Thanong

Thanong Khanthong
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Saturday , April 11 , 2009

A dark plot against Abhisit and the Asean Plus Three Summit

Posted by Thanong , Reader : 4001 , 15:12:08

April 11, 2009 15:12 hours The Red Shirts protesters easily break into the venue of the Asean Plus Three Summit at Royal Cliff Hotel and Resort in Pattaya, with little resistance from the security forces. The Asean Plus Three Summit, scheduled to be officially held today in Pattaya, has been cancelled after the Red Shirt protesters, led by Arisman Pongruangrong, succeeded in breaking into the venue at Royal Cliff Resort and Hotel. Arisman is a key man of the Red Shirts and a member of the Thai Rak Thai from the outset. His Red Shirt protesters could break into the Royal Cliff, which is situated at the far pocketed end of South Pattaya, because the police and the military were standing idle. The police and the military were acting in a pak wa ta khayip way (say one thing but gesture another thing) to let the Red Shirt protesters storm the venue and prevent the Asean Plus Three Summit from taking place altogether. The damage to Thailand is incalculable. The damage to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is also irreparable. You may count the days of Abhisit Vejjajiva as prime minister now. My previous assumption that the Red Shirt protesters would fade out before Songkran Day had missed the target because the rallies could hardly last beyond the Songkran Festival when most Thais had to return home for the New Year Holiday. Then it would be difficult to regroup the Red Shirts again after Songkran. I did not expect that the Red Shirt protesters and their masterminds would dare to destroy Thailand by ambushing the Asean Summit leaders, who altogether are global economic powers. The leaders' security is of utmost important. But the Red Shirt protesters and their masterminds have dared to used the security of the foreign leaders as the bargaining chip or a ploy to achieve their political ends. Such short-sighted ploy!!! After failing with the false assassination plot against Chanchai Likhitjitha, a member of the Privy Council, the Red Shirt strategy could only move on a bigger arena by bringing the Asean Plus Three Summit into the equation. If the Red Shirt masterminds could wreak havoc the Asean Plus Three Summit, they could render Abhisit obsolete. Red Shirt protesters declare victory once they are inside the Royal Cliff. Abhisit's embryonic leadership would be called into question. He is not in charge because he could not provide security to the foreign leaders. So Abhisit has to go. That's all about it. Thai politics is childish and silly, bordering on the nihilistic absurdity. This Asean Summit Plus Three debacle could not happen without a defector. The Democrats have a rotten fish inside the party. This rotten fish is part of the Red Shirt operation run by we-all-know-who-phones-in-from-abroad. Abhisit has enjoyed a rather good start. He chaired the Asean Summit in Hua Hin. He went on cement ties with the UK by meeting Gordon Brown in London. He joined the G-20 Summit leaders in London shortly afterward to air out Asean's stand on the global financial crisis. Back to Thailand, he is now preparing to chair the Asean Plus Three Summit in Pattaya. This event was postponed from December last year and is now being postponed again. I doubt the Asean Plus Three leaders would like to return to Thailand again because they have been held hostage by the Red Shirt protesters blocking their paths. The Japanese have been most sensitive with the security of their leader. Earlier when they learned that the Thai authorities would like to organise the Asean Plus Three Summit in Phuket, the Japanese were not happy. Since Phuket is an island, it would be rather difficult to move the Japanese leadership including more than 100 press members out of Phuket in the event of an airport ambush by the Red Shirt protesters. The Japanese authorities were more comfortable with the Pattaya venue. Using Bangkok as the venue was out of the question because the Red Shirt protesters would be sealing the Government House and any major venues in the five-start hotels or convention halls. Still, hell in Pattaya broke loose. The plane carrying Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd had yet to land in Thailand when it had to be diverted back because of the cancellation of the Asean Plus Three Summit. The Red Shirts really would like the Yellow Shirts to come out for a final dual or a classic Civil War. They all want to create a bloody situation that would lead to a coup. Already, the Blue Shirts have formed in Pattaya trying in vain to block the Red Shirts and save the Asean Plus Three Summit. We don't know who they are. The Yellow Shirts are watching with anxiety. It is now clear that the police have sided with the Red Shirts. The military is divided. Abhisit has declared a State of Emergency over Pattaya and Chon Buri -- exactly a replay of the Samak government and the Somchai Government, who declared a futile State of Emergency around Bangkok and the airports respectively. Now the Red Shirts protesters are heading back to consolidate their position at the Government House. There won't be a soul of the Red Shirts there. So the State of Emergency is bound to be a joke. Rumours have it that the coalition partners might want Abhisit out soon. The candidate to replace Abhisit is Gen Prawit Wongsuwan, the interior minister. The Phumjai Thai Party under Newin Chidchob now backs Gen Prawit. We shall see how the Democrats will nagivate out of this turmoil. Can Abhisit hang on his premiership since the people around him and very close to him have already picked up their knieves? We shall see. ##################### 17.15 hours: Ummmmmmmmmmmm..It has been a perfected orchestration. Police Chief Patcharawat Wongsuwan was no where to be seen during the Red Shirt ambush of the Royal Cliff, the venue of the Asean Plus Three Summit. Neither Gen Anupong Paochinda, the army chief, could be seen. Where were they? The role of Suthep Thuagsuban, as deputy prime minister in charge of security affairs, was also highly suspicious. How was it possible that we were about to host the Asean Plus Three Summit, at which people around the world would be following closely like the G-20 Summit in London, but there was a breakdown in security measures to protect the summit leaders? Yes, the buck stops at Abhisit as prime minister. But like Somchai or Samak, his predecessors, Abhisit has no control over the police and the military. Thailand's top security officials were playing the do-nothing game or the pak wa ta khayip game to support the Red Shirts . Abhisit has been caught in the same movie script with Samak and Somchai. Only the dates and the venues have been changed. For Samak, it was the Government House against the Yellow Shirts. For Somchai, it was the Suvarnabhumi Airport against the Yellow Shirts. For Abhisit, it was the Asean Plus Three Summit in Pattaya against the Red Shirts. All the while, the police and the military have been playing the musical chairs behind the scenes. ############################ Here are my crystal ball predictions: 1. The Democrats will break apart after this episode. 2. Tonight there should not be any big violent as feared because the Red Shirts have succeeded in torpedoing the Pattaya Summit. 3. There might be military reshuffle within this month. 4. It will be Thailand's hottest Songkran ever. 5. Abhisit's leadership is hanging by the thread. Democrats are being isolated. 6. Mr Phone-In has further narrowed the base of his international support from this event. #############################################

April 11, 2009

15:12 hours

The Red Shirts protesters easily break into the venue of the Asean Plus Three Summit at Royal Cliff Hotel and Resort in Pattaya, with little resistance from the security forces.

The Asean Plus Three Summit, scheduled to be officially held today in Pattaya, has been cancelled after the Red Shirt protesters, led by Arisman Pongruangrong, succeeded in breaking into the venue at Royal Cliff Resort and Hotel. Arisman is a key man of the Red Shirts and a member of the Thai Rak Thai from the outset.

His Red Shirt protesters could break into the Royal Cliff, which is situated at the far pocketed end of South Pattaya, because the police and the military were standing idle. The police and the military were acting in a pak wa ta khayip way (say one thing but gesture another thing) to let the Red Shirt protesters storm the venue and prevent the Asean Plus Three Summit from taking place altogether.

The damage to Thailand is incalculable. The damage to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is also irreparable.

You may count the days of Abhisit Vejjajiva as prime minister now.

My previous assumption that the Red Shirt protesters would fade out before Songkran Day had missed the target because the rallies could hardly last beyond the Songkran Festival when most Thais had to return home for the New Year Holiday. Then it would be difficult to regroup the Red Shirts again after Songkran.

I did not expect that the Red Shirt protesters and their masterminds would dare to destroy Thailand by ambushing the Asean Summit leaders, who altogether are global economic powers. The leaders' security is of utmost important. But the Red Shirt protesters and their masterminds have dared to used the security of the foreign leaders as the bargaining chip or a ploy to achieve their political ends. Such short-sighted ploy!!!

After failing with the false assassination plot against Chanchai Likhitjitha, a member of the Privy Council, the Red Shirt strategy could only move on a bigger arena by bringing the Asean Plus Three Summit into the equation. If the Red Shirt masterminds could wreak havoc the Asean Plus Three Summit, they could render Abhisit obsolete.

Red Shirt protesters declare victory once they are inside the Royal Cliff.

Abhisit's embryonic leadership would be called into question. He is not in charge because he could not provide security to the foreign leaders. So Abhisit has to go.

That's all about it. Thai politics is childish and silly, bordering on the nihilistic absurdity.

This Asean Summit Plus Three debacle could not happen without a defector. The Democrats have a rotten fish inside the party. This rotten fish is part of the Red Shirt operation run by we-all-know-who-phones-in-from-abroad.

Abhisit has enjoyed a rather good start. He chaired the Asean Summit in Hua Hin. He went on cement ties with the UK by meeting Gordon Brown in London. He joined the G-20 Summit leaders in London shortly afterward to air out Asean's stand on the global financial crisis. Back to Thailand, he is now preparing to chair the Asean Plus Three Summit in Pattaya. This event was postponed from December last year and is now being postponed again.

I doubt the Asean Plus Three leaders would like to return to Thailand again because they have been held hostage by the Red Shirt protesters blocking their paths. The Japanese have been most sensitive with the security of their leader. Earlier when they learned that the Thai authorities would like to organise the Asean Plus Three Summit in Phuket, the Japanese were not happy. Since Phuket is an island, it would be rather difficult to move the Japanese leadership including more than 100 press members out of Phuket in the event of an airport ambush by the Red Shirt protesters.

The Japanese authorities were more comfortable with the Pattaya venue. Using Bangkok as the venue was out of the question because the Red Shirt protesters would be sealing the Government House and any major venues in the five-start hotels or convention halls.

Still, hell in Pattaya broke loose. The plane carrying Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd had yet to land in Thailand when it had to be diverted back because of the cancellation of the Asean Plus Three Summit.

The Red Shirts really would like the Yellow Shirts to come out for a final dual or a classic Civil War. They all want to create a bloody situation that would lead to a coup.

Already, the Blue Shirts have formed in Pattaya trying in vain to block the Red Shirts and save the Asean Plus Three Summit. We don't know who they are. The Yellow Shirts are watching with anxiety.

It is now clear that the police have sided with the Red Shirts. The military is divided.

Abhisit has declared a State of Emergency over Pattaya and Chon Buri -- exactly a replay of the Samak government and the Somchai Government, who declared a futile State of Emergency around Bangkok and the airports respectively.

Now the Red Shirts protesters are heading back to consolidate their position at the Government House. There won't be a soul of the Red Shirts there. So the State of Emergency is bound to be a joke.

Rumours have it that the coalition partners might want Abhisit out soon. The candidate to replace Abhisit is Gen Prawit Wongsuwan, the interior minister. The Phumjai Thai Party under Newin Chidchob now backs Gen Prawit.

We shall see how the Democrats will nagivate out of this turmoil. Can Abhisit hang on his premiership since the people around him and very close to him have already picked up their knieves?

We shall see.

#####################

17.15 hours:

Ummmmmmmmmmmm..It has been a perfected orchestration. Police Chief Patcharawat Wongsuwan was no where to be seen during the Red Shirt ambush of the Royal Cliff, the venue of the Asean Plus Three Summit. Neither Gen Anupong Paochinda, the army chief, could be seen. Where were they?

The role of Suthep Thuagsuban, as deputy prime minister in charge of security affairs, was also highly suspicious.

How was it possible that we were about to host the Asean Plus Three Summit, at which people around the world would be following closely like the G-20 Summit in London, but there was a breakdown in security measures to protect the summit leaders?

Yes, the buck stops at Abhisit as prime minister. But like Somchai or Samak, his predecessors, Abhisit has no control over the police and the military. Thailand's top security officials were playing the do-nothing game or the pak wa ta khayip game to support the Red Shirts .

Abhisit has been caught in the same movie script with Samak and Somchai. Only the dates and the venues have been changed. For Samak, it was the Government House against the Yellow Shirts. For Somchai, it was the Suvarnabhumi Airport against the Yellow Shirts. For Abhisit, it was the Asean Plus Three Summit in Pattaya against the Red Shirts.

All the while, the police and the military have been playing the musical chairs behind the scenes.

############################

Here are my crystal ball predictions:

1. The Democrats will break apart after this episode.

2. Tonight there should not be any big violent as feared because the Red Shirts have succeeded in torpedoing the Pattaya Summit.

3. There might be military reshuffle within this month.

4. It will be Thailand's hottest Songkran ever.

5. Abhisit's leadership is hanging by the thread. Democrats are being isolated.

6. Mr Phone-In has further narrowed the base of his international support from this event.

#############################################

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comment 140
peacefulness date : 15/04/2009 time : 08.39
nationmultimedia.com

watch the BIG LIAR of the century talks to aljazeera in dubai

http://omgro.com/youtube-top-news/15-04-2009/former-thai-pm-sees-political-crisis-from-dubai/

pics, fugitive criminal thaksin shinnawat

comment 139
Ian date : 15/04/2009 time : 08.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

maverick, 135, I said Thais because we are talking about Thailand, but to a greater or lesser extent it applies everywhere.

comment 138
peacefulness date : 14/04/2009 time : 23.50
nationmultimedia.com

where are my supporters???????

where are those idiots ????????

not even one single soul to be seen around??????

come back ,come back,...... i still hv tons and tons of money as thrown out bones and bread crums to all of you.................

where are my "BAEs" errand boy, lackeys, servants, slaves????????

where is veera/natawut/jakrapob/dr weng my dear grass roots?????????????

i am so alone , i could cry!!!!!!

comment 137
peacefulness date : 14/04/2009 time : 20.36
Nationmultimedia.com

arrest warrant issued by the criminal court for flwg persons on 14apr2009

from matichon newspaper

Qte
1.พ.ต.ท.ทักษิณ ชินวัตร pol lt col thaksin shinnawat

2.นายจตุพร พรหมพันธ์ jatuporn prompan
3.นายวีระ มุสิกพงษ์ veera musikapong
4.นายณัฐวุฒิ ใสยเกื้อ natawut saikua
5.นายจักรภพ เพ็ญแข jakrapob penkhae
6.นายอดิศร เพียงเกษ adisorn peangkate
7.นพ.เหวง โตจิราการ dr weng tojirakarn
8.นายสิรวิชญ์ พิมพ์กลาง siravitchya pimklang
9.นายพีระ พิมพ์กลาง peera pimklang
10.นายณรงค์ศักดิ์ มณี narongsak inthanang
11.ณัฐพงศ์ อินทะนาง natapong inthanang
12.นายชินวัตร หาบุญพาด chinawat harboonpard
13.ชายไทยไม่ทราบชื่อ (ปรากฏตามภาพถ่าย)unknow thai citizen (only from photo )

unqte

comment 136
maverick263 date : 14/04/2009 time : 20.16

@ lonewolf, c.123:

yes, at least it starts... cleanup of that mess. lawyers are laid off, bankers are laid off: the whole structure that was & is @ center _starts_ to crumble.

if u really want a turnaround... funny thing, it applies to contemporary thailand, as well as worldwide institutions of regulatory power... u simply can't work w same personal anymore.

it's their very mind, efforts & ambitions that cultivated & nourished that very system.

comment 135
maverick263 date : 14/04/2009 time : 19.56

@ Ian, c.129:

"Why is it so many Thais can only see in black and white, ..."

what if i'd be allowed to change "Thais" to "human beings" & then it'd read...

"Why is it so many human beings can only see in black and white, people are either good or evil, events are either good or bad. Is it because it is easier to think this way, to see shades of grey requires logic and a deeper level of thought?"

i guess it's that it, mind, had been trained this ways since millenia. u look "out" & there's "differentiation" --- to some of it, u feel attracted, to others u feel friction, hate, disgust.

as u imply... indeed it needs a "deeper level" of thought. in meditation tradition it's called "sati". in western terms, i'd guess it'd be called "higher levels of abstraction".

in any case: one needs to let go of the desire for the apparent.

well, ur postings show; don't they ,)

comment 134
Ian date : 14/04/2009 time : 12.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Peacefulness, please return to the sewers where you language clearly shows you originated. If I was a supporter of Abhasit I would want to distance myself as far as possible from you. The fact that none do so clearly shows their character.

comment 133
peacefulness date : 14/04/2009 time : 11.07

THE REDSHIRTS ARE NOW PREPARING TO DISPERSE AND GO HOME

comment 132
FelixQui date : 14/04/2009 time : 10.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Jaratpan and peacefulness,
Do you think Chamlong is not liar and manipulator?
He is even more dictatorial and oppressive than Taksin, and that's no mean feat.

comment 131
peacefulness date : 14/04/2009 time : 09.49
nationmultimedia.com

the big LIAR of the century thaksin shinnawattra, the most corrupt , deposed, ousted, fugitive criminal fomer pm. talks to bbc

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/far_east/7996781.stm

comment 130
peacefulness date : 14/04/2009 time : 09.44
nationmultimedia.com

Ian-- a mother fucker like you, just shut up and mind ur own business.

comment 129
Ian date : 14/04/2009 time : 08.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Why is it so many Thais can only see in black and white, people are either good or evil, events are either good or bad. Is it because it is easier to think this way, to see shades of grey requires logic and a deeper level of thought?

comment 128
Jaratpan date : 14/04/2009 time : 08.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Jaratpan

Thaksin lies. Only the fool believe him.

In Bangkok, red shirts are fighting and killed civilians in Bangkok. They park gas trucks (company owned by Thaksin's brother in law) in front of residential buildings, hospitals and shopping malls.

The violent red shirts are terrorists - paid by Thaksin.
Thaksin never care for people lives - anything just to get his money back.

comment 127
FelixQui date : 13/04/2009 time : 21.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Kennedy,
Thank you for the tip. Naturally, we all want to make a difference for the better. But I should warn you that if you dive into the big pond, you will not get far saying that facts don't matter in forming beliefs. Nor will that sort of comment do your cause any good, quite the contrary.

comment 126
Kennedy date : 13/04/2009 time : 20.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Kennedy

Please help all bloggers to let the world listen…
You can make a difference, use the word you are so good at, use them to tell your story it is time to help The Thai government image, Taksin Terrorist are using all his spin-doctor’s now to make story about the military kill people, that Thai police shot people down on the streets..
So all bloggers in here, help to write your words so also People around the world get your words and not only words from a Terrorist that buy time on CNN or other TV stations.
This is time to help your country to give them your eyes on the terrorist Taksin.
So go to al blog sites, for the big newspaper and write what you do in the Nations, there is not many readers here that is novice about Taksin Terror, but there is in BBC, CNN, ZDF and all other big TV or newspapers.. Use your time to link to your post in Nations or write to their blogs site..
You can make a difference by doing this now..

Just one link.....
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/13/thailand.protests/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

comment 125
Alien date : 12/04/2009 time : 22.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Correction: buy, not but

comment 124
Alien date : 12/04/2009 time : 22.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Jim Cramer was telling people to but stock in AIG THE DAY BEFORE THEY WERE TAKEN OVER BY THE GOVERNMENT!!!

comment 123
lonewolf date : 12/04/2009 time : 22.03

Jim Cramer? If this was 1809 he would be selling snake-oil medicine on the city street corner. Not sure why you would even consider his comments germane to our discussion. All tv economic commentators are entertainers and not serious students of economics.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, the economic crises has been good for wall street as it has focused attention on many of the excesses and the innefficiencies of the system. Most people in the US are welcoming regulatory changes which will be coming as we clean up the mess....but the mess will be cleaned up as we are beginning to see.

comment 122
FelixQui date : 12/04/2009 time : 21.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

lonewolf, re c.120,
That sounds like an inconvenient truth that shouldn't be allowed to get in the way of a cherished belief.

comment 121
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 21.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Lonewolf and Felxi: REad this thoughtful column from new York Times. This echoes my writing all along.

Op-Ed Columnist
Awake and Sing!
Published: April 11, 2009

“I am pronouncing the depression over!” declared CNBC’s irrepressible Jim Cramer on April 2. The next day the unemployment rate, already at the highest level in 25 years, jumped yet again, but Cramer wasn’t thinking about the 663,000 jobs that disappeared in March. He was thinking about the market. Mad money. Fast money. Big money. The Dow, after all, has rallied in the weeks since Timothy Geithner announced his bank bailout 2.0. Par-tay! On Wednesday, Cramer rang the opening bell at the New York Stock Exchange, in celebration of the 1,000th broadcast of his nightly stock-tip jamboree.

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Barry Blitt

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Post a Comment »Read All Comments (149) »Given Cramer’s track record on those tips, there’s no reason to believe he’s right this time. But for the sake of argument, let’s say he is. (And let’s hope he is.) The question then arises: What, if anything, have we learned from this decade’s man-made economic disaster? It wasn’t just trillions of dollars of wealth that went poof in the bubble. Certain American values also crumbled and vanished. Making quick killings by reckless gambling in the markets — rather than by investing long-term in new products, innovations, technologies or services that might grow and benefit America and the world — became the holy grail in the upper echelons of finance.

This was not an exact replay of the preceding dot-com bubble. As a veteran of the tech gold rush recently observed to me, in Silicon Valley “the money comes later” and “the thing you make comes first, however whimsical, silly, microscopic, recondite it may be.” On Wall Street over the past decade, the money usually came first, last and in between. There was no “thing” being made at all unless you count the slicing and dicing of debt into financial “products,” the incomprehensible derivatives that helped bring down the economy, costing some five million Americans their jobs (so far) and countless more their 401(k)’s.

On the same Friday that the Labor Department reported the latest jobless numbers, the White House released (in the evening, after the network news) some other telling figures on the financial disclosure forms of its top officials. From those we learned more about how much the bubble’s culture permeated this administration.

We discovered, for instance, that Lawrence Summers, the president’s chief economic adviser, made $5.2 million in 2008 from a hedge fund, D. E. Shaw, for a one-day-a-week job. He also earned $2.7 million in speaking fees from the likes of Citigroup and Goldman Sachs. Those institutions are not merely the beneficiaries of taxpayers’ bailouts since the crash. They also benefited during the boom from government favors: the Wall Street deregulation that both Summers and Robert Rubin, his mentor and predecessor as Treasury secretary, championed in the Clinton administration. This dynamic duo’s innovative gift to their country was banks “too big to fail.”

Some spoilsports raise the conflict-of-interest question about Summers: Can he be a fair broker of the bailout when he so recently received lavish compensation from some of its present and, no doubt, future players? This question can be answered only when every transaction in the new “public-private investment plan” to buy the banks’ toxic assets is made transparent. We need verification that this deal is not, as the economist Joseph Stiglitz has warned, a Rube Goldberg contraption contrived to facilitate “huge transfers of wealth to the financial markets” from taxpayers.

But perhaps I’ve become numb to the perennial and bipartisan revolving-door incestuousness of Washington and Wall Street. I was less shocked by the White House’s disclosure of Summers’s recent paydays than by a bit of reporting that appeared deep down in the Times follow-up article on that initial news. The reporter Louise Story wrote that Summers had done consulting work for another hedge fund, Taconic Capital Advisors, from 2004 to 2006, while still president of Harvard.

That the highly paid leader of arguably America’s most esteemed educational institution (disclosure: I went there) would simultaneously freelance as a hedge-fund guy might stand as a symbol for the values of our time. At the start of his stormy and short-lived presidency, Summers picked a fight with Cornel West for allegedly neglecting his professorial duties by taking on such extracurricular tasks as cutting a spoken-word CD. Yet Summers saw no conflict with moonlighting in the money racket while running the entire university. The students didn’t even get a CD for his efforts — and Harvard’s deflated endowment, now in a daunting liquidity crisis, didn’t exactly benefit either.

Summers’s dual portfolio in Cambridge has already led to one potential intermingling of private business and public policy in his new White House post. He tried — and, mercifully, failed — to install the co-founder of Taconic in the job of running the TARP bailouts. But again, Summers’s potential conflicts of interest seem less telling than the conflict of values that his Harvard double-résumé exemplifies.

In the bubble decade, making money as an end in itself boomed as a calling among students at elite universities like Harvard, siphoning off gifted undergraduates who might otherwise have been scientists, teachers, doctors, entrepreneurs, artists or inventors. The Harvard Crimson reported that in the class of 2007, 58 percent of the men and 43 percent of the women entering the work force took jobs in the finance and consulting industries. The figures were similar everywhere, from Duke to the University of Pennsylvania. Dan Rather, on his HDNet television program in December, reported that at Penn this was even true of “over half the students who graduated with engineering degrees — not a field commonly associated with Wall Street.”

Clearly the last person to serve as an inspiring role model for alternative values would have been Summers. But in her first baccalaureate address last June, his successor as Harvard president, Drew Gilpin Faust, stepped into that moral vacuum, zeroing in on the huge number of students heading into finance, consulting and investment banking. “Find work you love,” she implored the class of 2008. The “most remunerative” job choice “may not be the most meaningful and the most satisfying.”

This same note was hit a month earlier by the commencement speaker at Wesleyan University, Barack Obama. “The big house and the nice suits and all the other things that our money culture says you should buy,” he said, amount to “a poverty of ambition.” He wasn’t speaking idly. As America knows, Obama turned down the lucrative career path guaranteed to the first African-American president of The Harvard Law Review to pursue the missions of service and teaching instead. The potential rewards for our country, now that that early choice has led him into the White House, are enormous.

But it’s hardly a given that the entrenched money culture has evaporated along with the paper profits it generated. One skeptic is Howard Gardner, the Harvard education professor who has created seminars at several elite colleges to counsel students in the notion of pursuing meaningful, ethical and effective work — “Good Work,” as he has titled it. He believes that many students may still be operating on the assumption that the world of finance will just pick up where it left off in a few years. “But we’re not going to be back there,” Gardner told me last week, “and we shouldn’t be back there.”

He notes that while the New Deal was built from ideas developed in the Progressive Era and that the Reagan counterrevolution was the culmination of the conservative movement of the 1950s and ’60s, there is as yet “no counternarrative to replace ‘money is king.’ ” The post-crash influx of graduates into Teach for America, while laudable, may be transitory unless there’s the political vision and leadership to make altruistic values stick after our crisis has passed. “It’s completely up in the air what’s going to happen,” Gardner said.

No one is better placed or more philosophically suited than Obama to construct the new counternarrative as we go forward in our new New Deal. But many masters of the old universe, including quite possibly his chief economic adviser, can’t recognize that the world has changed or should change. Even at the cratered Citigroup, a technical analyst was moved to write a report last month urging his peers to stop living in “denial” and recognize that we are witnessing the end of “25 to 30 years worth of excess.” The “new normal” in lifestyle, wealth creation and profitability of companies, he wrote, “may be a shadow of the past.”

There was a poignant quality to this Citi report, which cited as its mantra the R.E.M. song “It’s the End of the World as We Know It (and I Feel Fine).” Its tone somehow reminded me of the stirring speech written by the American playwright Clifford Odets in his classic drama of the Great Depression, “Awake and Sing!” (1935). “Boychick, wake up!” the grandfather Jacob tells his grandson, Ralph, as the battered Berger family disintegrates in the Bronx. “Be something! Make your life something good ... Go out and fight so life shouldn’t be printed on dollar bills.”

When Lawrence Summers was president of Harvard, he famously delighted students by signing his autograph on dollar bills that already bore his signature from his Treasury secretary days. How we leave that bankrupt culture behind and get to “something good” will be as much a factor in our recovery from this Depression as the fate of the unemployment rate and the Dow.

comment 120
lonewolf date : 12/04/2009 time : 21.33

This past week Wells Fargo bank announced a $3 billion profit for the past quarter. Hmmm I am not a nobel prize winner in economics but it would appear that such a profit would be impossible if capitalism was no longer around.

comment 119
FelixQui date : 12/04/2009 time : 19.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Thanong,
I'm happy to give the remainder of the year for your economic prophecies to be fulfilled.

In the meantime, I hope you can start to assess the political reality more accurately than you do the economic.

comment 118
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 19.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Here's a piece on sufficiency economics written by my professor Medhi Krongkaew, who taught me economics 101 at Thammsat.

The philosophy behind the sufficiency economy

By Medhi Krongkaew
Thailand’s eminent economic scholar and a commissioner of the National Counter Corruption Commission.

The economic crisis of 1997 affected everyone in Thailand, even His Majesty the King. Seeing many of his subjects suffering, he advised the Thai people to change their economic philosophy in order to cope with present economic adversity and withstand future economic insecurity.

His Majesty's words have become known as the philosophy behind the sufficiency economy and have been used as the guiding principles in the drafting of the current Ninth National Economic and Social Development Plan.

The philosophy is summed up in the following paragraph: sufficiency economy is a philosophy that guides the livelihood and behaviour of people at all levels, from the family to the community to the country, on matters concerning national development and administration. It calls for a "middle way" to be observed, especially in pursuing economic development in keeping with the world of globalisation. Sufficiency means moderation and reasonableness, including the need to build a reasonable immune system against shocks from the outside or from the inside. Intelligence, attentiveness, and extreme care should be used to ensure that all plans and every step of their implementation are based on knowledge. At the same time we must build up the spiritual foundation of all people in the nation, especially state officials, scholars, and business people at all levels, so they are conscious of moral integrity and honesty and they strive for the appropriate wisdom to live life with forbearance, diligence, self-awareness, intelligence, and attentiveness. In this way we can hope to maintain balance and be ready to cope with rapid physical, social, environmental, and cultural changes from the outside world.

This philosophical statement has lent itself to interpretation by diverse groups of people. First, we can dismiss outright the extreme interpretation that sufficiency economy means complete self-reliance, or autarky. In an autarkic system, a country or unit thereof relies upon itself and its people to produce all of its needs with no dependence on others. It may do this voluntarily (cutting off contact with the outside world) or by necessity (because it is incapable of generating those contacts). But His Majesty the King explicitly rejected this interpretation: "This self- sufficiency does not mean that every family must grow food for themselves, to make clothes for themselves; that is too much. But in a village or sub-district there should be a reasonable amount of sufficiency. If they grow or produce something more than they need they can sell them. But they do not need to sell them very far; they can sell them in nearby places without having to pay high transport costs."

Some people have attempted to link this economic philosophy with the so-called "Gandhian Economy". Along the lines proposed by Mahatma Gandhi, this is an economy based on family-level or village-level small-scale enterprises and traditional methods. It may have been appropriate to India in the mid-twentieth century, when the people were poor and technology was limited. But in the present, it may be too restrictive to expect families to do everything by themselves using simple tools and machinery, such as traditional spinning wheels to make cloth. Perhaps the basic idea of Gandhian simplicity - a life less encumbered by modern needs and modern technology - could make people happier. But in the very open world of today, self- sufficiency a la Gandhi is too extreme.

We also hear people relating the sufficiency economy to the knowledge and applicability of Buddhism. In Buddhism, life, especially spiritual life, is enhanced by cutting out excessive wants and greed. True happiness may be attained when a person is fully satisfied with what he or she has and is at peace with the self. To strive to consume more leads to unhappiness if (or when) consumption is not satisfied or falls short of expectations. A sufficiency economy in this context would be an economy fundamentally conditioned by basic need, not greed, and restrained by a conscious effort to cut consumption. This is probably acceptable insofar as it does not reject gains in welfare and well-being due to greater consumption.

His Majesty has talked about the sufficiency idea since 1974. In his customary birthday speech of that year, he wished everyone in Thailand "sufficient to live and to eat" (por yoo por kin). This was indeed a precursor to the sufficiency economy. His Majesty also said: "The development of a country must be by steps. It must start with basic sufficiency in food and adequate living, using techniques and instruments that are economical but technically sound. When this foundation is secured, then higher economic status and progress can be established." (See Apichai Puntasen, "The King's Sufficiency Economy and Its Interpretation by Economists".)

This is very clear: it shows that His Majesty did not deny economic progress and globalisation, as some people have interpreted. Indeed the word globalisation is used in the statement on sufficiency economy that His Majesty has endorsed. The notion that sufficiency economy is anti-globalisation should be put to rest forever.

Still, there are attempts by various segments of the Thai population to dissociate this new economy from the realm of mainstream economics that stresses economic rationality and efficiency in resource allocation. It is obvious that His Majesty's sufficiency economy is not the type found in a mainstream economics textbook, but it would be inaccurate to interpret it as the antithesis of mainstream economics in every respect. On the contrary, I think we can understand sufficiency economy within the framework of economic rationality and efficiency in choices. The difference is not in type, but in degree or magnitude of economic behaviour. His Majesty used the phrase "middle path" or "middle way" to describe the pattern of life every Thai should lead - a life dictated by moderation, reasonableness and the ability to withstand shock. Can we find something in mainstream economics that captures the spirit of this philosophy?

I propose to use my own understanding of economic optimisation. It is possible to see the sufficiency economy as consisting of two frameworks. One is the inevitability of facing the globalised world in which economic efficiency and competition are the rules of the game; the other is the need for economic security and the capacity to protect oneself from external shock and instability. Thinking within the first framework - the basic tenet of mainstream economics - we must realise the opportunity costs involved in every decision we make. We gain from specialisation and division of labour because the opportunity costs of doing everything by ourselves is much higher. But it would be foolish to pursue all-out specialisation without basic security, especially in food, shelter and clothing. This is where the framework of the new sufficiency economy comes in. This concerns the basic capacity of the people of a country to look after themselves. The optimisation principle applies when we seek to answer the question: how much of our time and energy should be devoted to the first and second frameworks, respectively? In other words, how much resources should be allocated to producing for trade based on the comparative advantage principle, and how much for basic security? The best mix between the two allocations would represent the optimal state of affairs, both in mainstream and sufficiency economics.

comment 117
DKO date : 12/04/2009 time : 18.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/DKO

Thanong C112

First I must say I am NO economic expert - just interested and try to follow what people and Bloomberg report.

Much of what you say seems very valid but I also note Gold has fallen to just below 900 from 10,000 points in the last couple of weeks. The experts say many investors have their money in the materials you mention and much cash earning little or no interest.

They will not take risks but are also itching to reinvest where they see relatively safe places.

Despite the WFC there are still companies AND banks doing very well.

My limited understanding is that many banks are hoarding and the stronger ones are quite cash rich but will not risk lending. My other understanding is that the measure that banks in the US (and other places) to values their toxic assets is to base them on today's values and their foreclosed properties.

It is being suggested this is too strict because stronger banks will be able to hold on for better times and are deliberately not placing properties on the market now because the values are very low and are waiting for an increase. With interest rates so low this is not a bad middle/long term strategy I feel for stronger banks.

Additionally 100% failure of ALL high risk assets is not the real World. Many will fail, but others will not for some time or never.

What I am saying is the banking crisis is dire and will take a long time (many years maybe) to improve to previous acceptable levels, but it may well not be as dire as Soros and some suggest.

Don't forget some like Soros make their money on doom and gloom and talking down the markets.

Now who to believe is the 64 million dollar question.

I agree with you capitalism will take MANY years to recover as will most leading World economies but I feel sure it and they will. I cannot see capitalist countries adopting sufficiency economies unless in dire straits and they would seek to cease and go back to capitalism as soon as they could.

I base this view on man's greed and desire to better themselves and become wealthier and more secure. Communism does not work, Sufficiency Economics would not achieve that. Apart from stealing and corruption what could achieve that other than capitalism in SOME form.

As I said elsewhere Leopards do not change their spots.

Maybe you and Felix can suggest an Economic system, other than capitalism, that will satisfy man's ambitions, and desire for more than they have.

comment 116
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 18.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Felix:
What do you mean global capitalism will still around? Right now as Soros has said, US banks are basically insolvent. US banks are now under government support system. The free market is not functioning now. You have already lost the bet without having to wait until next year. You still don't get it.

comment 115
FelixQui date : 12/04/2009 time : 17.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

DKO, re c.111,
Thanong and I have a bet on as to whether global capitalism will still be around on March 11 next year or whether it will have been replaced by sufficiency economics.
I also think that the reports of capitalism's imminent demise and the coming to pass of the era of sufficiency economics have been premature and exaggerated.

But as to the more pressing matter, I agree with the Nation's Tulsathit Taptim that "no pundit dares predicting the immediate result, let alone a long-term one." ( at http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/04/12/headlines/headlines_30100345.php ), although I have ventured a tentative if not A, then B prediction for the long term judgement of history on Thaong's latest post "Tanks are rolling out into the Bangkok streets" at http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong/2009/04/12/entry-1 (see c.5).

comment 114
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 17.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Thank you Sven for your remark. We shall see what's going to happen next as governments deny that there is a big problem out there.

comment 113
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 17.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

If I don't pronounce capitalism as being dead, people would still hope that next year or after we'll be back on track. So they naturally urge the government to come up with stimulus measures.

My assumption is that market economies are collapsing. So we need to save ourselves, using stimulus measures with utmost caution. Government fiscal position is most important going forward because investors are fleeing and are losing money in the wake of an era of hyperinflation.

I do write with a context. This is not normal time.
If you think that this is normal time, then you'll find my writing bizarre.

comment 112
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 16.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

DKO:
Right now investors or central banks are looking at ways to protect their wealth. They no longer trust equities or money paper. Many are going for gold, silver or other hard assets. So they are assuming defensive mode in their investment stratgegy.

Likewise, Abhisit government or Thailand must formulate defensive strategy to weather the country out of the global depression. So I recommend sufficiency economics while we may see depression going on for the next 10 years or more. In this regard, capitalism is literally dead.

I don't like the word "right". I prefer the word "duty". We now always claim our rights without doing our duty. The nation needs its citizen to perform duties rather than to claim for their rights. This country is not dictatorial. So let's focus on duty rather than rights. You know what I mean now.

comment 111
DKO date : 12/04/2009 time : 16.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/DKO

Thanong (C106).

Thanks for your reply.

I was not making a comment on the workings of the sufficiency economy or really about capitalism but more about your attack on others Humans Rights and Democracy as being Fake.

With many countries of the World less than impressed with Thailand on those two at present (be it NOWHERE NEAR the worst) your comment was unfair and essentially distorted beyond all reason. Sure you can point fingers at individual failures (and many of them) and a few Countries but to suggest a minority wrongs make other Bloggers countries Human Rights and Democracy FAKE is ludicrous (except one or two).

You refer to Sufficiency Economics and keep inferring Capitalism is dead.

I believe you are very wrong in your belief. If you said Capitalism has failed in its current form, and will be reborn as a different form of Capitalism then I would agree, as would I that it will be a many years process.

Everything has to eventually either EVOLVE or perish.

I do not think there is a "Cat in Hell's" chance capitalism is dead or will die.

That does not mean you Sufficiency Economy cannot occur in Thailand, but personally I think Thailand will aspire to become wealthier and financially successful via capitalist methods aided and abetted with capitalist money rather than by Sufficiency economics. JMHO

.

George Soros. Although brilliant, is despised by many. He is perfectly happy to make money by worrying people to believe certain things and then when they act upon them. He in the meantime plays the market and earns a fortune.

He said he is enjoying the current crisis and it is a good time for him. Misery for Billions around the World Including Thailand but hooray Soros is OK.

He has been reported as the billionaire investor - who “broke the Bank of England” got his “celebrity status” by betting against the British pound…and now he’s looking to do the same thing by shorting the British pound again".

I admit I am a Brit but Brit or not this man is a scum bag who prays and helps cause misery. He is anticipated to target the US $ if he can help orchestrate.

I would hope you would find a better human being to quote. I wouldn't put it past this man "shorting" his own family mother if he thought there was a profit in it for him

comment 110
sven date : 12/04/2009 time : 16.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/sven

It was maverick who asked me for the state of well being in Western Europe, but maybe this is of interest for K.Thanong and the debate on sufficiency economics, too.

We live on a high level, eating meat seven days a week! Although the state's social security nets were somewhat weakened by capitalist ideology beginning in the eighties, still everyone gets food, shelter, clothing, and necessities of daily life such as TV sets

from state organisations.

There is rumour by Thai sources (Thanong et al.

) that highly industrialised countries might not be able to do sufficiency economics, living without foreign or capitalist help. This has proven untrue, more than once, in the 20th century.

During the Great Depression, and even worse at the end of WW II, industry broke down, in some countries completely. Guess what happened ? People went into the fields, worked for farmers, and the like. Almost all survived. And this was in total chaos, failure of states, with extremely fast and harsh transition from highly industrialised to completely devastated, millions homeless and on the flight, cold European winters without heating and nothing growing on the fields.

The countries soils were able to sustain 300+ million Europeans, with almost no oil for fertiliser and agricultural machines, and no/worthless money. Eating very little meat, but so what?

This was just 60 years ago, and Europe underwent only small population growth since.

So, we already weathered catastrophies worse than a great depression, we have experience with it, we don't like depressions, but we will survive.

comment 109
Peace_Out date : 12/04/2009 time : 16.18

C 101 Ian
I agree the whole system is fundementaly and seriousely flawed.
The flaws are systemic, endemic, and infested.

comment 108
DKO date : 12/04/2009 time : 16.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/DKO

Ian (C98),

Yes a good comment by Joe BUT Joe is mistaken and so are you on Thaksin.

The Reds ARE much too much about Thaksin.

I know you are biased for the Red Shirt ideals (so am I except I feel a GE now would not be beneficial to Thailand as we need a government in place at present with the WFC still rampant, not a few months of spiteful and negative of GE campaigning, followed by red and yellow cards, accusations and counter accusations.

Additionally, I feel Thaksin should not be an issue, figurehead or involved.

Surely you are not so blind as not see how MUCH Thaksin IS the centre piece of MOST Red Shirt activity at present. Constant calls for action and not to forget him, video links and phone ins.

Only a few hours after the cancellation of the ASEAN summit he is on the phone (video link blocked) AGAIN saying to the 15,000 Red Shirt rally (all cheering him of course).

reported in BKP"
Fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra called by telephone to around 15,000 supporters still camped out at Government House on Saturday night.

"I thank the Red Shirts in Pattaya who showed strength," he told the crowd.

"In the next few days we will see real change. Red Shirts in Bangkok and elsewhere must now act immediately so that we can change our country."

SAYS AND PROVES IT ALL IN MY OPINION!

If you still don't think its much about Thaksin maybe somebody should tell him and the Red Shirts that because they are giving most Thais and certainly all the world press that impression.

Nearly all news channels say almost the same ( I watch Asia News Channel, BBC World, CNN, FOX Aljezeraha (English language).

"...the UDD know as the Red shirt supporters of former PM Thaksin Shinawatra who is currently in self imposed exile...."

As in many battles the generals are behind the scenes in safety, whilst directing their troops.

If nothing else, Mr.T is inciting trouble with his calls for a peoples revolution. Sure I know he will say he means "peaceful" (to protect his back).

Here is a genuine question. When does incite to riot and intent to orchestrate overthrow of a legal (if not elected) Government count as Treason?

I accept all the morals arguments about the legitimacy of the Dem Government t but in Thai Constitutional LAW (voted in by the population) it was formed legally (like it or not). Therefore plotting its overthrow should it not be treason? I have the same view in respect of the PAD's illegal methods to overthrow the PPP Government.

If not, why not?

comment 107
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 16.07
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Max: I write from a Thai context, against the potential breakdown of global capitalism. You write from the BP context. We can't mix water and oil.

comment 106
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 15.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

DKO:
You don't follow my writing closely enough. I write sufficiency economics in the context of the collapse of global capitalism or the impending depression economics, which could ravaging this planet over the next 10 years. We are not living in normal time.
That is the broad context. If you read George Soros's comment in my next blog, you'll find out Soro's gloomy assessment that US banks are basically insolvent. It will take at least 10 years before things return to normal, if at all.
But many bloggers still write as if market capitalism still work. No, we are about to witness hyperinflation because the paper money has been flooding the globe over the past decades until we are about to be drowned out.

comment 105
Outsider date : 12/04/2009 time : 15.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/outsider

Ahhhhh the famous "equality before the law" statement, Suthep Thugsuban promises the Reds responsible for the ASEAN fiasco will be arrested in 4-5 days but still Yellow has been arrested for the closing the airport. Some colours are more equal than others!

comment 104
MaxHeadroom date : 12/04/2009 time : 14.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C5 - Thanong's view on 1932: I think like in many blogs before we can see your profound believe in that democracy can't work and absolutism or dictatorship is your preferred type of regime.

Sad only, that we live in a country where many of the events that shaped our history can only be read on forbidden books.

And if you ask Ian to come up with evidence against the privy counsellor so the later can sue him - well that's a very cynical attitude.

Suppose someone dared to do that - do you really think he would live to see a courtroom from the inside? Or even if that person were of such high profile, do you think any judge would dare not convict him.

You see - double standard, lack of standard, lack of equality, untouchables and all that leads to just more anger and frustration and violence.

The truth is as we speak some people are already planning their plan B and the later doesn't look pretty.

Still - I can't believe that an educated person like you, Thanong - can support coups and injustice just like that for the sake of a belief system. While you are not alone, that really does trouble me.

Social understanding, brotherhood and compromise are all foundations of a peaceful coexistence and a successful society. If you burn all the bridges with a stonecold, machine-like intellect that tells you that the elite deserves better where will Thailand be in the future?

One would wish that the profound social problems and devide - the gap between privileged and underprivileged in our country should have induced the right questions. But no, you will discard all the right arguments when it comes to showing the banner and keeping it all in place - well just like in a cold war doctrine.

comment 103
MaxHeadroom date : 12/04/2009 time : 14.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C30 wch: there were some 400-500 red shirts in front of the provincial hall yesterday - old paid blog troll

comment 102
MaxHeadroom date : 12/04/2009 time : 14.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

Thanong C28 - why didn't the reds stage a blitz on Abhisit after the summit.

Khun Thanong - every action causes a reaction -it's like cause and effect, so there are many reasons and many fathers to this event.

Let's go to the immediate ones first:

- The day before Abhisit provoked the reds during his televised speech stating that inspite the reds staging their protests all ASEAN leaders had come. He present this quasi as an acknowlegement of the legitimacy of and support for his government by ASEAN. This clearly outraged many reds. One can only asked oneself why he did that? He is something like loud mouthed Samak with better manners - still he can't keep his mouth shut and stop offending his opposition at any given moment by trying to ridicule them or trying to lower them.

- Word had reached red shirt leaders that arrest warrants had been prepared to take them into custody quickly after the summit when world cameras weren't watching anymore, sothey decided to act.

- red shirt also want to celebrate Songkran on Monday so crowds would have been smaller

- the PAD made a good example of using foreign press as a propaganda organ. Yet, today the current administration - themselves yellow shirts - pushed legitimacy of the PAD's actions on the international arena - saying many times 'that what had happened, had to happen' and so on. Abhisit also - like every leader with domestic problems and a recent record of human right problems (s. Rohingya), tried to display himself on the international arena as the legitimate leader of Thailand - at the expense of 'the others' that were merely bought protesters of Thaksin.Little did he say about his party's funding of the PAD before. So his pride here is where you can hurt him the most and I am sure it worked.

Did it work? Well, yes - and again at the detriment of Thailand's image.

Was it to be expected? Yes, absolutely.

Is it fair to Abhisit? Sure, as a decent person you don't do to others what you wouldn't want them to do to you. He gets exactly the kind of treatment he gave to the Somchai and Samak government. In fact his situation looks like the other side of the mirror - a perfect copy just with different orientation. In his few months in power he did about everything that he had accused previous governments of: populist policies, power mongering and political prostitution with Newin and former foes with supposedly inferior morality, human rights violations, nepotism, denigration of opponents, withdrawal of budget support to provinces that did not elect him.

Like Thaksin - Abhisit is not a gentlemen - he just dresses better. He's the same old face of Thai politics that drives so many people - no matter what color - to the streets.

Does Max support any of that? No, I wear green shirts these days - or maybe black when I am depressed. And Thanong, criticising of deeds and attitudes and injustice is not something you can put into a quota system, so it happens as it happens not 50:50 just to keep proportions.

If Chalerm becomes PM - well I will critizise him and take to the streets too.

comment 101
Ian date : 12/04/2009 time : 14.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Peace_out, would you also agree that any government that does not reflect the will and wishes of the people, That does not support freedom of speech but instead uses draconian laws and censorship, that does not display equality in the way it deals with offenders, that openly endorses one law for the rich and another for the poor, that does nothing to abolish endemic corruption and bribery, will always be faced with a rebellious population?

comment 100
DKO date : 12/04/2009 time : 13.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/DKO

Thanong (C58), you must be (and understandably) hurting very much with what is going on to write much if this C58.

Lashing out at other Countries ways and errors does nothing to sort out Thailand's or explain or defend what has been going on especially for the last 3 years.

Irrespective whether in retaliation or not, your C58 come across similar to a child having been told off, starts lashing out emotionally and illogically in all directions at everybody, in an uncontrolled rage.

I will give two examples of just two of many of your poor objectivity and analysis in C58.
1) You said:

The way to go is to seek our roots and tackle the problem from there -- not from your democracy or your human rights (I doubt you have human rights because Wall Street financiers have taken all from you) or your free-market capitalism, which is not so free because failed companies or banks are still allowed to get government bailouts."

I suppose the Thai Government bailouts to desperate farmers (in some case more than once) in your eyes are totally different eh? "Talk about the pot calling the kettle black"

2) To say to bloggers;
"I have told my bloggers to be patient with my writing because I can only write my Thai views step by step. But you all rush to stuff down fake democracy and fake capitalism and fake human rights on us".

I have to say that sentence is both disingenuous and insulting. We mostly call Thai democracy a fledgling immature democracy going through teething troubles (many of us have experienced in our roads to more mature democracies).

You call ours fake when yours at present looks highly dubious on two if not three of those.

We may not be perfect, in fact we are far from it, but for you to lecture to us and pronounce judgement that we have fake democracies and human rights is totally unbelievable and shows amazing ignorance on the subjects.

Your whole C58 comes across as very xenophobic, a regretfully, not uncommon attitude in Thailand and does not serve it well in the Global community.

Maybe Thailand does not need other countries that are such failures in so many important areas! After all it can do its "Sufficiency Economics", has its own human rights values and democracy and to exactly quote you "do you know that we have the best country in the whole world, the best legacies, the best tradition, the best religion of Buddhism".

Please forgive the ignorant rest of the World if it does not come flocking to Thailand's doors to learn from you and see the error OUR ways.

Thanong if we are all so bad at everything and so unworthy and our ways and methods so despised by you, then maybe we should listen to you.

Let us all export and import to/from countries who believe in each other or at least respect each other. Let other countries go on holidays and invest in each other as well.

Thailand, as we often hear, seems to know it all and does not need the rest of the World. Well, nobody knows it all, nobody's ways are perfect and one man's meat in another man's poison. BUT in truth we all need each other in this Global Community (like it or not - "no man is an island") and we all can learn a little or a lot from each other, be it through others success or mistakes.

Thankfully, most Thais I meet do not think the same or as strongly as you seem to in your emotionally and reactionary C58.

comment 99
Peace_Out date : 12/04/2009 time : 13.10

Any person or group that does not respect the rule of law and indulges in violence and terrorism needs to be appropriately charged regardless of their flag colour or class status.
The core of the government is still in existance, so those entities responsible for prosecuting and bringing those offenders to justice need to do their jobs.

comment 98
Ian date : 12/04/2009 time : 13.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, too much has been said by others for me to comment, so all I will say is listen to Joe, he knows what many of us know.

comment 97
FelixQui date : 12/04/2009 time : 12.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Peace_Out, re c.95,
I was writing my c.96 when you posted your c.95. I agree with you completely.

comment 96
FelixQui date : 12/04/2009 time : 12.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

And Thanong, re c.70,
yes, Thailand's free speech and general human rights record is much better than its SEA neighbours. That doesn't mean it's outstanding, it means that the standard you're measuring it by is abysmally low. Do you really think that countries such as Burma, Cambodia, Laos and even Malaysia are what Thailand should measure itself by? If ASEAN showed a little more will to chastise it's monster members, I might have a little more strongly condemned and regretted the break up of its recent non-event.

And I think that free speech began to sink under Taksin's regime and has been deteriorating ever since as draconian tactics are used to enforce self-censorship to the long term detriment of Thailand. I suspect press freedoms have also been on the wane since Taksin, but you should be better placed to comment on that than I am.

comment 95
Peace_Out date : 12/04/2009 time : 12.38

Felix,
There has not been freedom of speach that I can remember for the last 10 years, as well as censorship which also pre-dates the current government.
Seems like a snowball effect since I had been paying attention the last 10 years.

comment 94
FelixQui date : 12/04/2009 time : 12.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

By all means arrest the leaders who broke up the ASEAN meet, but the leaders of the airport hold up must also be arrested.
There is strong prima facie evidence in both cases for successful convictions, and the crimes are serious, so bail should not be an option.
They should all, the red leaders and the yellow leaders, be in gaol awaiting trial.

That Chamlong and his cronies are still walking free, and have still not even been charged for the airport assault, is very suspicious. And before Thanong complains that I'm bringing up an old issue again, I am, because it is relevant. It is such perceived unequal treatment of different groups that has so angered many Thai people. Unless free and unfettered discussion about these events is possible, the deep divisions that have come to light (not been created, merely come into the open) can only continue to fester and erupt. Abhisit has done absolutely NOTHING that could help resolve these divisions within Thai society. He has in fact made far more difficult any lasting solution, and in doiing so will prove to have greatly harmed Thailand and its institutions.

Also in desperate need of an explanation is why on earth Thailand's highest court let Taksin leave the country instead of putting him in gaol on remand. Since most of Thailand expected Taksin to do exactly what he did (skip bail) and since we must assume that the judges are not idiots, there is a very real question to be answered as to what prompted them to let a very high flight risk person leave the country. In the absence of any more plausible explanation, this smacks of some sort of back room deal or influential meddling.

I also think that Thanong's mate Joe makes a good point: some people are pro-red because of Abhisit's increased censorship, which can only make the young and computer literate wonder what it is that is being covered up. Thai people do want to know about matters that affect them, and such perceived efforts to enforce ignorance will inevitably push many into the opposite camp. The yellows, like Abhisit and his minders (are they not the same thing?), are strongly in favour of censorship, and that will push some to sympathise with the reds.

I keep coming back to free speech because without even the possibility of being well informed, there cannot be such a thing as a well informed electorate or any reasonable level or transparency in the decisions and acts of the state and public figures.

comment 93
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 11.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

From Joe, one of my readers:

was reading your article today. you were right. newin is bad news for democracts. like a cancer spreading its virus into democract party. spoke to a few of my hardcore clean democracts. they have given up as well. party and government run by newin and the corrupt guy suthep constantly trying to please newin. it is a sad case. if democracts do not get rid of suthep and newin, soon many democracts supporters will leave them for good. all abhisit cared about is the PM position, he seemed clueless what is going on. I know he is a puppet, but even the puppet samak had more say. at this rate, even i cannot differentiate between democracts and others. a short term gain via newin is a long term loss for democracts and thailand. dont korn and abhisit know thais still remember the IMF days, and korn kept talking about foreign loans will only help thaksin. economically we have a perfect storm building, incompetent government, police and army paralysed, economy going down the drain, high unemployment and more importantly many of my friends in the 20s and 30s joining REDs because of the internet censorship. Internet is part of their lives, shutting it down like taking away TV, phones, drinks, etc. THese people are quite determine and now growing larger in the Red protest.

And the military should just not get involved. That's why US is still unhappy. Mere mention of military arranging new government or backing etc, will make uncle sam mad. And now unbelievable the asean summit going down the toilet. this is even worst than the airport shutdown. prime ministers of the biggest asian countries and in the world were put at risk. never again they will come to thailand. indian ambassador to thailand was saying we will never attend another thai conference. most of the ambassadors were scolded by minister. to see kasit had to be carried on shouders to the boat says it all. what abhisit should have done is the punish the yellow. whole world laughing at us when he said they still investigate. what is there to investigate, lot of videos and pictures in all thai and non thai newspapers. just go to Nation to get those evidence. this yellow issue gave rise to red, plus many thais like me felt there is inequality. we must treat red and yellow the same. what we have done now courts will be discredited. without people listening to courts,courts are useless. yes i understand you want to ban ppp but for heaven sake dont use the cooking show where samak net of all expenses got less than 500 baht for 2 hour show to ban ppp. We just compromised our courts and trust by the people will be hard to re build. you should look at the internet chat and talk to young people. most of bangkokians between 18 to 35 hate the old establishments. we got to fix that. this is the age group that will be the future of our country and same group that brought obama to power.

abhisit should learn if he cannot fix the economy he is gone. frankly now he is just a lame duck pm. 15,000 police and troops cannot control 2,000 unarmed protestors. he should know as well why police and soldiers do not do the bidding of government anymore. anupong should know soldiers must be professional and not to keep taking orders from the top. otherwise the moral power of soldiers are gone. the rank and rile in the army especially young lieutenants and captain know that. thailand elites still dont understand, and abhisit as well, reds are not just about thaksin, the under current for a perfect storm is there, unless they start recognizing the needs of the mass and poorer people, thailand will be a mess. And they should never look down on the poor thinking they just easily bought. a lot of isaan are in bangkok. as in previous elections, my parents take money from the democracts, chart thai, pue padin but voted for PPP. deep down inside, these poor people are just honest people trying to earn their daily food. unless we try to address that, thailand is doom.

comment 92
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 11.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Xena:
Sufficiency means that 30-40 million Thais must have more earnings. About 90 per cent of Thai communities are not living at sufficient level -- lower quality of life because of indebted, destruction of social fabric, poor education and healthcare. Sufficiency for modern sector is to rely less on external factor and to build local capacities.

It is not working yet because 90 per cent of Thais don't understand sufficiency yet.

comment 91
AndreM date : 12/04/2009 time : 11.18
Let's have fun while we make a difference

Comment 83 absolutely spot on. The following comment I wrote yesterday to 5 English newspapers, hope at least one of them have the guts to place it..
Quote..
Dear Khun Abisith krab phom, Today, April 11th, you described the red shirted hooligans as "enemies of the state", right sir, well spoken, and now what?? More talk and talk and talk, the Thai trade which not solves anything when needed?? Fire Suthep, he is obviously not qualified to run your “security” department and because of this un repairable damage has been done which could result in having us to start all over again, WE will be the losers sir. Arrest the “leaders” or traitors of the hooligans and let them cool off in the cooler for a while, when given bail stipulate no more treason talk or else back in jail. Confiscate any taxi which is deliberately blocking traffic (has been done successfully in Amsterdam before). Do not give out permits to use loudspeakers and confiscate the ones trespassing on this rule. Sir, real action, without violence will be understood. Fine anyone disturbing the peace according to the law (remember?) when it cost these simpletons money they wake up soon very soon and don’t fine Baht 200 but Baht 2,000. This country needs all sails in the wind to weather the storm and a mutiny by disgruntled losers is simply not allowed. Today’s disaster had nothing to do with peaceful demonstrating, they came prepared with sticks, petrol bombs etc. THEY came to fight. As a Pattaya resident for over 30 years I am furious and disgusted by the audacity of the mob from other provinces to come to my city to bring havoc. They should stay at their homes and demonstrate there and what have you then, a thousand hooligans per province, a drop in the bucket. Don’t let them group at one place, if needed regulate travel and be prepared to act decisively. As for their coward leader, the fugitive, IMMEDIATELY confiscate any passports he may have and bring a case to the courts for treason. This you have been advised before, what’s the hold up? We the ordinary people like to understand this to you know.
Unquote.
I was and am still very upset.

comment 90
Peace_Out date : 12/04/2009 time : 11.15

Arisman was reported to have been arrested.
Who's Next ?
Weng Tojitrakan and Suporn Atthawong ???????
Reportedly "They urged to protesters to rally at police headquarters to demand Arisamun's release"

comment 89
Peace_Out date : 12/04/2009 time : 10.29

The recent incidents are nothing more than riots controlled by a few leaders Who are meandering
and aimless in their pursuits.
Does anyone remember how riots are delt with in the western world ?
Maybe Songkron will have to be a bit more subdued and celebrated traditionaly at home.

comment 88
xena date : 12/04/2009 time : 10.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/xena

K Thanong,

In a book published by The Thai Chamber of Commerce, “Sufficiency Economy: A New Philosophy in the Global World”. 100 of the most prominent businessman, important institutions and government agencies wrote a short article each. Everyone claimed that their operations and organizational behaviors have always complied 100% with this philosophy. This spectrum of respondents represented atleast 70% of Thailand economy.
If such a large percentage complied fully, why is this not working?

comment 87
Peace_Out date : 12/04/2009 time : 09.05

Scarred foreign diplomats

comment 86
Peace_Out date : 12/04/2009 time : 08.50

My point is:
Agree with it or not, these are the facts and one must take the correct path to confront any irregularities or disagreement.
Not as some do with blanket acusations without facts to back their claims.
To do so is to endanger oneself to the conscequeces.

comment 85
Peace_Out date : 12/04/2009 time : 08.43

C 83............ Exactly correct.
Bravo, Standing ovation to you for pointing out the facts.

comment 84
Peace_Out date : 12/04/2009 time : 07.47

Scarring, intimidating, and blockading foreign dignitaries will leave more than just a "black eye" on all of Thailand. Join the list with lawless Somalia.
For those that have supported and enouraged either of these "MOBS" :
If you believe this is democracy, Wake up ! Democracy is not based on terror or intimidation.
From the Nation: "Arisman Pongruangrong, a red-shirted leader, directed protesters to raid inside the Royal Cliff Beach Resort Hotel to hunt for Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva."
"After the protesters broke inside the building of the hotel, Arisman kept on urging protesters to go inside to look for Abhisit and to disrupt all Asean meetings."
Why did the police and the military fail to take action against the red shirt mob ?????
A reporter said "Protesters were seen to be shaking hands, thanking, and smiling with police officials after breaking into the Royal Cliff Hotel"
Their commanding officers right up to the top of both organisations should be removed and punished for their severe dereliction of duty.

comment 83
DTC date : 12/04/2009 time : 05.13

THANONG:

You can now perceive the level of ignorance we Thais have of our own law. This abysmal degree of illiteracy is catalyzing the political mayhem of the country.

Thus, I deem you can now appreciate my exhortation for the Nation newspaper to formulate a new column dedicated to expounding Thai Law and Constitution for Thais and all people.

Thaksin and the Red Shirts would already have been confined had there been such distinct outlets for educating us Thais to our law.

Let me explicate this point through a practical illustration:

Thaksin broadcasts blatant derisions against the President of Privy Council (Prem). The Red Shirts then brazenly herald that the President of Privy Council resign from office for being unfit to serve.

This single action by Thaksin and the Red Shirts against the Head of Privy Council – IN AND OF ITSELF – already classifies them as perpetrators of Treason Against the Head of State (thus, Treason Against the State) under the 2007 Constitution.

The penalty for this crime, based on the Thai Criminal Code, is long-term imprisonment or death.

Why is this so?

This is because of the realities of our own Thai law. Had we Thais been properly educated, we would have been cognizant that:

(1) The 2007 Constitution authorizes only the Head of State (Monarch) to appoint or remove the President of Privy Council.

(2) The 2007 Constitution also forbids anyone – and even the Legislative Branch or the Judicial Branch or the Executive Branch of the Thai Government – to question the decision of the Head of State regarding His appointment or removal of the President of Privy Council. The President of the National Assembly can only countersign the Royal Command for appointing or removing the President of Privy Council.

(3) The 2007 Constitution sets the President of Privy Council as the personal right hand of the Head of State. The President of Privy Council not only provides advice to the Monarch on all matters pertaining to His functions and to lead the Privy Council. The President Head of Privy Council also serves as the Regent pro tempore if the Head of State is unable to attend to the duties Himself or if the Regent had not been appointed (whether due to Head of the State having not appointed the Regent or there is not yet proposal of the Privy Council to the National Assembly for the Regent).

(4) Thus, under the 2007 Constitution, if the Monarch is unable to attend to His duties on the behalf of the State and a Regent has not been officially selected, then the President of Privy Council becomes the temporary substitute of the Monarch – and has all the powers of the Monarch Himself.

(5) Consequently, the Thai Criminal Code classifies all non-judicially founded accusations against the President of Privy Council as that directly defaming the Monarch Himself. The penalty is long-term imprisonment or death – unless one receives a Royal Pardon.

(6) If the President of Privy Council potentially violates the law, then declaration of offense has to pass through the Judicial Branch (Courts). On the verdict of the Judicial Branch affirming the illegal actions of the President of Privy Council, the Head of State then reserves the right remove the Head of Privy Council from office – or to grant a Royal Pardon and allow the person to continue in office.

(7) The 2007 Constitution does not authorize anyone to question or veto the Royal Pardon – not even all of the Legislative, Judicial and Executive Branches of the Thai Government combined. The President of the National Assembly only has the obligation to countersign the Royal appointment, removal or Pardon of the President of Privy Council.

(8) Thus, any attempt by anyone to defame, appoint or remove the President of Privy Council is illegal and constitutes Treason against the Head of State – without first having the verdict of the Supreme Court and the Royal Affidavit of the Head of State together with the countersign of the President of the Head of the National Assembly.

(9) Under the Thai Criminal Code, Treason against the Head of State is the same as Treason against the State. Maligning the President of Privy Council without officially going through the set mechanisms of the 2007 Constitution in association with the Thai Criminal Code is considered the same as maligning the Head of State Himself.

(10) Even the most idiotic of Thais know the legal consequences of maligning the Head of State.

CLOSING:

Thanong, you can now see how having a new column for the Nation newspaper on “THAI LAW & CONSTITUTION – FOR DUMMIES” is a critical contribution to the State.

comment 82
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 04.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

As a sufficiently conditioned country, we have to be rich in water, agriculture, renewable energy. Our land must be restored without toxics. Our 30-40 million Thais must have their own land to do agriculture and get higher income. In this way, the young would not leave the village to work in low-paid factories in Bangkok or driving taxi or becoming maids. In villages, you only see small kids and the elderly. We have faced a destruction of the social structure because these people have been left behind governments after governments.

I never write bad things about the Red Shirt because I know what they think or who they are. They eat khao niew somtam kai yang like me. They lack opportunities. Now democracy is fake because the politicians come and go with the budget and concessions and enjoy the feast alternately with the military.
So I don't believe in yellow shirt democracy, not Red shirt democracy. They are all fake. Any political system that fails to address the problems of the well-being 30-40 million Thais, who tend the farm and food for us, is fake (no hand-outs please!). If these people have a good foundation with their land and appropriate farming and better education, then we can have the luxury of discussing the philosophy of politics or of human rights.

Does mr Phone-in hear me?

comment 81
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 03.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Japan is one of the richest countries in the world. But if you read Japanese press, you find all articles pointing about severe economic problems. how come? If you're so rich, how can you have deep economic problems?

comment 80
Hermano_Lobo date : 12/04/2009 time : 03.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

Brother Wolf, now we have Lonewolf; but still we have Mickey Mouse economics.
The question is: Reality versus Sufficiency?
It is all about money - if it wasn't; you wouldn't be Thais !

comment 79
ErikOrange date : 12/04/2009 time : 03.29

Sorry the link to Asia Times was wrong, one more try:http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ID27Ae01.html

comment 78
sven date : 12/04/2009 time : 03.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/sven

@maverick263,

yes the scenery isn't nice with such massive security as at the NATO summit, but this results from bad experience and has proven necessary time and again over the last years.

If Thailand wants to host international summits with many heads of state, they might also look for international experience in organisational aspects, especially security.

U.S. President Obama went to Germany and France, even walked by foot with the other NATO leaders. Remember that this multi-day event was publicly announced long ago, so every terrorist and hooligan on earth knew it months before. An international summit is not an unannounced 2-hour surprise visit of troops.

comment 77
ErikOrange date : 12/04/2009 time : 03.27

Well I have seen some Generals mansions. Government officials as well for that matter and it seem a bit incomprehensible for my intellect to understand how all of this can be afforded on their salaries.
When some or one of the revered privy’s brag about owning only one home (actually I think that one in particular is owned by the army, correct me if I am wrong), this bear no credibility.
I have enough very well connected Thai friends to understand the reality of Thai socio structure Thanong. I am not easily duped.
Your proposal is only achievable if starting at the top of the hierarchy; I doubt if that elite will be pleased with your proposal. Actually Sondhi Lim has stated some invaluable facts on this in an interview with Asia Times (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ID27Ae13.html).

comment 76
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 03.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Lonewolf:
How many times do I have to repeat that sufficiency means about right or not too much or too little? You must know yourself whether you should have two glasses of wine or a whole bottle of wine before driving home at night. I never say that we should not trade with other countries. my point is that we should not overly exposed to external factor to the extent that when the external factor turns bad, we go bankrupt or get hurt. For example, if you open a resort, you should not depend 100 per cent on foreign tourists. Sufficiency means you depend 80 per cent on local thai customers and 20 per cent on foreign customers. If foreigners don't show up, at least you can survive and operate your hotel business without much pressure.

I don't reject foreign influence or ideas, many of which are good. I like classical music from west more than Thai classical music. there's nothing wrong about that. But we have to be firm with our roots first before we know how to pick from the foreign ideas and influence.

I don't want Thaialnd to lose its soul like Japan, who has a great tradition and culture but is now completely becoming Japan Inc. Corporate culture dominates the Japanese.

comment 75
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 03.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Erik Orange,
You don't understand the word elite in this country. Neither do Ian or Felix. I have on several occasions show the statistics, which say otherwise. Those who benefit most from this country are Chinese-Thais, who control the economy or the wealth of this nation (Central, KrathingDaeng, Beerchang, CP and multinationals). Of the total Bt7-Bt8 trillion in money deposits in Thai banks, 80 per cent of which are in some 50,000 accounts. These accounts are held by the big corporates or rich families who do businesses.

The Thai politics try to benefit from the economic growth of Thailand (military through power and budget, politicians through power and budget and concessions and connections, civil servants through budget and connecgtions and regulations, police through corruptions)

So who's the elite?

comment 74
lonewolf date : 12/04/2009 time : 03.07

Thanong, your version of sarcasm is really not well placed as I have never (and will never) minimize the rich and historical foundation of Thailand. Thailand can certainly exist totally independent of countries such as the US as it did 777 years ago, but is that in its best interests? I would love to debate US history with you also since that was my field of study at university and still is of great personal interest, but I don’t want to move the discussion into another direction.

And I am fully aware of the distinctions placed between the concept of sufficiency economy and self-sufficiency—I used each term to describe a specific function in my previous contribution to this discussion. But in your move to a sufficiency economy how can you reject the philosophical ideals of the west and yet still accept the benefits those ideals bring. I thought that you would be philosophically consistent in understanding that if you accept the contributions of an NGO, an international foundation, or another countries educational system that you also accept their ideas and their influences upon Thai society. How can you selectively pick which ones you want to fit into a sufficiency economy and which ones that you don’t?

I do want to counter your contention that I am stuck in the good old days…. An English historian named Toynbee, believed that history to be like an automobile where it continually moves forward yet the tires (which represent similar events) turn around again and again. Some things never change and continuously repeat, but progress is a forward only motion.
I am pleased that the US is going through an economic revolution (Thomas Jefferson said a revolution of this sort once in a while is good for a country.) I would be the first to say that the US has over-consumed and under produced. Yet I am not ready to cast aside the potential of this country to self-correct. For me Wall Street has only been a destination and not a controlling force. Its future role will be greatly diminished in the future of this country.

And a little clarification please in your use of the term toxic industries…are you suggesting that Thailand is an environmental leader as opposed to the rest of the world?

comment 73
ErikOrange date : 12/04/2009 time : 03.02

“I recall your not too nice saying a while ago when you say how a third world country like Thailand can teach the world. Well, I forgive you.”

In terms of political, economic and social structure Thanong; Thailand does have some resemblance to a third world country. I meant nothing degrading by this to the Thai people however, which I have a great affection for and want only the best for.

“These scenarios could happen. What happened after the depression in the 1929? We had WWII, didn't we?”

Prior to these events there was also a WWI, which accidentally you can trace back both of these later events occurring back to in its origins. Capitalism regained its strength after the black October days back in 1929, which it will do again. I agree there are many flaws in the capitalistic system. Blatant lack of regulations and personal greed are some of them and economical independence from US economy is definitely needed. To achieve such a goal, a huge increase in domestic consumption is needed both in China and India. However I have a feeling that was not the answer you were looking for?

And you gave no real answer on how realistic you think sufficiency can be achieved in Thailand. If this is to be achieved; doesn’t that require that the elite give up most of their present life style and privileges?

comment 72
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 03.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Hermano:
Again, we have sufficiency economics for several thousands years in Suvarnabhumi, well before Marx's communism or socialism.

comment 71
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 02.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Again, sufficiency means about right, not too much nor too little. It is the middle path. The global economy is having a big problem because the US has consumed way too much, while China and Japan and other emerging countries like us have produced too much.
So there is an imbalance. This imbalance can be more easily redressed if the financial sector has been tamed. Instead, you have global financial capitalism going out of control with leverage. In financial capitalism, you can make infinite gain and at the same time infinite loss. This means that you can become rich one day and turn to be very poor the next day. Now we all are getting poor because of the collapse of financial capitalism occured from overconsumption and overleverage.

The only way is for the US to reduce its consumption (lower standard of living, high unemployment, more financial discipline), China and Japan to produce less and pollute the world less with its toxic factories. Then we have a more stable world. Do you get my sufficiency point?????

comment 70
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 02.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Felix: As a journalist, I would be the first to complain about any human rights violation in this country because it directly affects my job or my making a living. Since I don't complain, why do farang complain on my behalf?

Our human rights record is 10 times better than our neighbours in Southeast Asia. Period.

comment 69
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 02.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Erik Orange:
I recall your not too nice saying a while ago when you say how a third world country like Thailand can teach the world. Well, I forgive you.

as for your writing: "However traditions need preservation and renewal in order to survive. It will never be sufficient only to look back and say; hey look what we had in earlier days, we must turn back and start live like that. However much sufficiency looks good on paper (I am not convinced it does), where do you start?"

Well, you only start when you have nothing to eat on the table. If we were to face depression economics for 10 years from now -- which I believe is happening -- what will you do for a living? Or what will you eat? Excess capacities would be left idle. Machineries would be left to rusty conditions.
Most industrialised nations have walked away from agriculture or food production, so it is difficult to move the people back because they get used to working in offices or shuffling papers. If they were to face depression economics, with economic collapse, high unemployment and government's fiscal bankruptcy, and hyper inflation, what would they do or eat? If there were Third World War, what would they do or eat?
These scenarios could happen. What happened after the depression in the 1929? We had WWII, didn't we?
-------------------------------------
As a country, we need to prepare for the worst case scenario. Well, I know you can't bring your mind to believing that we would be worse off. But I see the end of history coming.

comment 68
FelixQui date : 12/04/2009 time : 02.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

re c.66,
I'm not sure that most farang even think that the dollar is everything: important certainly, but not everything. A lot of people oppose pollution, and are fighting now, in western countries, for stricter controls on what businesses may and may not do in pursuit of their profits. I have no problem with that, nor does capitalism.

If the Thai people were happy to live such that their GDP was lower and their happiness higher, again, neither I, nor human rights have any problem with that. But how such an end is to be come about matters very much: means that violate human rights are not acceptable, and cannot succeed for any length of time. Stability also requires respect for basic human rights. When it is missing, it is missed, and people tend to decide that they want it, and that it's worth figthing for. As we are perhaps seeing.

Perhaps surprisingly, I probably agree with many of your own ideas as to what constitutes a happy, worthwhile and successful life. It seems to be the matter of accepting the different aspirations of others and human rights that create our disagreement.

comment 67
FelixQui date : 12/04/2009 time : 02.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Thanong, re c.31,
If by "on the same par" you mean I and others should attack the red shirts as strongly as the yellow shirts, I disagree, because the yellow shirts inflicted harm that went well beyond anything the reds have done so far or are likely to do. Like Tulsathip Tuptim, I condemn the attack that led to the embarrassing cancellation of the ASEAN meetings, but I can't see how that has materially harmed Thai people in the way or to the extent that the closure of the airport for more than a week did. But be assured, as soon as the reds sink to the same level as the yellows, they will get the same response.

I suspect that you "rarely get any reaction against Red Shirts" (c.32) for the simple reason that most people feel, as I do, that it was the yellows that set in motion what is happening today, that it was the PAD who made irrevocably plain for all to see the deep divisions in Thai society, that it was the PAD who caused real damage to various revered Thai institutons and caused such a loss of confidence and respect that we could see the spectacle of what has been shouted in public the past week, and that it was the PAD who forced many ordinary Thai people to the conclusion that a tiny Bangkok group were intent on maintaining their traditional strangle hold on power whilst continuing to disregard the voices, the aspirations and the rights of the majority of Thai citizens.

I also agree with TomFin, and that is another reason why more people are inclined to more sympathetic to the reds, however unfortunate some of their alliances and methods might be, than the fanatically absolutist ideologies of repression of people like Chamlong. The matter of human rights might be boring, but it is still both true and highly relevant. Had respect for such a basic human right as free speech been enforced rather than denied for the past few decades, the matters that are now coming to a head could have been discussed. That discussion, whilst offensive and deeply troubling to some, might have made possible a far more peaceful road to solid political progress than what we are seeing today. I think there is some truth in your suggestion in c.58 that "military, police, politicians, civil servants and now several industrialists" have abused the system for their own selfish ends. But I think such abuse was possible because the human rights of ordinary Thai people have never had any strong protection under the law. The fight for human rights is essential to the well being of Thailand and the Thai people. The fight for and strong protection of human rights is the only way to prevent the sort of abuse by vested groups that you rightly point to.

re c.55,
I can't belive you wrote: "we [Thai] live happily and peacefully in this Kingdom". It's now obvious that that is simply not true, and may never have been more than a useful myth. And your next sentence again repeats the exclusionary statement "We subject ourselves to Buddhism, ... while we pursue sil (detachment), smathi (concentration) and panya (wisdom)." This is neither true, nor likely to foster understanding and acceptance amongst the various religious and ethnic groups that make up the Thai people. "Philosophy kings" theory has a long history, and it's generally, with some exceptions, been pretty awful, ever since Alcibiades set the standard for Plato.

re c.56
Perhaps you need our human rights because they are the basic human rights that the Thai people aspire to and because they are the human rights necessary to any healthy democracy and civil society where people have the freedoms necessary to pursue a decent human life according to their own values and aspirations.
Do you think that Thai people should have a say in such matters as whether or not they are to protected by the same human rights as, say, the US Constitution legally protects for Americans? Or should some other group decide what is best for the Thai people and what they want, without any reference to the actual wishes of the Thai people?

re c.57,
Again, the facts that we saw today and over the past few years suggest that the belief that "The Thai cultural, social and political, and religious structure is complete in itself," is simply a false belief, or certainly not a very successful one. It is also, again, exclusionary and can only be divisive when linked with a particular religion and rule from Bangkok.

c.58,
"But we can realise our own way through sufficiency economics, a balance between production and consumption, a return to social harmony via wat and community, a respect for the environment and our precious land, a political structure (I hate the word democracy because I don't know what it means) that really benefits the majority of the people." Unless forced on the Thai people in the same way Pol Pot enforced his agrarian utopia on Cambodia, these things are not inconsistent with respect for human rights. The trouble is that perhaps those things are NOT what most, or even many, Thai people actually want! The evidence, when we look, is that apparently these things are most definitely NOT what the majority of Thai people want, as their individual decisions for several decades make very clear. Since sufficiency economics and wats are not what the people want, are you proposing that those things be forced on them?
I would have no problem at all with Thai people, or a significant percentage of them, willingly choosing to live that way. Indeed, I would applaud it. But just because I think it would be a great way to live, it does not follow that I think it's OK to force it on people. I don't think they should be forced to read Homer, either, however much it would enthrall and benefit them.

Nor would I wish "to impose hamburger and Star Bucks on [Thailand]" (c.59). Personally, I never touch either insipid product. I am, on the contrary, very partial to durian, phad Thai, khanom jean nam ya, kuay tiew and tom yam kung. I think people should be permitted to decide those things for themselves. You appear to disagree, but perhaps I've misunderstood you.

Yes, "Each society or country has its own way" (c.59), but they should also be permitted to change those ways if that is what the people, the individuals, who make up that society want. Perhaps "For the monads, it is herding on the stepps" that has been their way for some centuries, but it wasn't always, and if their children decide that they would prefer to leave the bitter and uncertain steppes for a more comfortable life and modern miracles like antibiotics, mobiles and pianos, then they should be allowed to make taht change, as should Thai people. It is not a case of Felix "impos[ing] hamburger and Star Bucks on [you]": it is a case of Thai people avidly embracing those western delights. Most of the world's people have also eagerly embraced them because they are generally better for people than the alternatives, such as autocracy, communism, fascism, paternalistic PCism, blind adherence to tradition and the systematic violations of human rights that are necessary to maintain all those alternatives.

Finally, some possible agreement from c.57,
I don't know enough about it, but it seems at least plausible, from the record of the decades since and the current events, that "that 1932 coup was for the military and some elitists -- never for the common people. And we still suffer from that episode" as you say. That being so, perhaps it's time for some further restructuring to make things better? And however intolerably western they might be, perhaps the likes of "John Locke, Adam Smith, or Marx or Rousseau" do have some ideas worth considering. I also think that Homer has much to offer, but that fount of western civilisation is one of my pet obsessions. Perhaps Homer could be taught in high school as a useful contrast to the usual? (I also wish he were still taught in western schools: he has much more to offer than "practical" things like how to write a job application or use MS Word.)

comment 66
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 02.24
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

By the way, Lonewolf, it's good to get rid most of the toxic factories. I don't want my kids to be exposed to the toxic wastes. You see, you farang try to talk it big that dollar is everything. No, your dollar is not everything.

If we focus on excellence in agriculture and renewable energy, we can live happily in this country by giving back life to the land and removing all the toxic materials created by industrial wastes. Our GDP might be smaller, but we'll be living in peace because we're sufficient. If we have less population, say, 40 million people through family control, we'll be a perfect nation. But the Thais can only know about this after seeing how difficulties other industrialised nations are going through in this round of global depression. Two years ago, industrialised nations are very rich. Now they are fiscally bankrupt. Capitalism is very unstable.

Ummm. lonewolf, I don't think you will ever understand my point because you're stuck in the good old days.

comment 65
ErikOrange date : 12/04/2009 time : 02.13

Thanong you seem to have some valid points in your replies to TomFin. Yes Thailand is a beautiful country with rich traditions, along with most other countries in the world. It is rich on some natural resources and you feed the world with rice. I much more appreciate Thai food culture than that of the USA; if ever there is something that deserves to be called a food culture over there that is.

However traditions need preservation and renewal in order to survive. It will never be sufficient only to look back and say; hey look what we had in earlier days, we must turn back and start live like that. However much sufficiency looks good on paper (I am not convinced it does), where do you start? Tear down the enormous wealth the elite have accumulated in the form of vulgar estates, flashy cars and a vulgar style of life? Can you honestly state that you believe in such ever to become a reality; or do you simply state that leave the villagers in their present empowerment and leave the rich as they are and everything stays status quo?

And at present there seem to be a vast element of Thais simply disagree with you in their wish for true democracy in Thailand and Lenin proved some ninety years ago that you only need some thousand followers to make a revolution, throwing socially established structures out the window. Let’s us all hope such draconic events don’t occur in Thailand soon.

I am pleased you clearly state the current turmoil is caused by the elitist oligarchs, which you obviously count yourself as being one of. You also clearly have a good heart since you opt for a change on all this and that such a change must include improvements for the poorer majority; a majority who never stands any other choice than being bullied by the same oligarchic semi-feudal elite. I just don’t believe in your solutions; hardly even understand most of your suggestions, but than again I am only an ignorant farang.

comment 64
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 02.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Lonewolf:
I really love your argument, which points out that Thailand would pass out if there were no USA. Well, let me tell you a bit about history. USA was created in 1776. Sukhothai would be celebrating 777 years of existence some years from now. So before the year 1776 of US existence, how did the Thais live? We were passed out nights and days?

I write sufficiency -- and you and many bloggers here always deliberately and incorrectly write self-sufficiency. Sufficiency is about right, good enough. Self sufficiency is total self-dependence. The two terms are different.

I never say we must not trade or not depend on other nations. But we have to reduce our dependence on other nations. Recently, Dr Chalongphob said Asia must revise its export-led growth model. Asia must trade with each other more. US consumption is now dead -- at least for a decade or more.

I like Americans because I live there for almost six years of my life. I don't like Wall Streets and its ultra capitalism. Do you get my point?

comment 63
maverick263 date : 12/04/2009 time : 01.51

@lonewolf, c.62

wow... u gave that a lot of thought, i guess na khrap.

comment 62
lonewolf date : 12/04/2009 time : 01.18

Thanong, I certainly hope that my additional comments will not deflect from the debate that is occurring on this blog as the process has certainly brought out your perspective with respect to Thailand’s past, present and future. And as a citizen of a sovereign nation you are certainly free to express your opinion as to how you want your country to be structured and in some respects, how it should be identified. So rather than argue the point with you, I will take the other position and follow your train of thought as to how Thailand would benefit from excluding western philosophical, social or economic influences.

Thailand’s movement to a sufficiency economy should reasonably eliminate dependence upon any economic and charitable contributions from western countries, particularly the US. I have compiled a few suggestions that Thailand’s government and appropriate bureaucrats should consider as they move toward national self-sufficiency. And where warranted, I will personally become involved to support Thailand’s sufficiency movement.

1.All US based corporations should move their headquarters and their operations to other countries and the economic colonial institution of the American-Thai Chamber of Commerce should be disbanded. There should be no economic connection between US business interests and Thailand if sufficiency is to succeed.
2.There are thousands of Thai nationals currently living in the US and sending remittances home to their family and friends. These remittances amount to millions of dollars entering the Thai economy and certainly must end if Thailand is to remove this economic yoke from its back. The US government should forbid such transactions in order to support Thailand in its move to sufficiency.
3.Many of the Thai nationals living in the US also own property and businesses outright. That means that they have 100% ownership of US soil. The US government needs to require these Thai nationals to either move toward US citizenship—giving up their Thai citizenship—or sell their property within 3 years. Once they sell the property they could use those dollars to invest in Thailand which should greatly help its move toward self-sufficiency. In fact, I will contact my congressman (who is a friend of a close friend of mine) and ask him to consider legislation, based upon reciprocity…that because US citizens cannot own property in Thailand, then Thai citizens should not own property in the US. Because of the current economic challenges in the US, I believe such legislation will be seriously considered.
4.No more student visas for Thai students studying in the US. The US should encourage all Thai university students to stay in Thailand to earn their degrees. In 2007 approximately 8,744 students enrolled in university programs in the US…just think about the millions of dollars that could be devoted to Thailand’s sufficiency economy if that money stayed home. (Of course this would also mean that there is no more need for HB-1 visas for graduating students to work in the US for 3 years following graduation.) Education is perhaps the fundamental concept in a move toward self-sufficiency. Why would Thailand want to send its students to any other country to become influenced by other ideas?
5.Because there would be no need for Thai students to come to the US then educational programs such as the Fulbright program will need to be removed from Thailand as well. Even though Fulbright provides full scholarships to US universities for talented Thai students (regardless of social or economic class) continuing this program would detract from the movement toward self-sufficiency.
6.US tourists, while not as numerous as those from Europe or even Australia, should be encouraged to spend their dollars in other countries such as Vietnam or Cambodia. I would then encourage the Thai government to charge US citizens at least $250 per entry visa—this would certainly eliminate many US tourists who would want to contribute dollars to the Thai economy.
7.I know that Bangkok is home to numerous US based NGOs and in true allegiance to self-sufficiency the Thai government should ask them to leave the country. This should also include large foundations such as the Rockefeller Foundation who invest considerable amounts of dollars in charitable work within Thailand. Many of these NGOs also espouse western perspectives on human rights, which run counter to Thailand’s understanding of human rights.
8.The US also has private companies working in Thailand and these also should leave for other countries. The large agricultural company Cargill has numerous plants all over Thailand, partnering with commercial growers to develop many new valued added agricultural products. Of course Cargill intends to make money off of these efforts along with their Thai partners and that should be prevented in the new sufficiency economy. Thailand should use its own agricultural engineers and scientists to create additional value from its products.
9.And finally, in support of Thailand’s march to self-sufficiency all exports to the US should be eliminated. Why would Thailand want to sell rice, shrimp and other products to the US once self-sufficiency has been achieved?. Thailand would certainly not need US dollars coming into the country in the form of profit.

These thoughts only represent a fraction of the movements that Thailand should pursue in becoming a self-sufficient economy. If European and Australian economic and philanthropic commitments to Thailand were also eliminated then self-sufficiency could be well on its way.

comment 61
maverick263 date : 12/04/2009 time : 00.37

@sven, c.54

i enjoy your comments. latest one, imho, reminds me... how lucky i am to live in thailand.

btw... if u want to, why not share some impressions of the general state of well being in uk, germany, france, spain, greece, ireland, etc?

comment 60
Hermano_Lobo date : 12/04/2009 time : 00.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

Thanong: You sound like you are trying to reinvent Socialism.
Your rationale seems to be sufficiently drifting out of the window.
At least you have the guts to debate; unlike Yoon who hides behind his sleeveless shirt !

comment 59
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 00.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I like to debate with Felix because he is my best contrast. While I write khanom jean nam ya, kuay tiew, phad Thai, tom yam kung, khao niew durian, Felix tries to impose hamburger and Star Bucks on us. Felix does not understand why I don't want his hamburger and star bucks.
Each society or country has its own way. For Thailand, it is agriculture. For south pacific islands, it is the sea. For the monads, it is herding on the stepps. For the Morgan, it is fishing.

comment 58
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 00.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Tomfin:
do you know that we have the best country in the whole world, the best legacies, the best tradition, the best religion of Buddhism. But we (military, police, politicians, civil servants and now several industrialists) have abused it.

The way to go is to seek our roots and tackle the problem from there -- not from your democracy or your human rights (I doubt you have human rights because Wall Street financiers have taken all from you) or your free-market capitalism, which is not so free because failed companies or banks are still allowed to get government bailouts.

But we can realise our own way through sufficiency economics, a balance between production and consumption, a return to social harmony via wat and community, a respect for the environment and our precious land, a political structure (I hate the word democracy because I don't know what it means) that really benefits the majority of the people.

I have told my bloggers to be patient with my writing because I can only write my Thai views step by step. But you all rush to stuff down fake democracy and fake capitalism and fake human rights on us.

comment 57
Thanong date : 12/04/2009 time : 00.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

The Thai cultural, social and political, and religious structure is complete in itself. We do not need John Locke, Adam Smith, or Marx or Rousseau. If the 1932 coup had not taken place, a stronger foundation for the common Thais would have been laid down, so that they could have lived in better conditions with better education. That 1932 coup was for the military and some elitists -- never for the common people. And we still suffer from that episode.

comment 56
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 23.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Tomfin:
Why do we need your human rights?

comment 55
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 23.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Tomfin:
I find it funny that you quote Jefferson;
The American, Thomas Jefferson, with help from friends, wrote that “ all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

We do not think your way. To me (you may call be a Thai Jefferson)

All Thais are proudly born in Suvarnabhumi, the Land of Gold richest in natural resources. We are grateful that we live happily and peacefully in this Kingdom, blessed by Phra Siam Thevathiraj and morally guided by philosophy kings. We subject ourselves to Buddhism, Suvarnabhumi and Monarchy while we pursue sil (detachment), smathi (concentration) and panya (wisdom).

comment 54
sven date : 11/04/2009 time : 23.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/sven

Regarding the total incompetence of Thai police and security officials planning the summit in Pattaya, let me explain the security measures taken for the NATO summit a week ago in Germany and France:

Resources needed:
- 24,000 police, most of them well trained in anti-riot and anti-terror methods
- Hundreds of fire fighters
- Thousands of State and Red Cross workers
- Hundreds of armoured police vehicles, ready for immediate detention of rioters
- Dozens of water cannon trucks
- Dozens of teargas grenade trucks
- Hundreds of hard rubber bullet rifles

Some of the measures:
- Detailed scenarios of what could happen, and how to prevent it or react to it
- Complete cordoning of the cities several days before the event, 5 security rings
- Detailed inspection into the locations and surrounding streets and buildings
- Blocking of highways before the heads of states arrive
- Curfew for the inner security cordons, only residents allowed, and only escorted by police
- Total air/sea/river curfew, no bathing, boating etc. allowed
- and much more

Thais will need this for themselves, but especially if they ever want to host an international summit again...

comment 53
RN date : 11/04/2009 time : 23.34

All I can say is that this will never get an ending. If we have an election and Thaksin or Peau Thai (or whatever the name is) wins, then PAD will go out and protest and complain that the election was a set up and Thaksin paid everyone 500 baht to vote for his party. If the millitary and PAD get to form their own government (not elected by thai people), then the other group will not be satisfied. Well, I see no sollution to this problem, Thailand is doomed.

comment 52
TomFin date : 11/04/2009 time : 23.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/justconsiderations

Khun Thanong
“A revolution must be backed by popular uprising.” That is a popular belief but erroneous. If you study the American Revolution, you will find a small minority of remarkable men brought it about. When the fighting began, before July 4, 1776, the majority of “Americans” were loyal to King George of England.

You will also find something similar with the French Revolution, although many other difference make the two revolutions almost complete opposites in philosophy and execution.

You must be correct about my not knowing Thai history. But I do understand Thai history

I understand you being “bored with the argument with human rights.” To many it is an old argument that lacks resonance. Of course, as I am sure you understand, both the American and French revolutions were about “human rights.” They were called by different names then. The American, Thomas Jefferson, with help from friends, wrote that “ all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

But this is nonsensical western speak. Certainly us farang cannot apply these words to Thailand .And so you are bored.

. But I am not bored talking about human rights. It is what makes us human.

Out of curiosity are you comparing The United States to Thailand when you state “Wall Street financiers are having control over Congress and White House. They are not elected. But they are now calling the shot.”

comment 51
wch date : 11/04/2009 time : 23.24

I urge all Peau Thai MPs to resign immediately for re-election. If not, all of them will be treated from now on. NOMINEES.

comment 50
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 23.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Tomfin:
Then I am happy to listen to your educated view since the Thais you talk to are not educated enough. Tell us what's the roots of the 1932 Revolution in your term. And then I'll give you my version.

comment 49
wch date : 11/04/2009 time : 23.13

My Comment 30 is now coming true.

Thaksin made the world to his enemy.
Thaksin made Thai people to his enemy.

Grand purge is expected tomorrow, in the military circle, police, juridicial bodies and officialdom.
AV government long awaited this moment and the time is ripen.

Nopocho leaders will be arrested by urging the court and the prosecutors to expedite on pending prosecution of theirs.

AV government will freeze all money of Thaksin's siblings and the in-laws. Somchai and his wife corruption in airport ground service concession will be the cause of their arrests.

AV government will recall all the money of Thaksin's Cayman Island saving that is believed 3 bln dollars, by declaring to every government, that the money is beloginging to Thailand government.

AV's democrat successfully bound its minor coalitions by making them disseminated from Thaksin syndication.

More MPs of Thaksin party will disseminate Thaksin.

Overall political cleansings will take place including former communists of politics, media and academy.

The Internal security law will be enhanced.

comment 48
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 23.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Tomfin:
You'll see middle-class revolution in US soon if Washington DC keeps on piling up bailout on Wall Street.

comment 47
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 23.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Tomfin:
1932 was not a revolution. It was a coup. A revolution must be backed by popular uprising. It was a coup, staged by a minority military and landlords, who did not want to lose their privileges from reform.

King Rama VII backed off because he did not want to see Thais kill Thais.
I don't think you know Thai history. I am bored with the argument with human rights.

Look at what is happening in US. Wall Street financiers are having control over Congress and White House. They are not elected. But they are now calling the shot.

comment 46
maverick263 date : 11/04/2009 time : 22.22

c.42, c.43

aaah some air to breath.

_if_ there'd been coups all time. & _if_, somehow, thailand "prospered" in decades --- what is bad ab coups? seems it's just some mechanism for systemic "regulation" ,)

oooh... u don't like that anymore? ,)

comment 45
lonewolf date : 11/04/2009 time : 22.19

The advantage to being an outsider during the current political climate in Thailand is that I don’t have a favorite in this contest to cheer on. Adherents of the red shirts or the yellow shirts certainly have valid points of view to support one faction over another, but the debate is often similar to a discussion over whose sports club is better. As indelicate as it sounds the reds vs. yellow contest has become a very high stakes game with only a pyrrhic victory available to the winner.

The ending result will be a Thailand unable to reach its full economic, cultural or environmental potential for another generation. Change must come to Thailand, on that almost everyone can agree, but the problem is that for change to happen vested interests must willingly give up position or power…and that will not happen without a fight.

comment 44
TomFin date : 11/04/2009 time : 22.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/justconsiderations

No , Khun Thanong, I do not find this irrational in the least. On the contrary. Perhaps we read different books, but in the west, we learn that 1932 was a revolution. I do not wish to get into semantics, but coming from the United States, where we know something about revolutions, the goal of a coup versus a revolution is different.

The 1932 Thai uprising changed, partially, the form of government, not just “the” government. I discern a big difference.

If you believe there is no difference between 1932 and the coups that followed, nothing I say will change that. You can, and will, interpret events as you view them through your cultural prism

Perhaps some may argue that the revolution, uprising, or coup did not go far enough.

What I find to be frustrating in discussing politics with educated Thai’s (uneducated seem to be the same) is a lack of knowledge of history, both within and outside Thai borders.

Thai’s see in black and white. Yet, almost all problems and disagreements are grey.

Both the red shirts and the yellow shirts have nefarious qualities. If a civil war erupts, perhaps change will follow.

I agree with Ian. It is becoming less about Thaksin and more about the basics of human rights. While most Thai’s cannot interpret human rights in the same manner and light that a westerner views human rights, change is coming to the Thai people. They will demand basic human rights that should be afforded to all people.

comment 43
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 21.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Tomfin:
If you read all the literature or articles about Thai politics, they all condemn the dozens of military coups. But the only one coup they cherish is the military coup of 1932. That 1932 coup is OK, while the ensuing coups are bad. Don't you find it irrational?

comment 42
TomFin date : 11/04/2009 time : 21.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/justconsiderations

Khun Thanong,
You have made a fascinating and revealing observation when you state that “ the incalculate damange to Thailand started when the military staged a coup in 1932.”
I am sure you understand what you said. For others let me remind them that on June 24, 1932, "Khana Ratsadon", the tiny People's Party, with Pridi Banomyong as the leader of the civilian faction, carried out a lightning coup that abruptly ended 150 years of absolute monarchy under the Chakri Dynasty. Khun Pridi was named one of the world great personalities of the century by the UNESCO in 2000.He died in exile in the Paris suburbs on May 2 1983.

Would you care to elaborate on your statement, Khun Thanong. Or is the topic of a sensitive nature.

While many comments on this blog are valid, I believe that both the yellow and the red and maybe the blue shirts too, have some valid points to discuss. I also believe the sides are comprised of myopic people cursed with tunnel vision who display selfish and shameless values.

Thailand is rapidly becoming a failed state. What is most sad, what the Thai people do not and cannot understand, is that most of the world just does not care.

comment 41
Ian date : 11/04/2009 time : 20.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, 38. The one thing I cannot factor into the equation is Songkran, I think this is where being a Thai counts for more than being an informed Farang.
Which is most important to a Thai, Songkran and family and Sanook, or unfinished business? I guess the next few days will answer my question.
Perhaps the reds will attack with water pistols and white powder

comment 40
Outsider date : 11/04/2009 time : 20.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/outsider

Both sides are now engaged in a ridiculous "tit for tat" siutation, first the airport now this. Its clear that netiher side cares about the image of the country nor the economy. As the saying goes "you reap what you sow" and the Thai people will pay the price now.

comment 39
Tow date : 11/04/2009 time : 20.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/jirawit
Close to nature ...

the Thai anthem:
"Thai loves peacefulness, but never coward in fighting (even with their own country)".

I think it's very tragic when they fought for their private sake.

comment 38
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 20.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Forget about it Ian:
Today is the day of the Red. Let's watch what they are up to next tonight. There were rumours of Parliamentary dissolution. The military is on high alert. Same old script.

comment 37
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 20.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Then I agree with your point now. The next step is to bring out your evidence. Because members of Privy Council can sue you if you accused, rightly or wrongly, any of them of involving in politics without evidence. I want to know how Gen P and Gen S are involved in coup. Let's bring out the evidence.

comment 36
Ian date : 11/04/2009 time : 20.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, 35. You seem to be saying that a comment directed at the Privy council or a member thereof is directed at the Thai Monarchy I would deny this. To me the Privy Council is not the Monarchy, it is the servant of the Monarchy. The Monarchy is not at fault, its servant may be.

comment 35
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 20.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian, I am not desperate. But you have been trying to link Thai Monarchy with the political turmoil, without any evidence. If any elite was involved in politics, just bring out the evidence. I want to hear it.
The problem is that you only surmise from circumvential secondary news reports.

comment 34
Ian date : 11/04/2009 time : 20.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong 16, I am working on the basic and natural assumption that anyone delegated by the king to perform a particular function would clearly proclaim this fact. Like an ambassador he would have credentials. I am surprised at you trying to trip me up over such a petty point, are you getting desperate?

Basically, apart from a forlorn comment from wch, the consensus seems to be that Abhasit has shown himself to be ineffective. As yet no one has suggested what comes next, is there a solution or is everyone so entrenched Thailand drifts into anarchy.

comment 33
maverick263 date : 11/04/2009 time : 19.49

@felix; c. 20, 27, 26 etc.

thx a lot for ur comments. & pls don't get me wrong.

1) this is blog-land so allow me to keep it simple.

2) it has been stated in recent past udd would _not_ be "ab thaksin", but ab attracting folks from all different kind of thai life whose yearning is for "real true democracy".

3) felix, Ian, others: _in general_, i'll not object to this observation.

4) to keep this simple: in recent days, leaders of udd have more than one times exemplified they act on behalf of thaksin. we're not talking any ideas here.

5) in terms of war; if a country XXX endorses finances supports destabilisation of country YYY, that makes for "an act of warfare".

6) both udd leaders as well as thaksin himself act in ways of "extra-judiciary entities": that is entities not bound by governing law. claims are like, "power to the people" bla bla.

7) sorry, i just try to describe apparent events.

comment 32
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 19.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I have given you all the space to attack Yellow Shirts. Now I rarely get any reaction against Red Shirts.

comment 31
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 19.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Felix: I do understand your point. But the degree of your attack or Red Shirts and Yellow Shirts must be on the same par.

comment 30
wch date : 11/04/2009 time : 19.01

Today's Pattaya Incidents is another gist of the upperhand of the Democrat.

AV government made successfully Asean leaders to review on Thaksin syndication how it is ugly.

By this tactics, Asean + 3 will certainly recognize AV government is legitimate and democratic government.

AV government will use the Nopochor red shirt to demonstrate how extent the democratic governance can do and all of their style will prove how the Thaksin syndication is uncivilized.

Today I drove along Khonkaen city to see how this Thaksin city show. Dont be surprised. I tried to find single a red shirt inside city. None. I made many interviews with the city people and found all of them sniffed off the red.
I wonder really which media color this city as Thaksin's red stronghold.

Tomorrow I will wander Udon city which is another Thaksin base and will write.
Also I will do same in Kalasin city as this evening news reported, this city is on demonstration besieging the city hall.
Also I will try to make contact with any paper news reporters of Nation, Matichon or Phujatgarn and write what I discuss with ones.

Not a single red shirt was seen in Khonkaen and If anyone like to write to me, please just do it in this blog, then I will go out, take photo and upload here.

comment 29
FelixQui date : 11/04/2009 time : 18.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Thanong,
I think the reason is obvious: they did it to make an impact. It worked. They are the lead story on the BBC and around the world.

The PAD occupied the airports and harmed hundreds of thousands of foreigners for exactly the same reasons.

The yellow originators and their red offspring are root and branch of the same blighted tree.

comment 28
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 18.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Felix and Max: Let me ask you one question: Why didn't Red Shirts stage a blitz against Abhisit after the Summit?
They could do whatever they want among Thais or even kill each other if so they want, but they must not involve the foreign leaders and guests.
Do you get this point?

comment 27
FelixQui date : 11/04/2009 time : 18.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Also see Tulsathit Taptim's thoughtful commentary "Round Two: Everyone Loses" at http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/04/11/headlines/headlines_30100288.php

i fully agree with his assessment that "The red-shirted movement, while having achieved a key objective of preventing the Asean summit with dialogue partners, can't be content with the glaring truth that, like its rival People's Alliance for Democracy, it has become its own worst enemy."

Now, is Thanong also going to blame Tulsathip for bringing up the PAD yellow shirts again? And for condemning their excesses along with the reds?

comment 26
FelixQui date : 11/04/2009 time : 18.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

And Thanong, re c.12 again,
Let's stick to the facts, I don't think any world leaders were actually "held hostage".
The hotel was attacked and the ASEAN meetings disrupted. That's not quite the same as taking hostages. According to reports in the Nation, no leader was harmed or taken hostage. They are all safe and sound and in protective custody.

See Max's c.17 again.

comment 25
maverick263 date : 11/04/2009 time : 18.22

@Max, c.17:

"What I see here is that you are too afraid in accepting an unpleasant reality - one where your heros have become dirty and reality is gray - a reality that would shatter your beliefs that you have created to life a life with fewer contradictions.

This is what this is all about."

yes, this is what this is all about.

"... I can understand you - to see the current picture with my eyes is really dead unpleasant..."

indeed

comment 24
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 18.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Max: YOur line of writing is exactly the same with those guys at BP. No wonder.

comment 23
FelixQui date : 11/04/2009 time : 18.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Max's c.17, as usual, sounds about right to me.

comment 22
FelixQui date : 11/04/2009 time : 18.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Thanong, re c.12,
Yes, I "have been roundly condemned the Yellow shirts". You got that right.
However, I have NOT said anything here or elsewhere to justify your false claim that I "can't raise a finger against the Red Shirts."
I didn't directly comment on them below in my c.8, but I hardly think that "I'm sorry this has happened" is approval. It isn't.

In my c.18 on your post "Red Shirt protesters are about to lose steam as Shinawatra clan members retreat", I wrote: "The red shirts have done nothing as remotely harmful to Thailand and hundreds of thousands of people to date, but be assured, as soon as they do, I will condemn it. As soon as they too occupy any international airport, I will be amongst the first to condemn that act, " and I stand by that. (See http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong/2009/04/09/entry-1 )

The red shirts were wrong to invade the premises where the meeting was being held. They should have maintained a peaceful protest on the perimeter rather than copying the extreme tactics of the yellow shorts.

Yes, the red's actions have harmed THailand, but that harm is largely to its image, unlike the occupation of the airport which immediately and directly harmed vast numbers of real people, both Thai citizens and foreigners. Still, this violence most likely will have an impact on the travel industry, and for that harm, the red shirts are responsible. Fortunately, unlike the PAD, the reds have not timed their outbreak of illegal activity to coincide wtih the start of the peak tourist season.

Actually, as my c.8 below suggested, I'm now wavering about how to assess the PAD. What they did was totally unacceptable, but it may have irrevocably broken enough taboos and exposed enough murk that some positive change and transparency will now be possible, even necessary, in Thailand. I'm not sure that the reds as they are will be able to deliver that, but they, like the yellows, might pave the way for those who can. Not only did the PAD yellows succeed in their efforts to embarrass Thailand and its PM, not only did the PAD yellow shirts cause far greater actual and direct harm to Thailand and Thai people, but the yellow clad PADs also did far more harm to the office of PM and other Thai institutions than the reds are capable of. If they prove me wrong, I'll admit it, but I just don't think the reds have it in them to inflict the the sort of harm and cause the fractures, of which they are perhaps merely a symptom, to Thailand that the PAD has already achieved. The PAD was very well run, very well planned, but someone made a big miscalculation, and what happened today seems to me a pretty direct result of that rather large boo boo. Nor have Abhisit's handlers permitted him to take the only steps that might have repaired some of the fractures , exposures, taintings and other harms wrought by the PAD.

For now, the red's assault on the ASEAN summit was as inexcusable as was the PAD's assault on the airport, and although it and the reds have not done nearly as much harm either actual or to Thailand's reputation as teh yellows did, the leaders responsible should join Chamlong and his colleagues awaiting trial on remand in prison. If Abhisit had any authority or competence, they would all be in gaol now.
And of course, had someone not wanted him to "escape" Taksin would also be in gaol in now, rather than running around the world stirring things up!

The PAD yellows, having caused so much more real harm to Thailand and its institutions, it is natural to dislike them more than the reds.

comment 21
maverick263 date : 11/04/2009 time : 18.15

@Ian, c.6 & Dalmatian, c.4:

i stated elsewhere i like Abhisit.

i go along with ur analysis (Max' too, 4 sure): both of u get stuck in answering a very simple but profound question:

who's out there to do what u & many ppl wish for?

that's a reason i like abhisit for. it's ab "politics"; that's dealing w realities --- not trying to sell empty words to ppl ,)

u wanna post an ad on craig's list: wanted! man for worst job: pm of thailand?

comment 20
RN date : 11/04/2009 time : 18.15

Ok Thanong, my insights about todays event was ofcourse not good, but this is the first time the red shirts do something dramatic. PAD has been doing this hundreds of times. Blocking government house, airports, shooting at people, hurt innocent people that is not supportive with PAD, hijacking buses etc etc. OK, now I am ranting about PAD, but it is hard not to when the red shirts gets so much complaint about todays event when PAD has been doing so much worse without getting any punishment.

comment 19
Chris-TH date : 11/04/2009 time : 17.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Chris-TH

K. Thanong,

Let me give it a try (without involving PAD).

First of all the Government "gambled" with Thailand's reputation and the security of the ASEAN leaders on order to "prove" that everything is "back to normal" and "we are in control". That proved to be a very bad bet.
Now it has been show to the world that Thailand is NOT back to normal, and the Government is NOT in control.
The Government organized the event with that in mind (in my opinion). The selection of Pattaya as venue was probably due to the proximity of the U-Tapao airport (airbase) whch has now been used to evacuate the ASEAN leaders.
Do I approve the actions of the Red? Not at all, but again they showed that they could make their protest close to "peaceful", and who can blame them for utilizing the "stupidity" of the Government.

For ASEAN, I would suggest that Thailand gives up the "chairman seat", and wait until things are resolved in Thailand. A postponement is not the answer and the other ASEAN members deserve better (there are problems to be solved and in that context the internal Thai problems is of no importance).

Another fatal failure for Thailand (but rather predictable and avoidable)

comment 18
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 17.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Max: It won't end till it ends.

comment 17
MaxHeadroom date : 11/04/2009 time : 17.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

I don't want to say this Thanong but I guess I have to: I told you so.

As many months before it's all laid out and planned. You won't get away from reporting surprising news unless you start to engage in investigative journalism instead of disseminating propaganda news. Or did you convince yourself to believe in all these biased views so much that in the end they have become your view of reality.

Again, let argue here a bit: you state that the assassination plot is really a conspiracy and all fake. What is your reason here to discard all police evidence? Let me guess - in your universe ALL police are in bed with Thaksin.

Well, I guess it's so easy for you to explain it like that. Did the police intervene to stop the investigation into the New Year Bombing following the lead to the special ops units? No, it was Gen. Sonthi himself who pressured the police to back down and look for the 'real' criminals. Who founded these units?

Ahh there you go - Khun Thanong come with arguments.

What I see here is that you are too afraid in accepting an unpleasant reality - one where your heros have become dirty and reality is gray - a reality that would shatter your beliefs that you have created to life a life with fewer contradictions.

This is what this is all about.

You know, I can understand you - to see the current picture with my eyes is really dead unpleasant, so maybe you are right to look away.

Have a drink with Yoon - he'll sympathize.

comment 16
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 17.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian, you are writing without correct information.
Can you prove your phrase "Without Royal mandate?" If you are taken to court, can you prove this?

comment 15
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 17.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

RN, give your insight about today's events rather than ranting about the PAD.

comment 14
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 17.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I am updating...............Stay tuned.

comment 13
RN date : 11/04/2009 time : 17.14

PADs blockade of the airport was a lot worse than this ASEAN summit thing. The funny thing is that PAD made a statement today that they are concerned over the red shirt situation and demand the government to use more power to take them away because the red shirt is damaging the reputation of Thailand haha. How dare they say that after all damages PAD has created. They are the ones who destroyed Thailand. Now Thai people want democracy back in Thailand but PAD thinks they are destroying Thailands reputation. Well what is a worse outlook for Thailand, being a dictatorship (PAD) or being a democracy (Red shirts)?

comment 12
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 17.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Felix: You have been roundly condemned the Yellow shirts. Now you can't raise a finger against the Red Shirts. Is holding world's leaders as hostages less damaging than taking over the airports?

comment 11
sven date : 11/04/2009 time : 17.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/sven

Khun Thanong, could it be that the police simply isn't equipped and trained for such scenes? Maybe they don't want to be the culprits again when firing those Chinese firework teargas grenades ?

comment 10
DKO date : 11/04/2009 time : 17.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/DKO

Ian (C2)

. Ian you keep stating this and I do not dispute your view except that I believe you greatly underestimate the percentage that IS in full support of Thaksin as well as the Red's other ideals and who would wish him back in power quickly, if the Red Shirts were to succeed in other worthwhile (non Mr.T) aims.

The Red Shirts have had a great victory today for recognition of their movement but at what cost to Thailand's international respect that Abhisit (whether you like him or not) has been working so hard to repair.

Tourism has taken another major hit. Thailand cannot keep thinking tourist will come back. Sure they will not be put off long by past troubles, BUT who wants to book a holiday not knowing if they will walk into new protests and violence when they get here months later.

It seems to me the Reds are moving little by little toward the unacceptable methods of the Yellows
and accelerating.

Like the Yellows they are upsetting locals and their right of movement and to carry out their business.

They have now used violence and taken over parts of the ASEAN Summit Hotel.

What next all out Civil War?

I know some declare that for democracy to succeed sometimes people have to make a stand. What we are now getting is people making a stand for democracy using increasingly similar undemocratic means as those used and abhorred by the undemocratic Yellow Shirts/PAD.

Heaven help us all when the Yellows mobilise their forces and the two confront each other, which seems more and more inevitable every day. what will the Military or Police do stay in their barracks or take sides or get attacked both both Yellow and Red if they intervene.

In the meantime the person stirring it all up Big Time is safe and sound overseas whilst his supposedly beloved Thailand head for meltdown and Civil War. His close family have just abandoned ship after his provocative repeated video links and phone ins . Well he wanted a Peoples Revolution and he is likely to get wish a violent People Revolution and civil war of Reds vs Yellows. Mr.T He is intelligent enough to know his stirring and rhetoric was dangerous and likely to promote what we beginning to see happen.
Nobody (be they supporter or haters of Mr. T) will ever suggest Mr. T does not know exactly what he is doing.

Make NO mistake Mr. T is up to his eyeballs in the Red Shirt Movement. Look at the number of video links and phone ins he has made at the RED SHIRT Shirt Rallies recently - it is clear he is heavily involved AND that many Red Shirts are rallying for his cause as much as their other ideals.

Shame that Democracy and Mr. T do not go together.

Abhisit has lost nearly all credibility. Compare the UK's ability to hold a G20 meeting only a week ago with many different diverse groups protesting some hell bent on serious violence.

The PM of Thailand cannot control a few thousand Red Shirts who to be honest are not showing much violence at present.

If a Government cannot look after its VIP guests, control the police and military under it then it has to go, just as the PPP needed to go for the exact same reasons.

Problem is, this all suggest the Police and mainly the Military ARE (like it or not) calling the tune whether the Government is Dem or PPP.

It is breaking my heart seeing what is building here in Thailand and the losers of course and AGAIN will be the ordinary People of Thailand and not powerful, the elite , the rich or the MPs they will just carry on similar business as usual once the dust settles

comment 9
sven date : 11/04/2009 time : 16.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/sven

Me wonders, do Thais actually care what goes on behind the scenes, or do they only want tranquility, regardless how rotten their leadership is ?

comment 8
FelixQui date : 11/04/2009 time : 16.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

I'm sorry this has happened.
I hope the situation calms down.

I don't think it's Abhisit's fault; his handlers have made too many miscalculations, beginning before they ever made him PM.

I agree that the damage to Abhisit is irreparable, but I think more substantial and equally irreparable damage was done to more than any PM or even the office of PM last year. The last few days have simply been the continued unfolding of what was then made set in motion and made possible. For those precedents and clarifications of issues and divides in modern Thailand, the PAD must be held to be due much thanks.

comment 7
sven date : 11/04/2009 time : 16.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/sven

I'm sure most Thais right now are sick of powerful people on all sides egomanically wrecking the country.

When will there be an urprising by the silent, non-coloured majority? When are they going onto the streets to voice their opinion?

comment 6
Ian date : 11/04/2009 time : 16.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Abhasit has been like a sheep dog with too many handlers, so always too little too late. In this I agree with Dalmasian, but what leader could satisfy both of us.
to satisfy me it would need to be someone with the strength to firmly remove meddling Generals, Air Chiefs and the police from politics for good. To stop Privy Councillors from interfering in politics without a direct Royal mandate to do so. To arrest and try swiftly, every Yellow and every Red that have broken the laws. To tackle corruption at all levels of society, deal with the southern problems and the economy as best one can. Finally, to realise that Thaksin is a spent bullet that can be dealt with when more pressing problems have been solved.
Is there such a person, I cannot see one amongst the present bunch of politicians, perhaps you can.

comment 5
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 16.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Catch22, the incalculate damange to Thailand started when the military staged a coup in 1932.

comment 4
Dalmasian date : 11/04/2009 time : 16.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dalmasian

I am very sorry to have to say this, but as far as I am concerned, Abhisit is finished as a prime minister, even though its was Suthep who really screwed-up as the point man in charge of security affairs.

The buck stops with Abhisit. It is that simple. By failing to act quickly and decisively from the very beginning in napping the leaders of the Red Shirts before they could wreck havoc, Abhisit has sealed his own fate, no matter how good, how educated, how clean, how loyal to the King, and how articulate he is.

He has blatantly failed in his # 1 job to bring back justice, respect for law and order, act acording to the rule of law, etc. that he had promised to do in his inaugural speech in Parliament. He has proven himself to be a weak person, not a good prime minister material. Thailand does not need a weak prime minister. Thailand does not need a wishy-washy and indecisive prime minister.

Abhisit may have excellent English speaking ability, but Thailand really needs an honest man of conviction with a sense of justice and one who is really up to the task of rebuilding the country and at the same time dealing with the dark forces of the present society and the cancer of corruption that is pulling the country apart.

Is there such an incorruptible, experienced, honest and capable man of high integrity within Thailand who can lead the country and clean up the mess at the same time?

I really wonder!

comment 3
Thanong date : 11/04/2009 time : 15.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian, let me finish my writing first. Wait....

comment 2
Ian date : 11/04/2009 time : 15.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, you made the same mistake as Abhasit, you assumed the red shirts are all about Thaksin. They are not, at the outset they were but things have moved on. At the start the reds were simply a 100% Thaksin movement, but now I doubt if that even represents 50% of the Reds.
The Reds unlike the yellows are not a tight knit organised group, they are a mixture of peoples with only one thing in common, a dislike of the present quasi-legal government. The non Thaksin reds are increasing even as the Thaksin reds are shrinking. By concentrating on Thaksin Abhasit and his controllers have made a big mistake.

comment 1
catch22 date : 11/04/2009 time : 15.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

The incalculable damage to Thailand was started by the yellow shirts and now it seems the red shirts are going to finish it.
They are obviously stronger than people thought!

What colours do we have left?

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