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Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad
Monday , November 9 , 2009
Kampuchean strategy and calculations
Posted by stalingrad , Reader : 1433 , 08:53:48  
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The Cambodian strategy is to derail Thai economic recovery. Why? to lessen the power of Thailand, to keep it weak, and to undermine the legitimacy of the Apisit government which hinges on economic performance and recovery. The second aim suits Thaksin fine, so he is cooperating to force this difficult matter of extradition in Apisit's hands, calculating that Apisit will lose stature once the government cannot do anything about his extradition except grit its teeth. Apisit will then be portrayed as an ineffective leader, with a lot of hot air. If he makes some mistakes, it will be used as political capital by Thaksin and the Pua Thai who can claim that Apisit is not to fit to rule, that he’s immature, got to have elections to determine whether the people really support Apisit on Cambodian policy etc. etc.

 

The derailment if it happens will undermine the popularity of Apisit as well as put uncertainty in the minds of foreign businessmen and investors in Thai economic prospects. But I don’t buy the idea that foreign businesses will shift to Kampuchea instead. No one in his right mind would put big money into such an unstable political environment and bet on such an unreliable leader, who’s been in power for over 20 years and is angling for a new story to perpetuate his rule or that of his relatives. Also, derailment is not going to be allowed to happen as recovery is so crucial and the momentum is so strong.

 

So it all depends on how Apisit will retaliate once Thaksin is in Cambodia (if he really comes, which I think he will). If the retaliation is crafted in a way that wins the hearts and minds of the people, then Thaksin will have lost in this game. The response has got to have real teeth but not appear threatening to the Cambodians as a whole, as it might then result in a nationalist backlash which would playing right into Hun Sen's trap.

 

Economic measures are the best form of demonstration and leverage. One might also take some measures concerning the huge number of Cambodian migrant workers here. If relations truly deteriorate tighter, control of them or even mass expulsions might happen, not as a policy choice but as a security imperative, as other nations have done in crisis situations. The argument being since Hun Sen started this, let him take care of the returnees, and stew in his own juice.

 

A strong Thai military retaliation is not productive at all, but the Cambodians could engineer a provocation at the border to bring about this, as such retaliation is the goal of this exercise. Shelling, firefights do have an impact on perception of economics.  Apisit is facing a difficult choice and must thread carefully. So far most Thais are backing him but such support could evaporate if he makes a mistake. This is what Thaksin is hoping for. To respond tough is the right move psychologically but not to extremes.  A military conflagration will attract third parties with their own agenda, and that is not good.


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comment 143
notdisappointed date : 23/11/2009 time : 22.00


Ian c142, What's there to say? I always said that is just negotiations that we can always stop.

What kasit chose to do was not discussed with me before hand so he has to take the heat for it himself.

But you know what? Pridiyathorn forgot to mention in is commentary that thaksin has a 99 year development agreement with the khmer goverenment to develop the province of koh kong tat is directly facing the disputed area and is most likely to gain in any settlement of negotiations!
comment 142
Ian date : 23/11/2009 time : 08.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

It is nice to see that commonsense is surfacing, even the Nation can see that Kasit has lied and bamboozled the people of Thailand.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/11/23/opinion/opinion_30117101.php

How will ND and friends put their spin on this one?
comment 141
Ian date : 22/11/2009 time : 22.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, This is obviously not the York Uni physiologist so must be the Australian political analyst. So I'll conceed an 80% win to you on this one.
comment 140
notdisappointed date : 22/11/2009 time : 20.21


I think that Michael K. Connors is an English speaker born and raised who coined this word for my our enjoyment and usage.

“Democrasubjection”, Connors, Michael Kelly. 2003. Democracy and National Identity in Thailand.


comment 139
Ian date : 22/11/2009 time : 18.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, 138. I'm sorry, but as a non native speaker of English you simply are not permitted to invent new words
comment 138
notdisappointed date : 22/11/2009 time : 18.03

Ian c137; we all recognize your valuable contributions to champion the rights of thaksin to return and continue his goal of democratic autocracy through "democrasubjection" of the rural populace as a means to overcome the idealism and civil society of true democacy.
comment 137
Ian date : 20/11/2009 time : 12.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Ah recognition at last, I have been sworn at by peacefulness, I was starting to get worried.
Now if I can make him continue pucking he just might die of dehydration, what a charmingly beautiful thought
comment 136
peacefulness date : 20/11/2009 time : 09.23
NATIONMULTIMEDIA.COM

IAN IAN IAN IAN IAN----- PLS DO NOT BULLSHIT YOUR FUCKING PLONKER IDEAS IN THE BLOG SITE, I AM PUKING PUKING PUKING ENDLESSLY.........
comment 135
peacefulness date : 20/11/2009 time : 09.20
nationmultimedia.com

IAN IAN IAN IAN-------

YOU ARE THE MOST FUCKING IDIOT IN THE NATION BLOG SITE. GO TO HELL , AI KWAI(BUFFALO).........................
comment 134
Ian date : 20/11/2009 time : 09.07
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, being childish is preferable to being stupid
A child can mature, stupid people cannot become intelligent.
comment 133
notdisappointed date : 19/11/2009 time : 23.33


Above is the recent 'candid' file photo of thaksin and hun sen just release by the khmer ministry of culture and propaganda.

sorry Ian I couldn't resist.
comment 132
Ian date : 18/11/2009 time : 09.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I remember some time back many of the Thaksin haters here were complaining about some bloggers using the alternative spelling Taksin.
It seems that Peacefulness and ND are now happy for this spelling of Taksin to be used in order to send people to the wrong twitter.

We see clearly why peacefulness should be banned for constantly posting comments in Thai. He used my ignorance of both Thai and Twitter to send me to the wrong place, The false mock Twitter Taksinlive, rather than the true site Thaksinlive. Again I have to thank the Nation Paper for explaining this to me.

"However, things in the micro-blogging world seem to have become a bit confusing recently. There's now a copycat account called "taksinlive" with the ex-premier's photo probably set up to confuse the red-shirted tweeters.

Even though taksinlive looks very similar to Thaksin's account, the owner appears to intensely dislike the former PM. The taksinlive account, which was set up in late September and had 646 followers as of press time, carries nasty messages about Thaksin, especially in terms of his latest moves in Cambodia."

646

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/11/18/politics/politics_30116850.php

Note also they called Thaksin the "Former" PM. Not fugitive, not criminal, not convict. Could the Nation be becoming less enthusiastic about the current administration?
comment 131
Ian date : 17/11/2009 time : 21.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, 130, it is similar to the gang that I am supposed to belong to
I went and looked at that link, first time I've ever looked at twitter
I would like to pose some questions to you, I wonder if you can give some straight honest answers.
Most Thaksin supporters are poor and poorly educated countryfolk, most anti Thaksin people are better educated and better off financially.

now in my village i am the only one with internet access, so can these vilagers have a comment in twitter or anywhere else on the Internet.

Would it not be a fair comment that there must be more Yellows on the Internet than Reds?
Even if people use Internet cafes there is one in nearly every street in Bangkok, outside Bangkok they are few and far between.
comment 130
notdisappointed date : 17/11/2009 time : 18.20

Ian, I didn't know that I had any so-called 'support group' that I know of. Is that something like a 'fan club'? Gee - does that mean I'm famous?? Or that some people can elate to my opinions??
How extraordinary and humbling.

In any case go to the link and forget the Thai.
comment 129
Ian date : 17/11/2009 time : 16.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND 128, Indeed so, perhaps you might also care to point out to your support group, is that one of the Nation rules (for what little that is worth ) is that comments should be in English. apart from anything else it simply means he is not getting his message across (assuming that he even has a message )
On the other hand if his message is as repetitive as your, "It's all Thaksin's fault", perhaps it is better that he sticks to Thai.
comment 128
notdisappointed date : 17/11/2009 time : 13.16

Great link Px; shows that not all people who follow him on twitter are fooled by his act. And that his supposed followers cannot access twitter. This just makes it more personal for him when he can read on a daily basis the 'love' that many Thais have for him. He must be so proud. I hope he's happy.

Ian, does it matter who pulled the trigger? At the end of the day, it should never have ever happened in the first place.

A heinous and disgusting act performed and ordered by animals.
comment 127
peacefulness date : 17/11/2009 time : 11.19
nationmultimedia.com

http://twitter.com/Taksinlive


"·Ñé§¹Õé¼ÙéÊ×èÍ¢èÒÇÃÒ§ҹ ÁÕ¼ÙéÊÃéÒ§·ÇÔµàµÍÃìàÅÕ¹Ẻ "Thaksinlive" ¢Í§¾.µ.·.·Ñ¡ÉÔ³ ªÔ¹Çѵà ʹյ¹Ò¡ÃѰÁ¹µÃÕ â´Âãªéª×èÍÇèÒ "Taksinlive" ËÃ×Í http://twitter.com/Taksinlive à»Ô´ãËéÊÁÒªÔ¡¢Í§àÇçºä«µì´Ñ§¡ÅèÒÇ à¢éÒÁÒÇÔ¾Ò¡ÉìÇÔ¨Òóì áÅеͺâµé ¡Ã³Õ¡ÒÃà¤Å×è͹äËǢͧ¾.µ.·.·Ñ¡ÉÔ³ ËÅѧà´Ô¹·Ò§¨Ò¡»ÃÐà·È¡ÑÁ¾ÙªÒ "




pls enjoy reading.........
comment 126
Ian date : 16/11/2009 time : 19.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Ah, but who pulled the trigger on the RPG gun? Was it a Red, a Yellow or a blue, or perhaps some more military enemies of Sondhi?
comment 125
notdisappointed date : 16/11/2009 time : 00.17


And it has begun.

The bombing of the PAD rally. It is the continuing steps of the pogrom undertaken months ago to put thaksin back in power based on the 'hun sen model'
comment 124
peacefulness date : 15/11/2009 time : 23.16
nationmultimedia.com

just fyi......... "The Thai People’s Declaration to the World "

â´Â ASTV¼Ùé¨Ñ´¡ÒÃÍ͹äŹì 15 ¾ÄȨԡÒ¹ 2552 21:46 ¹.

"We are the people of the Kingdom of Thailand and are citizens who are loyal to our nation, our religion, and our monarchy. We gather here today at Sanam Luang in the capital city of Bangkok and are joined in spirit and in faith by Thai citizens from across the Kingdom.

We come today to declare our purpose to everyone around the world, the following:

1. The Kingdom of Thailand is one kingdom that cannot and will not be divided. The people of Thailand have always been and continue to be loyal to our nation, our religion, and our monarchy. The Kingdom of Thailand is governed under a constitutional monarchy and will never be ruled by any other system because we, the people of Thailand, are prepared to protect our nation, our religion, our King, our independence, our sovereignty, and our national interests…we protect these institutions with our lives.

2. Fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra has been found guilty by the Supreme Court of Thailand for abuse of power and continues to flee and remain on the run. While he is hiding from the law, he is still wanted in many other corruption cases, but continues to create trouble and harm Thailand and its people, increasingly so that he has become the most wanted fugitive in the Kingdom’s recent history. Fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra will repay and return all assets that he has acquired through unjust means.

We, the people of Thailand, will continue to monitor and demand those assets until they are rightfully returned to Thailand.

3. We declare that Fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra has now become an enemy to the Kingdom of Thailand. He has become a traitor to his motherland by threatening Thailand’s national security and becoming an antagonist to Thailand’s constitutional monarchy. He has conspired with the enemy in undermining Thailand’s dignity.

It has been apparent throughout his years as a fugitive that Thaksin Shinawatra has tried his best to incite political and ideological separation among Thais nationwide and also between the Kingdom of Thailand and its neighbor, Cambodia…a conflict that will not only affect Thai citizens, but also holds repercussions for the people of Cambodia and the citizens of Southeast Asia as a whole.

4. We declare that the Kingdom of Thailand’s justice system is fair and just….a system that utilizes judicial, humanitarian, and compassionate philosophies in deliberating cases. While trying to disgrace and discredit Thailand’s judicial system around the world, Fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra uses that same judicial system to file lawsuits against others as well. He has now become the Kingdom’s most frequent plaintiff.

We condemn Fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra and Mr. Hun Sen for dishonoring the Kingdom of Thailand’s judicial system. In doing so, both have also insulted the people of Thailand in the most shameful way and, for this, should never be forgiven.

5. We declare that the Kingdom of Thailand and the Kingdom of Cambodia and its peoples remain friendly neighbors. We, therefore, call upon Mr. Hun Sen to cease his activities in conspiring with Fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra in turning Thailand into an enemy of Cambodia. Mr. Hun Sen should also immediately strengthen ties with Thailand and urgently act upon what is called for in Former King His Majesty Norodom Sihanu’s royal missive.

6. Following in our ancestors footsteps, we, the people of Thailand, continue to be at peace with our neighbors and the world. We are dedicated to cooperating with the peoples and governments of nations around the world in protecting world peace, human rights, and the wellbeing of mankind.

Our gathering today reflects a great deal about the current state of the Kingdom of Thailand. Our presence represents Thai citizens who remain devoted to protecting the honor and dignity of our nation, our King, and our constitutional monarchy as stipulated in the Kingdom of Thailand’s constitution.

Declared to those present here and around the world…November 15, 2009 at Sanam Luang, Bangkok, Kingdom of Thailand

With Heartfelt Respect and Peace

The People of Thailand
Who remain loyal to our nation, our religion, and our monarchy"


¤Ó»ÃСÒȢͧ»Ç§ª¹ªÒÇä·ÂµèÍ»ÃЪҪҵԷÑèÇâÅ¡

â´Â ASTV¼Ùé¨Ñ´¡ÒÃÍ͹äŹì 15 ¾ÄȨԡÒ¹ 2552 21:31 ¹.



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comment 123
peacefulness date : 15/11/2009 time : 11.27


pics, one and the only one who destroys thailand in

All Aspects "the square face".

the root of all evil........
comment 122
stalingrad date : 15/11/2009 time : 08.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

This is my posting in Veen’s. Thought you might enjoy. No offense should be taken. Don't be too serious, as 55 says.

Veen: Brilliant. More. Some cartoons on the gems of wisdom talk on economics given in Phanom Penh would be good. Here incidentally was outline of talk, smuggled out by a Cambodian traitor, who subsequently was arrested and lashed 3 times.

9 am: Introduction, guest speaker hands out 100$ to each participant.

930-1030: Basics on how to do policy corruption and get away with it

1030-1130: How to throw scraps at the people and make them forever lastingly grateful

1130-1140: coffee break. Guest hands out $100 to each participant

1140-1240: Bribing the justice system as part of economic development: case study of a failed attempt of 2 million Baht sweets bag; Q+A on
how to improve on it.

1240-1340: Lunch: guest hands out 50$ and manual "How to cheat, bribe the key state institutions and fool the masses into believing it's a great moral idea" (1st 50 copies autographed--with 50$ bookmark)

1345-1415: (after lunch wake up period)The international front: How to recruit bloggers to do one's bidding: case study of Nationmultimedia blog: an invited foreign blogger from the West gives his/her experience ( 100$ again handed out to all)

etc. etc.
comment 121
notdisappointed date : 14/11/2009 time : 23.49


Ian , see my commnet to you on Al's latest.

You don't get me do you?

Ask Erik, he gets me.

This is a joke. Just fun and laughs.

That's why I enjoy orange; speaking fo which, I need to vist sometime. But been kinda busy lately only tonite have I had the time to 'go crazy'
comment 120
Ian date : 14/11/2009 time : 22.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, yes I know Shawn Crispin
You are really starting to dissappoint me, I can understand you attacking Thaksin, what I cannot understand is how you can so blindly support Abhisit. Even his own supporters are turning away from him.
These are ceasing to be sensible blogs, you know why, because people like you attack the Reds and then other people attack you for attacking the reds.
So it goes on the same old monotonous circle, no one is prepared to discuss the other's viewpoint it is just countered with sarcasm, cynicism or vulgarity.
Orange must have been a shock to you, no one called you names and your comments were met with reasoned debate, some even agreed with you in part.
The Nation used to be like that once, now it's mostly a bar room brawl.
Why do you and so many of your fellow traveller feel the need to indulge in such a string of adjectives, " world-sized ego, immorality, unethical practices, dishonesty, untrustworthiness, unprincipled and being without integrity."?
Apart from world-sized ego and immorality which I doubt, all the rest simply boil down to dishonesty. I guess you think it good to copy the Thai media style.
Well we Brits have a term for it, it is OTT, you simply lay it on too thick for me.
comment 119
notdisappointed date : 14/11/2009 time : 22.20

55 trying to be nice and cute to distract people from your childishness and words pranks?


Here's the link to Asiatimes.

I didn't recommend 55 to read it as she would only miscomprehend its meaning and interpret it in some of her childish fantasizing.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/KK12Ae01.html
comment 118
HA_HA date : 14/11/2009 time : 21.54

k stal..
sorry, i didn't mean in a bad way. i mean you're trying to keep your 'cool' ..jai yen.

and my impression may be because the passport photo which always make people look stern. but you look great.


comment 117
notdisappointed date : 14/11/2009 time : 21.50


Pat, Stal, Ian, noonin, Dal, plaadip, ds, yabua, wch, lonewolf, Px, massein, Exp, Hap.

Check out the following link:

www.atimes.com

"ASIA HAND
Plots seen in Thaksin's Cambodia gambit
By Shawn W Crispin"

Then tell me that I'm fantasizing.
comment 116
stalingrad date : 14/11/2009 time : 21.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Hah Hah. Me trying to be cool? At my age? Ridiculous.

Serious and tense? My friends would disagree as when there’s a fun party with substance, I’m always invited. Because I’m not pig headed, narrow minded, dogmatic, and prone to starry-eyed worship of someone ignoring tons of evidence to the contrary. Suggest you take a course on how to judge character.

Of course none of my business, but I also suggest you go to the demo tomorrow at Sanam Luang. Might broaden your outlook a bit. I’ve been to red shirt rallies a few times, and learned a lot.

But in fact I’m getting sick of this infantile yellow and red shirt distinction. I insist on wearing yellow though, as it’s my favourite colour before all this. In fact I might wear red tomorrow, my second favourite colour.

Ú
comment 115
notdisappointed date : 14/11/2009 time : 21.01


55 and Ian c111/112 - You're both wrong. It's not the old elites who oppose thaksin.

It's all those people who cannot and will not accept thaksin's world-sized ego, immorality, unethical practices, dishonesty, untrustworthiness, unprincipled and being without integrity.

No matter what crumbs he gave to the disaffected to buy their support.
comment 114
notdisappointed date : 14/11/2009 time : 20.56


Pat c101, now that's the Pat we've come to know and respect. Pat, at least you didn't say I was polishing my rocket!!

See Ian? When asked to edify his comments Pat does so in a way that reflects the self-serving deviousness and mischievousness that thaksin will rely on to create divisiveness and pit Thais against Thais for his own purposes.

And you continue to say that thaksin hasn't the ability being in exile to cause trouble. Better have that ice cream with 55 you both are in your own world of denial.
comment 113
Plaadip date : 14/11/2009 time : 13.58

C113, it took place at front lines between KR's and the government's soliders. They manage their "border" in that way, while fighting occasionally.
comment 112
Ian date : 14/11/2009 time : 13.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

HA_HA, 110. Yes you are correct I was being lazy in my terminology, it is the old conservative elite that control Bangkok and oppose Thaksin.
comment 111
HA_HA date : 14/11/2009 time : 11.19

c109 ..oh.. and that's just the comment from THE NATION?

are they trying to divide the already divided country further more?


comment 110
HA_HA date : 14/11/2009 time : 11.17

c109, uncle Ian

cannot be. i would be if i got AV. ..i want more ice cream..

btw, don't call bangkok elite. call them the old power. the conservative.


comment 109
Ian date : 14/11/2009 time : 10.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

There was a comment in Today's Nation editorial that may contain a clue.

"Thaksin may think he has nothing to lose, because Abhisit won't be able to penetrate the North and Northeast in the next elections any way. However, if this is the idea that is really driving Thaksin, then it will just confirm the criticism that has hounded him since he took power. It was said in those days that Thaksin did not really care for the "other half" of the country. Yet if it isn't that, then there is no other way to explain his actions at the moment."

Could it be that Thaksin accepts that The Elite of Bangkok hates him, as does the South. So the solution is partition. This has already been mooted many times in the last year, a north, central, southern divide. Three countries one King. Just like the UK. Scotland, Wales and England with one Queen.
comment 108
stalingrad date : 14/11/2009 time : 10.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Peacefulness: really? how do you mean?
comment 107
Ian date : 14/11/2009 time : 10.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Panya, 99. More quaint English, it's about time you went back for a month and brought your English up to speed I have a couple of spare rooms if you like.
I find ND's vehement opinions a useful barometer, I was simply asking what you derived from them.
comment 106
peacefulness date : 14/11/2009 time : 10.27
nationmultimedia.com

i suspect someone's "registration" is now being used by another user?????????????
comment 105
HA_HA date : 14/11/2009 time : 09.26

k. stal,

just my impression from your picture and your comment na.. you're knowledgeble and trying to be cool but you're so tense, so serious, so pessimistic.

i'd like you to read about Ronald Reagan. He was so funny and "light" despite the burden of being the President of the United State of America at that time. He joked through all and finally achieved more than any serious presidents.

Come on relax. has some ice cream and take a nap.


comment 104
HA_HA date : 14/11/2009 time : 09.12

ND, c83 ..and so are you. you just do for another side

The different of you do it to protect the benefits the position of your family and relatives. I do it on my own. I am a chao-baan.

ok, go have ice cream and take a nap.


comment 103
stalingrad date : 14/11/2009 time : 07.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Plaadip: playing football is for each side to win the war on the football field, and then report to their superiors for a reward [war bounty] or a spanking. It's good in that when the real things come, they won't do any shooting; footbal fans are a congenial lot.
comment 102
stalingrad date : 14/11/2009 time : 07.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

K. Patriot: If it is true that Thaksin doesn't have the public support required for a return to power, then all would be more relaxed. Many of my freinds also hold that assumption. But from where I sit, his plot in essence is to attempt a people's revolution, a going for broke situation, precisely to prove your contention. There are a lot of fanatical and stupid Thaksin supporters around (some might say even in these blogs :) ), who would attempt reckless things to support their god-like figure (judging from the faces of his female supporters at the Siam Rap party).

The issue of how much support Thaksin has is the deciding factor. The 64 million $ question. But it does seem as you say that he made a strategic mistake in allying with Hun Sen and challenging outright the much revered institutions. Most analysts also subscribe to this argument. Let it play, and we'll find out.
comment 101
Patriot date : 14/11/2009 time : 04.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Patriot

K. Not Disappointed: Why? Because desperate people do desperate things. I think we all have seen through past actions that there is no limit as to how dispensable people are or what methods are used to regain power. Even if it means to destroy ones own homeland for the sake of restoring ones own ego. If you tell me its about anything other than ego, I would have to disagree.

Why not? My opinion is that if the former Prime Minister does cross the border it still does not change the fact that he is a convicted fugitive and has to answer for his crimes.

The former Prime Ministers recent actions and behavior of inciting discourse between Thailand and Cambodia has created a irreversible image of disloyalty amongst Thai people, the international community and this includes his support base, so even if he does succeed in returning into Thailand the public support required to return to power will not be there. This also applies to the ministers that are visiting him now in Cambodia. In short, it would be a very short lived revival because the question then becomes an issue of loyalty between Thailand or Thaksin.

The delusion of regained status and power is a dream and he knows it. The former Prime Minister is not in a winning position or else he would not have to resort to treason. This is his all in poker play but I do not think he has the gumption to back it up.

I am still firm in the belief that we should seek a peaceful way to resolve this situation. I am also disappointed you did not like my rocket in the pocket comment. I'll try harder next time.
comment 100
Plaadip date : 14/11/2009 time : 02.30

What your guys are talking about when the soldiers of both country are playing football at the boarder?
comment 99
panya date : 13/11/2009 time : 23.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Ian

your C96 - "Panya, I actually think ND's opinion is very useful"

your C92 - "panya, ND's opinion, why do you ask"


Make up your mind, or are you simply blotto?


comment 98
stalingrad date : 13/11/2009 time : 22.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Forgot a key word. "To prepare for war is not to want it, NECESSARILY"
comment 97
stalingrad date : 13/11/2009 time : 22.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Ian and others: I’m not advocating war at all. Let me make my viewpoint clear, as I believe it is a reflection of a lot of people’s views.

To prepare for war is not to want it. It is to avoid it by warning credibly the other side of certain consequences if he should attack, either in a limited operation or a wider one. And if the attack occurs, we would have a fighting chance of winning some battles which could then be used as a bargaining chip or some other political leverage. A weak armed forces with 2 months supply of materiel would be the laughing stock of an opponent who can then run rings around us. Military preparations are especially prudent when we are faced with a formidable opponent like Hun Sen who has been reared in war, who knows how to use force judiciously to achieve his aims, and who revels in brinkmanship. In fact, some would argue he would understand only the language of force and credible threats, as he himself has used it and experienced it.

Preparations for defensive war are done by every nation, especially by a nation living in flat terrain suitable for mobile warfare in the East. And especially when faced with an unstable leader, who has unwittingly shown his hostility to Thailand, although he is masking it by saying the fight is between him and Apisit. But that’s just posturing. We all know, or should know, his real long term aims. And we needn’t worry about Thai defensive preparations suddenly turning to an offensive one. We haven’t got the money for an offensive policy. Besides, there are built-in political safeguards against that happening, at least in Thailand. But I don’t know about Cambodia which is essentially a dictatorship.

K. Patriot, I do understand your point and agree that as a regional leader, Thailand must be composed. It has been indeed so, to the admiration of many of its friends who know the score. But it also has to respond in certain ways as befits a sovereign country, especially if one has read the recent Hun Sen interviews. It can’t be non-responsive as that would send the wrong signals, to him, to the world, and to the domestic polity. Also, I wouldn’t worry about the hawks in the military; they are now quite professional, and some would say scared of fighting even, although I don’t subscribe to that kind of interpretation.

So I still insist Thais should make haste and make the appropriate military preparations, even design war bonds for issuance in an emergency situation. Petrol needs to be stockpiled etc.

On ND’s point about shooting down Thaksin’s plane as he crosses Thai air space, I myself wouldn’t go that far. But it’s certainly within the Thai air force’s prerogative to challenge the plane (any hostile plane, including a plane with someone hostile inside) and force it down by escorting it, even if it flew over international air space. Don’t forget that the Brits took the golden opportunity when Thaksin left the UK temporarily to cancel his visa. So why shouldn’t the Thai government use this opportunity? In fact, the recent arrest of the Thai flight controller in Panom Penh was I believe in part due to the fear that Thaksin’s flight plan might be compromised.

For the Zelaya solution, sure, possible. But probably won’t hide in the Cambodian Embassy, too risky. But a testing of the waters in a safe area on the border ? why not. Quick in, quick out. Forming a bridgehead. All been done before elsewhere, so can happen here. But still risky as then the theory of hot pursuit applies. On balance, not yet. Maybe later when conditions are riper. In fact, in his interview with Timesonline, he already alluded to this possibility.
comment 96
Ian date : 13/11/2009 time : 22.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Panya, I actually think ND's opinion is very useful it is an indication of how the Yellow hawks think.
Whether such thoughts are valid or feasable is another matter of course.
comment 95
lonewolf date : 13/11/2009 time : 21.53

If I were to evaluate the growing cross-border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia from a personal/selfish perspective I would certainly cheer on the Thai generals to initiate an aggressive action to capture Thaksin and bring him across the border. This would of course result in an armed confrontation that would ensure great loss of life and devastate the economies of both countries. Most citizens in Cambodia are already living at the poverty level so that would be nothing new for them. But in Thailand such a drop in the standard of living would indeed be quite a shock for the population. Yet for western tourists the consequences would likely result in an economic windfall. The Baht would certainly fall against all currencies to historic lows and those overvalued western condos across Bangkok would become very affordable. In addition those five star hotels across the country could be enjoyed at two star prices. War is never good for the economy …just look at the US dollar after the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. (War is of course good for the weapons manufacturers…the merchants of death.)

Speaking of the ‘merchant of death’, the Russian arms dealer currently in custody of the Thai police…The Thai government has REFUSED an extradition request to the US for this fugitive. This extraordinary refusal by the Thai government has greatly irritated the US State Department and the ATF (alcohol, tobacco and firearms agency). This will not soon be forgotten by the US government.

Why is it that there is a double standard for extradition requests by the Thai government?
comment 94
notdisappointed date : 13/11/2009 time : 20.53

K patriot; and why not? Why won't thaksin pull a Zelaya?

Why?

Guys I never spoke of war and who would win.
Or who would win.

I speak of the mischief that could occur were thaksin to pull a Zelaya with the backing of his reds, his nominees, his bureaucrats in his pocket, his police and military.

And I'm accused of being gung-ho. Oh please. K' patriot I expected so much more from you, but a 'put a rocket in my pocket'? Sir that's so lame. And does you no justice.

Why is the question.

Ian, let our Patriot answer; I'd like to receive the full benefit of is wisdom on the matter.
comment 93
panya date : 13/11/2009 time : 17.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Ian C92

I asked nd's opinion because I had just read what he called 'strategy' in C82 directly after reading the report about a Thai engineer being arrested and Abhisit going to Singapore, and I was curious if he thought the scene was set.

No mention was made of war being justified, and my final comment reflected the reason given for the engineer's arrest which related to nd's comment about why his plane was not forced down if it flew through Thai airspace, a valid enough thought. Civilian, legitimate?

Just because you don't like what nd writes is hardly a valid reason for me to desist from asking his opinion, if that's ok with you
.
comment 92
Ian date : 13/11/2009 time : 17.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

panya, ND's opinion, why do you ask, he believes that any means up to and including war is justified to eliminate Thaksin. The guy is even happy to shoot down a civilian plane on a legitimate flight path.
comment 91
panya date : 13/11/2009 time : 16.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Ian C87

Don't be stupid. I didn't say I believed it all. I merely asked for nd's opinion, on the basis of what he had just written.
.
comment 90
Ian date : 13/11/2009 time : 15.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, 88. I am not a nay sayer, there are enough hot heads on both sides of the border to precipitate a war. But it will not be a neat surgical war the way you imagine. I might be wrong but I think the "Real" Generals on both sides realise this. Forget the chest thumping armchair Generals, of which Thailand has literally hundreds. The real Generals understand that a war under these circumstances and this terrain can never result in more than a Pyrrhic victory, both countries will be ruined.
Listen to people who have fought in Korea, Vietnam, Mindanao, Timor, even Pattani, a war that involves civilians gets very, very messy.
comment 89
Patriot date : 13/11/2009 time : 15.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Patriot

K. Not Disappointed: Oops! just wanted to get it out of the way. Kindly, put your rocket back in your pocket. Is it possible that the former Prime Minister may do a repeat of what happened in Honduras? Sure, there is a possibility but do I think it will happen? Personally, I think not. Only one of us will be right at the end of the day and time will tell. It's not like you or I can do anything about it anyway if it were to happen.

Sir, what is it exactly that I side stepped? Ask and I will provide my opinion.
comment 88
notdisappointed date : 13/11/2009 time : 15.14


K. Patriot, and what if thaksin does do a Zelaya? Are you going to say Oops!!

Is it beyond the realm of belief of imagination? That is my question. Is it a possibility or not? Or that his organization on the ground, is more effective than Zelaya's.

Can you say with a certainty that thaksin would not even think about it? Are you serious that he wouldn't, I would, wouldn't you? Consider that thaksin's organization is ready and waiting for the first gunshot to be heard and thaksin will be here.

Sorry to say you, sir, that you are in the front-line of those naysayers like Chamberlain and Ian.

Nice of you to speak out but you side-stepped the all but too real possibilities. OU army has distanced themselves from their political masters by deigning to play a game of football with the khmers. And in the meantime the khmers have doubled their forces along the border.

Tell me I'm wrong. That it isn't so.

Tell me who's the dog on the leash hun sen or thaksin? Who gains from this charade being played out by the khmers and khmer lovers?

Tell us of your read of thaksin's interview.

Yes there is much to concern ourselves with; but those concerns are all centric to thaksin.

Of course you know the adage: It's better to be safe than sorry.
comment 87
Ian date : 13/11/2009 time : 13.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Well Patriot seems to be the calm voice of reason, I guess being out side Thailand it is easier not to get swept along by the childish Gung Ho attitude of ND and others. It seems that ND has a clear understanding of Thaksin's strategies, how can Thaksin possible win with ND outguessing him at every move?
And Panya actually believes this compendium of inside knowledge, seeks his opinion.
comment 86
Patriot date : 13/11/2009 time : 13.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Patriot

Khun Stal: Valid points. In my opinion Prime Minister Hun Sen of the CPP is a an old guard politician that understands the political ebb and flow more than most leaders in our region. Thailand as the regional leader must be able to exhibit diplomatic restraint during times of crises, especially when the Kingdom knows full well the intentions of the people behind the instigation.

As for preparing for war, Thailand is always on full alert for war with hawks on every street corner, this is what makes this situation very dangerous. Allow me to make my position clear, please do not misinterpret my peaceful desires as a sign of weakness. I am simply stating that if there is to be war it should be for a better reason than ego. If in fact Thailand was under threat I assure you I would be on the front line.

Furthermore, to seek a crystal clear objective requires us to understand our objectives. Currently the primary objective is purely judicial and requires a diplomatic approach. There should be no other objectives. The appointment of the former Prime Minister as economic advisor, absolute nonsense, in my view they can have him. The ranting and threats of a regional leader, learn to live with it, this is politics. So all this chest pounding is wasting precious time and resources on things that really do not matter. We have other more pressing issues to deal with that effect the lives of Thai people right now. To me, no reaction is a reaction. Let's move on, next!
comment 85
notdisappointed date : 13/11/2009 time : 13.08


Like I said if it were me and thaksin overflew Thai airspace I'd force him to land and barring that shoot him down.

His ducks aren't in place yet and the timesonline boomeranged back into his mouth. But the khmers are poised (just as the Vietnamese were poised to help hun sen); his red forces in Thailand are poised; chavalit is his chief of staff and his class 10 gang are on board; his parliamentary nominees are ready. his surrogates in the bureaucracy and military are ready.

The key will the court adjudication and the up-coming red demonstration next week which will act as the catalyst for the thaksin 'red uprising'.

But you must see don't you? It's not farfetched for him to do a 'Zelaya'. But he has more of an organization and back-up then did Zelaya and a willing neighbor who would fight at his side to ensure that democracy is returned back to Thailand.

All the ingredients of a hot end of year celebration.
comment 84
panya date : 13/11/2009 time : 12.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

nd C82

So what's the likelihood of the fugitive crossing the border this weekend, at the head of all the MPs who should have been at work today? After all, Abhisit Korn etc are away at APEC in Singapore.

It seems someone has been arrested for spying in Cambodia, taking flight/plane numbers. Obviously the idea of forcing Corruption 1 to land was appealing!
.
comment 83
notdisappointed date : 13/11/2009 time : 12.07


For such a young and naive little 'ice cream' girl - you do know how to twist and manipulate people's words around don't you. It's one of the key requirementrs of being a thaksin loyalist.
Denials and distortions.
Half truths and true lies.
Manipulation and insinuations.

You got it all girl. You will go far if thaksin returns.

Dance away little girl; you don't fool me at all.
comment 82
notdisappointed date : 13/11/2009 time : 12.02

Stal here it is again. Don't lose it this time OK?

The strategy is being followed religiously. Although it was made after thaksin's ouster the basic plan remains unchanged although the players such as 3ps have changed and thaksin's nominees are no longer in power. But his surrogates are still deeply entrenched within the bureacucray and military.

Bully boys are being trained in weapons handling to act as bodyguards and protect thaksin when he comes back across the khmer border a la Zelaya to either a stronghold in the Northeast or to the khmer embassy. He will be welcomed by both the military and government officials to increase his credibility and show of establishment support. There will be fighting in the streets. The military are posed to either help one side or the other or to wrest control for themselves. Right now they're going to play football with the kmers on the border.

The khmers themselves have not withdrawn any forces but have used an excuse that they are withdrawing. They have sent in new divisions to replace those to be withdrawn but not yet withdrawn those forces in place. This means that their forces along the border are doubled.

The strategy to undermine Thailand’s Constitutional Monarchy and allow thaksin's hero return is as follows:

“The strategy is broken down into “two (2) divisions”, “3 (three) offensive units”, and “5 (five) battlefields. The two divisions are: angel division with thaksin as its center announcing that he will not be involved with politics, make religious pilgrimages, help the poor, support sports activities and the other hand the “crude division” (reds) will be ‘in the faces’ and attack the alliance against dictatorship (PAD)”

The three offensive units are: one unit to amend the Constitution; a unit to fight PAD in every way, with an eye for an eye and a tooth for tooth mentality; and a unit to take control over every aspect of bureaucracy to use governmental mechanism to fight and undermine opposition.

The five battlefields include:
1. House of Representatives with 3ps MPs in the lead supported by 3ps government;
2. (take control of) Sanam Luang, with the “Crude Division” being the fighting division, supported by 3ps government with Bharn Chun Song La being the Command Center.

Not only this, but there are three “underground” battlefields:
3. attack two Ps ie. Prem and Piya as well as “Sovereign power” by dissemination of a smear campaign of negative reports and news with respect to Royalty and Amart, and the dissemination of a new ‘idealism’ to enable the control of power in the longer term;
4. media battlefield for propaganda purposes; and
5. governmental battlefield which concerns putting only those bureaucrats who support thasinocracy into powerful positions while transferring and penalizing those bureaucrats who don’t support thaksinocracy.”

Now that his ‘overt’ strategy cannot be fulfilled by his 3ps and puea thai, and that Black Songkran was a fiasco thaksin must go ‘covert’. But I think that his intentions are still selfish and focused towards creating instability and divisiveness.

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comment 81
Ian date : 13/11/2009 time : 09.30
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Stal, Plaadip, you both are starting to come across as people actually advocating war or confrontation.
In a confrontation just one nervous soldier can trigger a war. One accidental gunshot can trigger a war.
Do you know what the acronym MAD stands for, it means "Mutually Assured Destruction". This would be the case in a Thai Cambodian war, no winner just losers.
comment 80
HA_HA date : 13/11/2009 time : 08.40

c76 ND :

And how could you accuse Thaksin for inconsistency when you said you yourself are multi-faced?

Time and time again you put your foot in your mouth. I may be naive about Thaksin. BUT why I've never been naived about you? Why i always catch the fault and you prejudice? Why?

By the way how old are you? 60? And are you still ask pocket money from your rich Daddy and Mommy? So much for accusing Thaksin for trying to stand by his own, not getting help from his relatives na. Really shame on you.




"how I choose to write and post depends on the audience in mind. I am perfectly myself. I don't have to be for example; the seeming naive foolish girl that you try to pass off; or the person you read tonite. I, as many of us are, am multi-faceted and multi-colored. Why do I need to be this or that when I am in between."


- ND's Multi-faces


comment 79
stalingrad date : 13/11/2009 time : 02.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

K. patriot c.66: Yes, we have to live as neighbours forever, and the government realizes this. The policy is directed to a leader. Sometimes a state is taken over by someone who may have gone slightly mad, or is great at political posturing. We see many of this type in history. The danger is that the leader is so charismatic that the whole country follows him blindly, and sometimes to their own destruction, as in the case of Germany. Is Hun Sen such a leader? And how to deal with him in proportion to his attacks, without alienating the Cambodian people is a big challenge for Apisit. I hope the lights are on all night at the Foreign and military ministries planning an appropriate response. Hun Sen’s latest interview speaks volumes about his psychological state. In his reference to past Thai support of the Khmer Rouge, he issued a veiled threat that he’ll offer Cambodian soil to Thaksin as a base of subversive operations if we don’t behave, meaning if the Thais don’t get rid of Apisit.

Even if one is peace loving, desirous only of defense, you have to prepare for war anyway, especially you have clear indications—by way of what is clearly a series of provocations. By preparing for war, you can avoid one. To just hope for peace is an illusion, as a broken Chamberlain learned after waving that letter at the airport after the Munich meeting. In the Thai case, in order to plot strategy you’ve got to be crystal clear about the nature of your opponent and the size of his following, as well as how fanatical they are in their support. Here, you’ve got all the elements brewing for a military clash. Let’s hope there are strategies for containment of such clash.
comment 78
stalingrad date : 13/11/2009 time : 01.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Peacefulness c. 64: Thanks for the letter. Just had a chance to read it. Pretty weak letter, akin to Thai glass noodles. Shows lack of depth, conviction, and persuasiveness, more befitting of an Ambassador to a banana republic. Careerist, and even minimalist, to the hilt in tone and substance. All eyes of whoever is anybody were on such a letter, panting with anticipation, expecting a more spirited response to what amounts to an articulate attack on a revered institution would be disappointed, and probably yawned afterwards. ND could have written a better one, more proportionate to the arrogant and irreverent tone of the interview.
comment 77
stalingrad date : 13/11/2009 time : 01.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

ND c 76: Can you remind me what you posted about the strategy again?
comment 76
notdisappointed date : 13/11/2009 time : 00.14

Stal, I did post different 'battlefronts strategy' that was being implementated by thaksin and his minions. Now do you believe?

Tis mnonth and the next are critical for thaksin because we will be seeing a closing of the books with respect to his frozen money!! Today's court hearing regarding this event will have a lasting effect on thaksin and his family. he'll no longer be a billioniare; just a multi-millionare. But how couold he have had so much money without the EEC knowing? Didn't he reposrt it before and after his elections?? Very perculiar.

55, how I choose to write and post depends on the audience in mind. I am perfectly myself. I don't have to be for example; the seeming naive foolish girl that you try to pass off; or the person you read tonite. I, as many of us are, am multi-faceted and multi-colored. Why do I need to be this or that when I am in between.

BUT - On the one hand I am staunchly pro-Royal/Monarchy
and on the other hand staunchly anti-thaksin.

In everything else I am in-between and perfectly myself.

Figure it out yourself or just be blindly stupid; up to you. I could care less about your views.

You've never fooled me little naive ice cream girl.
comment 75
Ian date : 12/11/2009 time : 11.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Plaadip, how can you have a reasonable debate with someone like peacefulness. Is he typical of the unreasoning hatred and lack of logic of many Thais, or is he simply an extreme case that we have to constantly ignore.
Does his head contain any individual thought or is it just filled with propaganda?
comment 74
Plaadip date : 12/11/2009 time : 10.56

C72, Ian, the positon critisize all partys sound most "sensible" because they all are "responsible" for what's happenning now as a player. But the real debate acutally start from there.
comment 73
peacefulness date : 12/11/2009 time : 10.28
NATIONMULTIMEDIA.COM


pics, Square Face attracts Hun Sen V V, Evil attracts Devil V V.........................


CONSPIRACY, CONSPIRACY, CONSPIRACY........
comment 72
Ian date : 12/11/2009 time : 10.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I agree with HA_HA, 69, and therefore with Patriot also. This country is divided by blind hatred and blind love, the voice of reason is silenced.
Abhisit, Thaksin and Hun Sen are turning personal issues into national issues.
comment 71
Plaadip date : 12/11/2009 time : 09.56

We are not in the world of cold war. What's the reasons that the US should put more weight on a side. I can't see any.
comment 70
peacefulness date : 12/11/2009 time : 09.51
nationmultimedia.com


pics, Evil attracts Devil V V......the root of all these messes to our country nowadays: the conspiracy between Thaksin>Chavalit>Hunsen>Thaksin Phnom Penh ............
comment 69
HA_HA date : 12/11/2009 time : 08.21

c62

And you also. With your blind loyalty.

And you know ... while you accuse me for not knowing anything, your knowing to much, have too much time posting in this board and now ORANGE has become suspicious to me also. Besides, you're trying to present yourself differently in ORANGE that's suspicious too... It seems to systematic to me. Becuase you think the old agressiveness and rude here doesn't work, chai mai la?



------------------------------------


K. stal ... if you want to know my opinion, i'm with mr. patriot c66. My may not be political correct because i said out right that all the negative opinions are just speculation. And I want to add that.

In Thailand now you can see both, blind hate and blind love. And this is all from what the Media shouting in people ears everyday who is so good and who is so bad. So it's not unusal for even sensible people who watch ASTV and all the propoganda to fall into those traps. Thanks to the Internet it's not so easy anymore.


For me, it's no matter which country to help. I'm for the world not for any country and has no hate in any country.



comment 68
happyjack date : 12/11/2009 time : 07.46

Why ignore the fact the Arms Industry has a major say in starting conflict.They pay billions to lobbyists.Why.
comment 67
massein date : 12/11/2009 time : 07.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

Ian when did the USA stab Britain in the back. Now I can foresee the US stabing Isreal in the back very soon, I woill amit
if i was a world power, i would hesitate to except the US as a ally, for we often quit and run. IE: VietNam, Korea.
We can't seen to stick to our guns, when the going get rough we get going.
comment 66
Patriot date : 12/11/2009 time : 06.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Patriot

Khun Stal: I am very satisfied with the diplomacy and prudence in which this misunderstanding by instigation is being handled by the current leadership. It is a good sign of strength to other regional leadership that we choose to use the rule of law and diplomacy instead of the street fighting tactics of instigators in waiting.

What Cambodia has decided to do in their best interest is their business even though we may not agree with their irrational actions or intentions, nevertheless it is still their right to do what they wish. What Thailand cannot allow to happen is an escalation that has the potential to lead to a regional conflict because of the taunting of ill willed people with agendas that seek instability and mayhem. The rule of law has a long memory and a judicial persistency that should be allowed to mature, no matter how long it takes.

We currently have many challenges on many fronts such as the global economic downturn as well as global political climates that are very fluid, thus our focus should be on protecting Thailand and our people from these challenges.

As an ASEAN partner, Cambodia has a vast and energetic culture that I have great respect for. In the past we have had mutually beneficial relations economically and socially, this relationship should not interrupted because of misunderstanding or misplaced ambitions of power mongers that seek to sever a long term bond through short term, delusional, self-centered aspirations.

Thailand and Cambodia are good neighbors, we may not always agree on everything but in the long term we will still have to be neighbors for many more centuries to come. We should maintain our focus on the betterment of our people and try to reflect strongly on situations that needlessly stir up unnecessary negative sentiment for both our populations sake.

I truly hope that this misunderstanding can be resolved without further escalation and we can once again enjoy peaceful and beneficial relations between two friendly neighbors.
comment 65
happyjack date : 12/11/2009 time : 06.29

The American People were not the slow ones,it took the Jewish Arms Makers to long to check the Prifit Margin.
comment 64
peacefulness date : 12/11/2009 time : 00.12
nationmultimedia.com

just fyi, press release from MFA, royal thai amb's letter to editor times onlines.

Qte


Dear Editor James Harding,

Richard Lloyd Parry’s article “Exiled leader breaks taboo to woo the royal heir” appeared in the Times on 9 November 2009 as well as on TimesOnline “Ousted Thai leader Thaksin Shinawatra calls for ‘shining’ new age after King’s death” contains points of misinformation and misunderstanding concerning the role of the Thai monarchy and status of Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra, which I wish to clarify.



First, according to the Thai Constitution, the King is above politics and does not take sides. Over the years, His Majesty has kept to his constitutional role, even whilst some groups have claimed royal support for their political ends.



The King learned of the coup of 19 September 2006 only after the armed forces had already taken control. An audience was granted at the request of the armed forces to report on the situation and on action taken. The granting of the royal audience was consistent with his apolitical role and did not amount to giving his ‘acceptance’ to such action.



Second, in accordance with Thai law, clear procedures should be followed before the King is to consider a petition for a royal pardon. Nevertheless, it is noteworthy that until now there has not been a formal petition for a royal pardon filed by Dr. Shinawatra himself as the person convicted, or by such concerned persons as his relatives or designated lawyer, a legal prerequisite of the royal pardon process to begin.



Lastly, Dr. Shinawatra is neither Thailand’s current opposition leader nor a leader in exile, but a person who is choosing to stay aboard to avoid a two-year jail term resulting from a finalised corruption case.



It would be highly appreciated if this letter could be published.

Yours sincerely,



Signed



(Kitti Wasinondh)
Ambassador








Mr. James harding,
Editor,
The Times,
LONDON.


Unqte
comment 63
peacefulness date : 11/11/2009 time : 23.41
nationmultimedia.com

just fyi---- press release from MFA...

Qte
Press Release
- Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs answers questions on Cambodian Prime Minister’s recent interview

November 11, 2009, 11:53 am


On 9 November 2009, Mr. Chavanond Intarakomalyasut, Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, answered press queries concerning the interview about Thailand given by Samdech Hun Sen, Prime Minister of Cambodia, on 8 November, 2009. Gist as follows:
1. Criticism of Thailand’s internal affairs and Thai judicial system
The views expressed by Cambodian Prime Minister on Thailand’s domestic politics and the Thai judicial system and courts clearly constitute once again interference in Thailand’s internal affairs. For a leader of one country to do so to another country goes against accepted international norms. The Government of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was established through parliamentary process in accordance with the Constitution of Thailand. Furthermore, the Thai judicial system is well established and recognised, with judges considering all legal cases in accordance with the law and with complete professionalism and independence. This is the very same justice system in which Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra himself had placed his trust and participated in beforehand. It was only when he realized that he would lose the case that he fled the country.
In terms of democratic ideals, the Thai society is still evolving towards a fuller and more vibrant democracy. During this process of political development, some issues may arise that are internal in nature and which the Thai people themselves have to resolve. A foreign leader should not criticize these developments. Just as some scholars or students of political science might want to study or discuss academically how free and democratic Cambodia is, the Royal Thai Government would refrain from expressing its opinion on the matter.
2. Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra’s appointment as an economic advisor to the Royal Government of Cambodia
Although the Cambodian Prime Minister may state that the Royal Government of Cambodia has the right to make such an appointment, it must be reiterated that the appointment of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin as an economic advisor to the Royal Government of Cambodia and a personal advisor to the Cambodian Prime Minister has affected the sentiment of all Thais. This is because Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin is a fugitive sentenced by the Thai court in a criminal case, is still active politically in Thai politics, and is connected to the recent unrest in Thailand. Such an appointment therefore constitutes a clear case of interference in Thailand’s internal affairs and reflects personal interests taking precedence over bilateral relations between the two countries. This is an issue the Cambodian Prime Minister should understand well as the Royal Thai Government has explained the situation to him on several occasions.
3. Cambodian Prime Minister’s claim that “Thailand will close its border” and its impact on the economy
Prime Minister Abhisit has stated clearly that Thailand and the Royal Thai Government did not initiate the recent problems in Thai-Cambodian relations. Rather, it was the action of the Cambodian side that has affected strongly the feelings of the Thai people. As a result, the Royal Thai Government had to express Thailand’s displeasure and protect the honour and dignity of the nation and that of the Thai judicial system, as well as to safeguard the national interest of Thailand and of the Thai people. The Thai Prime Minister also made clear that all measures taken would be at the government-to-government level, and that the Royal Thai Government would avoid taking any action that would create hardship for the peoples of the two countries.
The rumour on “border closure by the Thai side” is simply erroneous. The Thai Prime Minister has stated clearly time and again that the Thai-Cambodian border would not be closed at this juncture. The peoples of both sides should therefore not be concerned about the economic impact of the situation. Irrespective of how the situation may develop, the Royal Thai Government would do its utmost to alleviate any adverse effect upon the people -- an approach that the Cambodian Prime Minister also seemed to agree with in his interview. Therefore, should the Royal Government of Cambodia itself decide in the future to take any measure that might affect the Cambodian people, Cambodian consumers, or Cambodian businesses, especially those along the border area, it is hoped that such a decision would be well considered and thought through beforehand.
As for the impact on trade, the current state of bilateral relations has affected both sides. Yet, it would be premature for the Cambodian Prime Minister to conclude that the Thai side would suffer more in the long run. Taking into account the size, business potential, market and international trade of the Thai economy, the Royal Thai Government firmly believes that Thailand’s economic fundamentals are still very strong. It is not the Royal Thai Government’s wish for either country’s economy to be affected. One, however, has to trace back to the root cause of the present problem. As the Cambodian Prime Minister was the one who created the problem, he should be the one to try to resolve it. Otherwise, he would have to bear the consequences of his own actions.
4. The termination of the MOU between the Thailand and Cambodia regarding the area of their overlapping maritime claims to the continental shelf
Thailand has considered carefully the making of the Memorandum of Understanding between the Royal Thai Government and the Royal Government of Cambodia regarding the Area of their Overlapping Maritime Claims to the Continental Shelf, dated 18 June 2001 (MOU 2001), which was concluded during the time of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin's government. The appointment of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin as an economic advisor to the Royal Government of Cambodia will directly affect negotiations between Thailand and Cambodia under the framework of this MOU. As Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin was directly involved in advocating the concluding of this MOU during his government, he has detailed knowledge of the Thailand’s negotiation position, as well as information on natural resources in the area and Thailand’s interest in the matter. As such, the Royal Thai Government cannot continue negotiations with Cambodia under the said MOU.
5. Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin’s conviction and applicability of the extradition treaty
The Cambodian Prime Minister’s assertion that the coup d'état of 19 September 2006 led to legal actions against Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin and that therefore all cases against the latter are politically motivated is also not true. The former prime minister was convicted of conflict of interest under Section 100 and 122 of the National Counter Corruption Act B.E. 2542 (1999) in the case concerning the purchase of four plots of land on Ratchadapisek put up for auction by the Bank of Thailand’s Financial Institutions Development Fund (FIDF) in 2003. On 21 October 2008, the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Persons Holding Political Positions found Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin guilty of the offence under Section 100 (1) paragraph 3 which states that government officials including prime ministers and their spouses are prohibited from entering into or having interests in contracts with state agencies under their supervision. Accordingly, Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin shall be liable to imprisonment for two years under Section 122 paragraph 1 of the same Act.
This case, as well as other cases still before the court, has nothing to do with the events of 19 September 2006 or with any organization established thereafter. In the Ratchadapisek land case, it was the Office of the Attorney-General who filed the case with the Supreme Court. Both the Office of the Attorney-General and the Court are independent entities with no connection whatsoever with the coup d'état of 19 September 2006. The non-partisan apolitical nature of the case can be seen from the fact that the case was under trial and the Supreme Court reached the verdict while the governments of Samak Sundaravej and Somchai Wongsawat, both of which have close ties with Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin, were in power. This is simply a criminal case of corruption, not a political offence.
6. Problems related to the Temple of Phra Viharn and the border dispute
The position of the Royal Thai Government concerning the border dispute remains unchanged. Thailand has always intended to use peaceful means to resolve the dispute and has always relied on international law to settle any disagreement with its neighbours. In addition, all actions of the Royal Thai Government have to be in compliance with the procedure stipulated by the Constitution. As for the reported remarks made by the Speaker of the National Assembly which the Cambodian Prime Minister used for the basis of his claim about the status of the Agreed Minutes of the Joint Boundary Commission (JBC) meetings as well as the negotiation framework for the said body, the Thai side has already informed the Cambodian side during the 6th Meeting of the Joint Commission for Bilateral Cooperation (JC) in Bangkok last August that it was a minor misunderstanding by the Speaker. The fact is that the Agreed Minutes of the JBC have not yet been approved by Parliament. Such approval is required by the Thai Constitution before the Government could take any further action.



************************Unqte
comment 62
notdisappointed date : 11/11/2009 time : 23.06


and as usual she dances away after commenting that she doesn't know anything, only that thaksin is a saint in her eyes.

Nothing else matters.

Blind loyalty in the face of facts is just stupid.
comment 61
notdisappointed date : 11/11/2009 time : 22.21

Ian only in that the US supported him til his ouster.

No one is as bad as hun sen; be a little more considerate to Adam and Eve blood relative can't you?
comment 60
HA_HA date : 11/11/2009 time : 22.01

c57

k. stal - i have nothing to share about Thaksin and Hunsen. i have no opinion of what thaksin is going to do or kampuchean strategy or calculation. i have no bad thought about thaksin until he does something bad.

All I know is Hunsen invited Thaksin to be his economic advisor and Thaksin has accepted. And that is that.

All who said thaksin would do that do this to Thailand...blah...blah..blah...is just speculation out of their own prejudice and angriness and only to cause more hate.

Honestly, I didn't read your opinion or any comment here except your c57. ...too boring...and i don't like to read speculation becuase it's just speculation.

my opinion about how i feel about thaksin is the same.always the same like i wrote in some blogs.
i won't repeat. ..have some work to finish.

goodnite.



comment 59
Ian date : 11/11/2009 time : 21.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, I trust you are not implying that Abhasit is another Halie Selassie? Hun Sen probably comes nearer but even so is a long way short.
comment 58
notdisappointed date : 11/11/2009 time : 21.26


Erik I guess it's better to do this here then over there. Given that Obama will be coming over in a couple of weeks. Some little interest will be given to this storm in a teacup. Presently Thailand vs. hun sen. I'd go for Thailand.

Now stop that!!

Don't put such strong words like 'pathological' in my mouth. I just dislike the guy irrespective of what little he had done for the little people. And what he's doing now is disgusting considering who he's in bed with. Pure genius mind you; but disgusting anyways.

Ian - Halie Selassie
comment 57
stalingrad date : 11/11/2009 time : 19.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Ha Ha c.44, 47: Don't know what you mean. Let me explain. These postings of mine are for discussion of a very important development which affects eveyone around here. So it is right that someone is going around looking for ideas on how it will and can end. It is not to show off or anything juvenile like that.

It is simple: I have these viewpoints and what is the response of those interested. Share them. For example, I would like to know your thoughts on my interpretation of Thaksin, of the old order etc., seeing you as representative of a segment of the young population who are sympathetic to Thaksin. Let it out. It's really that simple.
comment 56
Ian date : 11/11/2009 time : 18.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

massein, 54. try 1956, it's a bit more recent
comment 55
ErikOrange date : 11/11/2009 time : 18.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ErikofOrange

ND (C 49)

“With respect to international law and polity of nations of course the US would support her ally and friend the Kingdom of Thailand over a country led by a thug. Wouldn't you?”

Are you speaking of the Thai Generals and their puppet PM Abhisit now? An oligarchy leading Thailand straight into a despotic undemocratic regime with methods similar of that of a police state? I am not sure who the biggest thug is anymore.

But I am sure if this conflict escalates into an armed one, it will be perceived as if Thailand wants to overturn a verdict from the ICJ by the methods of a superior bully and a “thug”. This will lead to public sympathy for the Cambodians, at least in the West and I will be very surprised if economical and political sanctions will not follow due to political correctness. Simply because Thailand is not that important a country not to impose sanctions due to pragmatism.

BTW; there were some points you didn’t comment on. For instance the pathological hatred of Thaksin.
comment 54
massein date : 11/11/2009 time : 16.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

That was 1812
comment 53
massein date : 11/11/2009 time : 16.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

OK Ian the last time the US took a stab at England, For christ shake you burned down Washing DC what did you expect, Just where did we stab you in the back, sure we were slow in both wars to arrive but once we did we did our share thank you, a little gratitude go a long ways
comment 52
happyjack date : 11/11/2009 time : 15.41

Bout time we declared War on Leaders,i for one am sick of the bickering....About what ???....a Bloody Temple,A Rouge Advocate,and a Telephone Salesman.
comment 51
Ian date : 11/11/2009 time : 14.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND 49. Are you really that naive? " of course the US would support her ally and friend the Kingdom of Thailand over a country led by a thug. Wouldn't you?"

Nasser?
comment 50
Plaadip date : 11/11/2009 time : 11.09

C47, HA_HA We are actually sit back in front of computer.
comment 49
notdisappointed date : 11/11/2009 time : 10.35


Erik c42, Now that was uncalled for my friend. I didn't say if there were to be a war that the US would support Thailand over khampuchea. You took it out of context. (But it fit well with your diatribe )

I said that a war would not ensue not even a punitive war.

With respect to international law and polity of nations of course the US would support her ally and friend the Kingdom of Thailand over a country led by a thug. Wouldn't you?
comment 48
Ian date : 11/11/2009 time : 10.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND 40. Yes a good laugh, if America had not stabbed Britain, France and Israel in the back there would have been no Palestinian problem, nor Iraq, Lebanon and now Iran problems.
America has harvested what she sowed.
comment 47
HA_HA date : 11/11/2009 time : 09.40

it seems to me the hate the chaos these days is because of imagination, speculation, panic based on prejudice.

why can't people just relax, sit back, wait and see what will really happen and take action according to reality? do we really know? or do we want to just show off "I know best" ?



comment 46
Plaadip date : 11/11/2009 time : 09.39

C41 "7 million Cambodian adults are just a militia that are able to launch irregular guerrila war" Sanuuk jin jin, they don't have such a big number for their national defense, because according to you, they have "mine belt" 12-25 km inside form Thailand border. They have already occupied the boarder area.
comment 45
Plaadip date : 11/11/2009 time : 09.34

C43, block court!? that will decide which country is right or not? Maybe it's better we have the wrold government. :)
comment 44
HA_HA date : 11/11/2009 time : 09.27

"Kampuchean strategy and calculations!!!!"

wow wow wow ...expert jing jing. let's see.


comment 43
wch date : 11/11/2009 time : 08.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

ASEAN needs an independent arbitration body or even own bloc court that are the instrument to solve regional problem initially.

As long as the political boundary, WWII has not finished in this region. Still are many places remained dubiously, along land border, islets as well as territorial waters and EEZ.

If all those problems coming could not be timely and efficiently solved, ASEAN turns to be merely a talk-show.
comment 42
ErikOrange date : 11/11/2009 time : 05.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ErikofOrange

ND (C40) if you get a laugh out of Suez I at least get a laugh out of this;

“The US will not support khamphuchea over their friends the Thais. Thai/US relationship goes back hundreds of years and we have shown our friendship and solidairty with the US many times in the past.” (ND C 35)

Which country is the last one Thailand went to war with again? You remember that small one from 1941 to 1945 where even the Thai ambassador to Washington refused to deliver the declaration of war? Foreign policy is based on pragmatism, own national interest and at least in the West a dose of political correctness when it comes to be perceived as acting morally correct by its PC orientated populace, who couldn’t really care a damn about South East Asia except they sympathise with the Cambodians over Pol Pot.

Lonewolf seems to be one of the very few in this nationalistic blogsite having a realistic view on this conflict, situation and the possible outcome, the rest seems to be driven by a pathological hatred for the one they perceive as the devil in disguise; Thaksin Shinawatra. The problem with this hatred is while the war mongering PAD supporters loath and hate Thaksin, a very large proportion of the Thai people if not the majority perceives the same man as a great hero.

And now the same Thaksin haters are willing to agitate and wage war on this? Staged nationalism based on empty rhetoric is what this could best be described as. Beware of what you wish for because you might get it. The PAD and their Yellow supporters inside or outside the government is driving Thailand into an economical crisis of proportions not voluntarily seen before and more and more into the police state conditions Thailand now is becoming infamously reputed for. Banning interviews in foreign news media from being mentioned domestically is always a sign of such conditions and having a information ministry using tactics learnt from Goebbels the same.

Lonewolf is very correct in his analysis; in case of a war Thailand will be deemed an aggressor and at least from the West the country will face economical and political sanctions; lose trade, lose tourism, lose international sympathy most importantly amongst the general public, lose work places and people will lose their life. And for what? Many of you are naïve such a war will be a “one battle” victory. As Lonewolf already stated if war a military victory will only become a pyrrhic one and Cambodia will have more than their fair chance in a post war international tribunal of getting it their way.

As in every war it will be the common people suffering if it comes to a war, the elite will be safe abroad anyway. I guess that is why the Yellows are staging this nationalistic propaganda show in the first place. They are not amongst those risking anything, just staging it as usual. And in the end will boast about what a tremendous party it all was again? No wonder Kasit is their ever most favourite Excellency in the Foreign Ministry!

PS! Stalingrad did by the way accidentally or not bump onto the real reason behind all of this in his C18; “why should Apisit dissolve the House now, when an international crisis is brewing.”. Stage nationalism, create a crisis and you gain political capital. I am not sure if this will save or gain his political career in the long run though; it’s too late for him.
comment 41
wch date : 11/11/2009 time : 01.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

7 million Cambodian adults are just a militia that are able to launch irregular guerrila war. This style is very strong point in the frontline-non-existent battle.

To encounter and win the war, Thailand must call the reserves of at least 400,000 and organize the militia and arm in every province along Cambodian border. This war planning does not exist in Thailand. No foods on battle, no firearms on the additional forces. Their field artillery is scrap condition. No mine field bull dozers,,,
Their stilts aircraft carrier has no fighter jet, no gunship helicopter,,

This all, together with my previous lists,, Thailand can not win a war and they are not afforded to it.
Even war preparatory stage, several government will be melt down. People will refuse to go war.

Once Thailand enter into war time, every border flash points occure, Laos, Burma, Malaysia and the southern muslim separatists will be fully organized until they can even undertake regular war against Thai's fourth army (like present Teleban).

This all, it is the very reasons why Thailand must solve Cambodian dispute through diplomatic method only and if possible they must take the issue in multiple decision making process - ASEAN.
comment 40
notdisappointed date : 10/11/2009 time : 23.28

ian c36 I got a BIG laugh out of 'Suez'!!

Imagine how the Middle East would have been without the backstabbing of Suez!

Priceless.

But still better a friend you know than bringing a snake into your own home.
comment 39
stalingrad date : 10/11/2009 time : 22.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

ND 35: I don't underestimate Thaksin. He is capable of many things. His trip to Cambodia, I see as a testing of the waters, a scouting trip. His interview may also be calculated to gauge the extent of his popularity with the red shirts who are to be his militia and praetorian guard should he attempt a return. If they defend his stance it means they are for him and against the system.

I think he is still full of fight. He wants revolution; he said so himself in the Times interview. The rubicon has been crossed. It's a fight to the finish and people must understand this. But it’s not a real revolution as you find in history, because he is tainted meat, a robber baron. He is not a Robespierre or a Lenin. I’ve never seen his type win. Unless he creates new history.

As for the Americans, they have shown to be so fickle so I don’t rely on them at all to do anything. As for them needing a base around here, well, Cambodia is an option but studying their political (Cambodian) history, I don’t know, don’t know if that would be wise.
comment 38
lonewolf date : 10/11/2009 time : 22.37

ND you have a myopic view of the current discord between Cambodia and Thailand. In many ways it is understandable and natural, as you certainly come across as a conscientious patriot. But having a one-sided view of such an event will inevitably lead to a limited perspective of possible outcomes…and if Thai diplomats are making the same calculations they are opening the door for avoidable errors of judgment. It does not matter who started the opening salvo in a dispute such as this as both countries will fire up their respective public relations teams to claim the other started the problem. Remember the international community is not going to take the time to review all the details of this argument—they will just see the bigger picture issues…the main one is that Thailand is a bigger country fighting with a smaller country.

There is no contention that Hun Sen is a barbarous opportunist but he is also a survivor who would sacrifice his people (who are equally as patriotic as are you). Citizens of Cambodia are used to poor living conditions already…how much lower could those conditions become for Cambodians if there was another war in their homeland?

There is an old saying that when you begin to argue with a fool your neighbors will not be able to remember which one was the original fool.

And with respect to the US…Cambodia is a country containing a wealth of natural resources but with a small population ruled by a despot who is easily controlled by money. Its business and investment regulations are also made for international investment and ownership. And perhaps more importantly, Japan will soon request that the US Air Force base in Okinawa be closed and moved out of the country which would leave the option of moving to an already overcrowded Guam or build a new base in the centrally located area of Cambodia closer to China, India and Afghanistan…who do you really think the US would favor under these scenarios…regardless of past friendships. The US will make decisions upon what is in best the interests of the US.
comment 37
stalingrad date : 10/11/2009 time : 22.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

wch c 29,30: The scenario is interesting, and indeed if I were Khmer and if there was a declaration of war, this would be good offensive strategy. But I don't think it will progress to this for many reasons.

Even if it is played out as you say, the defense would not be just by the military but also by the people, who would form militias if the Cambodians penetrate deep. As for red shirts siding with the Cambodian- Thaksin alliance, I doubt it though I don't reject the idea. I don't think it will evolve that far. You're talking civil war like in Russia 1917.

Anyway, scenario building is necessary. Because, in general, what has been viewed as impossible has sometimes occured.
comment 36
Ian date : 10/11/2009 time : 21.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, I did not think you were naive, "The US will not support khamphuchea over their friends the Thais. Thai/US relationship goes back hundreds of years and we have shown our friendship and solidairty with the US many times in the past."

I say one word to you "Suez".
comment 35
notdisappointed date : 10/11/2009 time : 21.17


It would seem that thaksin's stratgy is working out well.

Abeit not to his favor nor his good friend's.

The interview was a disastor and thaksin is on the back foot screaming "distortions". His forked tongue will now be increasingly checked for lies and half truths.

Our friends Ian, mass, lonewolf, 55, Al, pjsy, catch want Thais/AV to negotiate and beg discussions from hun sen.

Go Figure!

As though it's our fault.
As though we initiated this charade 3 weeks ago.

It wasn't us who asked chavalit to visit hun sen and then have hun sen state that he would provide sanctuary for thaksin no matter any existing 'extradition treaty'.

It wasn't us who threw shit into the fan at the ASEAN meeting; hoping to discredit AV and Thailand.

It wasn't us who appointed under the khmer king's signature, a convicted felon in flight.

It wasn't us who is interfering with the justice system in a neighboring country.

It wasn't us who is interfering with the political system of a neighboring country (and now telling a leader of that country to hold elections!)

Who would listen to thaksin's call for peace if fighting broke out; it would have been the result of machinations!! What a naive suggestion!

No there's no need to fight a war; even a short-lived punitive war. An economic war and driving the khmers workers from the land will create enough hardship for hun sen's economic adviser to have lots of work.

If enough hardship is brought to bear upon the khmers; perhaps we'll see a coup to depose hun sen for his many personal policy a national one.

And the khmers cannot actually get to the disputed aea in the Gulf without the Thai navy blockage.

The US will not support khamphuchea over their friends the Thais. Thai/US relationship goes back hundreds of years and we have shown our friendship and solidairty with the US many times in the past.

wch, Thailand has not violated int'l court re. Phra Viharn; Thailand is only showing its rights to the disputed 4.7 sq Km which thaksin and noppadon snuck in as part of the package.
comment 34
Ian date : 10/11/2009 time : 15.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Plaadip, you let your thoughts be controlled to often by your prejudices. I meant that he could step outside the conflict yet with a foot in both warring camps negotiate a settlement between the two.
comment 33
Plaadip date : 10/11/2009 time : 10.30

C32 Ian, brokering the peace from the enemy side will not give a bid popularity boost for Thaksin. If he did not accpet the offer from Hun Sen, he might be able to claim himself as a honest arbitrator. But it became something impossible for him, now.
comment 32
Ian date : 10/11/2009 time : 10.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I think there are too many blogs on the same topic, this causes confusion and repetition. The Thaksin Times interview is being overplayed by the Abhisit group, it could backfire.
If fighting should occur on the border Thaksin could improve his standing by brokering a peace, something Abhisit seems incapable of doing.
My assessment of the military capabilities is much in line with wch.
Lonewolf also makes some very good points.
comment 31
Plaadip date : 10/11/2009 time : 09.10

C29, hahaha Cambodian army has never succeeded in the type of agression war in its modern history. And if the situation boiled into the point, Cambodian workes has been already deported, I guess. And Thakisn cannot organize "guerrira troops" with the assistant of Phnom Penh, because they can't be pro-Thaksin if a war "should" take place with Cambodia.

Is there a mine belt 12-15 kilometer inside Thai territory from PV temple? So Thai troops cannot move their troops to protect their boarder. Thai is defeated already. Interesting information, indeed.
comment 30
wch date : 10/11/2009 time : 08.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

Also some anti-government force is expected organized in the regions of Udon, Sakorn Nakorn and Kalasin that were the communist strongholds and strong pro-Thaksin forces.
They may collaborate Cambodian forces.
comment 29
wch date : 10/11/2009 time : 08.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

Cambodia will let in Thai troop deep inside own country and start hunt-down. All Cambodians has own weapon and excellent sniper shooters.

Cambodia will organize Cambodian workers inside Thailand and attack the department stores. 10-100 guerilla group can continue campaign in the department stores for a time without external supplies such as water and foods.

Cambodia will attack several gas flatforms to set embargo in the gulf against Thai sea transportation and navy fleet.

Cambodia will quickly occupy the 'tail' of Trat province, that is main cause of EEZ line drawings.
This tail is still disputable.

Main military goal of Cambodia is the southern land of Moon and Chi rivers, that is traditionally believed as Cambodian land. Also securing the land, their Prea Vihare castle is firmly secured. Khmer Roug once targetted this land and both sides laid heavy mine belt. It is 12-25km inside Thailand and left unmined yet. They are believed a million mines.

(If anyone think I am favouring Cambodia, it is wrong. what I list here is for Thais to prepare for them in advance).
comment 28
Plaadip date : 10/11/2009 time : 08.38

C27 I think neither side want a protracted war and they won't do so. And I don't think Cambodia is battle hardened. Actually, most credits of "liberation of Cambodia" should go to CPV and military assitance from China. Even another "liberation from KR in 1979 was done by Vietnam no by themselves. And the army never has been well organized since then. I think every journalists knows it if they covered the army.

I rather think the best advatage of Cambodia, if two countries "should" get into a war, is that her public will not response to the casualty or loss caused by the war as Thais do. If the fatality reached, for example, 300 death of their soldiers, it became a big political issue in Thailand and probably create anti-war public response ,at least, in some part of the society, but in Cambodia, I think there would be little impact on the Hun Sen's grip of political power.
comment 27
wch date : 10/11/2009 time : 08.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

Any military action will devastate Thailand.
Thailand has some more hardware but they have no ability to war planning, deployment of troop and how to finalize war victory.
If Thailand invade Cambodia, the southern part of Moon-Chi river will fall within a week.
Let me bet on this.
comment 26
Plaadip date : 10/11/2009 time : 07.08

C25, Hahaha, so Thaksin should say something with "tears in his eyes" in today's vidoe link or phone in, won't he? He will do it if he's cleaver enough.

But I don't know. Another "misjudgement"? I can't understahd from the beginning how come it can benefit Thaksin.
comment 25
stalingrad date : 10/11/2009 time : 06.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Events are moving really fast. As I woke up the situation has changed as all the players assessed the Thai government's and the people's response. Hun Sen is now seen by the people as an enemy and Thaksin, Pua Thai are working 24/7 to get out of their predicament, including maybe a cancellation of the visit. Then, the Times interview is another big negative for Thaksin. I've read it and can instantly see that's it's prime meat (politically). It bares a lot about his real political inclination. Might as well take off his gloves and be done with it.

It's been said living isolated in the desert too long affects one's judgement.
comment 24
Plaadip date : 10/11/2009 time : 06.14

Sorry, previous comment to C18. Boarder closuer will give the reason that PT and Thaksin critisis the current government, but if it escalates to a fighting which causes casualty in Thai soliders, it will only push Thakisn and hie followers in a difficult position., because it becomes a question of loyalty.
comment 23
Plaadip date : 10/11/2009 time : 06.08

C23, if a larger boarder skirmish with Camboida should take place, and Thaksin is in the enemy's side who killed Thai soliders, how would Thai see him? I think this is the trap that Thaksin and PT party got in.
comment 22
peacefulness date : 10/11/2009 time : 00.01
nationmultimedia.com

khun stalingrad---- always good news from h.e.abhisit vejjajiva eventhough he is the most unlucky pm at the very turmoil-situation of our country, politically, economically and socially plus those evil redshirts under the square face.

i am quite sure he can undertake all the uphill task that are facing our beloved country.

i always believe that "tum dee dai dee, tum chua dai chua , cha rueh reow" tks good nite.
comment 21
stalingrad date : 09/11/2009 time : 23.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

sorry on the typos. Good night all, will it be good new or bad news when I wake up?
comment 20
stalingrad date : 09/11/2009 time : 23.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Lonewolf; yes, good points. I agree with some of them, esp. on the futility of a military victory. The Cambodians gain even if they lose militarily in a clash. They can always play on the international community sympathy for an underdog. But no government can't ignore what the Cambodians did, even if it wanted to do like you said, for domestic political reasons. It can safely act in proportion to what was done to the country, no one is going to complain about that. And I think what was done and will be done is and will be proportionate. The Democrats are careful on this.

As to the power's position on Thailand vrs Cambodia, I'm not so sure. Their intelligence is very good these days and they know who started these things, the motives etc. The British were very penetrating and could see through things when they decided to revoke Thaksin's visa, though at the time the elite international press like the Economist ware pandering to Thaksin (and still are). The only reason why the powers might want to side with Cambodia is because they want to keep a rough balance in Southeast Asia, not allowing Thailand to get too powerful. It's all still a balance of power game. Also, Cambodia is still at a pristine stage in the exploitation of certain natural resources and foreign governments would love a piece of the action for their multinationals.
comment 19
lonewolf date : 09/11/2009 time : 23.15

Khun Stalingrad, the US has never shied away from working with a country which is ruled by a dictator…in recent times it happened in Chile, Iran (under the Shah), Iraq (when they were fighting against Iran). Hun Sen is for all intent and purposes a despot/dictator with limited concern for the well-being of his country or its people…if the US wants a base in Cambodia they will certainly work with Hun Sen. In addition the US government has a soft spot for Cambodia, whether it is collective guilt for standing on the sidelines during the Pol Pot reign of terror or for other reasons, diplomatically they would quietly support Cambodia in any armed conflict with Thailand. In addition countries like France will also provide material and emotional support for Cambodia.

Thailand has sadly institutionalized xenophobia throughout the government and in its international diplomacy— as a consequence it would stand alone in a conflict against Cambodia. Any post-war international convention would surely favor Cambodia. (And perhaps even realign the border in Cambodia’s favor.) To the world it would appear that Thailand would be picking on a smaller neighbor…even China which seeks to gorge itself on the natural resources in Cambodia would not dare take sides.

The Thai people are very proud of their country and do not lack in patriotism, that is never in question…but at what price and at what limits would you place on patriotism. Even if Thailand gained a military victory against Cambodia it would be a Pyrrhic one at best. The devastation to Thailand’s economy, and international reputation, (not to mention loss of life) would likely take a generation to recoup.

As a person who is emotionally attached to Thailand I would hope that for the future well-being of this country that the Thai government takes a higher position in dealing with Hun Sen. By ignoring him you take away his value and his message.
comment 18
stalingrad date : 09/11/2009 time : 22.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Plaadip: indeed, why should Apisit dissolve the House now, when an international crisis is brewing. All the more reason now not to dissolve. Only will there be a big set back internationally will there be good grounds for demanding a House dissolution. And Cambodia might engineer a military clash and if they win, this then might help the Pua Thai to put legitimate pressure on the government to dissolve.
comment 17
stalingrad date : 09/11/2009 time : 22.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Peacefulness: thanks for the news. I'll read the Times thing tonight. This week is likely to be a tense week indeed. But dark clouds, they come and one day they're gone.
comment 16
stalingrad date : 09/11/2009 time : 22.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Ian and Massein: Many moons ago I would have agreed with you, but I wouldn't knock the Thai armed forces today, even though they haven't fought big traditional battles but their military prowess have been honed in a series of small scale operations, and their training has been a quality one. So in the terrain that they are to fight, mainly jungle, they would do OK. They did a good, disciplined job during the April riots, and the leadership nowadays is quite professional. Having said that, there really is no point in fighting battles with Cambodia at all, from the Thai point of view. But the Cambodians are likely to attack first because they have a political purpose in provoking a violent response from Thailand, so then they can cry wolf and manipulate the powers to put some sort of cordon between them and Thailand. And a clash would raise Hun Sen's status to a hero, for standing up to big brother.

Any clash is likely to be brief as both are short on ammunition and other supplies. So both have got to win politically within a short time.
comment 15
yabua date : 09/11/2009 time : 21.40
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yabua

Wowwwwwww!
From the Nation´s breaking news. Khun Thug just announced that Times online made things up. He never said anything "like that" at all.

The journalist must be so poor that he could be paid to badmouth about the great genious Cambodian financial adviser.
comment 14
yabua date : 09/11/2009 time : 19.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yabua

Oh! I am very sorry WCH San. I didn´t mean to disturb you. Actually I referred to C10&11.
comment 13
yabua date : 09/11/2009 time : 19.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yabua

Re C11&12
Khunlung Peacefulness,
Thank you very much for your info.
I have read through 12 paces. I think the journalist was quite good and the crook´s style of giving interview which was full of lies, distortions and manipulations did remind me of a German old friend.
Now I know who is my friend´s idol.
comment 12
wch date : 09/11/2009 time : 18.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

Pladeep pointed the real point, " Hun Sen asked AV to dissolve the parliament" as if Germany had asked the British to submit, 555.

Let me see, what Thailand will do to this 'advice", 555
comment 11
peacefulness date : 09/11/2009 time : 17.27
nationmultimedia.com

latest from bkk post
"Kasit: Thaksin interview offensive
Published: 9/11/2009 at 04:18 PM
Online news: Breakingnews

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra made very offensive references to the monarchy in an interview with The Times published online today and gave inaccurate, misleading information, Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya said on Monday.

Thaksin was interviewed by the Asia editor of The Times, Richard Parry, at his home in Dubai and the transcript was published on the Timesonline website on Nov 9.

The foreign minister said he found many of Thaksin's comments in the interview to be strongly offensive, inaccurate and unacceptable by the majority of people.

The interview reflected Thaksin's uneasiness about not being able to persuade people to be on his side, Mr Kasit said. He believed Thaksin, in giving the interview, had a hidden objective.

The Foreign Ministry would issue a statement to the foreign media setting the facts straight, he said.

The Justoice Ministry would decide whether Thaksin would be charged with lese majeste, Mr Kasit said.

Mr Kasit confirmed that the government would request Thaksin's extradition if he visits Cambodia this week, as announced, Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen would be asked to think the matter over very carefully before rejecting the request - as he has said he would."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/159561/kasit-thaksin-interview-offends-monarchy

pls google times onlines and read all the transcript the interview between Richard Parry and thaksin in details.
comment 10
peacefulness date : 09/11/2009 time : 16.57
nationmultimedia.com

just fyi khun stalingrad......

flwg from bkk/post sms

"kasit piromya says thaksin's interview with published on "times on lines offensive to the monarchy. "

i hv read the interview , pls google by yourself for details. tks
comment 9
massein date : 09/11/2009 time : 15.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

lets see 100 generals for each combat Battalion, are is it
1 General for ea plt.
comment 8
Plaadip date : 09/11/2009 time : 15.30

Hun Sen challenges Abhisit to dissolve House: report

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/30116168/Hun-Sen-challenges-Abhisit-to-dissolve-House-repor

Why is Hun Sen giving to Abhist a good reason NOT to disslove the parliament? I think as far as Hun Sen is doing this, the anger of the poeple to the "failure" (the failure to take Thkasin back, for instance, of course Abhist will fail) would go toward Hun Sen and Thaksin more than the government, I guess.
comment 7
massein date : 09/11/2009 time : 12.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

Ian is correct though, The Thai Arm forces have never face
stiff opposition as for as I know. Any of those medals on the Generals chest for valor . If I'm wrong I ready to be corrected
comment 6
massein date : 09/11/2009 time : 12.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

I fine that strange that the Hun the tyrant would call for snap elections in Thailand where he would never allow transparent opposition elections in Cambodia. It the pot calling the kettle black
comment 5
Ian date : 09/11/2009 time : 12.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I am puzzled by the assumption that most writers are making that Thailand is militarily superior to Cambodia. Thailand may have more troops and more hardware, but the army has never fought a real war, the soldiers are not battle hardened.
To me the effectiveness of an army has always been inversely proportional to the number of generals, by this measure Thailand would be soundly defeated
comment 4
wch date : 09/11/2009 time : 10.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

Stal,
I remind you that Thailand violated international court verdit on prear vihar. Cambodia wanted to appeal to UN, but Thailand asked the issue to be left first between two.
This arbitration is running out now.
Cambodia is not short of wits to play. Certainly Cambodia will pull the case back to UN, and the intl court again.

Now Thaksin officially start his new formal assignment, adviser and attend 200 strong officials seminar as if say " So What?, dear Thais ?"

PAD or the Red, why don't they gather a demonstration in front of Thaksin venue? in Phnom Pen ? or,

Obama, in next week will clear where he likes to keep his troop in ASEAN.
I think US will settle in Vietnam's or in Singapore, and French-led EU force in Cambodia.
comment 3
stalingrad date : 09/11/2009 time : 10.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Besides, the US now has the option of a mobile floating base, given its technology, as shown in its military operations in the Middle East. It has solved partly the problem of its undesired dependence on the whims of a foreign host country. But there is a limit to this option, for sure. For now however the US oil interests you mention can be protected by an in-and-out strategy, if comes to a minor military clash. It's an updated model of gunboat diplomacy, if you like.
comment 2
stalingrad date : 09/11/2009 time : 10.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

No, wch, I am certain that is not the Thai strategy. No use. I meant to respond to your other detailed points on this theme. But later. For now I don't think the Americans will want to invest in a base in Kampuchea, as long as Hun Sen is in power. But in the long run, maybe they would be interested as Kampuchea is easier to control and influence compared to Thailand and Vietnam. Certainnly if China shifts to aggressive stance, threatening SE Asia, then given the new multipolar power configuration, it'll be a joint Japan-US and maybe Singapore, Australia too that might form a military presence in Kampuchea. But we're talking medium or long term, as China shows no inclination in that direction now. Kampuchea certainly welcomes Western presence as its traditional strategy is to use others (including UN organs such as UNESCO which has a sort of moral force) to balance the power of traditional enemies such as Vietnam and Thailand.
comment 1
wch date : 09/11/2009 time : 10.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

I believe Hun Sen has a winning trick if Thailand invade them.

The gas flatforms, 80 plus of Thai that floats scattered in the gulf.

If they destroy merely 3 units, the gulf will go instantly dead and it is any one guess what will happen to Thai economy.

They will do same for just Unocal well to pull in US 7th fleet.
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