• stalingrad
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Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad
Wednesday , September 16 , 2009
The postponement of the voting of new police chief
Posted by stalingrad , Reader : 558 , 21:03:23  
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In the selection of the new Police Bureau head, why did (do) Suthep and Nipon back Jumpol, thereby going against Apisit ?

 

Why did (and will) the Interior Minister Chavarat insist on voting for Jumpol?

 

You tell me. Journalists have not reported the answers to these 2 questions, which I am sure was asked. If you don’t want to answer these questions, then tell me the motives of the others who are not in the police force but voted for Jumpol.

 

Another question: Is Gen. Pateep likely to get the position?

 

My view is that the appointment issue has been blown out of proportion, and the media has framed it as a loss of face or lack of leadership quality of Apisit if he can’t get his way. 

 

I don’t see it as victory or defeat. That’s a juvenile way of looking at it. It’s more a trashing out between different interests and coming to a conclusion most beneficial to the nation. And to have many rounds is normal, even desirable, in a contested situation.

 

If Jumpol is voted in, it just means that the Police committee wants Jumpol and that’s it. It’s a matter of different judgment, based on opposite interests, which is normal in an organization.  Look at meetings of boards of directors, sometimes they argue until blue in the face, several times.

 

If it doesn’t swing his way, Apisit can find ways to work with what he’s got and he can get back at them later in his own time. This is also a normal situation in management politics.  If Jumpol is found later to be bent, subversive, or does things he shouldn’t be doing, then there are ways to deal with this. No one, except schoolchildren, is going to accuse Apisit of weakness of character, because everybody knows the real situation behind the voting, the entrenched opposition, the balance of forces etc. (see Piset’s blog for some ideas, which one does not have to agree with). If Jumpol does not his duty well, if he walks off the straight and narrow, the committee members that voted him in will bear responsibility for displaying bad judgment, and probably be pressured to resign, or even dismissed (as they should). Then, Apisit can strike, and strike hard (that is, if he’s still around as PM).

 

So I still see it as a win win for him, in the end.

 

But it’s the media that loves to report the affair in terms of a fight because it sells. But they don’t have the guts--or the interest-- to elaborate on the motives behind the players.

 

The postponement is one tactic, before the final meet, which should be sooner than later, as these things shouldn’t drag on.  Or maybe it’s OK to drag on. To procrastinate can be a strategy, while certain developments develop.


Read comment

comment 24
notdisappointed date : 20/09/2009 time : 20.17


Hi Ean, I stand by my c22. Amending or revocation of the LM laaw is not the starting point for change. I have expounded as much on erik's and maxwell's blogs to not want to re-post them here. OK?
comment 23
Ian date : 20/09/2009 time : 10.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, 22. " it's just a prelude to a full frontal attack against our Thai King". I disagree, the current status of the monarch means that he cannot defend himself and so needs the LM law's protection. This is treating the symptoms not the disease.
In any monarchist country there will be anti monarchy elements in society. When suppressed they turn subversive, if not suppressed they lead to mature debate.
We have seen the role of my queen debated in Britain, Canada and Australia, it remains unchanged, indeed in some instances strengthened.
Did the people who wrote this law and the people who now enforce it, judge your King to be so unpopular as to need Laws to suppress discussion about Him? i would suggest the opposite is the case and that the LM law is actually an insult to your King. The LM laws are designed to enforce respect, rather than allow it to be seen to be given freely, and willingly, by his people.
comment 22
notdisappointed date : 19/09/2009 time : 19.09


OK Ean, This is my take on evolution.

Evolution is an imperfect and often violent process. A battle between what exists and what's yet to be born. And in the midst these birth pains, morality loses its meaning. The question of good and evil reduced to one simple choice; survive or perish.

I don't subscribe to yours' and your group's path towards change, which in maxwell's blog need be explosive, or in hermione's many blogs to be demeaning and denigrating without propriety and values. All you wish for is a revocation of the LM law as the predication towards change.

But as can be seen by the many subtle comments and insinuations by pj, hermione, fq and others it's just a prelude to a full frontal attack against our Thai King. And those attacks against Amart is just a feign to distract people from the true goal of reducing or doing away with the Royal privileges of my King.

I just don't trust the moral standards and integrity of your friends and those of the leadership (they who are just nominees of thaksin) of the reds and of the reds themselves who are still associated with thaksin and his self-serving motives. The reds are not a viable voice for the disaffected as long as they are still supported, led, financed and organized for thaksin.
comment 21
Ian date : 19/09/2009 time : 09.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Nd, 20. Let us look at this word evolution, if we accept that evolution is a species response to drastic environmental changes, then what do we see in Thailand.
One obvious one is the global economic collapse, this is mainly affecting the poor.
Another is sadly the end of a reign, this mainly affects the elite.
Factors like corruption, vote buying, scams, can be ignored they are part of the existing environment, it is just the two which I have mentioned which are new.
Are these two factors enough to trigger an evolutionary change? Both are clearly creating turbulence and political instability. Can Thailand adapt or will it face extinction like other species that could not adapt? If it adapts what form will this new Thailand take?
As has been pointed out many times, I am merely a spectator, you belong to the Thai species, what do you think?
comment 20
notdisappointed date : 18/09/2009 time : 22.51


Ean, my friend, in my other comments I talk about change to the social and political structure and not evolution or revolution.

Here pragmatism is the best way to sadly get my opinions across.

I see no reason to make a public annoucement nor do I see it as being antithetical to my views on that certain law, your hobby horse.

Let it go it doesn't make that much of a difference. Only that morality has lost some of its lustre.
comment 19
Ian date : 18/09/2009 time : 22.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I see ND has learnt to use my code
"Let's just say that there is a 'virus' involved and that only an antibody of the same 'blood type' can cure the 'virus'. "
He also knows why such code is needed, strange that he should argue otherwise elsewhere.

Dal, once again I find myself in total agreement with your comment.
comment 18
notdisappointed date : 18/09/2009 time : 22.12


Dal c16, I agree 100% with your comments. But as our farang friends say - TIT. And because TIT there are other factors that have come into play.

And as I said it saddens me that this is the case with regard to the appointment of the new police chief.

Let's just say that there is a 'virus' involved and that only an antibody of the same 'blood type' can cure the 'virus'.

So as Stal says no matter if the outcome goes against AV, he will not lose face. He will have just learnt the fact of life TIT and that morality and integrity does not confer ability to do what is right and proper.
comment 17
stalingrad date : 18/09/2009 time : 18.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Ian: well, both. And gut instinct based on a host of factors.

Dalmasion: I can agree with that, but how are you going answer ND’s assertion that Apisit is up against “larger” forces, whatever that means.
comment 16
Dalmasian date : 18/09/2009 time : 14.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dalmasian

When the person who has authority (and have the final say) to appoint the new Police Chief does not exercise that authority in a manner consistent with good governance and the highest moral standards by choosing the best candidate for the job, but instead defers the decision to a group that consists of members who are by and large embodied with doubtful character and qualifications, and who are plagued with self-interest and have considerable conflict of interest in the matter, then that person basically is not a good leader and is unfit to do his job as the head of the government.

There are limits to the "democratic process" and I simply cannot see "democracy" being practised in a process like the appointment of the national police chief. Imagine a corporation that is being "managed democratically." It will never work. Someone has to lead and make the important decisions, all the way from the top to the first line supervisors. That's what they are being paid the big bucks for!

-- Dalmasian
comment 15
notdisappointed date : 18/09/2009 time : 13.38


Stal, Let me put it to you this way. AV has gotten in over his head. It larger than Suthep/Nipon/Chaovarat/BJT; it's even has nothing to do with Democrats in-fightting or fighting between coalition parties.

This is not about a question of leadership on his part but a question of his willing to give up on this appointment morally.

He will survive because this appointment has nothing to do with politics. Only a non-political remedy can be found.

I am saddened to say that AV's morality has gone against something much bigger than politics - nuff said!
comment 14
Ian date : 18/09/2009 time : 08.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Stal, 11. Do you not think that this comment should start with the words "In my opinion", or do you have facts to back this statement up?
comment 13
dryshrimp date : 18/09/2009 time : 00.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dryshrimp

I agree with you, Khun Stalingrad.
comment 12
Plaadip date : 17/09/2009 time : 22.19

Stalinglad, I hope so. I don't want see it again, neither do most of Thais, I think.
comment 11
stalingrad date : 17/09/2009 time : 22.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Plaadip: Don't worry so much. Everything is under control.The armed forces are cool.

Nothing mortals can do now, but to let things happen, as it must, in order to come to a rest in this round. It'll be OK, even for the rank and file red shirts.
comment 10
Plaadip date : 17/09/2009 time : 21.59

I mean,Police force will have to do a very difficult job, if a riot erupts after the NCCC commission's dedicison on the police chrack down on PAD. If Aphisit looks not in control, highly politicised Thai police force will be at a loss, because they have no clue as to which way the wind is blowing. They may be sitting on their hands as they did last April. If the red rally is not a big thing, I think that the selection of the new police chief is not so important.
comment 9
Plaadip date : 17/09/2009 time : 21.47

I think that the real issue is what kind of signal this delay would give to the police force who will must conatain violent situation, if something should happen on 19 Sep. If they think that the PM is not in control. what they are going to do? Are they willing to take a risk?
comment 8
stalingrad date : 17/09/2009 time : 21.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

Bee: yes, will know soon. These things can't be kept secret, really. Best was the decision to put it on the back burner and keep those jarheads guessing and tense.

Yabua: Well, I have some faith in younger people with energy and intelligence to lead, rather than politicians of the old school.

wch: yes, agreed with last para. In fact, word has it that Apisit could have voted and won in this meet but this will create a problem of a different kind, especially with the 19th demo coming up, so it's good judgement to procrastinate, play for time, for a while. Then come up with a solution that's sustainable.
comment 7
bzzzzzBee date : 17/09/2009 time : 19.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/beehive

stal ... i was told that Abhisit was the one who intentionally stalled the appointment ... can't get a confirmation ... perhaps you can assist with your connections ... i was made to understand by friends of friends of inner circle that the appointment (not his choice) would be confirmed upon his return from NY .... apparently the stalling was to pre-empt a possible non-action from the new Police Chief during the Reds rally and also to pre-empt any thoughts of a coup should the Yellows and Reds clash over the weekend.

I am inclined to believe that present political and social situations would remain status quo until a new election is called and we go through the motions yet again.... but with so much speculations and conspiracy theories out there ... what can i believe?
comment 6
yabua date : 17/09/2009 time : 16.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yabua

Stal, I like your firm stand point and optimism.
comment 5
SARDINES date : 17/09/2009 time : 16.07

... well whatever the pm is going to do, he better get around to doing it fast. I don't think he would like the alternative option...

quote:
"a Deputy Police Chief and Secretary General of the Police Commission, who states that if after September 30 no one has been appointed Police Chief then according to Police Regulations, the Police Chief automatically becomes the most senior Deputy Police Chief, who is Priewphan (who is the elder brother of Thaksin's ex-wife)"
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1253068625&grpid=00&catid=
comment 4
wch date : 17/09/2009 time : 09.24
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

In the last January when AV took office, I wrote here, PM is one who establish only 5 targets and assign his man for each one target.
Give them enough time to implement it and if success, prize him, if failed, punish him.

pm AV assigned the security business to Suthep, then let him work whatsoever he delivers, including appointment of new police chief.
If he had left things to Suthep, no problem happened. PM does not need to worry about future problem that has not occured yet.
It is wrong if he thinks appointing Jumpol as chief will bring big problem. If problem happens, he will have good excuse to punish Suthep, and automatically he can easily cull the chicken polices.

This is the mastery of a wise politician.
comment 3
wch date : 17/09/2009 time : 08.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

stal.

Premiership is to rule people, not to enforce his policy to be realized nor to side own befief.
'Behave like water' is a rule to be good ruler in the northerner's thought.
Water changes in the container shape.

As to this specific case of appointing police chief, it is enough for PM to achieve his goal, 'letting them know real story of police'.
so he can leave them to decide on appointment, no matter who he will be Pateep or Jumpol.

Although Jumpol is appointed against PM's will, it does not matter (as he said 'mai pen rai').
Jumpol will not be able to serve his post against PM's policy nor can he serve his portectors for their private intesests from now on because the general public keep vigilant. Here there is a role for media.

By showing the people the decision was made on ballot instead PM's thrust, people will learn more. That is a sort of democratic decision making manner while PM yield his proper right (to appoint police chief). Also this is a sort of reconciliation among divided people and good example to demontrate the balanced attitude of PM himself, the difference from Thaksin's impulsive personality.
comment 2
stalingrad date : 17/09/2009 time : 06.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

wch: I like your analysis. Yes, I was thinking along these lines. BTW, are you able to read Thai?

The thing is the Thai press are scared to do a probing analysis, for fear of being sued etc. So people are left wondering and in the dark.

But you have to admit, Gen Pateep is not a very talkative figure, and is a question mark to many people.
comment 1
wch date : 17/09/2009 time : 04.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

In Thailand, Patronage system is the rule. This rule applies to every organization.

pmAv , before making his choice of Pateep, had checked various interest group including PAD, RED, military and other senior phuyais.
In fact Pateep is regarded neutral person who did not join the patronage system and a straight policeman. Also he is a moderate personality little different from former Seripisut.

Jumpon had the personal affiliation to Thaksin and he provided him personal intelligence service, who mainly dug personal informations of Thaksin's opponents. He is equally keeping patronage faith with Suthep's and Newin group.

In fact, those who choose Jumpol are to think not they badly needed Jumpol but they are deadly scared of Pateep. If Pateep is chosen, he will work closely with all judicial branches including the prosecution agency. Now the chief of prosecution works by laws as PM wish, all those no-voters are not safe in their pending cases.
The Sinothai owner, Chavarat Chanvirakul is not exception in past corruption cases of his firms. His son is regarded as anti-Prem logheader as well.
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