• Poomjai
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FRT - Farang Rak Thai
Humdrum musings on life in Thailand
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/poomjai
Saturday , February 23 , 2008
Helping farangs to speak better Thai
Posted by Poomjai , Reader : 4228 , 18:20:53  
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Have you noticed that some farang struggle to pronounce Thai words well?  Or are you a farang who has struggled to read from a menu in Thailand written in Roman script? 

“Last week I went to Suvarnaboomee Airport on my way to Fooket and Coe Samui for a weekend drinking Singer Beer.”

Some of my Thai friends call it karaoke Thai.  You know, every time you go to a karaoke bar and are about to launch into a Bird or Palapon classic, an array of Romanized words will stream across the bottom of the TV screen to aid the non-Thai reader?  Trouble is that trying to pronounce Thai words from Karaoke Thai is pretty difficult. 

Please understand na!  It is not because we farang are stupid.  Just that Thai characters and sounds don’t correspond precisely to the sounds made in Roman languages.  For example, Thai has some sounds which Roman languages don’t, such as por-plaa and tor-tao.

Well spoken Thai sounds really nice and melodious to the ear.  So I have a number of suggestions on how English speaking farang can improve upon their pronunciation of Thai words that are written in Roman script.

If it is spelled with TH pronounce it T

The Thai characters which express the sound "t" (thor-thahaan, thor-theung, thor-thong etc.) are normally written as "th" in Roman script. This results in many farangs pronouncing the sound "th" as in "the", "that", "them" etc. which is incorrect.

Phrase

Karaoke pronunciation

Actual pronunciation

Ja pai thiaw nai? Where are you going on holiday?

Ja pai theo nai?

Ja pai tiaw nai?

If it is spelled with a K pronounce it G 

The Thai character which expresses the sound “g” at the start of words (from kor-kai) will be written as “k” in Roman script.

Word

Karaoke pronunciation

Actual pronunciation

Koh Samui

Coe Samui

Goh Samui

When pronouncing the word “Goh” which means Island, the “o” sound should be soft as in “hot” or “pot” rather than hard, as in “hole” or “Coke”.

Do you prefer your vowels long or short?

Most Thai words written in Roman script do not distinguish between short and long vowels (Mai han akard and sala-aa; sala-ooh and sala-oo etc.) meaning that farang often default to the short vowel sounds such as “a”, “u” or “I” without using for example “aa”, “ar” and “oo”.

Word

Karaoke pronunciation

Actual pronunciation

Sathorn Road

Sathorn Road

Sartorn Road

Watch the extra R

Some Thai words conjoin the consonants “s” (sor-seua, sor-saalaa etc.) and “r” (ror-reua) to produce a single “s” sound.  But when the words are translated into English they will still be spelled with “sr”, causing confusion for us poor farangs.

Word

Karaoke pronunciation

Actual pronunciation

Sri Ayuthaya Road

Sree Ayuthaya Road

See

Ayuthaya Road

Help us with old spellings please

Some names, based on old Thai spellings, will include consonants and vowels at the end which are spelled in the Romanized version of the word but are not actually pronounced.

Word

Karaoke pronunciation

Actual pronunciation

Surawongse

Surawongsee

Surawong

Singha Beer

Singer Beer

Beer Sing

Shinawatra

Shinawatraa

Chinawat

Surasakdi

Surasakdee

Surasak

If it is spelled V pronounce it W.

The Thai character expressing the sound “w” (wor wen) will often be written as “v” in Roman script.

Word

Karaoke pronunciation

Actual pronunciation

Suvarnabhumi

Suvarnaboomee

Suwanapoom

And if it is spelled Ph pronounce if F

Back to that old favourite, Phuket. The Thai character which expresses a soft “p” sound (por-peung, por-paan etc) will normally be written as ‘ph’ in Roman script.  However, to most farangs, this will produce the sound ‘f’.

Word

Karaoke pronunciation

Actual pronunciation

Phuket

Fooket

Poo-get

I will save the complexities of tones, tor-tao and por-plaa for another blog. Puad hua laew!

Please also see my related blog on the usefulness of learning to read Thai: http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/poomjai/2007/11/18/entry-1

Chork dee na khrap.

 

 

 

 


Read comment

comment 35
Lalida date : 29/02/2008 time : 19.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

How about doing it this way, take this as a learning Blog, you want to write Thai, write it in Thai script, not karaoke Thai. A basic in learning...sounds fun? The accurate way.....yeh or nei ? Is that what they say in English Parliment?
comment 34
GGrass date : 29/02/2008 time : 16.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

Another one,

Buem Rod Or Bor Ttor. Fai Tuam

Translates to

A car belonging to local government administration office was blown up and went up in flames, as a result of local dispute over who's in control.
comment 33
GGrass date : 29/02/2008 time : 16.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

The best way to learn to read Thai: Thai Rath Newspaper, Front page. (Not recommended for anyone with weak stomach.)

Once you get the hang of it, you can get the whole story with just one or two lines.

For example, today's Thai Rath, front page, there's two liner which reads,

Ka hod sao seven,
syong klang toong na.

Translates to,

A girl working as cashier at local 7-11 was brutally killed and her body was dumped in the middle of a grass field.
comment 32
Poomjai date : 28/02/2008 time : 22.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/poomjai

Pet,

OK mate. Peace.
comment 31
pet date : 28/02/2008 time : 21.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/triplebs

PJ,

I do speak, read and write Thai very fluently. And still don't see your point of refering karaoke pronunciation to help farang learn better Thai.

I can't accept your proposal to the agreement as well. Because ultimately, the best way of learning Thai is to be able to speak, read and write, the Thai way. Just like Thai learning English, French, German and many other languages.

Sorry mate, we may not agree on this, but we can still be friend who share the same interest in joining this blog space, see you around.
comment 30
Poomjai date : 28/02/2008 time : 17.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/poomjai

Pet,

I do read Thai and I still don't know what you are talking about. But let's agree between us that ultimately the best way to learn Thai is to be able to learn how to read Thai shall we?

GG,

You are so funny!
comment 29
pet date : 28/02/2008 time : 14.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/triplebs

PJ,
Umm...to be quite honest I am not sure myself how and where those hundreds of unique, strange and/or unrelated sounds come from. It can be from the North, South, East, West, from Isan, or you know... just from everywhere. I think you need to study more Thai so you know what I am talking about. I am not an expert really and I do need to learn more myself.
comment 28
GGrass date : 28/02/2008 time : 10.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

For men singer: Ho-tten Kalifornia.

For women singer: I wiew serwiwe.
comment 27
naive date : 27/02/2008 time : 23.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/naive
Narrow and wide by "Naive" point of view. ...................................*v*....................................................................For Thai reader visit http://www.oknation.net/blog/wickedgirl

PoomJai,

Don't worry about those busy letters and accessories (i call the vowels that way) Just try to listen the different btw each word.. Watch Thai Soap Everyday you will get to understand (and addicted!) My german colleage did and have a fluent non-sense conversation everyday!
comment 26
Poomjai date : 27/02/2008 time : 23.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/poomjai

Pet,

Thanks.

I think that we agree perhaps more than you acknowledge.

One point I would make though, Thai has 44 consonants and 21 vowel sounds - many of which correspond to sounds make in European languages. So I am not sure how you derive your comment about hundreds or thousands of unrelated sounds, to be honest.
comment 25
pet date : 27/02/2008 time : 20.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/triplebs

Lalida...thanks for trying
comment 24
pet date : 27/02/2008 time : 20.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/triplebs

Many thanks PJ,
In my opinion, the core of learning Thai is that the basis of the language is not European-based whereas most English and other Euro languages have Latin, Greek, Viking, German, French etc roots, but Thai does not. Hence learning Thai you have to memorize hundreds, if not thousands, of unique, strange and/or unrelated sounds.

It is difficult but not impossible for farang to speak a decent Thai pronunciation. The key is to visually study the Thai alphabets, learn the sound, the vowels, the grammar and everything else that is essential. Then you have to memorise how to speak it out and keep repeating it. This is in fact how children learn, they see the words, hear the words spoken by adults and other children and repeat them. Young children learn to speak a language well before they can read.

You can also pick up some bad spelling and miss pronounced words from everywhere and that's why I think the "karaoke pronunciation" is irrelevant. It shouldn't be mentioned at the first place. But again, that's only my opinion.
comment 23
Lalida date : 27/02/2008 time : 14.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Pet,

I presume you speak and read Thai as well or you're a Thai. I don't know but have you been to a Sound Track movie of Foreign film? The translator seems to write the sub's the way he understood but not what the actor in the movie is saying...
comment 22
Lalida date : 27/02/2008 time : 14.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Pet,

I think what PJ's trying to say, Karaoke Thai is a short cut and basic for falang who wish to learn a bit of Thai if just staying a short period of time, for the real learning, you have to learn from the Basic.
Thai Script.....
comment 21
sv date : 27/02/2008 time : 07.16

Talk about karaoke, I once asked a girl if she wanted to sing a song. In Thai I asked "Nong SING ror pow"? You should have seen the look on her face. Obviously, she didn't want to sing anymore...
comment 20
Gylenthal date : 27/02/2008 time : 04.19

Did you ever listen to a Thai group or a Thai "garaoge" singer performing the 101st version of "Hoten Kanlifonnia"?

Now, that's hilarious.

BTW, almost every foreigner coming to Thailand is eager to learn the Thai language. But apart from 1 or 2 (private) schools in Bangkok they have no opportunity to learn proper Thai. I live upcountry and haven't found any school where I could learn the Thai language. Such schools would be a benefit for the Thais who didn't had the oportunity to go to school as well.

Like many said before me, listening to Thai karaoke CD's and Thai drama is the only way for us to learn to speak basic Thai.
comment 19
Poomjai date : 26/02/2008 time : 22.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/poomjai

Pet,

I am sorry for any confusion but I think you may have misunderstood, slightly.

The conventional way of Romanizing Thai words leads to karaoke style pronuciation, which to the ear is clearly incorrect. But implication therefore, the way Thai words are Romanized is also therefore incorrect.

So when you read the tables above, you can see the first column shows you how a Thai word or phrase is Romanized. The second shows you how most farang will interpret the pronunciation of this word phonetically. And the third column shows you a better way to Romanize the same word to lead to a more accurate pronunciation.

As I mentioned before I am not recommending karaoke pronunciation at all. Clearly, pronouncing 'G' sounds as 'K' or "T" sounds as "TH" is bound to lead to confusion.

As I also said, by far the best way to learn Thai is to read from Thai script. Most farangs who come to Thailand, however, won't have an opportunity to do this as they will by and large be here for a very short period of time.

So my recommendations might come in helpful to them, although I recognise that they are not perfect.
comment 18
pet date : 26/02/2008 time : 19.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/triplebs

Well...what's the significant of putting karaoke pronunciation in your comparison table for study then? I mean ... learning very complex language like Thai by adding more confusion on karaoke pronunciation that's not recommended instead of going the direct way and say...this is how how it spell and this is how you pronounce it. I think it's less confuse and straight forward. Unless it is the English way of learning Thai? or maybe I just don't get it.
GG: ha ha ha that's so hilarious
comment 17
Poomjai date : 26/02/2008 time : 17.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/poomjai

Pet,

I am actually suggesting the opposite - that Karaoke Thai as a general rule is a pretty poor guide to learning Thai. The best way is to learn from basics and read from Thai script. But if you don't have time to learn that then being able to pronounce words properly that are spelled in Roman script is a good start.

GG,

LOL!
comment 16
GGrass date : 26/02/2008 time : 14.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

pet: who can forget? the famous 'Harvey' scene, where Matt Dilon jumps onto the hood of his racing car and says, 'My Fans!' in front of tens of screaming fans, and the Thai subtitle below says,

'Pad Lom Kong Chan'


comment 15
GGrass date : 26/02/2008 time : 14.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

PJ: hahahahahaha
comment 14
pet date : 25/02/2008 time : 20.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/triplebs

Just wondering PJ, are you suggesting karaoke pronunciation good enough to be a manual for farangs to study Thai? have you ever come across poor produce pirate copies? cd tuen na?
comment 13
Poomjai date : 25/02/2008 time : 16.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/poomjai

GG,

I think your suggestions for por-plaa and tor-tao are good ones. Alternatives might be Bp for por-plaa and Dt for tor-tao.

I think that "g" is definitely the best bet for kor kai though. And I think thathaving multiple "k"s could start to get confusing - kor-kai, kkor -kkuat, kkkor-kkkwai, kkkkor-kkkkon, kkkkkor-rakkkkkang. Puad hua eek laew!
comment 12
GGrass date : 25/02/2008 time : 08.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

PJ: my little suggestion...

I think por pla and tor tao should be pp or tt.

ppor ppla and ttor ttao.

i know there's no such thing, 'double P' sound, but I think it helps.

sor sua and ssor sso (chain), and k and kk for kwai and kkai.

if you wrote 'kai', is it a chicken or is it an egg? not sure huh...

but if you saw 'kkai', is it a chicken or is it an egg? Definitely a chicken...
comment 11
Poomjai date : 25/02/2008 time : 01.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/poomjai

Narc,

You are quite right and I have amended the blog accordingly.
comment 10
naive date : 24/02/2008 time : 20.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/naive
Narrow and wide by "Naive" point of view. ...................................*v*....................................................................For Thai reader visit http://www.oknation.net/blog/wickedgirl

There're a Thai school in Amarin Plaza 2nd or 3rd
floor if someone really want to learn the correct
way.. and actually if you notice the song and remember the song.. the key in the song is already
the correct key already... practice to sing easy song many times you may understand more.
comment 9
Lalida date : 24/02/2008 time : 19.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Sorry PJ, forget my typing just read
comment 8
Lalida date : 24/02/2008 time : 19.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

PJ,

Since I came in already, so I jusr add a few word. If you have different version of VCD Thai Karaokes, you will find the spelling od karaoke Thai in (English (Roman) format) are different from one and another. Probably this is the confusion in pronunciation for those who wish to learn Thai. I think it's best they learn the basic Thai Alphabet first of Thai writings with Vowels then probably they can pick it up more easily. Frankly, I couldn't figure out with karaoke Thai spelling is correct...
comment 7
Lalida date : 24/02/2008 time : 18.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

sorry can't stop.....
comment 6
narcisuss date : 24/02/2008 time : 17.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/narcisuss
I  come in peace :)

haha Lalida, I've heard all sorts of variations..

There's a story on campus about one guy that went to family mart and asked for something..
The person behind the counter said 'sak kroo na krub' or something.. Then the farang said 'Screw you too!'.
Probably just a joke though.
comment 5
Lalida date : 24/02/2008 time : 15.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Nar,

you mean "pee cup, core Bear Sing cup"....
comment 4
narcisuss date : 24/02/2008 time : 11.24
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/narcisuss
I  come in peace :)

my friends at university like to mock american sounding farangs.
'Pee crap, core beer Sing crap'
comment 3
narcisuss date : 24/02/2008 time : 11.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/narcisuss
I  come in peace :)

You say that K should be pronounced as G. But if Gor Gai appears at the end of a word it is pronounced as soft K. chai mai? :-)

Nice and understandable blog btw.
comment 2
Poomjai date : 24/02/2008 time : 03.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/poomjai

Pan,

Thanks - I must admit that I am a big fan of learning by singing Thai karaoke songs (although my voice is quite terrible)!

And yes I enjoy Thai lakorn as well. My favourite series last year was Ruen Rak Ruen Tart - I really enjoy any form of period drama.
comment 1
panalwayscute date : 24/02/2008 time : 00.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/panalwayscute

cute and informative. When i first came back to Thailand 19 years ago, i was also a farang to Thai language as well, and since i had no time to take extra Thai classes, i was the joke amongst my thai friends at the University. But the key to help master the language is really tru Thai karoke and Thai drama after news at 8.30pm! You can actually understand the "sound" better eventhough you don't know what the show is about, but it does help. It worked for me and i hope all farangs will find this helpful too!
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