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Thanong
Thanong Khanthong
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong
Saturday , November 8 , 2008
Painting Himself Into the Corner
Posted by Thanong , Reader : 2341 , 08:22:50  
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Sundary, November 9, 2008

One of my friends wrote to me about procedures to get Bahamas citizenship. Bahamas does not recognise dual citizenship.

"Remember last month when T said he would surrender his red passport voluntarily "to take the pressure off the PM"?
 
Did that make any sense given how important this has been to him?
 
Theory: maybe he needed to surrender his Thai passport or declare he would to get the Bahamas citizenship?
 
Bahamas law does not recognize dual citizenship and says that if you are born somewhere else you have to renounce it within 12 months of becoming a Bahamas naturalized citizen.
 
So if he gives up the Thai passport forget about ever extraditing him - or anyway it will be very hard.
 
He can always reclaim the Thai passport later as a born Thai."

*************************************

BAHAMAS

CITIZENSHIP
: Citizenship is based upon the Constitution of The Bahamas, dated July 10, 1973. All persons who were citizens of The Bahamas before July 10, 1973, retain their citizenship.
BY BIRTH: Birth within the territory of The Bahamas does not automatically confer citizenship.
BY DESCENT: Child born legitimately in the territory of The Bahamas, at least one of whose parents is a citizen of The Bahamas. Child born abroad legitimately, whose father is a citizen of The Bahamas.
REGISTRATION: The following persons are eligible to obtain Bahamian citizenship through registration: Foreign woman who marries a citizen of the Bahamas. Person (18 years or older), born in the Bahamas, but whose parents were not citizens of the Bahamas. Person (18 years or older), born in wedlock outside the Bahamas to a Bahamian mother. Child adopted by Bahamian citizens.
BY NATURALIZATION: Bahamian citizenship may be acquired upon fulfillment of the following conditions: Person has resided six to nine years in the country (12 months consecutively before applying), intends to reside permanently in the country, is of good character, and knows the language and customs.

DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. Exception: Dual citizenship obtained due to birth abroad may be retained up to 21 years of age. Person then has 12 months to renounce foreign citizenship; otherwise their Bahamian citizenship will be revoked.

LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP:
VOLUNTARY: Voluntary renunciation of Bahamian citizenship is permitted by Parliament. Contact the Embassy for details and required paperwork.
INVOLUNTARY: Parliament has the right to revoke the citizenship of any naturalized citizen. The following is grounds for involuntary loss of native-born citizenship: Person voluntarily acquires a foreign citizenship.

ANY QUESTIONS concerning citizenship, or requests for renunciation of citizenship, should be directed to the address below:
Embassy of the Commonwealth of The Bahamas bahemb@aol.com Consular Section www.bahamas.net.bs/government 2220 Massachusetts Ave., NW www.bahamas.net Washington, DC 20008
Embassy/Consular Telephone: 202-319-2660 Fax: 202-319-2668

Sunday, November 9, 2008

Why did the UK government decide to deny the visas of  Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife, Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra?

Why? 

We can only made circumstantial speculation at this point because the British authorities have categorically denied to comment on this matter. Even the British press had not heard anything about Thaksin's visa. The visa story was broken in Bangkok on Friday's evening.

There was one slight hint that we have overheard so far: The condition that Thaksin got his UK visa then and the condition that Thaksin would not get his re-entry visa now are different.

After suffering from a military coup that removed him from power, Thaksin flew directly from New York to London for an asylum on September 19, 2006.  Later on the British government simply said Thaksin could get in and out of the UK through normal visa -- nothing special.

The UK has been granting asylums to all kinds of leaders, dictators, dissidents, none of whom have ever been kicked out.

But the UK, to be frank, was not happy with the Thai coup at all. At least Thaksin was considered pro-British. During his prime ministership, Tesco Lotus of the UK was expanding its wholesale business in Thailand rapidly and aggressively, with Thaksin's blessing.

There had been attempts to introduce a retail law to curb the expansion of the foreign retailers and wholesalers. But during Thaksin's time, the retail law would never see the light.

In this light, Thaksin should be considered as having promoting and supporting British interests. Thaksin would be welcome to the UK any time. And the UK had played down Thaksin's stay in London as just another rich foreigner.

Australia also had a similar frame of thought. Since Thaksin delivered the free trade agreement with Australia, he would also be welcome to stay in Australia in the event that he could not find a sanctuary after the coup.

Now it is not sure whether Australia's position remains the same or has changed. 

The British Home Office about a month ago confirmed that Thaksin was seeking a political asylum status.

That was then.

So now what conditions that have changed and have led the British authorities to revoke Thaksin's visa?

1. The Supreme Court's verdict against Thaksin changed the course of events. Thaksin was found guilty over the Rachadapisek land deal and was sentenced to two years in prison. Before receiving the verdict, he jumped bail and left Thailand with his wife. Earlier, Pojaman received a three-year sentence for tax evasion in another stock dealing case.

2. Thaksin's status is not of a political asylum seeker any more because he received the verdict from the Supreme Court, Thailand's highest court of the land. Rather his status is now of a convict on a run. The British authorities are understood to have sent a team to study the verdict of the Rachadapisek land deal closely.

3. Thaksin could not claim that he was a victim of political persecution. He charged that the military leaders, who staged the 2006 coup, were behind the verdict against him.

4. Thaksin was back in Thailand between February and August, during which time his People Power Party was in power. Nobody was issuing him any threat.

5. The British government might feel uncomfortable were it to allow Thaksin to use London as his headquarters to plot against Thailand.

6. Since Thaksin is an ordinary criminal convict, his request for political asylum is weak. The British authorities waited until he and his wife left the country before denying them re-entry visa.

7. By doing so, Thaksin and Pojaman could not stage an appeal.

8. The British government has sent out an implicit message that it recognises the judiciary system of Thailand.

9. London would feel unfortable similarly if Bangkok were to allow a Briton to use Thailand as headquarters to plot against England.

10. London has now removed the burden of Thaksin from its chest without hurting anybody's else feelings except Thaksin and Pojaman.

11. One theory is that London might have uncovered some hanky-panky deals of Thaksin. In the past, again, London has never kicked any leaders out. 

12. One Thai official said whenever Thai authorities go to London, one of the most frequent questions asked is Thaksin's record in the extermination of the drug dealers, around 6,000-7,000 of whom were killed in the drug suppression campaign.

12. It was a secret deal between Thailand and the UK.

13. Thaksin can no longer claim that he represents Democracy in the international arena because of the UK's visa stance against him.

14. Thai rule of law is being pursued and upheld not only in Thailand but also being recognised elsewhere.

15. Letigimacy of rule of law is equally important as legitimacy of Democracy.

########################################

What can Thaksin do now?

Chuan Leekpai, the former leader of the Democrat Party, said several time while Thaksin was in power that "He might need to be more careful because one day he might not have a land to live." Chuan's prophecy is fulfilled.

1. His Thai Rak Thai people say Thaksin might go to Bahamas. But how would he can ensure that he get adequate security protection?

2.  Another Thai Rak Thai person said Thaksin is building a Bt300-million home in Beijing. Will Beijing grand Thaksin's asylum? China now has very close and good relationship with Thailand. China might not want to handle this hot potato.

3. What would be the position of the Common Wealth countries, the EU or the United States  if Thaksin were to apply for visas to travel to their countries? Would they heed London's action. Once a country allows Thaksin in, it would be very difficult to have him out because the appeal process can drag on for years.

 4. Should Thaksin head for Taiwan or Cambodia instead where there are no extradition treaties? Watana Asvahem, the former chairman of Puea Pandin Party who is on a run from a court verdict, is now believed to be living in Koh Kong, Cambodia. 

5. Or should Thaksin return home and go straight to jail for two years and plot his political game from there?

#################################################### 

Saturday, November 8, 2008

All of Thaksin Shinawatra's plans and strategies to make a political comeback through a revolution of some sort have begun to backfire. Thaksin has indeed painted himself into the corner.

This followed the British Embassy's decision to revoke the entry visa of Thaksin and his wife, Khunying Pojaman. A British notification was sent to all airlines yesterday indicating that the UK Border Agency has revoked the visas held by Thaksin and Pojaman.

"The UK visa contained in the passports of the individuals listed above are no longer valid for travel. Airlines are advised not to carry these passengers to the UK."

Where am I to go -- Bahamas, Bermuda, Chad or Transylvania, where true democracy welcomes me?

What a big twist in the ongoing political turmoil.

Thaksin was believed to be in China while the UK notification was issued. Thai politicians flew off to see him in China to draw up a new political plan and pick up their checks as Thaksin was declaring war to make a political comeback. He was also scheduled next to the Philippines.

We do not know yet while the UK government has decided to revoke Thaksin's and Pojaman's visas. But by doing so, the UK government has acknowleged the credibility of the Thai judiciary system and the legitimacy of the rule of law of the Kingdom of Thailand.

 Thaksin had been spinning his predicament to his political advantage. He pit himself against the elite by portraying himself as a force of Democracy and painting the the elite as anti-Democracy.

He denounced the Thai judiciary system and told the world that he was a victim of political persecution. But the fact was that he jumped bail and received a two-year jail sentence for his conflict interest in the Rachadapisek land deal. Pojaman also earlier received a jail term from the Criminal Court over tax evasion for her stock dealing.

His Saturday Night Live's phone-in show on November 1, 2008 to his 50,000 supporters in Bangkok's Rajaangala Stadium marked the point of no return. He openly challenged the Monarchy to distract the public opinion on the legal sentences pending over him.

The Law Society of Thailand has issued a statement to say that Thaksin acted in contempt of the Monarchy and the Judiciary in his phone-in speech.

 The Law Society of Thailand's President, Dej-udom Krairit said Thaksin's remark, "Nothing can bring me home except the mercy of His Majesty the King or the power of the people," was clearly intended to interfere with the royal power to grant pardons.

"The speech was aimed at forestalling criminal punishment. It was a hasty attempt to seek a royal pardon when the case [against Thaksin] was not yet completed," Dej-udom said.

He said Thaksin's speech was also intended to reduce the credibility of the judiciary and could be regarded as contempt of court.

"In my experience, I have rarely heard any convicted person publicly say he was 'forced to get jail', not even those sentenced to death," he said.

Thaksin and Pojaman sneaked out of the country in August before the Supreme Court's reading out the verdict of the Rachadapisek land deal.   

Special Branch police earlier this week concluded that Thaksin's speech contained no message that could be regarded as lese majeste, a criminal offence that carries a penalty of three to 15 years in prison. Yet the police were quick to nab Sulak Sivalaksa, the outspoken social critic on lese majeste charges on Friday.

Dark politics is underway to distort realities and win over world's and local public opinions by slandering the Monarchy in order to cover up Thaksin's entrapment in the rule of law. 

Earlier one of a senior editors of The Nation said in a newsroom that given the sound relations between Thailand and the UK, it would be impossible for Thaksin and Pojaman to get a political asylum status.

If the UK were to grant Thaksin and Pojama the political asylum status, it would mean that it does not recognise the legitimacy of the Thai judiciary system. The stake of bilateral relations is high.

The implications are far-reaching as the US, the European Union and other countries will have to adopt a similar stance of the UK when it comes to considering a political asylum request from the Thai couple.

With the UK's denial of Thaksin's and Pojaman's visas, the couple can continue to run but they will not be very certain where to go.

######################################################

Lesson of Thai leaders' code of conduct

The problem now with Thailand is that Thaksin Shinawatra does not concede. This is not Thai-like as judged by the political history.

In the past, all Thai leaders who lost power or the game of power play agreed to live in exile or stayed in Thailand in seclusion for the sake of the whole country rather than fighting till their supporters and their opponents died. Modern Thai political history is spared the bloodshed compared with other nations.

King Rama VII faced a military coup in 1932 that brought down Absolute Monarchy, which had been around in Thailand for more than 700 years. The King conceded his power because he did not want the Thais to kill each other.

When the King realised that he could not be part of managing the country in transition for the interest of the majority Thais, he abdicated from the throne in 1935. Then the coup-makers were more interested in power struggle for their own benefits. The King left for England and died there.

This was the King's sacrifice.

Field Marshal Pibul Songkram lost power in the political fight against Gen Sarit Thanarat. He fled to Japan and died in exile there. He conceded the defeat and never plotted to destroy Thailand, although he had a capacity to do so. Given his power, he could easily have marshalled a military faction in support of him for a political comeback.

This was Field Marshal Pibul's sacrifice.

Pridi Panomyong, the statesman, also lived in exile in China and later France after losing the political power. He conceded the defeat without blaming any one, at least openly. The stake of the country was higher than his own benefits.

This was Pridi's sacrifice.

Field Marshal Thanom Kittikajorn, after the 1973 bloody incident, stepped down from power. He was the dictator with the most powerful. But he agreed to resign after the bloody incident for the sake of the country.

He was even more power than Thaksin or any leaders because Thailand in the early 1970s was still very underdeveloped without any institutions. He could easily have eliminated all of his political opponents easily with his guns and tanks.

But Field Marshal Thanom lived in seclusion without trying to reclaim the political power or plan any plot against his country.

This was Field Marshal Thanom's sacrifice.

Gen Suchinda staged a coup and afterward he ran into the political crisis with the May 1992 tragedy. The military then under his regime was most powerful, unchallenged. But he agreed to step down for the sake of the country. He never plotted any ill plan against Thailand.

This was Gen Suchinda's sacrifice.

Thaksin Shinawatra is the first to have violated the Thai leadership's code of conduct. He would not concede a defeat even when it is over. He has been plotting ill plan against Thailand all along with his international and local PR machines.

He does not know how to make a sacrifice.

################################################### 


Read comment

comment 224
Ian date : 10/11/2008 time : 18.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

"Speaking to Reuter, he was quoted as saying that he would start talking longer and naming "names".

That should be interesting

Mean spirited....
Rad, you are thinking like a farang again, revenge is the strongest driving force with Asians.
comment 223
rad date : 10/11/2008 time : 16.15

What a mean spirited, spiteful, little man.

"Ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra says he has been pushed into the corner.

Speaking to Reuter, he was quoted as saying that he would start talking longer and naming "names".
comment 222
Ian date : 10/11/2008 time : 08.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Anthony, beautifully said, " a bureaucratic heartless process that is carried out by dry legal technicians "
I think if a bunch of terrorists one day blew up Whitehall the entire nation would celebrate.
comment 221
anthonyford date : 10/11/2008 time : 05.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anthonyford
BLANK

The English response to Taksin VISA application is typical of any country Governed by a Disciplined Westminster system of law. The decision is not made by the obviously powerful such as the Prime Minister or the Foreign Minister. Assisting Tesco access to the Thai market will have nothing to do with it!
The British, like the Kiwis and Aussies have a bureaucratic heartless process that is carried out by dry legal technicians and if the case does not stand up legally it will be thrown out as in this case. Special consideration is non-existent in any country Governed by a disciplined Westminster system of law. Government buildings in the UK are filled with battalions of these dry legal soldiers that take great delight in exercising as much power as what a Prime Minister or King would have in other countries.
Mentioning that Thaksin may have access to special consideration from the British or Australian legal system because of an FTA agreement or supporting some nationally favorable legislation is highly unlikely. Special consideration in transparent democracy such as Briton usually results in political suicide.
comment 220
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 23.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I wrote this below article in July 11, 2008. It was pretty close to the mark.

Sword of justice hangs by a thread over Thaksin
By Thanong Khanthong (July 11, 2008)

For Thaksin Shinawatra, the danger is clear and present. One by one, all of his
top lieutenants have been cut down. One more step, and the sword will fall on him.
Former election commissioners Vasana Puemlarp, Prinya Nakchadtree and Virachai
Naewboonnien have been sentenced to jail without probation by the Appeals Court,
which stands by the verdict of the lower court. They were found guilty of violating the
election law to facilitate the Thai Rak Thai Party winning the April 4, 2006 general
election. After the three election commissioners were sentenced to jail by the lower
Criminal Court (prior to the September 2006 military coup), Thaksin lamented, "We
do not have any influence in the Court".
This is a ringing truth. In spite of his massive wealth and political influence,
Thaksin cannot encroach into the judicial system, which is now holding him in check.
Three of his lawyers - Pichit Chuenban, Suphasri Sriswat and Thana Tansiri -
have been sentenced to jail for six months for contempt of court in connection with
their alleged attempt to bribe Supreme Court officials with Bt2 million stacked in a
snack bag. They represented Thaksin and his wife Pojaman as legal counsel in the
Ratchadaphisek land deal. The police are now investigating whether a criminal case
can be lodged against the three defendants and others. Thana handed the snack bag
containing Bt2 million to a Supreme Court official just before Thaksin and Pojaman
arrived on the premises to report to authorities after returning from a trip abroad.
Jakrapob Penkair, the former PM's Office minister, was another fall guy. He
was one of Thaksin's top political commandos. He was rewarded for his loyalty to
Thaksin with the Cabinet portfolio. But in the end, he had to pay the bigger price.
Jakrapob is now facing lese majeste charges. His political future is buried.
Yongyuth Tiyapairat, another militant in the Thaksin camp, also got a big
reward, the House Speaker position, for his election campaign role in the North. But
his triumph was short-lived. The Election Commission gave him a red card for alleged
election fraud. He had to resign from his position. On Tuesday, the Constitution Court
upheld the EC's decision to red card him. Yongyuth has not only lost his status as MP,
but he is also barred from politics for five years. The People Power Party could be
dissolved if it is linked to Yongyuth's election fraud.
The latest casualty is Noppadon Pattama, the foreign minister and former
lawyer and spokesman for Thaksin. Yesterday, he resigned from office under
tremendous political pressure. He mishandled the Preah Vihear affair, which could
have compromised Thailand's sovereignty. The Constitution Court found that the
communiqu  he signed with Cambodia and that was later approved by the Samak
Cabinet was in violation of the Constitution.
Although Noppadon has resigned, atonement for his sins does not end there.
The Democrat Party will still go ahead and launch impeachment proceedings against
2
him and Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej. The Senate is taking steps to impeach the
entire Samak government.
Thaksin's Ratchadaphisek land case is already on trial. The final verdict by the
Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Office will be handed
down some time in September of this year. If the court finds him guilty, Thaksin will
have to go to jail.
How can Thaksin escape this end game? If the judicial review proceeds at this
tempo, Thaksin will be dead meat in the next two-to-three months. Samak will buy
time by reshuffling the Cabinet in a big way and hang on until the government can
reshuffle the civil servants and the military in September before dissolving Parliament
as the last resort. But like Thaksin, Samak is facing a bag of court cases against him.
The Samak Cabinet can go at any moment.
The only way that this strong tide against Thaksin could be reversed would be
for a coup to be launched in his favour. But a coup is almost impossible to stage at
this point due to deep divisions in the military. Or Thaksin can choose to leave the
country before the Supreme Court delivers its verdict on the Ratchadaphisek land
deal.
But Thaksin has been trapped. The Supreme Court has denied his request to
travel abroad since the trial is now underway. September is a long way off for
Thaksin, who must come up with a counterattack strategy to prevail. At the moment,
Thaksin is hanging on by a thread.
comment 219
Thann26 date : 09/11/2008 time : 21.26

I personally owe K. Thanong a dinner and wld be glad that u can jump in as well....and may be Ian.
comment 218
Thann26 date : 09/11/2008 time : 21.22

Ian,

It is just a way to approach a lady. Thai style.
comment 217
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 21.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

"So far I have been active in K. Thanong and your blogs so I feel who I owe (dinner) to."

Heck, if I followed that logic I'd be a pauper


Goodnight
comment 216
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 21.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

and the Nation wouldn't even be able to sell our given space to let people advertise...eek eek eek.
comment 215
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 21.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

I look for free dinners ha ha ha and who said you have to pay for all....I've sure the ones wants to join will be happy to chip in.....

BTW Thann26, why should you own anything to anyone just by participating, it's just sharing opinions....without any participation, the blog site will be very very boring and I wouldn't be in it at all.
comment 214
Thann26 date : 09/11/2008 time : 21.00

I can't host a free dinner to all the bloggers. So far I have been active in K. Thanong and your blogs so I feel who I owe (dinner) to.

So what u do besides watchiing water rises and annoying K. Thanong?
comment 213
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 20.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Well Thann26, it depends on when I can get back and see that everything is taken care of...but I will definitely not miss a free dinner.......BTW, if we are to meet, why not make it a crowd, should be more fun no? I'll have my M26 ready.

Ian, if Yoon really throws a x'mas partly, I'll have the shirt ready for him....
comment 212
Thann26 date : 09/11/2008 time : 20.43

Will see.

I know about flood. Part of my job is on CSR as well. So u mean we will not hear u for a while. In another word, I wont see you see-saw wt K. Thanong for a while?
comment 211
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 20.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Who is talking behind my back....

Thann26, I'm not trying to postpond anything, I'm from Chaiyapum and if you don't believe what I've said about the flood....it's happening everywhere in e-san. Even our little dam burst this time round...I will take some pictures and show you guys when I get back or if I can get back. Most part of e-san is in trouble this year and most will not have the rice to eat and have to buy them including my family and you'll see a lot of the people from e-san heading down to bangkok or to other province looking for jobs or will not return home this year.
comment 210
Thann26 date : 09/11/2008 time : 20.35

wld love to see ys-lau. is he in this country?
comment 209
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 20.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Perhaps Thanong could persuade Yoon to throw an office Christmas party and invite all bloggers, that should be good for a laugh
comment 208
Thann26 date : 09/11/2008 time : 20.19

Ian,
I think a lot of people feel more comfortable to know one another thr the blogs and do not want to really come out in a true personality. Possible that it can happen as you have said. However, there arnt that many persons in this case. Only Lalida can pull out or keep posponding and if that happen for a while, I won't try.
comment 207
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 20.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Many moons ago we had our first and only Nation bloggers get together, it consisted of various Nation staff, windy and Veen and others, then myself, Tom Finn, Yuri and Narcissus. No one else could make it, either too far, or the wrong day etc.

Thanong, Thann, I think you will face the same problem.
comment 206
Thann26 date : 09/11/2008 time : 19.55

Let's make a deal. Dinner next month or when Somchai is out, whichever is earlier.

Lalida, where r u from?
comment 205
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 19.42

Lalida,
If you say so!
comment 204
Seven date : 09/11/2008 time : 19.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/truethai
Sao Grabrong Hian

Thanong, you should be the Prime Minister in Thailand. Then the Esaan and the Elites would both have a friend in you. And the rest of us would have an intelligent PM we could respect.
comment 203
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 19.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

Accurate informations to me is enhancement to my thoughts and to what I see. I will not simply make judgment on a person or a matter just because a majority of people tells me so. Even then, my judgment is only an opinion of mine and have no accuracy in it to others, they can agree or disagree.
comment 202
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 19.00

Lalida,
There is always truth. Opinions aside, that is why, when it is important, always look at as many sides as are available.

Everyone readily admits that Dr T was not perfect, but few know how exactly imperfect he really was.

There is a lot of information, even some that is unbias, that would be helpful to someone trying to decide where he actually stood, what he contributed and what he took away.

If ones mind is made up information is useless.
comment 201
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Kha....P. Thanong and I'm more confused after conversing with you...

Thann26,

It will have to be anytime next month as our home in e-san is flooded and so is the farm, all my fathers work it's under the water, so I have to go back to help out certain things, now just waiting for the green light as the road to our Town is blocked by landslide and the rain is still on..
comment 200
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian, most thai people are like Lalida -- innocent, good heart, yet confused.
comment 199
Thann26 date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.43

Lalida,

Let me know when u r free. I am sure K.Thanong will work on his schedule to fit wt yr. U will be surprise that I can talk on almost anything and leave politics to either one of u.
comment 198
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Seven , Thanong called me a "charming old man", I cannot return that compliment, he is not old enough, so all I can say is he's a nice guy.
If more Thais were like him Thailand would not be in its present mess.
comment 197
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

I know what you're talking about and I understand fully. what I'm saying is for the ones that saw the ghost, the opinion will not be the same as yours....

Again, it's a matter of opinion, we cannot justify who is right and who is wrong or the matter is correct or incorrect, we can only absorb or refuse to absorb the information thrown at us. Whatever we turn against or agree with, it's just our own thoughts and not a definition.
comment 196
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Seven, blogging is not good in a way because i have to reveal my identity.
comment 195
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

I didn't complaint, I was just making a point...
comment 194
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.36

Lalida,
If there are no ghosts, no matter what anyone believes it will not change that. Perception is not reality.

My point is, the third hand is a convenient excuse when one doesn't have or know the answer or doesn't want to face the question.
comment 193
Seven date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/truethai
Sao Grabrong Hian

He has a heart of an Esaan and a mind of an Elite. According to himself.
He talks about the Land of Transylvania and nobody gets it. Bloodsuckers, bloody funny...
He talks with bloggers.
He loves everything Ian writes, except politics.
How can one not love such a guy. I had better stop making fun of the Esaan...
comment 192
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

So why do you complain about the third hand all along?
comment 191
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

I don't have a 3rd hand , you do....
comment 190
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

For Rad and Massein,

Citizens of countries which do not have the Queen as their head of state sometimes have honours conferred upon them, in which case the awards are "honorary". In the case of knighthoods, the holders are entitled to place initials behind their name but not style themselves "Sir". Examples of foreigners with honorary knighthoods are Billy Graham, Riley Bechtel, Bill Gates, Bob Geldof, Bono, and Rudolph Giuliani, while Arsène Wenger and Gérard Houllier are honorary OBEs. Honorary knighthoods arise from Orders of Chivalry rather than as Knights Bachelor as the latter confers no postnominal letters.

If you want the full article read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_honours_system

Massein, I assume you were joking about Thaksin?
comment 189
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Lalida, you can have dinner with us, provided that you don't bring along third hand.
comment 188
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Thanks Thann26,

I rather have a peaceful dinner with you guys without politics...he he he..
comment 187
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 18.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

you are doing exactly what K. Thanong did. I don't see the point of answering something that you may already know, what is it that one is trying to prove?

If you've been following the political arena in this country and still don't know what's this 3rd hand is all about or people talked about, then please refer back to al the information you can find on the web site....

I also mentioned, If you believe there's ghost in this world, then there is. If not, it never exist...
comment 186
Thann26 date : 09/11/2008 time : 17.55

Khun Thanong and K. Lalida,

We are far from being PAD and UDD (the red shirt...whatever they r called). Let me host you two for the dinner and we can have an intellectual debate. Both of your comments are very educational for me but I just cant keep up by minutes. I had just came back from 5 k jog at Suan Lum and now got lost in the topics. Nice dinner and wines will do.
comment 185
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 17.51

Lalida,
I say what if there are only two, you say whatever. I ask who and you make small of the issue, is it important or not? If not what was the point in the first place?

Third hands are like ghosts or excuses, this is the same question Thanong asked Ian.

Yet the answer is still begging?
comment 184
massein date : 09/11/2008 time : 17.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

Mr. T is a British Baron, does that make him a member of British royal family
comment 183
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 17.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

I have said it, who is it is not an issue but rather what it did...and if you want to find out. There's a lot of web site to give you that information, I'm the wrong person you want to ask cos I didn't care much about it...
comment 182
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 17.24

Lalida,
Well, who is it then?
comment 181
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 17.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

One see it there is, one don't see it, there isn't..
comment 180
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 17.15

Lalida,
What if there were no third hand?
comment 179
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 17.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Phee",

Talk to me and lead me and I'll buy dinner for anyone who wants to join...

Once again I express my take point by point…

1)I can understand everything you say but I cannot feel the same way as you do the way you express it or explaining it.

2)It’s not important to indicate who the third hand is but more to the act of the third hand, one should explain or indicate if he sees the other side is wrong by pointing to facts.

3)The root…one wants to defeat an army, one must first capture the General. It is very clear to all of us the it’s the Elite, Politicians (Including Thaksin), military, oppositions and PAD are using our innocent monarchy as their Political tools, why only dealt with the middle of the stream and not the start of the division of the stream?

4)Is it really true that right in our face, it is democracy what the Elite, Oppositions, Military and the PADs are fighting for? If it’s the case why are they going against the elected government trying every way to bring it down? Because of Thaksin? I was told a few times in this blog site if I just rely on one guy to take care of our country, it will be the end of Thailand. I now ask, is it not true that all arrows are only pointing in one direction and one person? Where does it end us? If we refuse to see and deal with the matter in front of us but just using all our might to make sure this particular guy is dead and gone, what future do we have?
comment 178
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 17.01

Ian,
Isn't Bill Gates an honorary knight?
comment 177
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

LALIDA, i AM NOT SHUTTING A DOOR ON YOUR FACE. bUT tHANN IS GOING TO TAKE US OUT FOR DINNER.
comment 176
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, easy answer, firstly he is not a British subject (part of the knighthood ceremony is swearing alleigance to the crown), secondly he has done nothing to deserve it.

You might find this link informative

http://www.royalinsight.gov.uk/output/Page4878.asp
comment 175
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.28

Lalida,
Not true, you made an emotional statement which has no response. So calm, get back to your reasoned questions.
comment 174
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Thanong,

I waited a whole day just to let you lead me to a direction and show me what I said is wrong.

Rad,

It is not about emotion and I'm not the one that shut the door, K. Thanong shut the door in my face.
comment 173
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.24

Ian,
I believe that you have grossly underestimated the problem if you think a minor title would appease an ego the size of Mars.
comment 172
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian, why didn't UK government award mr T the Baron title first?
comment 171
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.18

Thanong,
There has been a US communist party as long as I can remember, we have KKK, we, like the UK have a party for everything. We persecuted everybody as well, it is an equal opportunity country.
comment 170
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I think one problem with the monarchy in Thailand is there is no graduation, one is either King or commoner. In England we have Lords, Dukes, Earls, Barons and Counts. They can be inherited or created. I think this is possibly the reason why the king (I think it was the King), introduced this system of "white uniforms", it filled a gap. Thailand has Senators and Privy councillors, but they are still basically commoners. Our ex PM usually get a Knighthood of some sort, Thatcher became Baroness Thatcher.
Thaksin became PM, he could go no further, frustrating for a man of pride and ambition
Now if your King could have made him a Baron I'm sure he would have been much more satisfied.
comment 169
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.16

Lalida, c160
Don't close the door to information with emotion, push it aside and process what is offered, then apply your emotion, in this recipe emotion must be added just before serving, to early and you spoil the soup.
comment 168
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

But Lalida, Thann is taking us out for dinner. Would you like to go?
comment 167
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I am just not sure about this because I have heard that even US politics is not ready for communist ideas. Communists were persecuted in the past.
comment 166
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Kha....I say no more...
comment 165
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Sorry, Lalida. I don't mean to be impolite. But I have stated my case.
comment 164
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.11

Yes they do. point?
comment 163
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.07
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

No Thanong,

I am not satify with this answer P'
comment 162
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.07
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Rad, do you know whether they allow people to set up a Communist Party in the United States? Can you answer this question?
comment 161
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.07

Thanong,
Where I come they call that "No balls no babies"

That is why Thai politics is no different than any other.

Don't have the confidence? work the angles.
comment 160
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

I really don't see why you people wants to drag our monarchy into it....They've never said a word or did anything to infulence any side or any of you. It is you people and the ones that I mentioned keep pulling them in into the scene....
comment 159
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Let's forget about it, Lalida.
comment 158
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

C153 Thanong,

What's it got to do with what I said on point one, I wasn't talking about threat?
comment 157
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I want to see a political party following your proposal.
comment 156
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 16.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

"From my perspective, this entire exercise has been about the struggle between those supporting the constitutional monarchy and those that want an entirely elected government."

I am happy you say that. We have no objection. Then the political parties can go ahead to draw up in their political platform that they want an entirely elected government without Monarchy. I think we are ready for that. No problem. Just say it. Rather than get elected on one agenda, but go on to implement another agenda.
comment 155
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Second,

The Third hand, it is very clear that there's certain restriction that we can't express what we want to say, as a professional and elite as you are. I don't understand your behavior of pressing Ian to spell out who you and I already know instead of pointing us to a direction that we might be wrong about this third hand.
comment 154
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.55

Thanong,
I was quoting Ian, the part about he had to go.

The threat was mine, I started the thought with rival and changed it to threat.

The good/bad scenaro doesn't make sense to me. So I either need an explanation or more specific example.

To date your examples of good in this situation has been the monarchy, so i would not have thought an example would have been necesary.

From my perspective, this entire exercise has been about the struggle between those supporting the constitutional monarchy and those that want an entirely elected government.
comment 153
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Well, i have shown you the example of Rad's using the word Threat in one dimension, whereas I have two dimensions.
comment 152
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

I can understand ones culture but I can never have the same feeling as my own.

K.Thanong,

I understand you are much much more senior in our society and I should not converse with you in such a way but if I don't speak out, I can't go to sleep at all.....Blame the way I was brought up he he..
comment 151
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

To make it simple and short. you put a shield in front of yourself against the foreigners saying "you are a Thai, you do not understand Thai".
comment 150
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

OK, it's your personal observation. I can't do anything about it.
comment 149
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

OK...I'll start one by one.

First understanding and feeling for a country.

I can understand what's going on in UK if I live there long enough, I can understand their acceptence of how their fellowmen make fun of their Royals. I can understand why English people are more arrogant than the Americans.

BUT I will never feel what they can feel about their Royals. I only see them make fun of them and then when their Royals appear, they all gether around cheering at the palace.

If something happen to their country just like us, I wouldn't know how they feel about it but I can understand what is going on.
comment 148
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Thann: If you invite Lalida and me for dinner with you, I am afraid you might steal my Lalida for yourself.
comment 147
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

You write one sentence each to express your opinion and I shall guide you.
comment 146
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Lalida, you write too long and in the process you confuse yourself.
comment 145
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Yes and I agree....I'm following your steps, please carry on....
comment 144
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Rad said Mr T is a threat to the Monarchy and that's why he has to go. I am not sure whether Rad has thought thoroughly about the word "threat".

There is a good threat and a bad threat. I am a CEO. Rad is chief finance officer and is smarter and better and work harder than me. Rad is a "good threat" to my CEO. I don't mind that.

But if Rad is a bad chief finance officer, who cooks the book, like the one at WorldCom but is trying to undermine my CEO, then it is a "bad threat." Then it is another story.

You know what I mean?
comment 143
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

I might be confused over intellectual debates but not what I see with my own eyes.
comment 142
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

rad is this what you are hinting at, from Time magazine:

"The world press was mildly atwitter, last week, over reports that the long expected transformation of President Ahmed Bey Zogu of Albania into a King will shortly be accomplished. Albanians, filthy, wretched, impoverished, fly-bitten, famine starved and earthquake stricken were not much interested. They know that Ahmed Bey Zogu is President because he is also Chief of the most potent of feudal Albanian tribes. There is no one to stop him from calling himself "King," "Sultan," "Tsar," "Shah," "Mogul," "Mikado," "Inca," "Cazique," "Way-wode," "Vaivode" or even "Tycoon."

Oh yes the dateline. 1928
comment 141
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I am sorry Lalida, I have devoted a lot of time to give you the information and perspective. But you still are confused.
comment 140
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Mind you K. Thanong, I'm including "T" in the catagory of elite and politicians. So don't say I side with him.
comment 139
Thann26 date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.19

Would love to invite u two over dinner. Must be a great chat. 5 5 5 !!
comment 138
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Thanong,

Lead the way and point me wrong...
comment 137
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I am not blunt, but you're not being reasonable.
comment 136
rad date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.17

Ian,
"Thaksin, directly or indirectly, was a rival to these users of the King's power, that was why he had to go. Not because he was corrupt, but because he had become a threat to those who would use the King's power to their own ends."

Based on my "speculation" Dr T is a threat to the monarchy. The people you refer to are the opposites in threat level to of the PPP.

Dr T doesn't want to be PM, I believe he is kooking to a higher calling.
comment 135
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Thanong,

If you are blunt on this issue, I say no more...
comment 134
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 15.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Lalida, I can't make a sense of what you're talking about. Let's forget it.
comment 133
Thann26 date : 09/11/2008 time : 14.55

Khun Thanong,

So the opera u said u went was the Democrat Fund raisng party?

On Thaksin's UK visa revocation, isnt this also happened to Matha Steward? ,,,and any mention on Banapot and Kanchanapa? Shdnt they also been included if the UK did to both Thaksin and his wife ? His wife shd be in the same status and consideration as another two. I can understand if they want to isolate Thaksin.
comment 132
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 13.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, if I can enlarge on Lalida's comment, I think the Thais actually damage the King's image by being overly protective of it. With open comment, one can refute and defend, with secret comments there is no real defense.
To take what I hope is a safe example, if I claimed that a powerful person has red hair (and in fact it was black), you could not only deny this but prove it. If however, I spread a secret rumour that this powerful person has red hair, and you are forbidden to discuss this person, how can you defend him?
comment 131
FOS date : 09/11/2008 time : 13.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

Reading the debate between you and Ian, I’m afraid I have to agree with Ian. This is the problem with our elite; they refuse to see what is truth and the facts in front of them. You blindly protect them with the stand of being a Thai.

I can agree with you when you say to Ian he cannot feel what you feel because he’s not a Thai but I will not agree with you when you say he wouldn’t be able to understand because he’s not a Thai. Simple logic, when 2 people start to argue with each other, who is in the wrong and who is in the right? The two involved will never get the answer but the spectator can if he base facts and logic…

Ian mentioned the third hand, you and I know who he’s talking about but you refuse to accept it’s a fact. You also mentioned about 100’s of web site with LM massages. True I’ve read some of it too. In #C56, you gave me an analogy of the Mekong River. I agreed and if anyone wanted to take action on those sites, should it not be done as you mentioned in #C56? Where is this Mekong River that you refuse to accept? It’s the elite, the politicians, the military, the PAD, is it not a fact and truth? Are they not using our innocent Royals as their political tools, they are the real ones that led to all the LM massages not the rural or any of those in front of the monitor, the stupid rural can’t even read Thanong and the ones in front of the monitor is just spitting rubbish influence by those I’ve mentioned. The rural only understand
Democracy means a majority of wishes and that’s all they know, other than that they know nothing nor they want to know.
comment 130
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 13.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I have just updated by blog based on my speculation.
comment 129
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 12.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, that's ok "lung", uncle, can be any age, even a teenager can be an uncle. But in the Philippines many of my friends call me "Lolo", I'm not so happy with this, it means Grandad.
In Malaysia everyone calls me "uncle" (in English), even shop assistants.
So in Thai, which would you prefer, to be called uncle or older brother (Pi I think)? Is one more respectful than the other?
comment 128
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 11.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I am more than 20 years younger than you, but at the office they call me LUNG now.
comment 127
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 11.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, I think this is a cultural difference that also exists in America.

i will explain, in Asian cultures, not just Thai, old people are treated with respect, not just within the family but by most of society. It is no disgrace to be old.

In the West it is different, the old are often pushed to one side and dismissed as being out of touch. Unfortunately indeed, they often are out of touch. Western women will spend fortunes on face lifts, they cannot grow old gracefully.

So a simple rule, never call a westerner "old" to his/her face, it has different connotations to what it has in Asia.

P.S. I can call myself old, you can't
comment 126
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 10.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

But I have never claimed to have any knowledge of the British culture. I used to spend almost five years in the United States. If I don't know, I say I don't know. If I know, I say I know.
comment 125
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 10.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, where I come from " very charming old man" is deemed a "left handed" compliment
But I will not be offended at your ignorance of some aspects of British culture
comment 124
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 10.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

You see, Ian, you're excellent when you don't write about politics. You can be a very charming old man with your general knowledge.
comment 123
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 10.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, in one sense Buddha was a farang, Europeans and Indians have a common ancestry, we belong to the IndoEuropean family. many light skinned Indians in England can easily pass themselves off as native British.
Apart from my resemblance to the current Dalai Lama, I have been told by many Thais that I have Buddha's ears
Apparently I have large ear lobes.

The statues in Afghanistan were carved alongside the "Great silk Road", a route which Alexander also followed. No doubt if Egypt ever goes fundamentalist we will see the same fate befall the Sphinx.

You asked earlier for an English opinion on the reasons for revoking Thaksin's visa. please see my latest blog for my thoughts on this topic.
comment 122
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 10.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Some how they just did not know how to make stand-alone Buddha Statues. Alexander the GReat's artisans taught them how to carve out stand-alone Buddha Statues. This is the benefit of cultural imperialism. The Emerald Buddha in Bangkok was also carved out with influence from Alexander's artisans. You know when I closely look at the face of the Emerald Buddha, I see the face of a Farang.
comment 121
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Do you know why Buddha statues in Pakistan and Afganistan were carved in mountains?
comment 120
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

OK, Ian, no hard feeling now. I don't mean to nail you. But some times we need to be very specific with our point to get real understanding.
comment 119
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

" Ian, don't make opinions from your feeling or speculation. "

I thought that was what an opinion was?
comment 118
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

What's wrong with the hidden hand if it is for good?

But Monarchy does not have power or apparatus.

The power of this country now lies in police, politicians (parliament), Government, bureaucracy, military, judiciary, public prosecutors.

The King does not have power. He only has the power of moral suasion.

Do you think the folks there are paying heed to the King's call for unity and rule of law? If they follow him, we would not have this current mess.

So Ian, don't make opinions from your feeling or speculation.
comment 117
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, I am British not American, but I have to claim the 5th amendment. Sorry you are dragging me into dangerous waters, perhaps that is your intention.
I will say no more, talk to someone else.
comment 116
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

You see, in the end it is just your speculation, your own feeling, which is not based on facts.
comment 115
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, I do not know, I assume they exist, I assume that is one of the roles of the Privy council.
People (bloggers), often refer to the hidden hands, Thaksin is seen as the not very hidden hand behind the PPP. Who are the hidden hands on the other side, you probably know better than me, but I feel they exist.
comment 114
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Tell me the name of court advisors, who are giving bad advice to our King. Tell me what kind of privileges or interests they are enjoying. Tell me how Mr T can remove their privileges or interests.

Spell out the facts. I am to know.
comment 113
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.30
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

"Now he can no longer do this, his information about Thailand is filtered by his court and advisors, and there lies danger, such information can be filtered and slanted to support a particular objective."

I am not putting words in your mouth. You have to clarify this.
comment 112
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Don't make things up Ian.
comment 111
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Now you are putting words in my mouth, when have I ever doubted his intelligence. He has mastered many skills in his life, from the arts to the sciences.
comment 110
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

PAD and Military are not court advisors.
comment 109
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Don't go side way Ian. You said court and advisors are misleading Kig. Name them to me.
comment 108
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Are not the PAD claiming their actions are in support of the King? Was not the last coup claimed by the military to be in support of the King?
comment 107
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

You're suggesting that our King has a soft ear now. This information is incorrect. He knows everything. And he is more intelligent than you think.

Give me the name of the advisors now!
comment 106
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, have I made it clear I respect you King and monarchy, what I cannot respect are those who use the King's good name in an attempt to support their own ambitions.
comment 105
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Then name the king's advisors, who filter him with disinformation.
comment 104
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, it is clear from your multiple responses that this is an emotionally sensitive topic for you. It is equivalent to discussing Mohammed with a Moslem, if you want to stay friends with the Moslem you avoid the topic.
Would it offend you if I compared your King to our Churchill, a man who in Britain's darkest hour led us from defeat to victory. A man who personified the British bulldog spirit. Yet that spirit was no longer appropriate after the war, we kicked him out (with many honours), and replaced him with Attlee, a man of the common people.
Your king has been a great man, he has been a force for stability during decades of turmoil. Yet he is now an old man, 8 years older than me. It is a very different world from when he first took the throne, he is an old man surrounded by a group of old men as advisors.
When he was fit and vigorous he walked out amongst his people, he spoke to them, understood their problems. Now he can no longer do this, his information about Thailand is filtered by his court and advisors, and there lies danger, such information can be filtered and slanted to support a particular objective.
Your king has power far beyond that of a normal constitutional monarch, it is a power given to him not by decree but by the love and loyalty that his people have for him.
I see this power increasingly usurped by others in his name and used to their own ends.
Thaksin, directly or indirectly, was a rival to these users of the King's power, that was why he had to go. Not because he was corrupt, but because he had become a threat to those who would use the King's power to their own ends.
comment 103
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

The police and the local mafias are sucking the blood of the ordinary Thais because they are closest to the ordinary Thais' life. Everywhere there are police and local mafias. Why don't we have web sites on them?

Why do we have more negative web sites on Monarchy -- when this symbolic institution does not oppress the ordinary Thais or collect tax from them or take any advantage from them -- than on police and local mafias?

Naturally, it is appealing to discuss Monarchy because it is a big target. But if you were to write about our Monarchy, you'll realise that you don't know about this subject good enough to appreciate it. Yes, there are strengths and there are weaknesses.
But to me, there are more strengths.
comment 102
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian, you don't have respect for our Monarchy. But when I write some sensitive remark about you, you jump.
comment 101
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 09.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Since the web sites on lese majeste comes out in hundreds, the ICT people try to go after them and close them because they feel uncomfortable. But the police, as I said, turn a blind eye. But there is never an order from Monarchy to suppress these web sites. Let them come out; let them talk.

You know the Taliban some years alot use dynamites to explode Buddha Statues of more than 1,000 years in Afganistan. They did not appreciate Buddha Statues carved in the mountains. In one minutes, 1,000 years of civilisation are gone.

So be it. If they don't appreciate the ancient treasure, it's OK. So be it.

Ian, you know that it is easy to destroy, but it is more difficult to create or to maintain.
comment 100
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

If one were to remove Monarchy, the Military, the Bangkok Middle Class, the PAD out of the equation, then we would have true Democracy because Mr T, the People Power Party and the Rural Voters are doing a fine job in moving us toward true Democracy.

This is a big joke that is going on around in most of the web sites and foreign media -- I don't want to name them. It's not only a joke; it's stupid.

Well, your UK government has just given you the answer, hasn't it?
comment 99
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I write from facts, from framework. But you just air out your convenient opinions without facts or framework. And then you say you see the forest and trees clearer than me.
comment 98
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

He has done so many good things for Thailand for the past 60 years, and the Thais don't appreciate him? Well, so be it.

Ian, don't use your own temperament to judge our Monarch. You don't understand or appreciate our Monarchy. That's fine. But you should not call him a businessman.
comment 97
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.40
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

With all the websites about lese majeste, the police keep a blind eye on them. As I have written, police is part of the political body.

But we tolerate these web sites. Let them speak, let them talk, let them air out their opinion, let them cite their lofty democracy goals. If the Thais don't want Monarchy, then it's OK. There have never been any order issued from Monarchy to suppress these web sites, part of the dark conspiracy.

So the debate is already open.
comment 96
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Tell me what is the forest, what is the tree?
comment 95
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

The political spinning now blames Monarchy/Military/Elite/PAD/Bangkok Middle Class/Democrat as the obstacle to Democracy.

The true representatives of Democracy are Thaksin Shinawatra/People Power/the rural Thais.
comment 94
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I am happy to discuss questions that Farang sees clearer than me. Let's point it out.
comment 93
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian, as a British, you should have enlightened us first about UK decision instead of asking me as a Thai to speculate about your government's decision. Because you think you know better.
comment 92
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Do you know that there are thousands of websites now spewing lese majeste messages?
comment 91
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.30
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Well, didn't I write in #88 that the Monarchy is the strength of Thailand?
comment 90
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I admire Socrates, perhaps that explains something?
comment 89
Ian date : 09/11/2008 time : 08.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, comment 77, I think you misunderstood my question in 59. Perhaps I worded it badly. What I was asking you, is as a Thai, how do you see the most likely next moves of Thaksin now he is unable to return to England?

Moving on, in your comment 82, you name 3 sources which can cause problems, because you are a Thai, you cannot, or will not, accept that there is a fourth problem. I have hinted at it many times, so has others, Outsider clearly hints at it in his comment 79.
Until this situation can be openly discussed, things will not change.
Sometimes Thanong you can be too close to the trees to see the forest.
There are times when as a Farang I would suggest that we can see things clearer than you, our thinking is not clouded by emotion and indoctrination.
It is like religion, a critical analysis of a religion is often best from a non believer. A believer cannot stand back and be impartial.
comment 88
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 01.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Brhams is like Aristotle, while Beethoven is like Plato. Plato holds that Beauty is up there in heaven in the Form. Aristotle argues that Beauty is here on the Earth. Beethoven's Violin Concerto brings us to realise the highest level of Beauty that is heaven-like. But Brahms gives us the meaning of Beauty on this earth through his violin concerto.

By the way, Plato is pretty upset with Democracy, having witnessed several failures. In the end, he concludes that the best form of government is one of Philosopher King.

We in Thailand now has a Philosopher King, but I wonder how many of us understands this.
comment 87
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 01.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Have you ever tried listening to Brahms music by imagining that an Eagle, which has the heart of the deep Ocean, is flying through the passages of the music score -- what it sees, what it feels, what it expects, what it yearns for, etc. I guess, you might enjoy the music more through this characteristic imagination.
comment 86
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 01.40
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

In Brahms music, we can agree or disagree. It's OK because it is arts. It does not affect the life of the people. But in politics, if we get it wrong, it affects the whole country, the whole generation, the future of the country. So the stake is much higher.

Personally, I see Brahms, like Schumann said, like an Eagle. He was indeed a lonely Eagle, who flew to the highest point to test his limit. To do that, you must be lonely as an artist. You can't take anybody with you. You have to explore it yourself and then recount your experience of the altitude.

Then Brahms is like a deep Ocean to me, with fierce undercurrents below. His music yearns for something passionately but unfulfilled. Imagine you crave for something badly, but you never get it. It is torturous. But to Brahms, it is sweet torture, after some tumultous passages there always emerge sunlight and rainbow.

My favourite Brahms piece is Violin Sonata No 1 in G major for now -- very compressed, sad, romantic and adventurous!
comment 85
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 01.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

But the details of what are happening during those four years they never know.
comment 84
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 01.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

The standard argument about Thailand that I have mostly heard so far is this:
You have to honour Democracy by accepting the outcome of the election. If you don't like the Government, wait for four years and vote them out.

Well, they are thinking that Thailand is the United States.
comment 83
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 01.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Now after three years, we know the true colours of most members of the Thai society and system. We know our dark side. We know our evils.

In Christian theology, Evil is good because it shows that there is Good.

Absolute Evil is good in a way because it imples that there is Absolute Good.

If Thailand learns about this Good versus Evil, then it will benefit from the current political turmoil. Like most other lessons, you have to pay the price before you learn something.
comment 82
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 01.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

As I have written again and again, the problem with the Thai society and political system has to do with 1. the politicians, 2. the police, 3. the bureaucrats. When they combine forces, they represent the source of evil. The combination of the politicians (political power), the police (rule of law) bureaucrats (govt machinery for functioning) leads to a monopoly of Democracy at the electoral process. During the governing process, or well after the election, we no longer talk about democracy but we talk about rule of law. There is no rule of law in Thailand because the police and bureaucrats have become a part of the political body. This is Thailand's greatest problem -- the lack of rule of law; not the lack of Democracy.

instead of looking at the causes of Thailand's problems, I only read our bloggers or comments from other foreign media focusing on the military/the establishment or the PAD as the problem when they are the effects, not the causes.

If the causes are good, then we won't see the military or the PAD coming out, though all are to blame for the current mess.

This is my thesis. And I have not seen any other pieces that point to this weakness of the Thai system. They only conveniently focus on the military and PAD.

Khun Lalida, are you reading me?
comment 81
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 00.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

And I shall also dispute your comment that "Time will only tell who will win but one thing is clear no matter who does the Thai people will be the losers."
The Thai people are not losers. They will gain from this experience of the political turmoil over the past three years, not in the sense of winners. We never win, we only gain a better light, a better undertanding to improve our future.
I'll tell you this episode at least bring out the dark side of Thailand. It is good in a way that the crisis has been going on for three years so that we know which parts of the society or the political system are the liabilities.
comment 80
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 00.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

To Outsiders,
Then I would like to read comments from Farang that really understands the Thai situation. So far I have read very few pieces that truly understand the Thai situation. Very few indeed!
comment 79
Outsider date : 09/11/2008 time : 00.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/outsider

K Thanong, you keep harping on the fact that this situation is somehow unique and unusual to Thailand and farangs just don't understand. You as a Thai journalist have written excellent articles on the world economic situation and China's role in the world economy I strongly doubt if anyone disagrees with you because you are a Thai but would disagree with you as a journalist and on the basis of your facts. It is possible for someone to understand another culture maybe even more than you might be prepared to admit. You have mentioned that Brahms is one your favorite composers as he is one of mine obviously we both understand his music, yet we are from very different backgrounds and cultures. This is the same for cultures some people are more perceptive and can appreciate other cultures than others. The easiest thing to do is to call the other party ignorant of a culture you will often be surprised as to what people know. The current situation is not about democracy and can never be as long as the institutions that support a democracy a legal and social framework are weak. It took the major western countries over 200 years to achieve their current democracies at the cost of countless lives even then they are imperfect. The notion that somehow democracy can be exported all over the world is utter nonsense as well. I will now walk a very thin line and come out and say that the current situation in Thailand is at its base, a clash between two demagogues one entrenched and established for over 2 generations and the other brash and ambitious who wants to re engineer Thai society. Their fight is tearing at the very fabric of Thai society and is getting dirtier and dirtier as it goes on sucking more people into the fray. You have called on one to adhere to the leaders code of conduct that you as I know he won't. Time will only tell who will win but one thing is clear no matter who does the Thai people will be the losers.
comment 78
Thanong date : 09/11/2008 time : 00.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Let's read my blog update.
comment 77
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 22.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Referring to #59, I wonder why Ian, the Englishman, is posting the question to me this time since it is the UK government which has cancelled Mr T's visa. Ian should know better than me about the UK's decision or motivation.
comment 76
littlefish date : 08/11/2008 time : 20.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Breakthrough

C67: You are absolutely on the spot.

And you are right, he did it to himself this time. I assume the first time he cancelled his call-in, was because the British had something to do with it. So he had to go to HK and called from there. The British government is smart just get him out of the way without having to be bothered by the Thais.

Sometimes, it is hard to see ownself and admit any wrong doing. I guess, now, we will be seeing the true nature of his. If he is a man of character and cares for a peacefulness of his country. Then he will concede, and lives his life in harmony afterward.
comment 75
Ian date : 08/11/2008 time : 19.30
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Hm, I wonder what opera, which would be most appropriate, Swan Lake, or Act III of Die Walküre by Richard Wagner?
comment 74
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 19.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Thanks Thanong so I don't have to reply to Ian
comment 73
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 19.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I am going for an Opera now. Will be back later at night time to update the blog. Will answer Ian's #59. Stay tuned if you want to participate in the blog discussion with me.
comment 72
Ian date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

lalida, perhaps you would care to repeat my comment 59, I might get an answer then
comment 71
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

I don't blame you of not being able to answer my question as you only see a portion of it..
comment 70
rad date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.39

Lalida,
I don't think I can answer that one.

I see children leaving for school in BKK and never returning, I see a 78 year old woman taking a job for the first time in her life to pay her obligations, I see new houses and trucks, I see better highways and higher prices, I see terrible schools systems, I see government officials, lording over fellow citizens, I see corrupt business people ripping off fellow citizens, so not an easy question.
comment 69
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

"But Thaksin is fighting to get his Bt74 billion back by plotting against his country. If he were to resign in 2006, he would have saved his honour and assets."

True and is also understandable to me....in this century when people are push to a cornor, thier instinct tells them to fight back. We can learn from history but we must also justify the past and present.
comment 68
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Felix,

IMO the English wants to wash its hand clean….Why do you think they did it when he’s out of the country? My opinion is they don’t want to send him back to Thailand and let him chose his own destination. They also don’t want to jeopardize the relationship with this country by granting him asylum if he did applied or about to applied, so the best way is don’t let him come back. Whichever way you look at it, England do not want the trouble of getting involve with our present crisis. Just look at the way how it was done, no public announcement from the UK officials or any means of it.
comment 67
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

You know what I mean now? Regarding the code of conduct of leaders, I just make it up from looking at the pattern of history.

Now King Rama VII did nothing wrong. He was an honest king. He inherited the Chakri Dynasty for 150 years. The burden was on his shoulder alone with the Depression swirling around.

But when the coup makers, who were all his subjects and who got government scholarships to study abroad, pointed the gun at him to bring him down from power, he conceded because he did not want the Thais to kill Thais. Four years later, he abdicated from the throne because he could not have an input in bringing about transition of true democracy to the Thai people, to whom he wrote a blank cheque of his power.

He made a great sacrifice and left the country for England never to return. During his time in England, he never plotted a comeback.

The assets he inherited from the Chakri Dynasty were one million times greater than Thaksin's Bt74 billion being frozen in the Thai bank accounts now.

For all the land belonged to the King. That's why we call the Thai King as chao phaen din, or Great Owner of the Land. The King literally owned all the land of Siam, the mountains, the rivers, the sea, Phuket, Samui and Chiang Mai.

But the King let go his assets for the sake of the country. He lived a simple life in English rural.

You can see that this is a great heart of a Thai King, with Buddhist temperament, forgiveness and detachment from worldly belongings.

But Thaksin is fighting to get his Bt74 billion back by plotting against his country. If he were to resign in 2006, he would have saved his honour and assets. But not now.

You can see that the morality side of this Thai political history.

As I have said you have to understand the cultural context and political context in order to have sound opinions and arguments.

Khun Chris, are you convinced now with my point? Farang may have their points; but I as a Thai am entitled to my point too.
comment 66
FelixQui date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

And now I'm wondering, like Ian, if he's been kicked out of his chosen exile, what will Taksin do next? If he is indeed meeting up with current members of parliament in the Philippines, what will be on their agenda?

And now that it appears the report about the visas is true, the next thing I'm keen to know is: which British official made the decision to cancel such high profile visas? And why? And why now? It's all very interesting. I hope it doesn't become too interesting.
comment 65
Chris-TH date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Chris-TH

K. Thanong:
"One of the reasons that Mr T can't survive in Thailand because he is trying to spin wrong into right and right into wrong. This is something Bangkok won't allow him to get a way with it."

I guess that depend on your definitions of right and wrong.
I fully agree with the fact that Bangkok wont allow it. But then one day Bangkok might realize that when all their "servs" have left, then Bangkok is not bigger than Chiang Mai (unlless the fill up the city with cheap labor from Myanmar).
comment 64
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Agreed and logical...
comment 63
FelixQui date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Thanong,
Even when I most strongly disagree with you, you do come across as a person who is sincere and "who loves his country honestly."
I also think that most of the PAD supporters are also sincere and truly love their country, but I'm not so sure that that is true of Chamlong and the other PAD leaders. Their behaviour and speech, in light of their education and knowledge, does not suggest that to me. If they are acting sincerely, then I think they are unfortunately also seriously wrong, and their inflexible determination, outside of the democratic process, to force their opinions on an entire nation is wrong.
I've never thought that Taksin loved anyone but Taksin ever since he first solved Bangkok's traffic problems in 6 months by posing on the pillion of a motorcycle.
comment 62
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Lalida:
From the outset, the Coup that most of you hate, including YS-lai and Ian, was staged against our beloved King Rama VII in 1932. Without the coup, there would not be Democracy.

So we were all programmed to believe that the 1932 Military Coup was a good coup because it brought an end to the archaic Absolute Monarch and brought about Democracy.

Democracy never comes from the sky. It all has to start from a Coup because the world did not begin with Democracy.

But the problem is that we do not have that first 1932 coup, which was the only GOOD Coup, alone. We have had 16-17 coups, I guess, afterward. Now our mindset is now programmed with the beliefs that all coups afterward are bad because they are against Democracy. So only the first coup is good because it brought about Democracy, the rest of the coups, which were staged similarly to the first coups, were bad.
comment 61
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 18.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

C57 Rad,

OK you've got away with that, now tell me when the changes of life for the rural start and ended?
comment 60
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

#C56,

I totally agree....people are just going round in circles now case by case and not looking into the root of it.
comment 59
Ian date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, so what is your take on this visa situation, has Thaksin lost his diplomatic visa, his tourist visa, or both? One thing is clear, the UK has neatly sidestepped the Thai demand to extradite him, indeed he is now a "loose cannon" wandering around the world, I would think this is worse for the Thai government, at least in England he had to behave himself.
He can easily sell up and move his money out of England, although I expect he will leave his houses and some money there for his children to use.
So as I see it the Thai government has won a rather Phyrric victory. There is no longer any restraints on Thaksin's activities.
comment 58
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Actually Thanong, I accept your C51...no more wrong questions.....except..

As for the code of conduct...not refering to history or Thai mentality, how do you feel? Take this one as stupid..
comment 57
rad date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.54

Lalida,
Ok,
That one is easier, the world economy, including Southeast Asia's improved during the time he was in office, was he any more or less responsibile for improvement in Thai life than than any of the other Southeast Asian leaders for the improvement of their citizens life, probably not.

But, you need to factor in the 2005 and 2006 time periods where the economy was slowed due to the instability caused by his instability.
comment 56
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Let me give you another example of cause and effect. Suppose the Mekong river is dry. Laos, Thailand and Cambodia, who shares the Mekong River, get into a quarrel over who should have more water or who are to blame for the dry. So the three countries' quarrel just goes round and round without any conclusion. If they just look north and see that the Mekong is being diverted into a Chinese dam, then they understand that they are quarrelling for nothing.
comment 55
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Loud and Clear ...Thanong....but I still have reserves trying to figure it out how to throw you another wrong question....he, he
comment 54
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

Thankyou, that's all I want to know...
comment 53
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

lalida my dearl, do you read me?
comment 52
rad date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.48

Lalida,
I did just that, the answer is, it is, difficult to tell, he was not in control during the last part of 2005 and until the coup in 2007. The country did not move any more then than during the coup.

The country since PPP control is worse than the coup.
comment 51
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Most other bloggers and writers will miss the point if they just look at Thailand in dualistic -- this is democratic and this is undemocratic. When beyond democracy also lies rule of law and right and wrong. If we all grasp the rule of law and right and wrong, then we'll see the whole picture.

One of the reasons that Mr T can't survive in Thailand because he is trying to spin wrong into right and right into wrong. This is something Bangkok won't allow him to get a way with it.

But Mr T has succeeded in swaying world's and public opinion into a narrow ground that the Elite is envious of his power, gained from pure democratic process with the vote of the majority.

So this is the summary of the whole conflict of Thai politics. If you get this point, then you'll have a clear writing. If not, you'll continue to ask the wrong questions and show the wrong ways out.
comment 50
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Sorry I rephrase it " compare the time when "T" was in office before and after..."
comment 49
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

It's a question in between before and after. do excuse my english...Compare when he was in office to before and after...
comment 48
rad date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.40

Thanong, c46
He doesn't seem like the type who takes advise well.
comment 47
rad date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.38

Lalida,
I answered the question, twice. Be specific if you have a question as I now don't thin I undersatnd yours.
comment 46
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

My writings and columns about Mr T have been mostly on the mark. Unfortunately, Mr T does not pay heed to my writings, including his PR machine operators. That's why he is now suffering beyond repair.
comment 45
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

To FelixQui:
Thank you for your comment. My comments are thoughtful because I have a heart of an E-Sarn, but a mind of the Elite. Most important of all, I have the framework of Thai politics. As I have said most of our bloggers here have the facts, the superficial facts, but they don't have the framework. So they are just discussing the effects without seeing the causes. I write with causes and effects, with the framework of Thai politics, with the heart of an E-san, like Lalida, and with the mind of an Elite, who loves his country honestly.
comment 44
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

No Rad, read this again...:-

"I ask..Was this country any better before his appearance and after he got thrown out?"
comment 43
rad date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.28

Lalida,
You asked was it better before or after, I answered the question.

Difficult to tell, you have somehing that says it was different than that? Lets hear it.
comment 42
rad date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.15

rakbkk,
Power, is that the only difference? Is that what gives him the right to continue the divisivness that is happening here?
Somehow that seems selfish to me, I can, so I will.
comment 41
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

This is not a one sides opinion of mine, I’d base on facts before and after. You talk about 2005 and most 2006, write me in details what was going on and what caused the coup and what was the reason for the coup and what was the target of the coup. Don’t talk to me about court validation, take it as I have lost total confident in them ever since then….

The snap election was one of the solution then and once again was a prove to everyone what people wants. The opposition was so afraid of entering it as they know they’re going to lose and if they did, they will have to shut their mouth from then onwards, so what did they do? They boycott it and use the court to play their games. TRUE?

You mentioned since 2005 nothing positive has been accomplished? So what is it that you want to debate with me, Rad?
comment 40
rakbkk date : 08/11/2008 time : 17.07

K Thanong, the second part of your blog mentions some famous ''sacrifices'' made by people who had power in Thailand.

A) Take another look at each case again, each single case is basically a ''deal'' of ''live and let die''.

B) ) They gave up their pursuit of power, because the ''power'' agreed to give up the chase for ''terms'' of live and let die. (infact Gen suchinda got an even better bargain!)

C) none of these folks had the mass support (read vote bank) like Thaksin

Now if thats the code that you expect Thaksin to follow, well you got it all wrong sir.. He knows his own power is still with him, thats ''people power'' (no pun intended).

As long as he can gather crowds like none else, even on the back of a dial in programme,
As long as we all will keep blogging about Thaksin, he will keep trying.
comment 39
rad date : 08/11/2008 time : 16.55

Lalida,
When one chooses a side, reality, logic and rational leave the scene, at least for the most part.

That things were better before the coup are arguable, the latter part of 2005 and most of 2006 were up for grabs. The baht was gaining strength and the economy was in a downward trend. Leadership was lacking. The government was caretaker, snap election was called, court invalididated the election.
Next the coup, things were stagnant, their only job, write a new constitution, then comes the elections and PPP wins, their only job is write a new constitution.

So since 2005 nothing positive has been accomplished. As long as one, Dr T or PAD, stays in the arena, both will and that is divisive. Neither seems to want to quit so until the winner is declared we will go backwards and when the winner is declared we will be lost and have gained very little.
comment 38
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 16.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

I’m not talking about the past or the present but I’m talking about facts. I ask..Was this country any better before his appearance and after he got thrown out? Are we now moving to anywhere? Have we not gone backwards instead of moving forward? I don’t blame the PAD, I’m pointing everything that I’ve got at them and why? Is it not true this country had turned upside down because of them? Throw me just one thing positive that they did for this country? Just one and nothing more I ask.

Throw me facts and throw me reality....rad.
comment 37
rad date : 08/11/2008 time : 16.21

Lalida,
You are still taliking in the past, what has happened has. So we need to move on and not dwell in the past.

Were Dr T to stand down things would gradually get better. Were the PAD to stand down the same would occur, imagine if both did! you however only blame PAD, when both have a similar responsibility and neither is a stand up kind of guy.

So the war will continue.
comment 36
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 16.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Littlefish,

That is why I mentioned "The Thai-Likes code of conduct".
comment 35
littlefish date : 08/11/2008 time : 15.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Breakthrough

It does not have to take Thailand 250 years to be stable like what they are. If we keep on using that number as an excuse for the Thais to be improving well being of the country. We will be like what we are now, and never be able to get out of this circle.
comment 34
peacefulness date : 08/11/2008 time : 15.48
Nationmultimedia.com

now confirmed by mr thani thongpakdee deputy director general of information of mininstry of foreign affairs that thaksin/wife entry visa to uk revoked as reported by news medias , reported by tnn news24 tv stn at 15.00hrs.
comment 33
Ian date : 08/11/2008 time : 15.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

comment 31. Might I add that by solid ground I mean an official statement from the British Foreign office, not some middle ranking official at the British Embassy.
comment 32
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 15.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Good one Felix....

K. Thanong, I want to know too...

Littlefish,

It took Amercia 250 something years to become today...
comment 31
FelixQui date : 08/11/2008 time : 15.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Khun Thanong,
It's wonderful that you reply to comments after you post a blog. And both your posts and replies are thoughtful, even if I don't always agree with you.

I'm dying to know, as are others: Do you have solid grounds for the report that the UK has cancelled Taksin and Pojamon's visas?
Do you think it's true?
comment 30
littlefish date : 08/11/2008 time : 15.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Breakthrough

Well, I know the country is in disarray at the moment. What is a good solution to make it peaceful? I do not see it will get there as long as
the confrontation is still on.

There is no comparison to what President-elect Obama has promised to do for his country and his people. Our politicians are selfish and what ever they do they will look at their own interests first, instead of the country.
comment 29
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 15.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

"Arguably, C21, change can come in many forms. As far as I see present situation, only the PADs have been campaigning for changes."

You’re right Little fish, A change of disorder, lawless and chaos. What else have they've change? Throw me one....
comment 28
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 14.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

rad.

The changes now is not done by “T”, it’s by the coup and the oppositions and PAD. Simple fact, if there wasn’t any PAD or the coup, we wouldn’t be in this shit today.
The difference that you mention, Obama was speaking to everyone who fought for democracy over 250 something years of history. Thaksin just started with a divided country between the educated and the rurals.
comment 27
littlefish date : 08/11/2008 time : 14.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Breakthrough

Nice history there:

I do not know if one has to follow that, so called, "code of conduct", you mentioned. However, if one has senses of responsibilty and sincerity to one's own country, the one has to sacrify. I know it may hurt one's own pride.

Arguably, C21, change can come in many forms. As far as I see present situation, only the PADs have been campaigning for changes.
comment 26
rad date : 08/11/2008 time : 14.51

Lalida,
You are talking 'was', I mean now. What he did may have been wonderful, but what he is doing now is divisive. similar to PAD.

Do you see the difference in the two mesages? Obama is speaking to everyone, Dr T is speaking to only those loyal to him, not a unitying message, in my opinion.
comment 25
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 14.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

You ask for it..

“Dr T is in the process of a negative change.”

Base on who’s definition? The Elite? You? The justice system in this country? The middle Class? By who’s standard is it consider as negative change. In E-san, we all see it as positive as it did change our lives, this country was moving. What happens now, we’re backwards and standing still……are we not. I trust my eyes the most not theory, I saw action and not talks...
comment 24
Plaadip date : 08/11/2008 time : 14.32

I think you wrote that Thaksin sill hold an edge, or something. But I don't mind it. Many did not expect the move by the UK government. Or you still maintain your opinion in his domestic front, aren't you?
comment 23
rad date : 08/11/2008 time : 14.23

Lalida,
Big diference in positive change and negative change.

Dr T is in the process of a negative change.

You did an if I were so and so, how about what, I would do if I were Dr T?

Would you continue to preach divide or would you maybe try a different tack, maybe preach together, that is what Obama offered. I know you didn't all vote for me but I will still work as your president.
That sounds like a unity message.
comment 22
Outsider date : 08/11/2008 time : 14.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/outsider

I strongly doubt the UK government really cares about rule of law in Thailand. Even if all this is true (as of this moment it is still questionable) the letter is just a bureaucratic step to cancel a visa on a canceled passport. Many exiled leaders like Khomeini, Bhutto, Papendreou, Aquino all had their visas canceled yet all of them somehow remained in exile but returned for better or for worse. All these people have more in common than Thaksin than the politicians you mentioned as he like them has access to the media. Will this now be his fate? Does this now mean that the turmoil will continue for 1,5 or even 10 years?
comment 21
FOS date : 08/11/2008 time : 14.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

I will not argue anything of the above of what you've wrote as I'm not yet confident with the news at this moment but there's 2 things I like to point out....

1) The Law society hitting back..This is no surprise when ones asses got kicked...if they don't try to find faults of what Thaksin said, they wouldn't be human at all...

2) Your wrote : The problem now with Thailand is that Thaksin Shinawatra does not concede. This is not Thai-like as judged by the political history.

So in order to follow the code of conduct, one have to follow the "THAI-LIKE"? If that's the case, How can we ever see changes in our country. Obama in US won the election because he campaign with the word "Changes". He's victory changed the political history of the country....So "WE" until to date in this century should still follow the "THAI LIKE" code of conduct????????????
comment 20
Chris-TH date : 08/11/2008 time : 12.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Chris-TH

K. Thanong, not 100% correct:

"This was Gen Suchinda's sacrifice".

As far as I know he was appointed the Commander of the King's personal guard until his retirement. Hardly a position that you turn down.
comment 19
thevoice date : 08/11/2008 time : 11.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/the-voice

In any case Thaksin still have many other options. Many third world countries will welcome him with open arms. It now lies with him whether or not he wants to accept it and remains in exile. Since he has so much money why not? If I am in I can't be bothered anymore whether I'll come back to Thailand. The money can last him many lifetime. Plus in such countries it is not very easy for people to get in there. Things will come cheap and he could hire many bodyguards just in case. With the advance technology he can still command from wherever he is to his people in Thailand. He won't be a loser anyway.
comment 18
Ian date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, Politics without humour is like bread without butter.
The British parliament often suffers from fits of laughter. Even our Queen has been seen to laugh and grin.
comment 17
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian, I love everything you write, except politics.
comment 16
Ian date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

comment 13, As I understand it, when Romania became a Russian communist satelite nation, both Dracula and Vlad moved to New York. When I visited his castle in 1968 there was a sign on the portcullis which read, "Please cancel all further deliveries of milk and full blooded maidens until further notice".
comment 15
Chris-TH date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Chris-TH

(sorry for getting that one before you thought about it)
comment 14
Chris-TH date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Chris-TH

Yeah, kinda liked that: Here is another one:

"The rumors say that Chamlong is seeking asylum on the Guantanamo base!!!. Then nobody can get to him and there are no laws!!!"
comment 13
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.24
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian and Chris, the rumours are swirling around that Count Dracula is considering to retire and he would like have a successor for a price. Maybe Thaksin is heading that way.
comment 12
peacefulness date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.20
Nationmultimedia.com

hahahahahaha........ this is a subtle humour of thai........ hahahahahaaaaaaaa.......
comment 11
Ian date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, these rumours are getting silly, Transylvania is not a country it is a province of Romania.
comment 10
Chris-TH date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Chris-TH

I consider that comment as an attempt to make a joke? Transylvania ceased to exist as an independent territory after WWI, when it was "gobbled" up by Romania.
comment 9
Ian date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

If he is in the Bahamas these rules apply.
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/wheretoapply/bahamas
comment 8
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

They may award him a title of a Count there in the land of Transylvania.
comment 7
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

But Khun Chris, I have just overheard that Transylvania is also considering a visa request from Mr T.
comment 6
Chris-TH date : 08/11/2008 time : 10.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Chris-TH

Well K. Thanong. The Bahamas still being part of the Commonwealth, gives special privileges to their citizens in the UK.
comment 5
Thanong date : 08/11/2008 time : 09.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Good point Khun Chris! Let's see whether Thaksin can re-enter the UK under a Bahamian passport.
comment 4
massein date : 08/11/2008 time : 09.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

The blogs this dated should keep us all entertained. I do know that justice is blind, and the law of karma will prevai
comment 3
wch date : 08/11/2008 time : 09.10

Anyhow what is the police ?
comment 2
Chris-TH date : 08/11/2008 time : 08.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Chris-TH

Interesting implications. If Dr. T. returns to the UK on a Bahamas Passport, he and the British government is off the hook.

As far as I know, the British laws prohibits a extradiction to a third country. Entering as a Bahamian will mean that any extradiction requests from Thailand cannot be honered.
comment 1
DeinHerzkenntdieWahrheit!!!! date : 08/11/2008 time : 08.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/changnoi

The news is NOT just a rumour.
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