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Thanong
Thanong Khanthong
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Wednesday , October 8 , 2008
Tyranny of the Minority vs Tyranny of the Majority
Posted by Thanong , Reader : 3485 , 13:56:12  
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The Tyranny of the Minority vs the Tyranny of the Majority

By Thanong Khanthong


When the anti-government protesters took over the Government House on August 26, 2008, they claimed that it was a triumph of people's politics in the name of civil disobedience. The protesters, known under the name of the People's Alliance for Democracy, are still guarding the Government House. Following clashes with the authorities on Tuesday morning, with two dead and more than 400 injuries, any hopes of a reconciliation are dashed.

The PAD protesters have already staging protests against the People Power-led government for more than three months. What they demand essentially is the removal of the remnants of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's political power from Thai politics once and for all. They also want Thailand to embrace New Politics, whatever that means.


A riot police throws a Chinese-made tear gas grenade into the anti-government protesters on Black October the Seventh, 2008 

Thaksin has already jumped bail and is now seeking a political asylum in the UK. Samak Sundaravej has also lost his premiership from a Constitution Court ruling. But Thaksin's people are still having political power. His regime remains intact. Somchai Wongsawat, the new prime minister, Thaksin's his brother in law. It is now clear that Somchai is serving as another nominee.


Outsiders might be asking what is going on in this beloved country whose its people are so charming and generous. Witnessing the political turmoil from the TV and newspapers, one American banker has also asked why Thailand has no respect for the rule of law at all. He looks upon the protesters as the Tyranny of the Minority -- those who want political change without paying any respect to the rule of law or the democratic process or waiting until the next election comes.

Other outsiders and foreign media are asking similar questions: How can the street protesters occupy the Government House, which is the equivalent of the White House, and nobody can do anything against them? How can the street demonstrations unseat a democratically elected government? Would there be any violence after the clashes on Tuesday? How long would this Somchai government last? And most importantly, would the political conflicts lead to another military coup?


Thaksin's protesters vs Thaksin's supporters

About 12 million people dislike Thaksin, while 14 million Thais support him. Thailand is neatly split. It is similar to the North/South conflict during the US Civil War in the 19th century.

The 12 million people voting against him are mostly the people from the South, which is the political base of the opposition Democrat Party, the Bangkok middle class and the urban voters. The 14 million supporters of Thaksin are mostly rural voters in the Northeast and North of Thailand.

Thaksin succeeded in the strategy of divide and rule between his premiership in 2001 and 2006. His legacy continues to this day.

Thaksin's protesters view that his regime, now reincarnated as the People Power Party, represents the Tyranny of the Majority. It is corrupted and represents Thai politics as we know it.

Thaksin, get out!

The Thai politics as we know it is the electoral process, where the politicians buy the votes and take over the government to distribute the wealth among themselves and their cronies, leaving the general public with the left over bones. Once the politicians are in power, the people have no way to hold them accountable.

Investing in the Thai politics yields very attractive return. The sovereign wealth funds, which have spent billions of dollar to buy into Citibank's recapitalisation last year, get a tiny stake each in the US bank. They also have little control in the management of Citibank.

But in Thai politics, an MP is worth around Bt30 million or around US$1 million. To have a majority control in Parliament of 470, one needs to spend only US$200-US$300 million US dollar to bring the majority MPs to one's wing. The MPs then go on to buy votes from the voters.

Then one is in a position to run the whole country, manage the annual budget of about Bt1.8 trillion, exploit the government concessions and natural resources.

The investment return in Citibank is incomparable to the investment in Thai politics.

The protesters occupying the Government House do not want this kind of democracy as defined loosely and singularly by the electoral process. The Thai democracy as we know it follows the vicious cycle of election, corruption, military coup and then a new constitution throughout the erratic democratic path of Thailand since 1932.

The anti-government protesters look upon the People Power-led government as Tyranny of the Majority. In this arrangement, once the politicians get elected, they take over the government and move on to appoint their own people to serve their self-interests without listening to opposition or criticism. They go on to undermine the check and balance system.

But Thaksin's supporters, largely in the Northeast and the North, view that Thaksin and his people play by the democratic rules. They have been elected by the majority of the Thai people. Moreover, Thaksin is their champion because he introduces universal healthcare and cheap credit to them.

The rural voters view that all governments are corrupt. Thaksin government might not be an exception. But at least, the voters can get something in the form of populist policy out of the Thaksin government whereas past governments have ignored their plight. Thai politics belong to the elite in Bangkok.

The anti-government protesters want democracy without corruption and nepotism. The rural voters look upon democracy as a festival when the politicians hand them money or feed them with good food or take them on a holiday tour. Democracy for the rural voters means the politicians bring them populist policies and look after their welfare because they have voted for the politicians.  

Ironically, the champion of the poor is Thailand's richest person, whose wealth of almost US$2 billion kept in the banks is being frozen. By all standard, Thaksin is an elite, who knows how to get around the political system.

The Thaksin's supporters view the protesters as nothing more than sore losers, the Tyranny of the Minority, who have no respect for democracy. The Thaksin's supporters challenge that if the protesters do not like the government, they should wait after four years and try to prove their point in the election polls.

We love Thaksin

The supporters of the Tyranny of the Minoarity argue that they are not good at manipulating the election polls. Come any election, the Thaksin's people would win because they have so much money in store. The democratic rules must be reformed to make it easier for capable people to serve politics -- not just the old-faced politicians alone. 

The anti-government protesters want new politics with governance, removal of money politics, and genuine check and balance. They do not trust the politicians.

The pro-government supporters want the political status quo (let's prove it at the election polls). They believe the politicians, who are their representatives, have done their job adequately. No matter how the constitution is reformed, they will continue to pick the old faces as their representatives in Parliament.  

In effect, Thai politics is kept in the box.

The Politics of Distortion


Most outsiders, including well foreign media and foreign governments, view that the Military, the Elite, the Establishment and the Bangkok Middle Class are anti-democratic and working openly and behind the scenes to bring down the democratically elected government of the People Power in order to protect their "interest and privilege." The Democrat Party has also been branded as belonging to this faction of sore losers.

On the other hand, Thaksin, the People Power Party, the rural voters in the North and the Northeast are cherished as "democratic lovers".

Let's see the chart below.

                                           

                                          Monarchy

________________________________________________

(Anti-democracy?)                                    (Pro-democracy?)

Military/Establishment                                 Thaksin Shinawatra

PAD/Bangkok middle class                            Rural people

Democrat Party                                                People Power Party

12m  voters                                                       14m voters                           

South, Bangkok                                                 North, Northeast

Independent media                                          Pro-government media

                                                                             Foreign media, foreign govt

New politics                                                        Political status quo

                                                     Judiciary

                                             Business and financial sectors 

**************************************************************                                                                         

Note: The Monarchy is above the politics and the polarisation. The Judiciary and business and financial sectors are get caught in between the country's polarisation at this critical juncture.

The Monarchy. The Monarchy is above politics and above the polarisation. The Monarchy favours political stability, rule of law and prosperity for the country. If there is political stability, the Monarchy will also enjoy stability. If there is political instability or social upheavals, the Monarchy will also suffers from the instability.

The Monarchy feels uncomfortable everytime Thailand faces instability. This is an important fact. The Monarchy can't favour any parties because it will lose its impartiality. The Monarchy was disturbed by a request for a royally appointed prime minister in 2006 because that could not be constitutionally done. The Monarchy is now disturbed by all parties in conflict at the moment because they don't use their wisdom or make self sacrifice for the country to move ahead again in a proper fashion.

The Monarchy observes the constitutional rules. Contrary to what some books would like us to believe, a weak democracy and a weak rule of law equally undermines the strength of the Thai Monarchy. In short, if there is balance in the Thai system and the Thai people are happy without any divide, the Monarchy will also enjoy stability. The Monarchy can co-exist with genuine democracy in the Thai context.

The Monarchy does not prefer political instability so that it could side with the Military to defend its "privilege and interest" as the wrong-headed The Economist magazine has wrongly claimed. The political instability undermines the Monarchy's stability too.

Similarly, Thailand's interest is to see political stability in its neighbours such as Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia or Burma. Thailand does not enjoy stability if its neigbours face political instability or economic hardship. If Thailand's neighbours achieve stability and prosperity, Thailand will also benefit from that neighbouring  stability and prosperity.

The United States also prefers a healthy and stable Mexico rather than enjoying seeing another peso crisis.

The Monarchy system of Thailand should also be seen in this context regarding its relationship with other domestic institutions.  If there is balance in Thai society and all the domestic institutions are strong under the rule of law, the Monarchy will enjoy stability.

His Majesty the King's role is impartial. He strictly follows the tradition and the Constitution. He has several times warned the Thais to unite and to use their wisdom to prevent the country from sliding into calamity. The King has used the word "calamity" or lom jom several times.

Abhisit Vejjajiva, the Democrat leader, called for the former prime minister Samak Sundaravej to dissolve the House to defuse the political crisis. By implication, if the politicians could't resolve the political crisis, they had to return the power to His Majesty the King.

After the election was completed, the King would return the power back to the people through Parliament. In this sense, there is always continuity of power in Thai politics, with the Monarch as the ever-present institution.

When King Prachadipok, or Rama VII, lost his Absolute Monarchy in 1932, he did not hand his sovereign power to anybody or any particular group of people. He simply wrote a blank cheque of his sovereign power to the Thai people.

Whenever the Thais can't settle the political crises among themselves, they return the power to the Monarch before they try to move ahead again with the blessing of the Monarch. This is how Constitution Monarchy is working in Thailand, with the King as the benovalent Monarch.

Forbes has recently published a survey finding that the Thai King is the world's richest Monarch with a wealth of US$35 billion. This is a total misunderstanding.

The magazine does know the difference between the assets of the Crown Property Bureau and the assets of His Majesty the King. Any personal assets belonging to His Majesty were derived before he ascended the throne. After he became king, all the assets belong to the Crown. The Crown Property Bureau is a public institution, like the State Railway of Thailand or Egat, owned by the Thai people. The Royal Grand Palace is a property of all the Thai people.

Of the vast landholdings of the Crown Property Bureau in Bangkok, only 17 per cent of the holdings is developed with commercial purpose. The rest is being rented out to government agencies and organisations and the local communities at charity rates.

One just can't calculate President Bush's wealth by adding the White House to his net worth.

The Military/Establishment. The Military and the Establishment have been branded as "pro-coup", whereas Thaksin has been cherished as "democracy defender". So far Gen Anupong Paochinda, the army chief, has been trying to play a soft hand. He is the most powerful figure in Thailand at the moment because he has the guns and the tanks.

Please give me your sincere view. Should I stage a coup, Khunying Pornthip?

But he has insisted that he has sealed the door to a military coup, which is not a way out for Thailand. The military coup in 2006 was a failure in restoring a new political order, so the military is not likely to repeat its act unless there is a Civil War. The 2006 was staged to pre-empt clashes between the PAD and the Thaksin's supporters. Now the cycle has returned.

In general, most Thais had mixed feelings about the 2006 coup. Dr Ammar Siamwalla, the well-known economist, then said he was sad with the 2006 coup but he was not angry with it.

The 1991 military coup staged by Gen Suchinda Khraprayoon served the military's self-interest. So the coup was highly unpopular, although the Chatichai government was branded as Buffet Cabinet. The 2006 coup was a reluctant coup staged to pre-empt the clashes and to restore political order. Both failed miserably.


Now Gen Anupong has power because whenever the politics is weak, the role of the military being enhanced. This is the equation of Thai politics. Weak politics means the politicians and the people are at odds against each other.

Samak declared the State of Emergency on Tuesday, September 2, 2008 in order to give Anupong the sword to quash the protesters occupying the Government House. But Anupong was reluctant to use force, preferring to resort to the diplomatic channel to end the political crises.

Somchai Wongsawat, the new prime minister, inherits the three-year political conflict. Now we are witnessing the political crisis flaring up again.

Again, the military does not want to stage a coup. But if the politicians, the PAD and the Thai public in general continue to squabble without any solution, and in so doing damaging the economy and national stability, the military will only be forced to act finally.

The military now views that the best way out for the country is a political compromise, with a possibility of a National Unity Government. It does not want to get itself into the big mess again.

The military and the establishment would like Thailand to achieve political stability for the long term. It is in their interest. If the Military likes to preserve their power, they would not have called the general election one year after the coup. They could easily serve power for longer years. The Military now listen to the world's public opinion, which goes against military regime.

The military or the elite do not have the money or privileges as claimed because they do not collect the tax and spend the tax money or award out the concessions. The Finance Ministry collects the tax, but the politicians in office spend the money and hand out the government concessions to their friends. The national budget, the bureaucratic appointments and the concessions are in the hands of the politicians. The military only depend their livelihood on the annual budget and at times make commissions from military hardware procurement. The elite only owns the land, but not the cash.


The People's Alliance for Democracy/Bangkok Middle Class.

The PAD has fortified at the Government House compound, and demanded the end to the People Power Party rule. The PAD's argument is that Thai politics is narrowly involved with the politicians only. Once they get elected, the public has no way to get involved or get their voices heard. The politicians go their own way to enjoy, while the whole country suffers. New politics will create more people participation.

Their tactics might violate the law and raise our eye-brows, but their aim is for better politics. The frustration against politics as we know it has been going on for fears, only waiting for the right time to explode. Whenever we have changes from the politics as we know it, the old politicians come back again after the election to run the public office to reinforce the vicious cycle.

We have done nothing wrong, We only exercise a legal act of treason against the state.

The PAD has lost its popular appeal after it has taken over the Government House. Most people are disturbed by its violation of the law.

Let's take a look at the American Revolution. This is from Wikipedia:
"The Boston Tea Party was an act of direct action protest by the American colonists against the British Government in which they destroyed many crates of tea belonging to the British East India Company on ships in Boston Harbor. The incident, which took place on Thursday, December 16, 1773, has been seen as helping to spark the American Revolution and remains to this day one of the most iconic events in American history."

Immigrants supporting the British Crown looked upon the Boston Tea Party as an act of treason or a violation of the rule of law, whereas those who supported independence cherished it as a heroic act. If George Washington had lost the war, he would have been executed on treason. Since he won the war against the British Crown, he was hero.

History is judged by the winner who writes history. If the PAD is quashed, history will look upon the PAD as ugly violators of the law or fake democratic fighters. But if the PAD prevails over the politics as we know it, the takeover of the Government House will be looked upon as one of the "iconic events in Thai history." 

The PAD protesters are made up with a strange group of people, namely the Bangkok middle-class, the NGOs, the labour movements, the political activists, the academics, the doctors, the well-educated Thais with master degrees or PhDs. They do not necessary follow the PAD's leaders; but they are fed up with politics as we know it and are afraid that Thaksin might come back.

In the political history of Thailand, the Bangkok middle-class -- not the rural poor -- have always played the prominent role in fighting against the military regimes and the bad politicians for the advancement of the democratic process.

Without the Bangkok middle-class, Thai democracy would not have come this far.

There is a famous Thai political theory, called Two-City Theory. The rural voters -- due to their majority votes -- may vote in the government, but it is the urban voters who bring down the government.

The Democrat Party has got caught in the dilemma. It, too, has been branded as anti-democracy because it boycotted the election in 2006 and is accused as a PAD sympathiser. The Democrat is being isolated in the emerging two-party system.

The Business/Financial Sectors

Now the wealth of Thailand lies in the hand of the private sector, the people who are in business or in the financial sectors. Thailand's economy depends on exports, which account for 60 per cent of the GDP.

The wealth or the privilges are not concentrated in the military/the establishment or the Monarchy as generally misunderstood.

Of Bt6 trillion total money deposited in the Thai banking system, Bt4.2 trillion is being held in less than 900,000 accounts. The rest of Bt1.8 trillion is deposited in 74 million accounts. Thailand has a population of 65 million people.

So who are holding the chunk of Thailand's wealth or the 900,000 accounts of Bt4.2 trillion?

They are the big businesses and family business groups. They are the big stakeholders of Thailand, who have benefited from Thailand's economic development over the past three to four decades. These big-time stakeholders of Thailand control telecom, banking, finance, real estate, exports, trade, liquor, retail (the Shinawatras, the CP, the Sophonpanichs, Chirathiwats, Sirivadhanabhakdis, Red Guar drinks, and so on.)

Land holdings also belong to the big businesses and family business groups. 

So far the business people, except the Shinawatras, have yet to make clear their political agenda. They prefer to stay behind the scenes, giving money to all political parties.

The private sector group, consisting of the Federation of Thai Industries, the Thai Bankers' Association and the Thai Chamber of Commerce, traditionally supports the government because its interest is tied to government projects and policy. The private sector does not care much about democracy or no-democracy in so far as the business environment is sound.

Over the past years, the business and financial sectors have also come to have influence in shaping the political outcome. They tend to side with the Bangkok middle-class. But during the Thaksin era, the business and financial sectors appeared to have tilted toward supporting the Thaksin regime. They follow their pocketbooks.

Thaksin Shinawatra and the People Power Party. 

To his credit, Thaksin succeeded in legitimising the electoral process. The Thai people in general do not care much about election because they believe that the politicians come and go. All politicians are corrupt. They buy votes. Governments can go any time and they do not have to stay for four years. 

But the Thaksin era has legitimised the electoral process of a four-year term like a US presidency. Thaksin's political power came from his massive money stockpiles and his mergers and acquisitions of the political parties in the Northeast. He built the Thai Rak Thai, which was disbanded. Now the People Power Party is its reincarnation. He has Puea Thai Party registered in case that the People Power Party is dissolved.

I love politics as we all know it.

But he also commanded genuine popularity among the rural people.

He pit the rural voters against the urban voters, dividing the country between those who loved him and those who hated him.

Great leaders are known for uniting the country; Thaksin succeeded in dividing the country into two ugly pieces. His legacy continues. Most important, he represents the politics as we know it. He is not for change, but for the status quo.  

In the past, even up until now, most Thais do not trust the electoral process. They even look down upon it. They believe that the electoral process can be easily exploited by vote buying through the patronage system. They view the democracy as nothing more than money politics.

But the outside world looking into Thailand narrowly focuses on the electoral process as the barometer. Increasingly, electoral process has come to represent the cornerstone of democracy, even though democracy, to function appropriately, needs a good system of check and balance.

A system of democracy needs other institutional machineries for it to function properly. Protesters against Thaksin view that Thaksin has hijacked democracy with money politics, but his supporters or outsiders look at the protesters as sore losers.

Foreign media, foreign governments and international community liked Thaksin because they viewed that he came from the electoral process. They also viewed that the rural voters' political view should be respected by the whole country. 

The world's opinion on Thailand now is tilting toward the rural voters, who now have come to the forefront of democracy in Thailand through their majority votes. Any political opposition against their aspirations or wishes is branded as undemocratic. The rural voters look at democracy as what they can get from the politicians.

The Politicians

The politicians are the main problem or the liabilities of democracy. They buy votes and hope to form government and run the public office. Once in power, they try to recoup their investment from the election. The Thai politicians have yet to reform to better standard to keep in touch with the private sector development.

The old faces still come back to power time and again. Since they control Parliament, they issue law to serve their interest. Since they control the public office, they appoint their own people to serve their interest. Since they control the budget process, they disburse the money to their own constituencies. Since they have control over government concessions, they award the concessions to their cronies or those who pay the kickbacks.

Thai politics as we know it can't go on with these politicians, who have refused to die.

Three Processes Involved With Political Power

There are three processes involved with political power – the process of assuming power, the process of managing power and the process of stepping down from power.

The ruling party -- People Power Party -- has been arguing that since they have been democratically elected by a majority of the Thai people, they must be allowed to run the country till the end of the term as stipulated by the Constitution. Any objection to their rule is looked upon as undemocratic because it represents a minority voice, which does not play by the rule or does not honour the outcome of the majority votes.

This sounds plausible enough. Practically all the Thais acknowledged the outcome of the December election in 2007 that brought the People Power Party to power. Samak led his party to a victory and formed a coalition government with five other coalition partners with 315 MPs in Parliament.

After having formed his government, Samak and his Cabinet completed the process of assuming the political power. That initial stage of the process in assuming the political power was over.

Nobody objected that.


The next stage, in which we are now, involves the Somchai government's managing of the political power. This is a more difficult task. To manage the country through the remaining term, the government must try to build up a consensus and get broad-based support among the people, who either voted for it or voted against it.

In other words, it must try to keep its supporters happy and have the least number of people objecting its rule. In so doing, the Government must really run the country for the benefits of all the people rather than serving the interest of some groups of people.


If the government fails to manage its power by bringing the minority group of people on board, as is now the case, it would find it difficult to continue to rule. The voice of the minority, whose members are also Thais, is legitimate too.


The protesters staged the rally at first to demand Samak's resignation on the grounds that he is acting as nominee for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra; his government sold off the Temple of Preah Vihear to Cambodia; his government tried to amend the Constitution to protect the interests of the politicians; among others.

Which brings us to the third and final stage, which involves the process of stepping down from power. If government manages the political power to the satisfaction of most Thais, it can survive four years. If not, it has to explore the process of stepping down or avoid being booted out.

Throughout history, politicians, once they are in power, do not want to step down easily. They only leave office when they're really being kicked out.

PM Somchai is now exploring the possibility of stepping down from power either through outright resignation or House dissolution after a Constitution Drafting Committee is formed.

Somchai can't stay on for long because his government has lost LEGITIMACY when the police force started to attack the crowd on October 7.

This is the Thai political context. Thailand is not the US whose president stays for four years no matter what happens. In Thai political context, at least this juncture, prime minister comes and go any time. Look at Japan, they also change PM all the time. How about Italy?

The Judiciary System

A country can survive without democracy but it can't survive without the rule of law.

After the 1997 crisis, the Thai corporates have improved their governance and become more competitive. Businesses have reformed themselves with stronger balance sheet. Corporate governance has improved.

But the Thai political system has not changed at all since 1932. The politicians are still operating in the old mode of money politics. The Cabinet is formed by quota, about 15 MPs getting together to acquire one Cabinet quota.

Thailand does not have any problem with democracy in the superficial form. But it has weakness in the rule of law, which is the intrinsic form of workab le democracy. Hong Kong and Singapore are less democratic than Thailand, but both are deemed to have stronger rule of law than in Thailand.

The burden of democracy lies in the court room. Who's next?

Now the rule of law is being strengthened in Thailand. The Judiciary System has risen to take up the challenge. The judges have become a catalyst of political change by way of the court cases presented to them for deliberation. Their verdicts have changed and will continue to change the course of Thai politics.

The Court nullified the election in 2006. It disbanded the Thai Rak Thai. It has sentenced three election commissioners to jail for failing in their duties. The Appeal Court has upheld the lower court's verdict. The Criminal Court has sentenced Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra to three years in jail for tax evasion. Over the next two weeks, the Supreme Court will read out the verdict on the Rachadapisek land purchase deal in which Thaksin and Pojaman are the defendants.

The Constitution Court has already found Samak guilty of hosting the TV cooking show and stripped off his premiership. There are also other corruption cases against Thaksin waiting for Court deliberation at the moment.

The Constitution Court will also be deliberating the party dissolution case against the People Power Party once the Office of the Attorney General wraps up the case. The People Power Party is at risk of being disbanded like its Thai Rak Thai predecessor because the Election Commission has recommended this move. This process will take some time.

Some, including Samak Sundaravej, are arguing that the judges are crossing the turf of the administration in their verdicts. Moreover the judges, who do not stand in the election, have no right to judge the popularly elected politicians, pro-Thaksin supporters say.

But the judges are doing their duties adequately. Their verdicts are the only hope of strengthening democracy, not undermining democracy.

Conclusion
Most ofl the Thai people, the military, the elite, the Bangkok middle class, the business and financial sectors have a shared interest in the political stability. They all love democracy. But their understanding of the definition of democracy is different from that of the rural Thais, who also cherish democracy in their own views and rights.

All the sources of instability incur from the politicians. The street demonstrations, rightly or wrongly assembled, are simply an anti-thesis to money politics.

Thailand might have a deep-seated political problem at this juncture but it will continue to embrace open society and open economy. The country now depends on tourism and foreign trade to improve the income distribution.  

I don't see Thailand backtrack against the democratic process because Thailand is part of the international community and the global economy. It is a joke to believe that the rural voters love or have better understanding of democracy than the Bangkok middle class.

We just need to sort out our internal political system first. The foreign media and foreign experts must stop distorting Thai politics with their convenient definition of "democracy". The Monarchy has been around in Thailand for 700 years. It is an institution of great reverence. It is the strength of Thailand, not an obstacle to progress.

The politicians are the liabilities of our democratic system. If the politicians are clean and really work for the progress of the country, there won't be any street demonstrations. They can't be brought to jail easily because Thailand's rule of law is slow.

A former bank executive has recently been sent to prison after going through the court process of more than 12 years.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

So far the debate about Thailand is dualistic -- democracy or no democracy. That's too easy.

The US, who is the champion of global capitalism, is now doing everything that goes against capitalism or free market by nationalising banks and financial institutions and bailing out the big businesses. We can't say that the US has abandoned capitalism for socialism. The problem has to do with greeds and mistakes in the financial system that is not regulated appropriately.

Temporary US government intervention is necessary to prevent a total collapse of the financial system. But the US is not being attacked in the narrow capitalism/socialism dichotomy, like what Thailand has gone through the "democratic/undemocratic " condemnation after the 2006 military coup. 

Thailand's coup in 2006 should be seen in this similar US context. It was a temporary intervention to restore democracy. It only turned out with poor and tragic result. But the price Thailand has to pay is very high in ther international eyes and "democratic lovers".

The US is now trapped in a financial black hole. Thailand is also trapped in a political black hole. Let's allow the US to sort its way out and also allow Thailand to find its way out too, democratic or undemocratic if you like.

 **********************************************************


Read comment

comment 171
FOS date : 17/10/2008 time : 16.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

I think I've just lost the mood of any conversation in regards to politics......the whole thing just don't make anymore sense to me......better go home and catch fish with my father...more relaxing..
comment 170
rad date : 17/10/2008 time : 08.50

Thanong,
I thank you for the offer, but I too must decline, the distance is an obstacle.
comment 169
ys-lai date : 17/10/2008 time : 07.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

Thanong & Ian,

Tks for invitation, I don't live in Thailand.

Hence, this time I have to decline. I live in so many countries I almost lose my own self identity.

Frankly speaking; my attachment to Thailand is due to spiritual influence that happen to be in Northern Thailand.

I enjoy making debate; and nothing personal; pls don't take to heart. Sometime, even good to listen the view point of enemy. Evolution of human society is progress through debate and not war. my friend!!!!
comment 168
Ian date : 16/10/2008 time : 19.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, I would be happy to meet if you are serious, but I would have to bring along two companions, one of my daughters who will be visiting me at that time, plus my gf.
It would be a long journey for me, a bit further west would be better, but I can make it.
comment 167
Thanong date : 16/10/2008 time : 18.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Maybe Saturday, November 1, when I have a day off. Can be somewhere near Central Chidlom. Starts at around two o'clock.
comment 166
FOS date : 16/10/2008 time : 18.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Would love to but I think I'll just be the listener with my ears wide open......

Frankly, I don't have any political views but only see the matter as it is and is just an opinion from my little brain.
comment 165
Ian date : 16/10/2008 time : 18.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, that would be an interesting discussion:-) I might be wrong but I think rad is unfortunately too far away for a brief chat. Not sure about ys-lai. If I could apply arbitary terms to the people you have named, not in the normal western sense. Shall I call anti PAD left wing and pro PAD right wing. Then I see ys-lai and Lalida as left wing, myself as left of centre, rad as centre, and you as right of centre, would that be a fair assessment do you think?
comment 164
Thanong date : 16/10/2008 time : 16.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian, Rad and ys-lai can come along.
comment 163
Thanong date : 16/10/2008 time : 16.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Khun Lalida,
when should we meet over a cup of coffee to discuss politics?
comment 162
ys-lai date : 16/10/2008 time : 15.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

Thanong,

Two brothers is fighting; an innocent bystander with no vested interest usually see clearer than two fighting brothers with vested interest and emotion although this is their internal family affair.

This is norm; I don’t blame you. But I hope sometime, you can look at issue even from your enemy point of view. Especially you are a professional journalist; very important to have a neutral report. Otherwise, NEWS is seem like a Judgmental statement.
comment 161
FOS date : 16/10/2008 time : 15.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Sorry, should read "Tell US"
comment 160
FOS date : 16/10/2008 time : 14.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

This time I will not ask your opinion of the 2 latest one that you’ve posted but I will give you my opinion.

I wouldn’t say they’re 100% correct but I do agree it’s a fair post. I look at it this way; those 2 are the outsider looking in so there views have to neutral on the matter rather on personal issues, their detailed information are very limited unless they’re in this country all along. I’m sure they will write differently if they are in this country themselves. It’s actually a good thing to hear what the outsider can see that we don’t and tell u. In a way we can mix our ones with theirs and analysis. Well that’s how I see it…..
comment 159
Ian date : 16/10/2008 time : 14.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, when you write, "it is typical of foreign view, with a strict formula. " you imply that a strict formula is wrong.
Is not the basic problem with Thai politics the fact that there IS no formula, or at best a very fluid and changeable one?
comment 158
rad date : 16/10/2008 time : 14.15

ys-lai,
I had a similar thought. I thought the story was fairly close, for a foreign report. Plus it included a lot of background.
comment 157
Thanong date : 16/10/2008 time : 14.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

YS-Lai, I didn't say that Japan Times' wrote anything wrong. I only say it is typical of foreign view, with a strict formula.
comment 156
ys-lai date : 16/10/2008 time : 13.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

Thanong,

The view from Japan time is neutral and reflecting the FACT that you can’t see with yr heavy tinted glass. Period.
comment 155
Thanong date : 16/10/2008 time : 12.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

This is from Japan Times, so typical of foreign view on Thailand.

'People's Democrats' in name

The political situation in Thailand continues to deteriorate. After forcing the resignation of one prime minister, the opposition has stepped up its fight to unseat the government in Bangkok and take power. This has resulted in the worst violence in nearly two decades, which has left at least one person dead and hundreds injured.

It appears as if the opposition has set out to destabilize the country and force yet another coup. It is a sad commentary on Thailand's opposition, which calls itself the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), but appears to have no respect for democracy or the rule of law.

Bangkok began its descent into chaos in May when PAD launched daily protests against then Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej. The opposition party argued that Mr. Samak was a puppet of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who had been deposed two years earlier by a military coup following allegations that he, his family and close colleagues were corrupt. In addition, he was accused of lese-majeste. Those protests escalated in late August when demonstrators broke into the grounds of Government House and set up camp, effectively paralyzing the government.

After declaring a national emergency — which the armed forces refused to enforce — Mr. Samak was forced to step down when the Constitutional Court ruled that his appearances on a televised cooking show constituted a conflict of interest. This victory for the opposition was short-lived. Mr. Samak was replaced by Mr. Somchai Wangsawat, Mr. Thaksin's brother-in-law, a move that infuriated PAD.

Opposition supporters escalated their protests to try to block Mr. Somchai from making his address to open Parliament. (The new prime minister is operating out of the VIP lounge at the Bangkok airport.) The police this time responded with tear gas, amid rumors of gunshots, and street battles left at least one person dead and some 500 injured.

Ostensibly, the protests have targeted the new prime minister, who, like his brother-in-law, is charged with corruption. More cynical observers believe the opposition is trying to destabilize Bangkok and force the military to step in yet again with the 19th coup since Thailand became a democracy in 1932.

Thus far the military has stayed its hand. Gen. Anupong Paojinda, chief of the armed forces, bluntly stated that "the situation does not warrant staging a coup." This evenhandedness is a welcome development after the military refused to enforce the emergency declared by Mr. Samak. While no one wants to see bloodshed, the armed forces cannot afford to turn a blind eye to an opposition intent on destabilizing the country — especially when the government is democratically elected. For those who applauded the military's prior restraint, it is important to recall that the opposition and the military for the most part oppose the government's policies.
The real issue in Bangkok is that Mr. Thaksin and his successors have undermined Thailand's old order. There were plenty of grounds for complaint against Mr. Thaksin: He may have been corrupt, he condoned an extra-judicial war against drug dealers that resulted in thousands of deaths, and his heavy-handed response to the Muslim insurgency in the south exacerbated unrest in that region.

However, Mr. Thaksin's political message — support for the rural population that had long been neglected by the Bangkok leadership — resonated deeply among a majority of Thais. He was a populist and his successors continued that line. There was no mistaking that the victory of the People Power Party in elections last year reflected the will of the majority.

PAD has not accepted that verdict. Instead, it seeks to overthrow the government by any means. It seeks a government that is appointed rather than elected. This would ensure that PAD's constituencies maintain their grip on power. This is not democracy as the concept is commonly understood.

There is little that friends of Thailand can do to stabilize the country's fragile democracy. But concerned nations should send a message to the opposition that another coup will not be tolerated. Thailand's political parties must understand that they cannot change the rules of the game when they lose elections. There must be respect for the rule of law: If politicians are corrupt, then the legal process must be respected — that is the way to bring about change, not street protests.
Real democrats must find common ground between the government and opposition parties. They should not rely on the military to resolve the situation by force. Dissolving Parliament and calling new elections is unlikely to resolve this problem as a fair vote would likely return PPP to power. That would only postpone the eventual reckoning. Compromise that responds to the needs of all Thais is the only responsible course.

The Japan Times: Monday, Oct. 13, 2008
(C) All rights reserved
comment 154
Thanong date : 16/10/2008 time : 12.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

This is from Voice of America

Democracy In Thailand
10 October 2008

Earlier this month, the streets of Thailand's capital, Bangkok, seethed as the city suffered its worst political violence in 16 years. Demonstrators from the People’s Alliance for Democracy, some of them armed, attempted to blockade parliament on October 7. Thai authorities responded with tear gas, and both protesters and police suffered injuries in clashes throughout the day.

Thailand's People’s Power Party-led coalition won the national election last December, largely thanks to the backing of rural voters. But the People's Alliance for Democracy, a loose coalition of groups including academics, businessmen, upper and middle class urban dwellers and union activists, claims that the government elected in December is acting as a proxy for ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Mr. Thaksin fled the country in August to avoid a trial on corruption charges, but many feel that he still exerts influence over the government via his allies, including his brother-in-law, current Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat.

Prime Minister Somchai says that the country's problems will be resolved through the democratic process. The People's Alliance for Democracy claims that Thailand's electoral system is susceptible to vote-buying, and that the powerful rural majority is not sophisticated enough to vote responsibly. It calls for scrapping the one-person, one-vote system. Instead, the opposition party advocates that some lawmakers be chosen by professions and social groups. Thus the electoral power of the rural poor would be weakened.

The protesters say they will continue their rallies until the government steps down. Prime Minister Somchai says he will not step down.

The United States regrets the recent violence and is disturbed by reports that some demonstrators instigated violence against the police. The United States urges all parties to respect the rule of law and address their differences within Thailand's democratic institutions.

The United States calls on protesters to peacefully express their views in a manner that does not impede the functioning of a democratically elected parliament and government. The United States welcomes Prime Minister Somchai’s commitment to resolving the current crisis within the rule of law.


http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/2008-10-12-voa2.cfm
comment 153
Ian date : 15/10/2008 time : 20.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, I feel your writer for Quebec is rather naive, perhaps being cynical this is to be expected.
He is very dismissive of farangs in general and the western media in particular. Actually I find the western media more informative and less biased than the Thai media. Plus of course the more local non Thai Asian media.
Most of your observations I can agree with, it is in some of your conclusions that we diverge. Perhaps this in inevitable between a Thai and a farang:-)
comment 152
FOS date : 15/10/2008 time : 20.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Smart man you are K. Thanong.....you sure know how to walk round a land mine.......No further questions your honour.......
comment 151
Thanong date : 15/10/2008 time : 19.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Khun Lalida:
Your photo and the background show you're a sao ban nok. But actually, you're a very sophisticated lady.

As for your question, I am an observer and I have already shown you two sides of the coin.
comment 150
FOS date : 15/10/2008 time : 19.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

What is your view on the article that your reader sent to you from Chiang Mai?
comment 149
Thanong date : 15/10/2008 time : 19.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

This is from ABN AMRO.

A political showdown seems near. Puzzled? There is an excellent article "The Tyranny of the Minority vs Tyranny of the Majority" by Thanong Khantong of The Nation. Highly recommended for anyone who would like to make sense of what is going on in Thai politics....you can find the article at : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong/2008/10/08/entry-2
comment 148
Thanong date : 15/10/2008 time : 19.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

This is from a Canadian reader......

Sawasdee khap Khun Thanong,

Thank you for a very interesting description of the Thai political scene. One of my close Thai friends here in Canada sent me a copy of your article after I had emailed her a copy of a recent but much briefer Nation article. I already knew the very basic outlines of the governmental system but not the details you provided. In particular I did not understand the political role of the middle class in Thailand.

I am a great admirer of King Bhumiphol based on his wisdom, his achievements over the years and his love of the Thai people. I am sure he is very upset over the current protest mess. I am also sure that, even at his age, he could "fix" the problem if only he was in a position to reform the whole election system.

A curious coincidence: From the thirties to the late fifties here in the province of Quebec, the premier managed to keep his party in power during most of that period by "buying" votes from the rural population in the form of new roads and other services. He was aided by the Catholic Church whose priests told the congregations who to vote for. The premier died in 1959. By 1960 what we call the "Quiet Revoltion" had begun with a reform of the educational system, the establishment of a proper business school (replacing the tiny one they had before), and many other changes. Since that time, there has been a lot of development here, a new university and additions to the other two here in Montreal, introduction of colleges of higher education (they fit between high school and university and are partly trade schools as well) plus an increase in the manufacturing sector. I sincerely hope that somehow the PAD and other groups will be able to make the elections honest and that there will be a quiet revolution in Thailand leading to reform of the government.

Most farangs know very little about Thailand and think it is a backward country. The western papers always print negative things about other countries. It makes me angry because the people who downgrade Thailand have not been there to see how well developed it is and have never made Thai friends (going to Thailand as a tourist is not enough; one has to really mix with the Thais, struggle with the language, like the food etc. to "know" the country). At the same time, I hope that the people of Thailand will not be attracted to the worst aspects of North American culture and guard their own culture from pollution while continuing to take advantage of the latest technical developments as they have been doing for many years now. Above all, they should guard their reputation as the politest people in the world. I have no illusions about Thailand and am aware of the slums and the problems in the Issan area, for example, but, strangely enough, it is the country I feel most comfortable in. On a lighter note: where else can you see elephants in the traffic as you can on Sukhumvit Road at night? When people make negative comments about Thailand, I tell them that there are one million Canadian children living at or below the poverty line. That usually shuts them up.

Sorry for the long ramble. I wish you and the Thai nation chok dee maak.

Sincerely,
Brian
Montreal, Canada
comment 147
Thanong date : 15/10/2008 time : 19.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

This is from a reader in Chiang Mai about my article.

Sometimes the minority must take the lead
October 15, 2008


Re: "The tyranny of the minority vs tyranny of the majority", Opinion, October 14.


The so-called "rural majority" is not a proper electorate but a group of straw voters, to coin a phrase, cynically gathered and manipulated by political gangsters. The struggle is like that between Al Capone's heavily armed militia and the FBI than between principled voters and a cynical elite.


But here's the point that nobody dares mention: can an intelligent, well-educated minority champion democracy against an ignorant, uneducated majority? Of course they can, and more than that, they must - because who else will, or can? Khun Thanong's example of the Boston Tea Party is well-taken indeed, even if he doesn't mention the fact that the small group of blowhards that dumped the tea in Boston Harbour wore war-paint and feathers - which today would translate into the crash-helmets, goggles, neck-scarves and leather gloves adopted by the PAD.


LUNG KIP


CHIANG MAI
comment 146
Thanong date : 15/10/2008 time : 19.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

This is from my friend.

Pi Thanong,

Just had to say that I was too impressed with your "Tyranny of the Minority
VS Tyranny of the Majority". Really brilliant stuff. Trust you are well

KS
comment 145
FOS date : 14/10/2008 time : 19.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Yeah it all sound too god to be true but let's just cross our fingers and see what happens next.

I sure hope they will wake up soon....
comment 144
rad date : 14/10/2008 time : 17.40

Lalida,
That would be nice and convenient, but it doesn't look like it is going to happen that why, that is why we tell our kids to do the homework on Friday night not Sunday night.

"Don't put off for tomorrow what you can do today."
comment 143
FOS date : 14/10/2008 time : 17.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

I think the issue now is first deal with what's within and then deal with what's coming towards us. It is impossible to deal with any external crisis when the internal are in a mess. Now is the time issue of how fast thay can come into some sense before it's too late when all crisis will hiting us a one go.
comment 142
rad date : 14/10/2008 time : 17.10

Lalida,
Could agree with you more if it were just that simple, the next tumor is knocking on the door (Cambodia) and the financial one is just behind that.

They can't handle what they have now, how are they going to fair in an international crisis?

Forget PAD and put your efforts into bringing government around, as you said PAD will not listen to reason so what is the point in telling them anything. If all pro government people supported them in being better governors they would have no choice. If the government becomes an effective governing body that would put PAD out of business, just a bunch of old men on soap boxes in the park.

Every since I have been here it has been the squeeky wheel that gets the grease, Thai style? So maybe if the squeeky wheel is demanding a better level of government they will listen.

PAD is a tumor, but it is not life threatening unless it is not dealt with. It is too late to ignore them. The police lack the necessary training and resources to effectively deal with dispersing them, so talk is all that is left. If that doesn't work we will probably see a new government.
comment 141
FOS date : 14/10/2008 time : 14.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

I think both you and I are actually agreeing to the same thing but just a different angle of approach.

Your're right, to have our people to unite at this time it's gonna be a real difficult task but not impossible. The main issue is who is going to make the first move and my opinion is, it has to be the educated middle class as they do see things more widely then the rurals....

Second issue you've mentioned, I agree and no arguements to it but the situation now seems to be quite diifferent, we have a bunch of idiots making unreasonable demands, so how is one to deal with it and they're being totally unreasonable. My take is not until this tumor is taken out, there will be no peace or unity in this country.
comment 140
GGrass date : 14/10/2008 time : 10.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

rakbkk: Bring back that management board?

Right. What an orgy for you.

Actually, I wouldn't mind having that team back.
comment 139
rad date : 14/10/2008 time : 10.06

Lalida,
"First the people in this country have to unite before tackling whatever the government does wrong otherwise there will be no end to the crisis we're facing."

That is probably the best way, but is also probably the most difficult to bring about. How can you unite the people when they still are taking sides?

The fishermen had a common enemy and a common goal.

Divided people have each other as enemies, they don't have a common goal, unless it is that both want their side to win.

My contention is that the only one with the power to change government is the government, but they need the power of the people behind them to make that happen. They need to know the direction the people want them to go.

What common issue will focus their attention?

Political unrest, which seems large hasn't done it, when the economy becomes crushing on the poor they may gather together and force some agreements.


The crimes or not of political parties are a separate issue. If the government is disbanded you are still going to want the new one to serve the people, even if it is the same bunch, they need to know what you want of them.
comment 138
FOS date : 13/10/2008 time : 21.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad, to add a little bit more. The biggest mistake is right in front of your eyes. Have not one of you don’t notice the other parties are not being criticized including the Dems, why is it only the PPP ‘s the only ones that’s being accused of buying votes and the EC and other official establishment are seeking to dissolve them. Is it true that the others did not do any vote buying regardless they won or not? Is it true that they didn’t do anything wrong at all? The media, the elite, the scholar, and the middle class all pointing fingers at the PPP elected government. This kind of behavior only creates divisions; the rural will only feel that the party they elected is not being treated fairly which is a true fact.

They can perform whatever check and Balance they want but don’t miss out the majority who holds the votes and let them see that you are performing the check and balance fairly to everyone and if they can do just that, I’m sure the next elected government will be elected by one group of 80% of Thais or even bringing it down.

First the people in this country have to unite before tackling whatever the government does wrong otherwise there will be no end to the crisis we're facing.
comment 137
FOS date : 13/10/2008 time : 20.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

I quote from my C126:-

"There’s nothing in this world that cannot be solve, first we have to educate the others who doesn’t have the ability to understand what’s going on by means of education, true reports and communications instead of just leaving them in one spot and shout on your own. This will be the work of the seniors who are more educated."

And true, we've done the first part and now it's your part to do the check and balance and if you found something is wrong with it, not only you should make your voices heard alone but also to educate the ones that don't see it and if you don't, that particular group who did the first part will forever do the same without changes and you can forever scream you head of. True or False. First unti between ourselve before we go deal with the problems, with people going different direction is not going to help anyone or solve a problem.

You cannot block a seaport with just one boat but many and to archive that you have to explain and show the other boats where and what is wrong in order for them to agree to join.
comment 136
rad date : 13/10/2008 time : 20.32

Lalida,
Too be honest, I think you already did that part when you elected the current government. The next step is to make them do heir job. Based on my limited experience here, I would say that the people have never told the government what they expected of them, at least not without force.

Thanong, said something like there are three parts for the elected, getting elected, which they have done, then the job, which they have not, then exiting, which they have plenty of practice at doing.

The people have never, in my impression, been involved in expressing their wants and needs while the government is in a position to listen. This is new to the people and the government.

Look at the fishermen down here, they wanted the oil company to compensate them for disturbing their fishing grounds, the local politicians either couldn't or wouldn't help, so they blocked the harbor with 200 or 300 boats and got action.

Should have been a lot easier than that, their elected guys should have been taking care of their voters or at least made a big effort to do so.

The guys down here don't have a PAD to use as an excuse, they don't have any excuse, they either don't understand their duties or don't care.
comment 135
FOS date : 13/10/2008 time : 19.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad C134,

I'm confused on your comment but any how, what I was trying to say is we as the workers first have to unite before we can deal with the mis-management.....or am I wrong on that issue?
comment 134
rad date : 13/10/2008 time : 19.25

Lalida,
All of those you describe are the government, they work to deliver a service to the people, if too many on the team fail, the team fails, if most do their jobs the people win.
comment 133
FOS date : 13/10/2008 time : 17.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Manc,

Thankyou for understanding...
comment 132
ys-lai date : 13/10/2008 time : 17.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

The critical flaw in Thailand is LAW & order became the TOOL to suppress other political opponents. Military and royal family are untouchable and above the Law.

With such immunity; no wonder there are more than 30 military coups happen in Thailand. This is gun point politic; can only invite opportunists to capitalize on this short coming.

Corruption is NORM and perhaps became a tradition for Thailand. Thaksin or not Thaksin is not even the key issue. How many military coups already happen in the past. Do it change for better government.

The key issue is independent Court of Justice; and good Law enforcement as security guard.
A security guard is a guard not a ruler.

Thai take security GUARD as their supreme ruler????

That’s the key issue; the rest is irrevalent.
comment 131
manc date : 13/10/2008 time : 17.42

FOS, I do accept your views and I respect them too. Honestly I am not trying to convince anyone of my view, I simply just want to share them, to explore other thoughts and point of views. I am not angry or bitter than we think differently. On the contrary, it is good as we can learn from each other.

About hating our current politicians. I don't hate or blame them for who they are or where they come from but I blame them because they are better off than most Thais, thus they can choose what to do. They are not into politics becuase they have to, but because they choose to. It is pretty much like a charity work. Politicians should do things in the best ineterests of the community and the country, and not their own benefits. Most politicans should be specialist or elitists in their professions, hence having required knowledge and experience.

Thus we should not give politicians second chance or excuses when they do something wrong, as this would only encourage them to have another go at corruption and making their own benefits. Thais are easy to forgive and forget. Maybe if punishment are more serious and severe there would be less corrupted politicians. And once we achieve that we can start setting examples to our sub-ordinates.

We Thais may hate to admit it but we do turn a blind eye to a lot of things. Prostitution and gamblings are illegal, but look at the number of gambling dens and massage parlours (i.e. Poseido) in BKK. I'm sure there are less starbucks and Mcdonalds. This is just an observation of course. I admit I'm not exactly the most moral person
comment 130
rakbkk date : 13/10/2008 time : 17.31

Manc, your analogy is incomplete, you forgot about the previous management which has been debarred from business for 5 years for being too competitive.

Can we bring the old management back! even if without the previous CEO! that management had some of the best managers for their respective departments that we had seen in decades.
comment 129
FOS date : 13/10/2008 time : 17.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Manc,

You are not reading my reply and try to understand what I'm saying, your mind is totally blocked with your own judgment without analysing the issue.

I'm saying it once again as I've said it to Plaadip.....

"Am I suppose to change your mind of what you're stuck with?". I seek discussion and knowledge and not arguement nor trying to prove who's right or who's wrong.

I might be wrong in my content but I'm ready anytime to accept others views point when it's logical.
comment 128
manc date : 13/10/2008 time : 17.04

FOS, you are so good at changing contents and taking it out of context. Eduacate the workers you siad. Are you still blaming the workers? Do you really think people are so clueless about current politics? Sometimes people do things not because they want to, but because they have to. I'm sure many cops hesitated against the violence on 7th October but it is just probably not worth it for them to become unempoyed by challenging their superior as they have family to feed. It is the managers that need to be educated or replaced.

In normal companies and factories managers and specialists should be hired according to their ability, hence we have interviews and tests.
In an ideal democracy politicians should be wise, respectatble and charismatic. Take a look at our current batch of politicians.

Someone once said to me "Thai society and politics are so rotten, rotten to the core like a polluted river, the best one can do is try and adapt to the pollution."

So I said to him why not clean out the pollution, at which point he laughed at me. Well, that's the Thai tradition and conservative way of life for you.

Does progress always come from radical changes?
comment 127
FOS date : 13/10/2008 time : 16.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

C127 manc,

Yes, you have brought up so many valid points but the issue now is people are dealing with their own hatred instead of the matter of the country. Have you not until now realizse it is not the work that they've done that those people are after but who and where they're coming from?
comment 126
FOS date : 13/10/2008 time : 16.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Manc,

I totally agree with your analogy and the result of it will be the company totally collapse and be out of business and there’s no one to be blame any further.

Answer to: 1, 2 and 3

There’s nothing in this world that cannot be solve, first we have to educate the others who doesn’t have the ability to understand what’s going on by means of education, true reports and communications instead of just leaving them in one spot and shout on your own. This will be the work of the seniors who are more educated.

If the management hears all the voices of all his workers instead of just a group, they just might change their management system and there will be no need for them to move to a new management and if they don’t hear and all the workers moved out, the management has no one to blame except themselves. So, the first step is, let’s educated our fellow workers with communication instead of just leaving them in one corner, by doing that, the management will never change and the only thing that will change is you and that group of yours will be out of the scene. You want to built a structure, you start from the basic “The Pillars”.
comment 125
manc date : 13/10/2008 time : 16.22

Yes, it is true that a lot of time people are going around circles with these political topics, but try to understand that you cannot just "look at the big picture". Poltics, economics and social studies may be about the public, the masses, but one should remember that democracy is about the equality and rights of all citizens, hence 1 person 1 vote.

I agree that it is repetitive and complicated to look at everything in details but sometime it is important because, by just "looking at the masses or the big picture" we end up generalising. Each person has their own need and feelings. It may be easy to choose between government and PAD, but if we look at the minor details, zoom in to each profession needs and feelings.
Why is it that Thai cops are so corrupted? Are they just bad people, or maybe they're just not getting paid enough? Does that mean the police lack funding? Are the citizens not paying their taxes? Where does all the money go?
comment 124
manc date : 13/10/2008 time : 16.15

FOS, you should also see my analogy of this current government.

The Boss is incompetent and did not become the boss because of his ability. The managers and supervisors are also poorly appointed. Hence, when the quality of the products is poor, the one being blamed are the workers since bosses, mangers, and supervisors are too spineless and incompetent to take responsibility.

So I asked you what can we, the public do?

1. Support the management even though they're a buch of incompetent fools.

2. Don't do anything, free market will sort itself out.

3. Try a new management team? Change the mangement System?
comment 123
FOS date : 13/10/2008 time : 16.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Manc,

We talk and discuss to understand the situation better. If we keep going round in circles, the understanding will never appear.....
comment 122
manc date : 13/10/2008 time : 15.57

FOS , well your last comment was very educational. Why talk and discuss when we can figure it out ourselves? If not, I'm probably not clever enough.
comment 121
FOS date : 13/10/2008 time : 15.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Manc,

If you're going to debate through sentence or words instead of seeing the analogy I've put up, there's no point in this debate, as I've said, we'll be going round in circles again.

As to what one should do, if you're a citizen or the ones I've mentioned. figure it out yourself what is the right thing to do.
comment 120
manc date : 13/10/2008 time : 15.49

Quote
"What happen to the KING of Thailand???? He lose his power since 1932…… a figure head only. That’s the fact perhaps most of Thai refused to admit…… "

I really am not sure what you are trying to achieve with these types of comment. And all your suggestions about the court verdicts on PAD too. If all those things you said are worthy of treason, I'm pretty sure Thaksin's corruption charge against Thailand can also be called treason, not because he was richer than everyone else, but because he was the PM. He should know better.

Imagine someone like Tony Blair is charged with similar case as Thaksin, how do you think the British public would react. What about Bill Clinton?

And what do you propose HMK do? Execute them all? That would go down well with the rest of the World wouldn't it?

So when the court goes against you, you call it lawless? But they're lawful and well functioned when a very rich man can buy all their verdicts?
comment 119
manc date : 13/10/2008 time : 15.35

FOS, your comment about factory, bosses and workers are quite interesting, as I own a factory myself. It is true that these days you can hire managers and supervisors to do the routine work for you, but you also must remember that a good boss should know how everything is run and operated in his factory. He cannot just point fingers and then leave to play golf for the rest of the day.

About the boss coming down to fix the mechanical problems himself, well actually I do that everynow and again to make sure that my workers and managers are not slacking off.

On supervisors and managers, I compare them to ministers, and with the appointment of Dr.Chalerm as the minister of health I cannot help but feel sorry for doctors in Thailand. Shouldn't there be some kind of pre-requisites or relevant qualifications for someone to be assigned as a minister to each ministry? I mean you wouldn't assign you head security (in a company) to be manager of quality control or head of accountant would you? Does democracy function well in companies, or taking it even further, almost anything else in our capitalistic society?, except for the election.

Quote
"All I can say is, wake up people and start making your own move instead of just pointing. Pointing at people is not a nice thing to do nor is it good manner. "

And what do you suggest we do? Join the PAD? Support the Government? Stay Neutral? Any other choice?
comment 118
FOS date : 13/10/2008 time : 14.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

Look at it this, without the workers there's no Boss, without the Boss, there's no workers.

In a factory, do you expect the Boss to come down to the factory to fix machanical problems with the machine? Do you expect him to come and solve the problems between workers, there's also a group of people call supervisors and managers, isn't there?

The Boss has his own job to do and so does the Supervisors and Managers, the workers themselves also have their own part of duty.
comment 117
rad date : 13/10/2008 time : 14.36

Lalida, ys-lai,
What then is the government's job? I thought it was to run the country, am I wrong?
Isn't being the leader one of their primary jobs?
comment 116
ys-lai date : 13/10/2008 time : 14.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

“By example shall we lead” is golden rule.

Is it an excuse for court given immunity to PAD leaders to force entry into government office etc. etc.

I am not defending Thaksin since there is legal proceeding which is NORM. Thaksin major assets of amounting Billions is freezed by Court injunction. This is paid by Singapore Government sovereign fund into Bangkok account for telco’s share; I am certain money still freezed on suspected Tax evasion as claim by prosecutor.

Court proceeding can still going on; from my understanding the court already made judgment on Thaksin’s case but holding the a verdict mystery till NOW for no apparent reason???? I suspect since this case is related to suspected tax evasion. Probably maximum judgment is double penalty on sum on tax evasion if any.

Thaksin’s share on Telco is Public listed company and buyer is Singapore Government; such transaction should be cystal clear. I am very certain; there is unlikely of heavy penalty of confiscation of total amounting to Billions dollars. If money was released after penalty verdicted by the Court. One can imagine what Thaksin can do….. with such large sum of money.

What’s Thaksin have now in overseas is relatively SMALL versus amount freezed in Bangkok’s Bank instigated by Military coup.

LAW & order already firmly established by Court prosecution and strongly controlled by military. Why the PAD protest is all about, then???? This is entirely different issue; because military and PAD failed to regain their power in Government due to strong resistant voters from rural areas.
They cannot win any elections hence, wishing to create chaotic situation to justify another military coup for dictatorship ruling as their ultimate goal. That’s the fact if success they are rulers if failed they are traitors……..

Due to above reason, of course, the Court had to drop prosecution of treason on PAD; since military coup itself also TREASON.

This is my point: of LAWLESS state of Thailand today and probably since 1932 with over 30 military coups…. No TREASON charge against any military general????

What happen to the KING of Thailand???? He lose his power since 1932…… a figure head only. That’s the fact perhaps most of Thai refused to admit……
comment 115
FOS date : 13/10/2008 time : 14.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

I’m not pointing my finger at anyone in this blog; I just want to put some facts into it. It seems to me that when a Blogger runs out of points to debate, he will then take out the rusted bullets to shoot at. Back to square one “Thaksin”. Honestly, what’s the point? Even if he is involved as you might guessed right, he’s far away and what you’re going to do about it? Harass the British embassy? Pressure the court to do what they have already done? I believe they have done their part already and now they have to wait for the guy to come back, if he ever comes back that is…. Why not be more sensible to deal with the present situation in this country, things that’s happening daily right in front of your eyes instead of shouting across the Ocean? It doesn’t make much sense does it?

“Reconciliation” I almost see and hear this word daily on TV, Blogs, comments and it seems that people are relying on the Politicians or the Government to archive that? It also don’t make too much sense to me. Should it not start by the people themselves? For example, the media, the elites, and the scholar they all can make a helping hand to achieve the goal of this simple but complicated word “Reconciliation”. Everyone rely on the government to do this and do that and what have they done themselves so far? NOTHING except using their fingers to point making sure it still works.

All I can say is, wake up people and start making your own move instead of just pointing. Pointing at people is not a nice thing to do nor is it good manner.
comment 114
Ian date : 13/10/2008 time : 13.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Ravej, The people with competence and ability do not want to get involved, this is a uniquely Thai condition that I have not met in any other country.
You probably understand the reasons for this better than I do, I am sure it has cultural roots perhaps it also has ethnic roots.
I have noticed that in Malaysia and Indonesia the naturalised Chinese are the ones who get ahead, yet at the same time keep a low profile, they find this safest.
In Thailand the naturalised Chinese are more noticeable in spite of changing their family names. Correct me if I'm wrong but most Thai politicians seem to have whole or partial Chinese backgrounds.
However, even here I suspect that the more able Chinese keep a low profile like their counterparts in other countries. To quote an English saying, " If you are useless at business then enter politics".
My personal hope it that once the economic crisis starts to really bite in Thailand, these people keeping their distance will realise that in order for them to survive they will need to take a more active role in the management of the country.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there are no capable Thais, simply that they, like their Chinese counterparts, have learnt to keep a low profile.
comment 113
Ravej date : 13/10/2008 time : 13.04

Ian,

"We don't need a government of reconciliation, or a cross party alliance, we need a party which sees its primary goal as the elimination of all these inconsistences, so everyone knows where they stand".

And where praytell will find this knight in shining armor? (I agree with you that PAD is not that knight).

I think reconcilliation is needed and I don't see it coming from any sector other than from the more established political parties like Barnharn's group, Big Jiew, the Democrats, etc. I don't think we will see any of the smaller political parties becoming viable forces of reform in the near futue so a coalition government of the big existing parties and players seems inevitable. Of course, I hope to be proven wrong and see the party you describe come into power. Come to think of it so would most of the 60 million + thais in this country.

Best,

Ravej
comment 112
Thanong date : 13/10/2008 time : 12.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Khun Ravej:
Thank you for your comment. That's why I have written Tyranny of Minority and Tyranny of Majority -- both sides have flaws and legitimacies in mixed respects. And that's why we are stuck in the box. There are subtleties going on in Thai politics. Unfortunately, some readers such as ys-Lai don't get my message about the dilemma we are facing because YS-Lai would like to see things in black and white.
comment 111
Ian date : 13/10/2008 time : 12.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong has departed but his blog won't die, seems a bit like Thaksin and the PAD
The most recent blogs just seem to be rehashing the same old ground, we are going around in circles.
Can we not agree that there are many inconsistencies in Thailand, politically, legally in in how justice is applied.
Remove these inconsistencies and many problems will depart. The PAD is not a knight in shining armour, it simply is just another facet of these inconsistences, of which the government is yet another facet.
We don't need a government of reconciliation, or a cross party alliance, we need a party which sees its primary goal as the elimination of all these inconsistences, so everyone knows where they stand.
comment 110
GGrass date : 13/10/2008 time : 12.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

Govt and PAD should talk like this:

"Ku k mai dee, mueng k mai dee, rao ma kui kan dee kwa..."
comment 109
manc date : 13/10/2008 time : 12.20

YS-lai, by any international standard, Thaksin should be in jail right now. I agree with you that given normal circumstances what PAD is doing now is a great crime, but the current government is far from normal.

I do not think that all PAD followers are just puppets being pulled by figures behind the scene. They may have commited crimes by protesting or rioting but you cannot deny the crime commited by this government and its benefactor.

That is why I say "Leaders should lead by example".
comment 108
Ravej date : 13/10/2008 time : 11.56

A great article Khun Thanong! It should be required reading for Thais & expats alike. Have you shared it with the Economist? Of course, however, I don't expect the Economist to truly understand Thailand or to report about our country in a balanced manner so I'm sure the magazine won't bother reading it even if you gave it them. Kinda makes you think what other stories they've misrepresented over the years....

I think we can agree that sometimes democracy (like capitalism) can fail. Wikipedia states that: "Democracy is a form of government in which the supreme power is held completely by the people under a free electoral system". IMHO, it is questionable whether Thailand is/was ever truly a democracy since the true power (in the form of wealthy, self-interested but charismatic politicians able to play the role of the old-style patron) seem to be able to influence the mostly poor rural electorate almost with impunity decade after decade. Also the system of checks and balances as you so rightly pointed out have been compromised under many regimes including the Thaksin governments. Thankfully as you noted the courts are taking a more active role in strengthening Thai democracy. The fact that pro-Thaksin supporters say that judges have no right to judge popularly elected politicians shows their misunderstanding of democracy.

Having said all of that, I'm not quite sure I can agree with the actions of the PAD demonstrators (especially after their seize of Government House), though I appreciate their frustrations and their desire for political reform. I really hope to see a national unity/reconciliation government in the near future.

I'll keep checking back to your blog. Please keep up the great work!
comment 107
manc date : 13/10/2008 time : 11.29

Quote:
"There is court proceeding on Thaksin’s case intigated by powerful military with over USD 2 billions assets freezed before judgment. Is this not sufficient???? "

Apparently no, beacuse he still had lots of money left to influence Thai politics, not to mention his buying of Manshester City.

I mean in other respectable developed countries, a convicted ex-PM like Thaksin would probably have left the political scene altogether. He got so much money anyway, why not just live peacefully and leave behind all of this mess. Instead he funded the PPP, which is a blatant replacement for the Thai Rak Thai party, and now his brother in law is the PM. I'm sure a lot of people try to be neural and fair, but when all the connections just lead back to Thaksin, it is hard not to be suspicious.

It seems that Thai politicians are just too stubborn to call it a day. Look at Japan or South Korea. Even with just a little hint of corruption, fraud and public discontent their PMs stepped down.

I am not taking sides with PAD here, but I am not turning a blind eye to this "family-business" style of government. There is no law that a brother-in-law of the ex-PM cannot become a PM but with all the previous contreversies this is just too easy for the PAD to use it against the current government.
comment 106
ys-lai date : 13/10/2008 time : 11.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

Who is turning a blind eye??? There is court proceeding on Thaksin’s case intigated by powerful military with over USD 2 billions assets freezed before judgment. Is this not sufficient???? As for Thaksin jump bail with USD2 billions at stake; it is also a high price to pay by any International standard. Furthermore, there is complicated court procedure to go through International Court proceeding to get justice or repatriation.

How much bail did 9 PAD leaders paid to get out of Court???? And able remains to protest??? Without court proceeding already drop the prosecution of treason??? Treason mean:
“A offence of acting to overthrow one’s government or to harm or kill its sovereign.”

What PAD leaders did is exactly committing such offence :

1).force entry into Government office with more than 2,000 adminstrative staffs and still illegal occupied the Government office till now.
2). Blockage on International airport.
3). Blockage with barricade, steel bar and weapon to prevent MPs for meeting.

This is not peaceful protest; this is RIOT…. You guy seems can’t see the differences.

On what ground; the court give immunity to PAD’s leaders????
comment 105
manc date : 13/10/2008 time : 10.11

I think a few people in here are getting rather personal and in the process lose sight of the order of events, cause and effect.

It is true that what PAD is doing now is against the law and can probably be seen as babaric by many, but leave PAD aside for the moment. If one look at the current government one cannot ignore its connection to Thaksin. This in itself raises many important questions and suspicions.

One cannot turn a blind eye to the corruption charges against Thaksin and his nominees of PMs, while at the same time call PAD protesters babric and undemocratic.

I don't see why Samak conviction is a joke, maybe he's the first PM ever convicted form his position in this way because he is the firste ever PM to be stupid enough to commit these charges in the first place.

Leaders such as PMs and Ministers should lead by example. There is a fine line between privileges and abusing your power. Ralistically we all have to admit that everyone do things for their own benefits, but we also have to respect the rules and laws that we invented to keep our society civil. If the PM can evade taxes, then why can't everybody else evade taxes? When found guilty this PM flew off to London. It is not surprising really that PAD are doing whatever they are doing at the moment.

Thailand has been lawless for a while now, not just when the PAD started protesting.
comment 104
GGrass date : 13/10/2008 time : 10.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

Wow... what a long blog.... and even longer comments!
comment 103
ys-lai date : 13/10/2008 time : 08.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

Thanong & Rad,

I agreed with FOS; basically Military & PAD wanted a dictatorship ruling; but pretending Holy crusade for who???? For sake of the King???

[quote]
Thanong wrote:-

What PAD is trying to do is to stage a People's Revolution. IN the revolution, you need to break law or occupy Government House. If they succced, they are hero. If they fail, they are villains.

[unquote]

In conclusion, Thailand now is LAWLESS country; revolution, rebellion, riots, killing rape and daylight rubbery riots like Indonesia riot organized by military on Chinese dissidents are perfectly OK, too. FYI, not a single court case charged against any person with thousands of dead up to now in Indonesia.

Perhaps there is acceptable idea for Bangkok elite like Thanong and Rad. The winner take all, by hook or by crook. Since the winner write the LAW and history.

Yr idea may work 100 years ago; you guy are behind time and perhaps is last generation of extinct species.
comment 102
FOS date : 12/10/2008 time : 22.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

If I reply to your comments point by point, I’m going on a ride on a merry go round with you and there’s no end to it. I do not wish to point finger on either side anymore. All I know is our elected government was not being treated fairly and surely not under fairness of the law, Thaksin was brought down by a coup and not justice and definitely not democratically, Samak step down because the judges convicted him with a joke to the world, If I’m not wrong, he’s the first PM in the world that got his position snatched out of a cooking show. This coward Somchai is about to move out because he couldn’t take the heat and even if he could, the officials of different sector will work with the so called Law to bring him down one way or another.

All in all, not only the PADs, but the people of the public (middle-class) , the people who claims they represents justice and law, the people who suppose to speak the truth and nothing but the truth are turning their face to one side. I see no fairness and justice in this country and I’m totally fed up with it and that’s why I decided not to Blog about it anymore.

If what you or the other feels is right to force a government to step down undemocratically anytime you wish then I don’t see a point of election. Why not simply make appointments or even nomination within a group of so called elite or professionals. That way not only it save time and money but the selected can also be changed quite easily at any time when they don’t like his performance.

Honestly, Forget about that entire BS of democracy, the whole issue is nothing but a case of trying every way to bring the democratically elected government down undemocratically, period.
comment 101
rad date : 12/10/2008 time : 20.43

Lalida,
If it were a true or false question how would you answer, The government has been a success T F

Forgiving them is nice but the country is going down the toilet. If you wish, it was/is PADs fault, but history will record that the government failed. It is failing now, the new guy wants to quit, that doesn't smack of success.

All while the PAD was doing whatever they were doing, what was the government doing? They were giving Dr T his passport back, were working a deal with the NGV bus people, were giving King Power their stuff back, and were working out a great rice scheme. Occasionally they would move to change the charter.

They said they spent six months working out a plan to deal with the economy, free train and bus and a couple of other minor things, wow. PAD was a little thing, which they allowed to become a big thing, my guess is because they were terrible managers and discounted PAD and began the old line the pockets deal and maybe just maybe it was a distraction from the projects.

Lalida, PAD is not responsibile for the good of the country, not their job, looks like not even their goal. Now, add in this, many anti PAD folks are saying that PAD is small not a major voice, just a few intellectiuals and some paid participants, if that were so, how could so few people cripple a government. Either there are way more than is being stated by the anti PAD people or the government is weaker than I am portraying them.

In any case, this is only my opinion and two this is not an either or thing, this is your government needing to look after you.
comment 100
FOS date : 12/10/2008 time : 18.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Rad,

Your comment seems a bit extreme to me. It’s just like a Boss saying to his manager, if you can’t fulfill my target then you’re no good without hearing what the manager has to explain not with an excuse but with facts.

The fact is the last 2 PM was never given a chance to govern…and that’s a fact.
comment 99
rad date : 12/10/2008 time : 18.38

ys-lai,
how about you think about this issue from a right and wrong stand point, keep it simple and stick with what has happened.

The PPP a political party was elected by the people, based on a constitution written under a military junta and ratified by the voters.

Now which election is right or wrong? Both stem from the voters oking the constitution. I would guess if one is wrong both are, but you pick.

The government was unable to govern, you can pick the reason, but the end result was they didn't get the job done. Blaming someone else may make them feel better but it doesn't help the country.

You are a businessman and if you can't deliver to your clients they will hold you responsibile, pretty simple.
comment 98
ys-lai date : 12/10/2008 time : 18.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

Thanong

I don’t know what’s logic of false husband related to politic in Thailand??? If is false husband that’s mean the wife is false as well. Either she is whore or casual sexual partner???

Then, who is real husband with force marriage with a gun and protest against the will of rural wife refused to acknowledged this particular husband. But you don’t care???? Since he is rich ,powerful and most important intellectual educated. Hence, it is perfect alright for rural women to be sex slave for Bangkok elite. Is it what you wish to make yr stance?????
comment 97
Ian date : 12/10/2008 time : 16.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ok this is comment 100, congratulation Thanong, you have joined a select company
comment 96
FOS date : 12/10/2008 time : 16.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

KHA.... no hard feeling na ja...
comment 95
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 16.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Dear FOS:
The husband is not the real one. The wife can't sleep with fake husbands twice in a row.
What PAD is trying to do is to stage a People's Revolution. IN the revolution, you need to break law or occupy Government House. If they succced, they are hero. If they fail, they are villains.

This is the way of the world.

Don't ask me to explain about PAD again because they are not my father. And I have no business to defend them. I just tell you all what they are doing.
comment 94
Ian date : 12/10/2008 time : 16.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, i"ve just noticed, don't quit yet, you have nearly made your first century
comment 93
Ian date : 12/10/2008 time : 16.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, no I do not insist, I suggested, not the same:-) Everyone writes under constraints, they are cultural. linguistic, academic, there may also be emotional or economic constraints. We cannot avoid them. You cannot avoid being a Thai anymore than I can avoid being and Englishman, it shows in the way we write. I don't mean grammar and spelling but in choice of words and literary style.
But it also shows in the way we handle certain topics, particularly the monarchy, you emphasis that the Thai monarchy is above politics. Yet logically this cannot be, the King at least through the Crown property bureau (is that the correct name?), is a businessman and no businessman can ignore politics. What I think should be more correct to say is that the King keeps his political views to himself.
But this is another digression, please start another interesting blog
How about the role of monks and Buddhism in modern Thai society? You rather ignored them in your present blog.
comment 92
FOS date : 12/10/2008 time : 16.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

I clearly understand what you are trying to explain to me and believe me I’ve read a few time before I come up with this reply.

Your analogy, True and fair but I have one question: What if the Husband was never given a chance to perform his duty during the course of marriage……Let’s not put Thaksin back into the picture but just Samak and Somchai….

The content of democracy is not there until one have a chance to perform it, is that not right? I’m also a person who does not like to go on with a subject that's going round in circle but to the point….I agree with you with what to have explain to me but I think you’re not seeing my point though.
comment 91
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 15.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

THANK YOU FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION. LET'S MOVE TO ANOTHER SUBJECT IN ANOTHER BLOG BECAUSE WE ARE GOING AROUND THE CIRCLE.
comment 90
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 15.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Dear FOS:
I have tried to explain to you how to look at democracy from different angles. But you keep on coming back with PAD's violation of the law, like ys-Lai. That's why Thailand is in the box as I have written in my article.
The more I answer your questions the more you'll treat me as PAD or Military Apologist, which I am not. All parties are to be blamed. But the people who should be blamed most of all the key players are the Politicians as I have argued.

I would rather stop the buck here.
comment 89
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 15.40
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Thank you Ian. I have written an article of more than 4,000 words to explain the Thai dilemma. And you still insist that I have written under constraints and and try to hide something. Indeed, this article can be developed further academically into a master thesis on political science.
comment 88
FOS date : 12/10/2008 time : 15.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

A reply to C#69,

K. Thanong, do excuse me to cut and paste your comment but that's the only way I know how to write out my points.....

(The next stage, in which we are now, involves the Somchai government's managing of the political power. This is a more difficult task. To manage the country through the remaining term, the government must try to build up a consensus and get broad-based support among the people, who either voted for it or voted against it. In other words, it must try to keep its supporters happy and have the least number of people objecting its rule.)

I ask, from day one up to the date he got forced out of the office, was he ever given a chance to manage the country through crisis? Was he able to keep its supporters happy and have the least number of people objecting its rule? With the PAD continuously attacking the government, which one should he deal with firsts, the welfare of the people, the economic crisis or the stability of this country?

(If the government fails to manage its power by bringing the minority group of people on board, as is now the case, it would find it difficult to continue to rule. The voice of the minority, whose members are also Thais, is legitimate too.)

I agree but the true fact is that the minority group of people you’ve mentioned refuse to go on board or be reason with, isn’t that right? It is true and in fact very true that they are Thais as well and their voice should be respected but not unreasonable demand. Am I correct?

(The protesters staged the rally at first to demand Samak's resignation on the grounds that he is acting as nominee for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra; his government sold off the Temple of Preah Vihear to Cambodia; his government tried to amend the Constitution to protect the interests of the politicians; among others.)

Let’s talk facts, the PAD never did have any agenda’s, the only purpose they have is to bring down the democratically elected government through Mob and put up the one they desire, is that not a true fact and even a 3 years old kids can see…

(Which brings us to the third and final stage, which involves the process of stepping down from power. If government manages the political power to the satisfaction of most Thais, it can survive four years. If not, it has to explore the process of stepping down or avoid being booted out.)

How one can satisfy the Thais that are unreasonable and performs barbaric act, will you be able to answer to anyone that what PAD and his supporters did was legitimate? Will you deny that an average Thai will see their act as illegal act under the rules of Law?

(Somchai can't stay on for long because his government has lost LEGITIMACY when the police force started to attack the crowd on October 7.)

The Nation and the majority of media and now even you use the word “ATTACK”. Why is it not the other way round? Police stand ground upholding the law is call attack, then invading the Government House and NBT, what word should we call it. Do you not see it as “DEFENDING and PROTECTING” the property of the 60 millions Thais? Do you not see our law makers are being block to perform their work, do you not see that they were being locked –in in an uncivilized way? I suppose you agree to the act of the anti-government protesters has the legitimacy? The democrats secretly sending false information to the foreign envoy are call legitimate, have the Nation mentioned one word or one article about it except a brief report about them returning the 200,000. Is it not a serious case on the issue, in a mind of the educated, should they not be called traitors? Is it not a purpose to shame their own country country or to bring down the government? Did the media make noise about it…..The answer is none.

I've got more to come but need time to read it through...he he he..
comment 87
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 15.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Dear ys-Lai:
Ok, I try to address your questions.
1. Samak was found to have submitted false evidence involving tax return or something of that sort. He could have been sued for perjury.
2. Thailand is governed by Thai law -- not international law as you have misunderstood.
3. Disbanding a political party goes through the Thai justice system. First, Election Commission must rule that somebody has committed election fraud. This process involves police investigation. Then the EC passes the case on to the Constitution Court. The Constitution Court's ruling is final. This is based on Thai law and Thai constitution -- not military law and international law as you have misunderstood.
4. Police brought charges of high treason against the state against PAD leaders. They appealed that the treason charges were too serious. The Court dropped this treason charge.

So these are factual answers that have nothing to my personal view or inclination. Why do I have to sidetrack your questions which are irrelevantly raised?
comment 86
Ian date : 12/10/2008 time : 15.30
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ys-lai, I think a blog is a personal statement, so one is allowed to have a personal bias. Also I suspect that Thanong is under constraints that do not apply to ordinary bloggers.
Thailand does indeed seem to be on the edge of a precipice, in such a situation I would expect any high profile journalist to tread a careful path.
Even Yoon is moving more towards a middle ground as it becomes clear that the PAD are not automatic winners.
In reality there will be no winners, just a nation of losers.
comment 85
ys-lai date : 12/10/2008 time : 14.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

Ian,

You are right; both of us side track on core issue.

Perhaps Thanong is a better journalist among other; but definitely he is not neutral from my point of view. In view of difficulty being a Thai especially as journalist; he may face a lot of threat with invisible hands.

Thailand is leading towards a civil war; with present uncompromised stance by PAD with hidden support by Military is the fact. Perhaps Thai either are in stage of denial; or simply afraid to speak out the truth.

Thanong, I will not force you to answer; since you may be at risk to speak up your true consciousness under duress.
comment 84
FOS date : 12/10/2008 time : 14.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

Let me read it through carefully and I'll come back to you...
comment 83
Ian date : 12/10/2008 time : 14.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Ys-lai, in fairness I actually said you both were allowing each other to side track the central issue.
I would like to make one other point, whether you agree with Thanong or not, he is the only reporter prepared to publicly argue his case. For this he has my respect, even though as he himself says we often disagree
comment 82
ys-lai date : 12/10/2008 time : 13.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

Ian,

Tks yr comment on Thanong side tracking the issue.

To thanong,

I am really surprised at yr logic??? A thief is crying “Thief”???? Naming other evil don’t mean one is the saint especially when ONE are committing the same unskillful act (unjustication) yet claim himself the righteous one??? I don’t like to use word “Crime”.

Yr question:-
While the Tiananmen dissidents have been treated as heros, the Bangkok dissidents as villain. What are the similarities and differences?

Firstly I don’t name Tananmen dissidents as “heros’; Non do I name Bangkok dissidents as villain.
I surprised you as independent journalist can’t see the differences???

Tiananmen protestors are peaceful sit in protest in the square. They don’t force entry into PM office and occupied administrative office. They don’t block entry into parliament house and or airport causing public disorder.

Bangkok dissidents using FORCE, Block with barricade, steel bar and stone etc causing a lot of public disorder.

I had also debate widely with Westerners on US unfair support on Israel at expense of Palestine is root problem of today hatred of Muslim against the western nations. This is irrevalent to this blog for Thai politic .
Are you afraid to face the Reality in Thailand situation???? Hence, continual choose to avoid my question by yr own statement as follow:-

“If you reply this question, then I shall address yours.” ?????

Thannong pls don’t side track the issue; although I make effort to answer yr counter debate which is irrevalent to issue addressed.
comment 81
Ian date : 12/10/2008 time : 13.24
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong and Ys-lai, you are allowing yourselves to digress away from the central theme. To quote an old saying, "There are different horses for different courses". The invasion of Iraq, Tianamen square, the Tibetan and Burmese riots are all different horses running in different courses. Yes there is a common theme of street protests and bloodshed, but beyond that there are many differences.
The real underlying cause of the present problem has several roots and I would agree that not all westerners understand all these causes. It is not just the real and perceived inequalities between north and south, or rich and poor. It is also a struggle between modern republican ideas and die-hard monarchist ideals. It is a struggle between the created history of Thailand and the real history of Thailand. It is a struggle between corruption, cronyism and the Puyai system, against concepts of democracy and equality. It is a struggle not just of common people against common people but of elite versus elite, where the common people are just disposable pawns. It is a complex battle often waged behind closed doors, a battle in which most people, on both sides, are simply camp followers with no true understanding of the issues they fight for.
I posted an article here, a comment from Jonathan Head of the BBC, he poses questions, these have not been answered. Why not?
The PAD intends to send "books" to all foreign ambassors and legates, do they think these people are also blind?
If Thailand says it is misunderstood by the world is it not the task of the Thai media to explain?
comment 80
ys-lai date : 12/10/2008 time : 12.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

Thanong,

FYI, there is no UN resolution on invasion on Iraq. US & British act without approval of International community. Period. I am surprised you as Journalist not even aware of this????

There is no justification for such invasion. Period.

Do you dare to answer my comment #74 questions now????
comment 79
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 12.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

You know what? When Brahms wrote his violin concerto, he knew every single notes of it and would like it to be performed in a certain way. When one concert violinist interpreted his great violin concerto another way, Brahms, my favourite composer, said with approval: "I did not realise that it could also be played this way."

Nobody is right all the time, even the artist creator of his own work!
comment 78
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 12.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Another question for you.....

How do you compare between street demonstrations in Tiananmen Square in 1989 and street demonstrations in Bangkok in 2008? Why did world opinion support street demonstrations, which was bloodly quashed, in Tiananmen; and why does world opinion object street demonstrations, which so far have not been quashed seriously, in Bangkok or Government House?

While the Tiananmen dissidents have been treated as heros, the Bangkok dissidents as villain. What are the similarities and differences?

Well, second question for you Khun YS-Lai with all respect.
comment 77
ys-lai date : 12/10/2008 time : 12.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

Thanong,

Contradiction is you. Period…… to name outsiders and avoid the debate seems to be Thai’s tactic of denial of the truth.

Yr comment is full of prejustice. Pls answer my five questions on comment #74 seeking your so called independent comment as Thai journalist????
comment 76
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 12.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Dear YS-Lai:
Should Bush and his allies be prosecuted for waging a war in Iraq or Afghanistan? What kind of international law they are using?
If you reply this question, then I shall address yours. Look around the world is big. Don't focus your anger on Thailand alone.
comment 75
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 12.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Some contradictions!!

The outsiders' view holds that Bangkok has no respect for the poor, but they would never invest in Isan.

The outsiders' view holds that Bangkok has no better understanding of democracy than rural, but they say Thailand's education system is the worst among the poor who don't know how to compute.

They say Thailand's need to bridge the income gap by improving education for the poor, but they also say that the poor have better knowledge of democracy thaN Bangkok.

They cherish the majority votes, but when they run companies they only listen to orders from overseas headquarters.

In factories owned by democracy lovers and preachers, workers from Isan have to listen to instruction from supervisors strictly. If they try to form union or rebel, they will be kick out of work.

ETC
comment 74
ys-lai date : 12/10/2008 time : 11.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ys-lai

Thanong,

What’s a prejustice view from so called independent Journalist. No wonder Thailand is in trouble. Yr debate is lack of substance and one-sided view.

LAW and order is what Thailand lacked now.

Since when the elected government having a peaceful management of the country without intervention???

PM office since Samak’s time was forcefully occupied by PAD protestors; where he has no office to run his administration with more than 2000 staffs.

1). A political assassination by the court ruling to oust Samak out due to minor incident of cooking show???? This is your comment of good judgment by Court dominated by invisible hands???

2). By any International LAW: Military coup itself is illegal…….. yet none of general ever prosecuted????

3). By any International law: disbanded TNT party is illegal to participate in election is illegal act only showed Thailand is governed by military Law and not civilian law by International standard.

5). By any International law: No court of law will pardon all the 9 leaders of PAD protestors before trial in court; and even waive the prosecution itself with almost zero prosecution as FACE saving tactic for the court. Itself is prejustice and unacceptable code of conduct by International Law.


What’s a strange country; Now the Court BANNED repeat ban the Police to do their duty to suppress the riot, repeat this is RIOT and not peaceful protest with barricade, steel bars and weapon to block entrance to Parliament house.

How to administrate such a LAWLESS country by elected government???

Only Military LAW prevail in Thailand. Don’t pretend that Thailand is a free country. Just another Burma ruled by Military general behind the scene. Period. Don’t pretend you are independent journalist as you choose to turn blind eye to above incidents.
comment 73
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 11.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

You can't look at Democracy at its form alone. You have to look at Democracy at its content. And the content of DEmocracy in the THAI CONTEXT is complicated. Foreign media and some PR machines are spinning Thai democracy at its form alone to mislead intentionally or not the real situation. Every country has a context of its own.
comment 72
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 11.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

You get upset to the point that you lock the door to prevent the guy from getting into the house (hOW COULD PROTESTERS ILLEGALLY OCCUPY THE STREETS AND THE GOVERMNMENT HOUSE? THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE LAW). The guy says you have no right to prevent him from entering the house, which also belongs to him. He has all the legal right to stay and sleep in the house. You have no right to keep him outside.

This is how the world goes. And please don't make false assumption that I personally supports people to take over the Government House. But the analogy is there. It is a dilemma of Thai society we are facing.
comment 71
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 11.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

During the course of managing your family, your partner of the other sex is a responsible person. He works hard. He takes good care of you and your children. He saves for the family. He can lead the family into the society with honour and pride. You also do your part to nurture the family.

Then the managing of the family runs smoothly fore life!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Stay a full four year term for a government because the politicians manage their power responsibly to the satisfaction of the populace).

But if your partner is irresponsible, he gambles away the money. You protest and he says so why do you marry me?

He comes home late everynight with alcohol in his breath. You protest. He says you are jealous. But I am your husband.

He and you start to throw things at each other. You get hurt. Police come. He said you start it first he only came home late at two o'clock in the morning because he had to entertain his boss.

You start to complain to your friends and your family. But nobody takes you seriously . "Well it is a family matter (ruang phuaæ miaæ ya pai yung). It will be just fine.

Police come. But they say you have to try to work it out. By the way, the guy is your husband. You and the guy have a marriage licence -- a licence to stay with each other for life no matter what happens. (Look at the Polls. You have to respect the outcome of the Election) You become upset.

Now you want to seek a divorce. (Eh. how can you booth out a popularly elected government?Why don't Bangkok people respect the votes of the rural people? What kind of democracy is that?) Your partner says no because you and him have got married. The tie-up and the licence is there for ever. You are violating moral rules by trying not to keep your family intact.

Khun FOS: I am sorry. I hope you don't mind this analogy. But I have to give this analogy to you so that you don't fall into the false argument of majority votes that can do anything against the whole country -- good or bad. If you equate democracy with family matters, you get the whole picture.
comment 70
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 11.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

My Dear FOS:
I have already given you the analogy of love and marriage and democracy. You don't approach democracy at its FORM. You have to approach DEMOCRACY by its content.

So what is marriage (Democracy) then? Obviously, you don't want to think that marriage is what happens at the Dstrict when a clerk issues your and your partner's marriage licence (Election Polls).

For once after the marriage (after the election outcome), everybody knows that you are officially tied to some time as a new family unit. Your family and your friends and the society acknowledge this. (politicians officially become MPs to serve in Parliament or Cabinet; all the Thais accept the outcome. DON'T MAKE FALSE ARGUMENT THAT BANGKOK ELITE DID NOT ACCEPT OUTCOME OF RURAL VOTERS' APIRATION OR VOICE. IF BANGKOK ELITE DOES NOT ACCEPT OUTCOME, HOW COULD MPS OR CABINET SWEAR THE OATH OF OFFICE? ).

But the marriage licence (the election outcome at the booths) is just the beginning of the story. It is finished. Don't stick to it. Don't look at your photo albums all the time and cherish your wedding dress. Now you have to build a family. Now it involves the more difficult more challenging task of raising a family and sharing the responsibility. This is the process of managing the family.

The process of managing the family is more important that the wedding ceremony or the registeration of marriage licence at the local district!!!

This is similar to what PM SOMCHAI is now going through. He is a party list of People Power. Everybody knows that. Everybody accepts that legitimacy. It is over. Now how he is going to manage his power to keep the country moving is a more important question.
comment 69
Thanong date : 12/10/2008 time : 10.40
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

For comment #66 and #68:

There are three processes involved with political power – the process of assuming power, the process of managing power and the process of stepping down from power.

The ruling party -- People Power Party -- has been arguing that since they have been democratically elected by a majority of the Thai people, they must be allowed to run the country till the end of the term as stipulated by the Constitution. Any objection to their rule is looked upon as undemocratic because it represents a minority voice, which does not play by the rule or does not honour the outcome of the majority votes.

This sounds plausible on the surface. But practically all the Thais acknowledged the outcome of the December election in 2007 that brought the People Power Party to power. Samak led his party to a victory and formed a coalition government with five other coalition partners with 315 MPs in Parliament.

After having formed his government, Samak and his Cabinet completed the process of assuming the political power. That initial stage of the process in assuming the political power was over.

Nobody objected that.


The next stage, in which we are now, involves the Somchai government's managing of the political power. This is a more difficult task. To manage the country through the remaining term, the government must try to build up a consensus and get broad-based support among the people, who either voted for it or voted against it. In other words, it must try to keep its supporters happy and have the least number of people objecting its rule.


If the government fails to manage its power by bringing the minority group of people on board, as is now the case, it would find it difficult to continue to rule. The voice of the minority, whose members are also Thais, is legitimate too.


The protesters staged the rally at first to demand Samak's resignation on the grounds that he is acting as nominee for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra; his government sold off the Temple of Preah Vihear to Cambodia; his government tried to amend the Constitution to protect the interests of the politicians; among others.

Which brings us to the third and final stage, which involves the process of stepping down from power. If government manages the political power to the satisfaction of most Thais, it can survive four years. If not, it has to explore the process of stepping down or avoid being booted out.

Throughout history, politicians, once they are in power, do not want to step down easily. They only leave office when they're really being kicked out.

PM Somchai is now exploring the possibility of stepping down from power either through outright resignation or House dissolution after a Constitution Drafting Committee is formed.

Somchai can't stay on for long because his government has lost LEGITIMACY when the police force started to attack the crowd on October 7.

This is the Thai political context.Thailand is not the US whose president stays for four years no matter what happens. In Thai political context, at least this juncture, prime minister comes and go any time. Look at Japan, they also change PM all the time. How about Italy?
comment 68
Outsider date : 11/10/2008 time : 15.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/outsider

K Thanong,while I don't always agree with you, you have as usual presented a well written and articulate argument. My points of contention are:
Don't be fooled by the one minute or one paragraph news reports or analysis on Thailand. I am sure that many of your foreign colleagues will tell you that there is often a difference in what they want to say and can say due to editorial, space and time restrictions. Often we are left with simplistic summaries of situations categorizing people as either pro or anti democratic. News is still a business first and information second. People who actually vote in democracies will attest that Populism, Gerrymandering, Pork Barreling, manipulation and even corruption are all part of the democratic process. Its just that we have been at it a lot longer and use polite politically correct terminology. The return on investment for a seat in the US house of Representatives is far higher than that for a Thai MP. Even if a person serves a 2 year term and is not re elected they are "set for life". The old adage that "slime always rises to the top" is true of politics everywhere because that is what it takes to be successful. Thailand is no different than any other country in this regard but is different in that the monarchy and the military take an active role mainly because the judiciary is weak, inconsistent and often ineffective.
The problem with the PAD's whole agenda is that it smacks of elitism and an attempt to turn back the clock. Thaksin changed the political landscape by empowering a disenfranchised segment of the population the rural poor of the northeast. By sheer numbers alone they can no longer be ignored and this fact needs to be faced which the PAD has not and refuses to accept. I am often shocked as to how condescending and dismissive the Bangkok elite are of the rural poor. This lack of understanding has brought us to the current impasse. Witness Sondhi's call for a military coup now. The military today is not the the same organization it was in 1992 and the constant reference to 1992 shows the lack of understanding as to how much has changed. After 1992 the military under Gen Wimol changed from a populist to a professional organization. The 2006 coup was evidence of this as it was clear that after taking power the military did not know what to do and appointed the "geriatric" government as that was the last point of reference. In short they know full well that they are not equipped to run the country and Gen Anupong to his credit knows it.
comment 67
Ian date : 11/10/2008 time : 14.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, would you say that this quote from the BBC's Jonathan Head is a fair comment?

"There is little doubt that the police were reckless in the way they moved against the protesters.
But there has been surprisingly little condemnation in the Thai media of the PAD's own tactics: the construction of tyre-and-barbed-wire barricades to blockade MPs inside parliament, the use of guns by some PAD supporters against the police, video showing a PAD truck ploughing into a line of police then reversing over the injured body of one officer.

The protesters' tactics have been subject to little scrutiny
There has been no attempt by the Thai papers to trace the source of the PAD's very substantial funding, or of the obviously expert paramilitary training given to some its followers. "

The full text is here:-http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7664064.stm


"
comment 66
FOS date : 11/10/2008 time : 13.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

Sorry miss this one out....

"Foreign media and foreign government look at Democracy as "any result that come out of the election booths".

Should that not be the case? Is it not true that Democracy is the voice of the people or do you feel the act of the Pad's, the elite, the Media and our judges siding is call Democracy?
comment 65
FOS date : 11/10/2008 time : 13.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

I don’t argue with you how people see democracy and in a way I do agree with you but I do have something to say about your comment #36……

I quote “Bangkok middle class understand Democracy as check and balance, governance and an absence of corruption”.

Now can you kindly explain to me if there’s any Balance on the present situation and are you sure the middle-class can perform the check and balance, governance and absence of corruption? Are you telling me that with the understanding and educational background of the middle class with their Check and Balance, there won’t be any more corruption? Is it not a fact that a modern society such as Bangkok, corruptions are greater in numbers? Is it not true that the majority that corrupts are the middle class? Are the majority of officials in Bangkok are from the rural? Are those doctors or professional refusing to perform that profession under oath are not the middle class?

Again I quote “Rural people understand Democracy as a time when the politicians knock at their doors to offer Bt500 or Bt1,000 a head to vote for them, when they can have parties organized by the politicians and when they can go for beach that they have never seen in their life.”

Are you being fair on this one, You send your reporters, cameraman up to rural just to record that I believe but have you sent any of them following the elite in Bangkok middle class with a hidden camera? Have anyone of you made reports on them or did you not bother but concentrate on the rural. You might be right that they probably take the bribe for 500 to a 1000 or even have a chance to have a dip at the beach in Pattaya or even phuket but did it not give you any idea that the middle –class might be taking in 1 million to 2 million and probably a trip to Europe or Disney land in the US?

K. Thanong, I’m not judging you nor do I qualify but I do hope you can be fair to the rural at times and not Bias like the others.
comment 64
budm date : 11/10/2008 time : 13.27

I understand, thanks.
comment 63
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 13.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

My job is to sell Nation alone, sorry.
comment 62
budm date : 11/10/2008 time : 13.17

Thanong, Thank you, by the way, do you have any suggestion with regarding the other Thai internet newspaper in English I can read?
comment 61
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 13.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

PAD wants a coup; police supporting Thaksin want a coup, Chavalit wants a coup. But Army chief does not want coup.
Uhmm..things getting complicated.
comment 60
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 13.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Good luck to you BUDM.
comment 59
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 13.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

You know what? Army chief just said police supporting Thaksin would like to stage a coup on october 7 when the tear gas went exploded!!!!!
comment 58
budm date : 11/10/2008 time : 13.04

Thanong, I am sure Thailand will get there one day, it may be a long hard road, but if it is easy, then, we will not appreciate it when we get there. I will be in Thailand for two weeks in November, hopefully I will be able to get around with no problem, especially the airport will not be shut down by the protester. Thank you for your honesty.
comment 57
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

the stupid 30/70 ratio is repeated again and again about the PAD in all commentaries and articles when in fact it is an idea of one academic from Chula. Some PAD leaders pick it up. But not all the PAD leaders agree with it. They don't know what they want yet.
The people in Government House don't think about the 70/30 seriously. All they want is to get rid of remnants of Thaksin.
Political reform is still a long way. There is no consensus about it yet. Everything is in the air.
comment 56
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian, the quality of the Isan MPs is horrible. This is the dilemma of democracy.
comment 55
budm date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.51

Thanong, I am not really bashing the 30/70, I just get this info from the Nation without real explanation on how it will really work without check and balance on appointing the 70%, which come back to the reporter need to educate the public, for me I can only read the Bangkok post or the Nation on the ineternet, it is hard for me to get to both sides of information without bias.
comment 54
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I have to explain the motives of each group to them. But they all have their own opinions. See this is the way of the world.
comment 53
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Dear BUDM, In my family gathering, we have two Thaksin supporters, 6 PAD lovers, two skeptics, and one saying no to everybody. You can see in my family, it is split too!!!!!
comment 52
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

We have polarisation, urban vs rual. The only way is to have better politics. To have better politics is to prevent bad people from getting hold to power -- that is getting rid of money politics.

I have talked to an ambassador from one of the African countries, he gives good recommendation.

We should have 50% constituency MPs, and 50% party list MPs.

By doing so, we can have more good people to enter politics without having to stand directly in the election. Vote buying will reduce. People will vote constituency MPs and party list MPs.

This is my view. BUDM, please stop bashing the 70/30 ratio because it makes no sense from the outset. It's the idea of one academic, formerly from Chula.
comment 51
budm date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.40

Ian, I agree with you, but that is a great thing about the democracy. Democracy is not a bad thing, it is just that it may take a long time to get there, it is like a goal that you will want to reach with one man one vote with check and balance, there are no such thing yet in any country but as long as we keep educating the people what it means to have democracy it will be a great day, it is not the fault of democracy itself, its the people that do not follow the rule law and not for the good of all people that ruin the democracy.
comment 50
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Correction for #48
In my article, I point out the polarisation in Thai society. I only blame all the problem to THE POLITICIANS alone. If the politicians raise their standard a bit, we won't have this problem.
comment 49
budm date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.26

Now, this is what I call democracy, people can voice a real and true feeling and admit what they believe in. Thank you for telling me what you are standing for and not using the media for your own agenda. I do not mind if you are PADs supporter or not as long as you do not use the media for your own agenda, media should be used for reporting the truth without bias, what you do or support in your private life is your rights and I will not bother me a bit.
comment 48
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

This statement of "the joke" is in response to several articles and comments by stock investment analysts and foreign editorial writers, who have been bashing Bangkok people for the problem of Thai politics and lauding the rural people are the true voice of democracy when democracy in Thailand only takes place for four seconds at the ballot boxes. After that the politicians take it all.

In my article, if you read it carefully, I don't blame the politicians alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
comment 47
Ian date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

BUDM, I think Thanong like any educated Thai faces a dilemma, on the one hand he supports the democratic ideal of one man one vote, on the other hand, and realistically, he know that there are millions of Thais who lack the education/information to use this vote.
A major problem here is not the lack of intelligence of these millions, it is the lack of information. No political party, before or after an election, publishes manifestos, it is a culture of personalities rather than ideologies. In such a situation the rural masses will simply vote for the local person that they know.
The media should be pressing parties and politicians for clear policies, then explain them in simple terms to the people.
comment 46
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

But for sure, I am against politics as we know it. I never trust most of the players because I know their motivations. We have reporters talking to all the players in the Thai conflict at the moment. We share information, so we understand what is going on. If you want me to write an article to condemn the PAD, that's easy. You can read it everywhere.

How we can improve the political system is a subject of another article.
comment 45
budm date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.19

So what are you saying with this statement of geralization ''It is a joke to believe that the rural voters love or have better understanding of democracy than the Bangkok middle class'
comment 44
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Wait a minute I am not a PAD supporter. I never visit the Government House nor do I agree with their method. I only point out the positions of each sectors of Thai society about the Thai problems.
comment 43
budm date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.09

Thanong, that is the problem with generalization, I am sure there many educated Bangkok people that do not agree with PADs and they are being ignored by the media such as The Nation. Which group of people has elected the PADs represent the Bangkok people? It seems to me that one that oppose the PADs are called thugs, the PADs is always reported as peaceful people. If you read your own writing you will know that generalization is not a good because it will lead you to believe that one group of people from one place is superior than other group of people, which is not true. May be you should change the way your way of thinking.
comment 42
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

And if you were to equate economics with politics, you'll understand that Hank Paulson is now launching a financial coup d'etat against the financial system.
comment 41
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 12.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Another note for BUDM:
I am sorry that I have written more than 4,000 words of a thorough piece of analysis but I have failed to give you a broad understanding of the Thai situation. In the end, you just conveniently brand me as a PAD supporter. This is sad.
comment 40
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 11.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Dear BUDM,
I am not insulting anybody. I just have to generalise, putting the polarisation into categories. Bangkok is no home to middle-class by the way. Labour mobility from the provinces has changed the demographic landscape of Bangkok. Upcountry people now outnumber Bangkok middle class.
comment 39
Ian date : 11/10/2008 time : 11.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, I meet very few HiSo people in Thailand, most of those I meet are poor, and lacking in social skills and education. I am talking about Bangkok, not the rural provinces. This Bangkokian middle class that everyone keeps talking about is actually a minority group even in Bangkok. Whilst you are right in saying that many rural people do not understand democracy, I will equally maintain that neither do the majority of Bangkokians.
It is this ignorance that allows them to be so easily controlled by any charismatic demagogue who comes along.
It is this ignorance which has to be dispelled before any advance can be made in Thai politics.
How this can be achieved on an accelerated time scale I do not know, it is not my country. The school education is the best solution but this takes a generation, can Thailand wait that long? There is only one group which has daily contact with the people, this is the media, the press and the TV. It is your responsibility to educate the masses.
Fail in your job and you fail your country.
comment 38
budm date : 11/10/2008 time : 10.31

1) The Nation: 'In the political history of Thailand, the Bangkok middle-class -- not the rural poor -- have always played the prominent role in fighting against the military regimes and the bad politicians for the advancement of the democratic process.
Without the Bangkok middle-class, Thai democracy would not have come this far.'
From Pad (the so called middle classes Bangkok group that the Nation claims to understand Democracy than the rural people) '"How can he say that coup is not good? How can he put up with people being killed by police. Of course, the coup is not good if the military just does it for the sake of someone else's benefits," said Sondhi.

2) PADs/the Nation want 30% elected and 70% selected. Are you telling me that this will not create corruptions/favors? Remember onen thing, absolute power corrupt.

3) PADs never paid money/give favor for votes in Bangkok? Give me break!!

4) It did nto take the court very long to kick out Samak, did it?

5) How about the Muslim in the south that want to declare independent from Thailand? What would you do if the Muslims take over the Govermnet house. Will the Nation support them?

6) The Nation 'It is a joke to believe that the rural voters love or have better understanding of democracy than the Bangkok middle class.' My family came from the north and we have good education, the Nation comment is any insult to the non-Bangkok that the Nation just paints a broad brush insult for non-SO CALLED EDUCATED BANGKOK PEOPLE that look down on the poor and rural people, I am not saying that all Bangkok people have no respect for rural people but from what I see how a lot of them treating the poor on the street of Bangkok is just sad.
comment 37
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 09.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

All the groups love democracy -- like the concepts of love and marriage that I have described below --but if we do not agree with their versions of democracy, they call us undemocratic like what you are not certain about The Nation's stand on democracy. You have to spell out your stand. I have already undertaken to paint the broad picture.
comment 36
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 09.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

And also as I have explained in my article, Bangkok middle class understand Democracy as check and balance, governance and an absence of corruption. Rural people understand Democracy as a time when the politicians knock at their doors to offer Bt500 or Bt1,000 a head to vote for them, when they can have parties organised by the politicians and when they can go for beach that they have never seen in their life. Foreign media and foreign government look at Democracy as "any result that come out of the election booths".
comment 35
Thanong date : 11/10/2008 time : 09.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Khun FOS:
As I have said, people understand "democracy" differently according to their vested interest or background or personal inclination. Democracy is an abstract word like love or marriage.

Some people get married because of money, but they say that is love. Some people get married because of status, but they say that is love. Some people get married just because of getting married, but they say that is love. Some people get married because they get carried away, and they say they are not sure whether it is love or not.
Some people get married even though they are not quite ready, but they believe blindly that they can make it. Some people get married because they happen to get pregnant, so they have to go with it.

I can give you hundreds of example about love and marriage, whose concepts are even less complex than Democracy, but they are so different. We can give even thousands of example on Democracy and at the end, we are not sure whether they are democracy or not.
comment 34
FOS date : 10/10/2008 time : 17.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

PoNg,

"Are you sure the Nation support Free speech and democracy?"

No comment......

I agree with #C28 Plaadip. Yoon's Blog I go in and have fun. K. Thanong Blog, I go in to learn, well not all but most....
comment 33
Ian date : 10/10/2008 time : 17.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

PoNg, it usually means the poor old Nation server is overloaded, I get similar messages at times "cannot write file" is an autogenerated message which means "I'm too busy", you might sometime get a squil message that says, "too many connections".
Just wait a few minutes?hours and try again.
comment 32
Thanong date : 10/10/2008 time : 15.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

I shall have the web master take a look at your problem.
comment 31
PoNg date : 10/10/2008 time : 15.09

Qute From Kun Thanong
"We at the Nation have been in the forefront of democracy for more than three decades."

Kun Thanong kub, Do you know why My account has been busted? I cannot seem to post any more blogs after my first blog that pointe out the Nation mislead people by sayin "Samak Vowing to form street gangs. "

When I try to access my account it says "
Warning: fopen(/content/blognation/gen_text/text_user_blog/71/1071.detail): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /content/blognation/include/function_firstpage.php on line 371
cannot write file"

I have written to Admin but no replies. I hve e-mail your support staff, also no replies....Are you sure the Nation support Free speech and democracy?
comment 30
Ian date : 10/10/2008 time : 09.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

plaadip is correct, I have noticed that the BBC invariably quotes the "Nation" and sometimes the "Bangkok Post". Thus these papers to the English speaking world are truly " the voice of Thailand".
I cannot speak for other English speaking nations but the British are familiar with two categories of press media. The tabloid press, with its hype, exaggeration and tittilation; and the serious media that concentrates on news with in depth articles.
To the British reader the Nation reads like a tabloid.
Labels such as "Flash", "urgent" , "Must read", simply amplify this fact.

Thanong, the Thai people have been taught so much false history that any further distortions are not really important. When a Thai looks into a mirror he sees a member of a country of handsome, smiling heroes. History tell him this and history cannot lie, or can it?
comment 29
Thanong date : 10/10/2008 time : 08.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

The PAD has lost its popular appeal after it has taken over the Government House. Most people are disturbed by its violation of the law.

Let's take a look at the American Revolution. This is from Wikipedia:
"The Boston Tea Party was an act of direct action protest by the American colonists against the British Government in which they destroyed many crates of tea belonging to the British East India Company on ships in Boston Harbor. The incident, which took place on Thursday, December 16, 1773, has been seen as helping to spark the American Revolution and remains to this day one of the most iconic events in American history."

Immigrants supporting the British Crown looked upon the Boston Tea Party as an act of treason or a violation of the rule of law, whereas those who supported independence cherished it as a heroic act. If George Washington had lost the war, he would have been executed on treason. Since he won the war against the British Crown, he was hero.

History is judged by the winner who writes history. If the PAD is quashed, history will look upon the PAD as ugly violators of the law or fake democratic fighters. But if the PAD prevails over the politics as we know it, the takeover of the Government House will be looked upon as one of the "iconic events in Thai history."
comment 28
Plaadip date : 10/10/2008 time : 00.38

Foreign media not intentionally distort Thai politics. They just don't know or do not bother to know it. Their major sources of information about Thai politicis are Bangkok post and the Nation. So I think your role is very important.
comment 27
Ian date : 09/10/2008 time : 13.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

As usual this blog is starting to fall apart, a pity.
The idea of a regional government has been voiced many times by many people, I remember suggesting it last year. It does seem the only sensible solution but it will not happen simply because the boys at the top don't want to see their cake get smaller.
Thailand more than any other country I have lived in is driven by a culture of greed. As farangs we are particularly aware of this as we are often the target of this greed.
comment 26
wch date : 09/10/2008 time : 11.52

Thailand needs a new political value in order to reorganize the provincial division, the hard shell of local political patronage system.

The proposal of 6 regional premier DIRECT ELECTION and its council's top power, is the transcient system to call the people to unite into broader regionalism and induce political centrism to the whole nation.
Thailand is composed of various ethnocentrisms and that must be federated into centrism.

Monarchism is weak to unite this multicultured Thailand.
comment 25
wch date : 09/10/2008 time : 11.41

"People's Power in the rural does not exist."

I said this.
This is a difficult for Bangkok born people to understand and intermix the rural people of the north because Bangkok people travel rarely there.
What Bangkok know about Isan people is through Isan maid, workers who come to work in Bangkok.

Isan people still live in their own Kingdoms.
New leader come and go, the Jao Muang in the past, MP in the present time.
They never tried to learn the principle of democracy, they never fought for it.
If alien PAD invade into their province, they are enemy, the enemy to be destroyed (Udon case).
Police is same, Local gang is same, MP is same.
All rescending central budget, once arrived into their bank account, are of their money and they believe how spend it, is of total discretion of theirs.
If central auditing agents go down and investigate in books, they will be harassed or even homicidal.

Then, What is the power of the locality ?.
People say the number of votes and the number is trusted as the symbol of DEMOCRACY.

Let me bring up a 'democratic ballot system ' of PRC.
A province populace turns up 100 % and cast Yes vote of 100% to their local communist cadre for new chief position of their province.
The communists never threat people with gun.

Is this democratic ?
Isan election is not different.

I spent sometime in various countries of the south america. Thai people likes to compare in-between with them.
The difference is, the rural poor of indians and mestizo sell rarely their votes but follow local priests or Phuyai Baan.(village headman).

Thai rural is both, following the established provincial power of PPP MP and selling votes.
They think the money is Tamboon (charity) that is given always by the rich, the powerful, down toward the poor, and the commoners.

They think,
" THEY ARE RULERS, WE ARE THE RULED. So they think they are deserved to be TO-BE-GIVEN."

By this much, selling vote is not guilty.

( I met an old retired Bangkok professor in Isan and he said "This is the first time of my life to travel here, I have been yearning so long for this,,,)
comment 24
Thann26 date : 09/10/2008 time : 10.44

Does or Doesn't ?

Great article by the way.

"The magazine does know the difference between the assets of the Crown Property Bureau and the assets of His Majesty the King."
comment 23
wch date : 09/10/2008 time : 09.18

Also the last election turn-out was,
Democrat 12.3 million
PPP 12.5 million
as the MP numbers of proportional party list are
35 vs 34.

The 2550 constitution was
14 million yes votes against 12million no votes.
The ballot was as much clean as this Bangkok governor election.
comment 22
wch date : 09/10/2008 time : 08.42

People's Power in the rural does not exist.
comment 21
massein date : 08/10/2008 time : 22.45

Didn't mean to post this picture here sorry
comment 20
massein date : 08/10/2008 time : 22.06


m61 ia right color but has a flat bottom
comment 19
massein date : 08/10/2008 time : 21.39

This was a great blog one of the best that has every cover this situation. Sometime i wonder how 2 ppl with eyes to see and ears to hear can stand in the same spot and come to such different conclusions.
comment 18
Thanong date : 08/10/2008 time : 20.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Hello Khun Korbsak: I wish you all the best.
comment 17
Thanong date : 08/10/2008 time : 20.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian, I know you are a good man, although you sometimes like to give me some hard times.
comment 16
Ian date : 08/10/2008 time : 19.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong, comment 7, I think you are too modest, I respect your articles even when not always agreeing with them. I would never claim to understand Thais better than you, but I do have some advantages when it comes to commenting:-)
Firstly as a retired person I have lots of time to dig out information, often from unusual sources. Again I also have no political or job restraints, my job is not at risk neither is my reputation. There are certain unique laws in this country that no Thai is even prepared to discuss let alone venture into, whilst these laws also apply to me, I do not have the inbred dread that a Thai has, so at times I will gently flirt with them.
In summary you do a good job and I hope your bosses at the Nation realise this.
comment 15
Hermano_Lobo date : 08/10/2008 time : 19.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

Independent media?

What Independent media ?
comment 14
korbsak date : 08/10/2008 time : 19.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/korbsak

vote buying comes in different form. Thaksin is a cheap skate, hardly use his own money for vote buying. He was a guru at using tax monies to buy votes.
I have been there for the past 20 some years and have to say that you are right on the dot krab.
comment 13
rad date : 08/10/2008 time : 19.10

Thanong,
90% of what you write is preaching to the choir so to speak. Many here already understand the thrust of your excellent piece.

That two factions are fighting for control of US100 billion plus is understandable, but either of them giving up a shot at that golden goose in the forseeable future is not, not much motivation is there.

The judicial system isn't slow because of the rule of law it is slow because of the law, the law can be changed, while the rule of law remains. But, no one is interested in changing the law, just the constitution, strange right?

The US financial black hole is slightly different, I think, much of that problem right now is perception, Thailand has real, physically observable problems, Thais killing Thais. Democracy doesn't even appear to be on the table at this point. Stopping the violence would seem to be the primary goal.
comment 12
Thanong date : 08/10/2008 time : 19.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

FOS, you are so sweet!
comment 11
FOS date : 08/10/2008 time : 19.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

Thanks for your reply and I do felt honour. I love reading post when they are fair and neutral and that's how I want to learn.....from the educated.

Thanks again.
comment 10
Thanong date : 08/10/2008 time : 18.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

By the way, this article is an improved version of my speech delivered at the HK-Thailand Business Council recently in Hong Kong.
comment 9
Thanong date : 08/10/2008 time : 18.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Not at all Khun FOS.
We always welcome criticism. Not all of us are perfect. We all have deficiencies. We are caught up in the daily routines. We are blinded by the events of the day. But overall, we must try to be clear-headed. I only present my side of the story. I can't answer for others.
comment 8
FOS date : 08/10/2008 time : 18.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

I'm just a ordinary person that comes into this modern society from the Northeast and not much of a educational background. I absorb my own knowledge through life from what I hear, read and see.

I'm not branding your post as anything but do you not see some of the members of your post are siding?

For instance, I've watched video today in your news page with a Heading " Policemen seen firing at the Protester" and when I watch the video, it's nothing but firing Tear Gas. Now with the educational back ground being a journalist, is it appropriate to use such headings?

With all the Blog that K. Yoon put up, can you give me your views on them? Honestly, it is not us branding you people as what you've said, it is how you people behave that makes us feel such a way.

I apologize if I have offended you but that's how I felt.
comment 7
Thanong date : 08/10/2008 time : 18.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Ian,
I have made my argument in a systematic way. It has to cover some generalisations -- anti-government supporters vs pro-government supporters or the like. Foreigners also do have better understanding of Thai situation better than me, including you who have better understanding of Thailand than me. I am saying is that the majority of them don't have a clue of what is going on.
comment 6
Ian date : 08/10/2008 time : 18.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Thanong I agree with most of what you write, but not the section headed the Politics of Distortion. Naturally you can respond that as a Farang I am no better than any other foreigner at understanding Thai politics. Thus my opinion can be dismissed.
If this is how you think then I am saddened by your insularity, you are happy for Thailand to stay isolated and misunderstood by the world.
I will leave you with this thought, sometimes an outsider can see things more clearly than those directly involved.
comment 5
Thanong date : 08/10/2008 time : 17.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

We at the Nation have been in the forefront of democracy for more than three decades. Now we are being branded as pro-coup and anti-democratic. The politics of distortion is so powerful.
comment 4
FOS date : 08/10/2008 time : 17.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

I'm still reading....
comment 3
littlefish date : 08/10/2008 time : 17.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Breakthrough

Great blog Khun Thanong,

You are absolutely right. Finally, we have somone actually knows exactly the factual scheme of the Thai political system. I have been reading the bloggers taking sides, consoling one side over the other at this critical time. I wonder if those were based on reasonable facts or just feelings.

Not until majority of the rural people are well educated, the real democracy will work. And Thailand will be in the same situation as it has been from one Thaksin like regime to another. The western democracy will not work for Thailand. With different culture and mindset, we will need an adapting democracy system, similar to what you referred to, like Singapore and Hongkong. The system have to be contrived to fit the Thai attitude and life style.

Being in democracy system, people will need discipline and sincerity to contribute into the system, especially, the governing body. The government has to take full responsibily of their actions. That will never happen as long as politicians are still taking that getting elected is an investment.
comment 2
Thanong date : 08/10/2008 time : 17.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong

Still updating!!!
comment 1
FOS date : 08/10/2008 time : 14.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Dom

K. Thanong,

Very interesting Blog indeed and I really love to hear your own views base on my Blog of right and wrong (let's analyst with our minds open). Please, some knowledge I seek since there's no way I can get it out from Yoon.
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