should start campaigning for a revision in the schools'/universities' syllabus and an examination into teaching methods, rather than throwing money into primary schools for laptops.
comment 44
Ian date : 14/06/2009 time : 16.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Alien 43, the next step now is for the reds and yellows to realise that though their leaders may be antagonists for personal reasons, they, the ordinary members, seek the same goals.
comment 43
Alien date : 14/06/2009 time : 11.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Hello Ian,

Yes, he used the rural poor as his power base so I would agree that their recent involvement in politics was a good, albeit unintended, benefit that arose during Thaksin's administration. I hope that with the increased involvement of the populace in politics, Thailand will edge towards a fairer society as these people stand up for their own interests. I hope it doesn't turn out like the it appears to in the U. S., where nearly 50% of the population doesn't even pay taxes and their interests, as capitalized upon by Obama, is to maintain paying no taxes while obtaining more government benefits and achieving this by taxing the "rich" (nee: working educated class) or by deficit spending. I perceive a downward spiral over here. Interesting note: People polled who thought that the Republicans were in control of congress were more likely to vote for Obama than people who actually followed politics and knew that congress was in control of the Democrats. The wisdom of the unknowing.
comment 42
Ian date : 13/06/2009 time : 19.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Alien, "For all those who admit Thaksin was corrupt...but...then mention the good things he did"

Fine just so long as you agree he did do some good things then no problem. Have I ever said the good and the bad balance out? All I am saying is he did some good. The most important thing he did, intentionally or otherwise, was to awaken a political awareness in the rural poor which never existed before. He let the genie out of the bottle and no one can put it back.
comment 41
Alien date : 13/06/2009 time : 11.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

For all those who admit Thaksin was corrupt...but...then mention the good things he did, it reminds me of what I had heard was a common saying after WW2. "Sure Mussolini was a dictator, but the trains ran on time". I'm sure this saying is familiar to Ian and others on this blog and it doesn't excuse Mussolini, just as Thaksin's good deeds don't excuse the many excesses he initiated.
comment 40
massein date : 13/06/2009 time : 08.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

C34 No
C35 Yes, does it matter?
C36 Do you have the same delusion of most Thai, that Ian are myself went to our back yards
and picked the ß off a tree. And no, we weren't ripped off bye ppl we assisted, thats not my concern, the concern is that the ppl in power will rip off our families!
As for Lalida, speaking for myself, I greatly respect her efforts, but do not often agree with her,That my communist friend is demoracy
We can agree to disagree without being rude.
comment 39
Ian date : 13/06/2009 time : 02.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, Margaret was one of the people who first got me interested in anthropolgy, unfortunately now largely discredited. Yes as we say in England, "Mighty oaks from little acorns grow", unfortunately this saying leaves out the fact that it takes a 100 years or more. yes, there is hope for Thailand, but in my lifetime, I'm not so sure, i'm not even sure I would be allowed to live here to see it. Are Thais really aware of how many westerners are literally being driven out of their country by increasingly draconian regulations aimed just at us.

As for Expresso, he managed to drag Lalida into two comments all on his own, then says that I am infatuated with her This is so typical of the Chinese Thai, obsessive is the best word, they hate the idea of Farangs entering their hunting preserves. The Thais belong to them, theirs to milk and theirs to own.
comment 38
notdisappointed date : 13/06/2009 time : 00.35

c32 - Ian, as an anthropologist, you might be able to appreciate Margaret Meade had to say about how a small group of people can effect change if they are sincere and committed.

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed it’s the only thing that ever had. “

An example of that is the American Revolution between 1775 to 1783. Of all the men in the 13 colonies who could have fought for freedom, only 16% did.

I hope that the above gives you encouragement as you seek, with all of us, to fix a glitch in the status quo.
comment 37
expresso date : 12/06/2009 time : 23.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

In fact, massein, you have not yet learned after you were ripped off. And you want to meet Lalida?
comment 36
expresso date : 12/06/2009 time : 23.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Ian does give many sensible comments, but the time it's required of him, he goes the opposite.

He ain't no sage to me when he can be fooled by Lalida. Your idol too? You are all the same to me.

What hard-earned money except that Thailand is cheap that you have selected to live?!

Why complain about the 90-day reporting of the address? When I was in the US, I was also required to report my address every 6 months. So? Big fcuking deal! I never complained when I lived in the upscale country like the USA. So, take a reflection!
comment 35
expresso date : 12/06/2009 time : 23.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Are you really a Texan?
comment 34
expresso date : 12/06/2009 time : 23.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

massein, the next time you say something, can you not say it without saying you agree with Ian and Lalida?
comment 33
massein date : 12/06/2009 time : 16.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

I have to agree with Ian, whats the use? All Thai
parties attempting to obstruct the others never accomplishing anything beyond line their on pockets, Ian has spent a great deal of his hard on money attempting to improve the lives of Thai ppl in the villege hes resides in, just as I have. Now it seems that every week there is a new attack on Western PPL who want to spend their retirement years here, G are they going to conficate my mother in laws house and my wifes house , since i have build 2, Is the retirement visa going to require 1000000ß next.
I really wonder how many one man peace corp
operations like Ian's there are, forget the NGOs, but just ppl attempting to make the world a better place with their hard money
comment 32
Ian date : 12/06/2009 time : 04.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, I never stopped being friends, but it became difficult when BR from the BP joined here as I am also friends with him. I think you both got bogged down with recriminations about the past and so the present and the future got lost
I must admit I am getting bored with the Thai political scene, it is just talk and more talk.
Apart from a few handouts of cash and vouchers what has been achieved?
Also as a Farang I am increasingly fed up with the way your government, any government, treats us Farangs. I had hoped that Abhasit with his British upbringing would have removed some of the more draconian measured against Farangs,in fact they have become much worse.
I truly don't understand Thais, if you try to help you get a slap in the face. Perhaps coming back to England for a few months has made me realise how nice it is not to be a second class citizen, not to have to grease people's hands in order to survive. Sorry, I am feeling bitter, the smile has gone from the land of smiles. in my area it is replaced with drunken laughter.
comment 31
notdisappointed date : 12/06/2009 time : 01.14

Ian, I agree wholeheartedly and am glad you've decide to come back.

friends?
comment 30
Ian date : 11/06/2009 time : 23.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

All my knowledge of Thailand is 99% second hand, I glean it from many sources, the press, Thai and foreign, from blogs and from a few inside informants.
I collate, I listen to ND, wch, BR, netnapit, thanong , yoon, and I apply the principles of parsimony and commonsense.
Too many writers here seem intent on making points, I prefer to make observations, many people seem to regard an observation as an attack on Thailand, that to me as silly as saying I attack Thailand if I say it is hot, it obviously is a true observation.
Now with politics everyone agrees that it is swimming in a sea of corruption, but everyone is trying to say that the group they support are less corrupt than others.
I disagree, corruption is not just about money or power, non corruption is about promises, keeping one's word, transparency, accountability.
So to me Abhasit is as corrupt as the rest, just in a different way, like every other PM including Thaksin he will compromise any principle to stay in power.
all this talk about having to stay to supervise the police, military and regional reshuffles is a smoke screen, as is the 2010 budget. Any real political party would have this all planned in advance, as soon as they were elected they could implement it.
When the British current Labour party produced their budget recently, the Conservatives and Liberals produced their shadow budgets.
The real problem with Thai politics, as has been said by others, is there are no political parties, no agendas, no manifestos, just fluctuating groups of self seeking individuals.
Abhasit is not the head of the Democracy party, there is no such party, he just heads up a group of self seeking mutually cooperating politicians.
some of them aren't even legally politicians, there are banned from politics. If Newin is banned how can he be permitted to be as active as he is, the entire political structure is a farce.
This is why I am increasingly reluctant to discuss Thai politics, there are no politics, it is just self interest groups.
Everytime I read the news, I mean the real news, not the censured Thai news, I see more instances of Thailand shooting itself in the foot.
Until Thais can look themselves in the face and admit that Thailand is no longer a place of, "rice in the fields and fish in ther rivers", but rather a sick, corrupted nation, things will never get better, the will for change has to come from the people and the people say, "mai pen rai" we just want "sanook".
Why do I, a Farang who can't speak Thai, know these expressions? Because I hear them all the time. Thailand is not the "Land of smiles" it is the land of lotus eaters.

Ok rant over now
comment 29
stalingrad date : 11/06/2009 time : 18.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Ian c.25: No, don't stop discussing Thai politics. We need your (and other foreigners) input, for many reasons.

Come on, Ian, don't be too sensitive. The excitement and relevence of poltics is far too important to be left to stupid politicians. Do your duty and share your obviously vast experience.

As for a Thaksin hate club in this blog, I don't see any such club, and I don't see any Thaksin bashing at all. What I see is only corruption-bashing, cheating-bashing, and maybe a conspiracy to get rid of immoral politicians. Is that such a bad thing? It's just too bad Thaksin strayed in to catch the flak; but he did it on his own free will.

One day I am going to expound the good things Thaksin did, but later. Complements are so wimpish, somebody said. 555
comment 28
notdisappointed date : 11/06/2009 time : 16.01

Ian, I meant br, not you, you are a young man whose comments and views are always welcome.

Don't pout! It wasn't meant as an attack on you. K?
comment 27
Plaadip date : 11/06/2009 time : 10.36

Finally, Thanong seems to have more solid information(confirmation?) on Thaksin's frozen money in the UK. By the way, how Thaksin was able to purchase Manchester City when the money was frozen? Why did the British action take place 6 month ago after he resold the club?
comment 26
wch date : 11/06/2009 time : 05.34

India, is called, the world largest democracy country but it shows a few street demonstration for sake of the principle of democracy. Why ?.

The democracy was grafted into their strong political culture such as caste system. And the democracy keeps minor voice in the society. Their political culture keeps the society in order.

Here, most of foreigners make approach with principles while Thais, knowing it, have detaste on their attitude and become resistant.

Thais people know the problem very well but they are lost how to implement it because the majority of population merely regard politics as a 'Game' to commercial worth.
Military wanted to pick the wrong train back on track but they became quickly corrupted by themselves. That is why needs general people's movement like PAD to self-taught. If they form main stream of general currents, the society will change by itself. Common personality of Thai people do not do big struggles such as revolution, Rather than western anti-virus shot, they resort to long herbal treatment, even on swine flu patients,,,
This is pure Thai style.
comment 25
Ian date : 11/06/2009 time : 01.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I think I will stop discussing Thai politics in this site, Thais get too defensive on this topic, after all what can a geriatric foreigner know about Thai politics, we just live here under sufferance, "pay up and shut up" is our role.
It seems one has to hate Thaksin to join this club, I'm too old for that, I used to hate, but it is a distructive emotion, I gave it up years ago. Now my strongest emtion is dislike, even someone like Kant I don't hate, I just feel sorry for him.
comment 24
noonin date : 10/06/2009 time : 20.30
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Comment 23
Mutate!
Ninja turtles perhaps?
comment 23
wch date : 10/06/2009 time : 19.45

Thai democracy had been imported and introduced by guidance. People have commercialized it to own profit. Today they tried to correct it by immitating UK. This is impossible.

Thais people try to immitate Japan or Korean style. This is impossible because both cultural genes are different, as much as that difference with UK people.

Thai people are lost.
They need total spirit movement to mutate total value of people.
PAD movement must continue to that. PAD must endure the struggle with the democracy merchants who will resist in any means.

Education must go along to the future. It takes another 50 years.
comment 22
panya date : 10/06/2009 time : 18.58

C20

Really Ian, nobody is telling you whom to hate. Though I wonder how you can have hated the dictator Hitler, and only hated what Thaksin revealed about Thai culture? Everybody knew it was corrupt from top to bottom - he just campaigned against it, and then proceeded to show how he could do it better than anyone else. Can't you see why people hate that? Coupled with the murders and the human rights abuses on a gross scale?

The Thai people did not allow and accept what he did. They could do nothing about it. And in the few cases where they could, the framework was dismantled before they could get there. Many of my friends were in despair at his steamrollering, but there was absolutely nothing they coudl do, and stay unharmed. They were helpless, believe me.

What do you think the Germans should have done under Hitler? Tried to fight the SS? Get real, man.
comment 21
panya date : 10/06/2009 time : 18.42

C16

I wish I could believe you, that without Thaksin's leadership and funding the reds would fade away. I doubt that, as he has awoken many to the fact that they can preach and be believed regardless of whether or not there is any truth or foundation in what they are saying. He has also rolled out a bandwagon which can act as a platform for all those driven by power and greed, and suggested that they too can bleed the system and their compatriots as he did so successfully.

I too find it strange that he has so hoodwinked so many foreigners, but I imagine they like him for his pragmatic and autocratic style of leadership, as it certainly gets things done, looks glossy, and suits those with a better standard of living like them, and those ideas of his which were good were well noticed. In a country where things move fairly slowly and get forgotten more often than not, his "I don't care, just do it" style might seem welcome to those missing what they fondly remember as their own efficient and productive countries. Examining the minutiae and the long term social evaluation of his actions maybe requires more time and thought than the average foreigner wishes to devote.

I don't know what that other blogger meant by 'find someone else to dish' - I can only say that for me only Suchinda Kraprayoon has caused such social turmoil and hatrid, and it wasn't on the scale of what Voldemartra has achieved. Even the ubiquitous 'mai pen rai' will have trouble committing him to history.
comment 20
Ian date : 10/06/2009 time : 18.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, 16. "An old geriatric blogger" Why not call me an old geriatric Farang blogger?
Let me tell you something my friend, I spent my childhood hating a man called Hitler and the people he led, a few years later I was touring in Germany. I have been told to dislike Russians, Turkish Cypriots, Chinese, Vietnamese, Cubans, etc etc.
Who tells me whom to hate? It is my government and the media propaganda machine.
Now I am adult I have many Chinese friends, Two Russian friends, a Cuban friend, and so on, I am not prepared to have my hates and likes dictated by others.
If some bloggers here want to maintain a constant hate campaign against Thaksin, that is fine, no skin off my nose. But don't expect me to join you like a moronic camp follower.
Amongst all the bad things he has done I can see a few important good things. One of the most important ones in my opinion is that he has created a situation in Thailand were people are seriously starting to think and talk about democracy in a Thai context.
Thaksin was the litmus test of Thai culture and society, it revealed that Thailand was corrupt from the top to the bottom. I don't hate Thaksin, I hate what he revealed about Thai culture.
You hate the man because as a Thai it is easier to do that than to admit you share the responsibility. Think about it Thaksin did what he did because you, the Thai people allowed and accepted it. You will defend yourself by saying he cut away at the controls such that eventually you, the people, were helpless. This is the excuse of all people under a dictatorship, you sit back and do nothing until it is too late.

Don't just hate Thaksin, hate yourself.
comment 19
noonin date : 10/06/2009 time : 18.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Maybe that was too cryptic.
All power corrupts.
Robespierre was at first against the death penalty.
Napoleon made himself the new king.
Beware of revolutions.
comment 18
noonin date : 10/06/2009 time : 17.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Robespierre, Thaksin, Napoleon compare and contrast.
comment 17
noonin date : 10/06/2009 time : 17.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

commet 16

He is the lightning rod and instigator of any dissent and only he is able to, by his death or his words bring reconciliation to our country.

No sensible person believes his words anymore.
I do no advocate assassination.
A term in prison for his illegal activities, a long one, with time to contemplate all those he has by his words, acts, killed or harmed.
comment 16
notdisappointed date : 10/06/2009 time : 17.17

c 14/15.

It's not that I wonder why there is so much support for thaksin but at times I wonder why there are thaksin apologist within the foreigner blogger community as well a couple of Thais. Yes they say that there it's more then thaksin; that there truly are disaffected people out there. However its more like a distraction and twisting of reality to a different perspective. To turn attention away from the source of divisiveness. It is thaksin who has used his reds as a rallying point for his supporters. The reds in and of themselves without thaksin's leadership and funding, would just wither away.

You both have summarized concisely and succinctly all that those of us found disappointing and distasteful about thaksin. As Thais who can see through and understand his propaganda and his undermining of democracy; it will always be about thaksin. An old geriatric blogger had snidely said that if there were no thaksin then we would be finding someone else to 'dish'. Untrue; if thaksin were to die today; then most of the divisiveness we see today would be over. He is the lightning rod and instigator of any dissent and only he is able to, by his death or his words bring reconciliation to our country.

It's all about thaksin.
comment 15
panya date : 10/06/2009 time : 13.12

C14

Surely this is all just part of the game, to use and twist the laws to your own benefit, to foresee how you could be caught and change the rules just in time. It makes you clever, it makes you rich, it proves your superiority, always one step ahead of the few who try to rein you in. Of course it is totally immoral and unethical, but that is of no consequence when the result is MONEY, and that surely is GOD to those politicians and elite whose lives are dictated by their greed at the people's expense, and they justify it by thinking they are better than the common person who is just stupid for not understanding what they're doing.

That's what made me loathe Thaksin, his pious and caring veneer, a mask to hide his deceit and contempt for those who repeatedly voted him into power, believing his mask, his half-truths and his blatant manipulation of the system. I watched my family and my staff admire him, and then wonder why they got so little of what he promised, and why he got so much on such a false and devious basis. And they didn't read the papers, so they were oblivious to his more extreme and underhand practices. It was pitiful. Even when in exile, when he claimed he had no money, workers and people with almost nothing in Isaan were collecting money for him. Which he was happy to TAKE. Disgusting.

And now we have Chalerm and friends, tongues out for any drip from Thaksin's wallet, spitting in the face of the law and the people's trust. They are scum, or worse. But they all claim to be good Buddhists, doing what they do for the people. Yuk!

I fear for my children's future.
comment 14
stalingrad date : 10/06/2009 time : 09.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

K. Expresso c.13, K. Peacefulness c.11

What I don’t understand is there are so many Thai people in high places who still worship Thaksin like a god, irrespective of the evidence of massive corruption by him. True, such corruption still has to be proven in court. But you can’t ignore the mountains of evidence accumulated by the various organizations and respected individuals—including the British and other governments that denied him visas and frozen his assets. And what about the refusal by him to answer any of the charges in parliament or in court? And the hardly legitimate dissolution of the House in 2006?

Doesn’t that say anything?

Does all this mean that a large section of the Thai elite is amoral, if not immoral in their approach to life? Has money become a god in Thai society such that anybody who has accumulated money by crooked or devious means is excused from condemnation and revulsion, but on the contrary admired for being smart, shrewd, and Machiavellian?

Some foreigners may be sick and tired with Thai bloggers who seem to be obsessed with Thaksin, but they don’t understand the emotions of resentment and feelings of betrayal by a man who violated their trust and schemed in various devious ways to amass wealth from public funds. Such foreigners probably never had to come to terms with such a man in their own country.

Or else these farangs too are amoral? Do they think that what Thaksin did was no big deal, dismissing him as a sort of Rockefeller or J P Getty ? (the “I would have done it too if I had the chance “ mentality)

BTW, I am not a saint, just an ordinary guy.
comment 13
expresso date : 10/06/2009 time : 00.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

It's not just education, it's more a social phenomena. I see many educated fools who do nothing except corrupting.

Anyway, getting back to what Khun Thanon's topic:

Rich people, I mean really rich people, know their avenues to manipulate.

It's easy to say: follow the money trail. But this is exactly what I would like to see.

Khun Korn, of course, is one who is qualified to follow the trail. But then most politicians have shiit in themselves that they are afraid of a 'revenge'.

So, Khun Thanong, would you please hire someone who is good in following the money trail and publish for us afterward?
comment 12
notdisappointed date : 09/06/2009 time : 23.48

K.Panya, it all depends on how fast we can educate our children from nusery school and through higher education. Every child and teenager now can be taught and brought into the light. The Ministry of Education can set up a democratic agenda/syllabus for the nation’s teachers who are all or most of them, state employees. Our politicians must lead the way with their strong fortitude and self-sacrifice; but of course that’s in the future.

You and Ian and others are right; we need the media to perform their task without bias and to remain true to their calling. They must be investigative reporters not reporters who report. They must bring the issues to the public day-in and day-out. I know it doesn’t sell and companies are hesitant to advertise having been shell-shocked and taught a lesson from “he-who-cannot-be-named” regime.

Now it’s up to you and me, and our friends, and family members, and associates to reach out to our staff and employees and teach them and nurture them in this strange animal that is democracy.
comment 11
panya date : 09/06/2009 time : 18.58

C5, C6

So how can the reality of Thai politics be changed so it is not just enjoyed as a game, with democracy being known, wanted, lived and breathed?

That is the problem. Ian is right when he says that the media should play an unbiased role in educating the public, but that is a little unrealistic as the media have too many axes to grind and far too many fingers in pies.

It does come down to education, and religion, and social behavior. Sadly, education is always cited as needing an overhaul, but by people who don't know how, and undermined by the propagation of social hierarchy which stifles individual thought and makes outcasts of those with differing opinions. Religion is held above question, though it reinforces that very hierarchy. In the end, nobody can effect change, so nobody is interested, so nobody discusses.

Investigative journalism would help. So would mixed-party political panel discussions. But could these every really take place without repercussions on their instigators?
comment 10
noonin date : 09/06/2009 time : 18.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Remember Thaksin has never claimed that he has any money abroad. But then where did he get the money to acquire the Manchester City Football Club, which he later sold, and make all kinds of investment in various countries?

Excellent point which has escaped the mob.
comment 9
wch date : 09/06/2009 time : 17.37

Ian,
The 15 leaders have 500 million of own populations and UN chief works for 6.5 billions.
Thai closed their own airport that is the sorry in any case to another guests of 500,000, mainly pleasure-seekers.
comment 8
Ian date : 09/06/2009 time : 16.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Wch, 6. You display your order of values clearly. To you 15 heads of state inconvenienced is more important than thousands of tourists inconvenienced at the airport.
Unfortunately the international press do not seem to agree with you if you compare the coverage of the two events.
comment 7
Ian date : 09/06/2009 time : 16.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, 5. Too true, democracy is not a once every 4 years event, wake up vote and then go back to sleep. Democracy is having a daily awareness of what those you voted for are doing, both as individual MPs and collectively as Government.
Awareness is needed but also understanding of the implications.
The media have to play an active unbiased role in educating the public.
comment 6
wch date : 09/06/2009 time : 16.03

Dear ND,
It is in fact Thai people that play, enjoy politics merely as a game.
Last week, I watched a boxing match between a Thai and an Indonesian.
Overpowered, the Thai 'kicked' the opponent and the match was instantly gone in two blacks.
One black is needless to say, the Thai was condemned, other black is TV screen.
Thai 'political game' is exactly like this.
beyond the rule, beyond etiguette and uncoverable shame.
Once I mentioned "In human histroy there was not a country that had driven away the good- willed foreign leaders of 15, the important state guests through the hotel backdoor.
Why does PM AV busily fly over Tinoon, Tinee ?. He will, undoubtedly with shame-full face, kowtows his head and say "heart-breaking SORRY" to the leaders who were once here with pride and gone with shame.

Now look at those who incisioned deep scar to whole nation, shamelessly, stand in street, only to shake AV dropped down onto ground, they are mad, they are aopen aotai if they could kick out PM AV to taste their planned dinner.

It is Thais who must rise up and punish them, drive away out of country.
Foreigners are just onlookers,passerbys. They have their own countries to return anytime. They speak in scale of their own countries, sometime praising unreasonabley, sometime teasing amusingly and putting endless guru-like preach and orders.
comment 5
notdisappointed date : 09/06/2009 time : 14.21

And that my (foreign) friends, is the state of play in Thai politics.

You don’t have to like it and you can rant and vent about it but you sure aren’t going to make it change. As a Thai I can’t make a change only try to talk to those in power and those close to them to think about the country more than themselves. This is the reality of Thai politics. No GE will change this fact. And even a GE would not take this deal of the table; just postpone it until a new government comes in to officially approve it.

With all of our good intentions, in all of its well-meaning forms; we all want change and want good democratic governance. But it’s not going to happen overnight. That’s why we need to be pragmatic. No, it’s not a cop-out on my part; it’s accepting reality. There is nothing on the horizon that anyone of us can see that will change in the short-term this fact of life; this reality that we more or less so detest.

When we talk about democracy we are coming at it from different perspectives. Foreigners have experienced it and taken from it its many benefits; you look at the equality, upholding of human rights, civil society, benefits and progressiveness that can be gained from it. But Thais need to know it and want it, not as a concept but as a fact of their daily life. As I said before democracy is more than just a “vote-and-forget” thing. They, we, must take ownership of it with all its myriad responsibilities and be accountable for making it a living, breathing part of the Nation.
comment 4
peacefulness date : 09/06/2009 time : 11.05
nationmultimedia.com


the "square face" still hv tons and tons , mountains and mountains of illegally gained money both in thailand and overseasssssssssss............
comment 3
peacefulness date : 09/06/2009 time : 10.52
nationmultimedia.com


the "square face" still hv tons and tons , mountains and mountains of illegally gained money both in thailand and overseasssssssssss............
comment 2
wch date : 09/06/2009 time : 10.33

Therefore if bus deal STAY ALIVE, still PJ party can enjoy huge profit. (intentional to highlight555)

For AV, Bangkok people need new bus. Therefore if the project be free from corruption and verifiable, transparent, and importantly if the procurement is beneficial to the public interest, he has no reason to object.

AV must put other people to deal in this teteering job and concentrate on economy issues. When others are in recovery, Thailand must do at par at least.
comment 1
wch date : 09/06/2009 time : 10.24

How amassed huge money in overseas, is anyone's information as of now.
One testing example must be, a communication satellite did cost at the time when Thailand bought, was 40m$ of an American brand 'H'.
Someone may check how much in US$ was paid to a machine then. BOT must have all the records. If they shredded it, the responsible officers must be punished.

As to NGV bus project, now Bangkok people are awaken and voice loudly 'It is our business'.

PJ chief Chavarat "If BMA take the project, take all including the 2 billion debt".

BMA governor " No problem if people want to".

NCCC " We will investigate how the debt was caused".

NGV bus project has two part.
First part : Procurement of bus.
Second part : its infrastructure.

This second part is more amaze-able part. Previously I wrote direct cost of transit land, depot land, gas pipeline would cost more than 2 billion dollar. However if counting hidden effect such as house complex gas supplies, land speculation, etc, it will effect more than 10 billion dollars.

Therefore if bus deal is dead, still PJ party can enjoy huge profit.

Now public sentiment is waning away from them and NESDB be involved, the senate involves, PAD is grinding shabre again, PJ chief came out saying like

" If you leave, take all the kids together !"

The main point is the attitude of Thai government that neglects the recovery for sake of national interest.
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