• krajog
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The purpose is to publish my viewpoints on Thai politics, social traditions and other topics. Anyone can make comments to agree or disagree with my viewpoints.
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard
Monday , October 26 , 2009
Should Thailand exercise its démarche against Hun Sen’s diplomatic faux pas at 15th Asean Summit venue in Cha-Am?
Posted by krajog , Reader : 1132 , 13:33:03  
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     Top left :  A portrait of Aung San Suu Kyi (pronounced Ong San Soo Chee) Top right: At her house durng the house arrest Above:  Suu Kyi is addressing her supporter in the 1990 election in which her party, National League for Democracy (NLD) won with a landslide at 82% of seats in the parliament Suu Kyi joined NLD as secretary-general of NLD

The scene of Hun Sen giving immediate interview to the media corps right upon his arrival as the last man to arrive in the evening at the 15th Asian Summit venue in Cha-Am last Friday was something Thai people who are REAL Thais in their hearts should keep in mind forever.

He has bluffed Thailand by saying that he will give the ex-premier, who is now a fugitive convict for a crime of corruption living a billionaire life in Dubai and other places, permission to reside in Phnom Penh and appoint the guy as his adviser. It’s a slap in the face of Thai PM Abhisit Vejjajiva and a kind of political ploy against Thailand as if this country means nothing to him. Diplomatically, as a leader of a neighbouring country attending an Asean Summit, it can be viewed as a challenge as well as an insult and ungrateful attitude. Cambodia is a country, to which Thailand has given economic assistance in many forms including donations made by Thailand’s royal family.

Hun Sen has trodden Thailand’s honour like graves in a barrel. He looks at this country as if having nothing deserving his respect at all by saying that the guy is his eternal friend and Cambodia is an independent country and the fugitive convict has been unfairly treated by Thailand’s judicial system. He said so clearly that the guy is not a criminal but a political victim. His comment for the media corps was purely an interference of Thailand's internal affairs. He compared the guy with the famed Burmese Nobel laureate Aung San Suu Kyi as tough fighter for democracy. It’s the best Joke we ever heard from the mouth of Hun Sen.

Hun Sen might have thought his comparison between Suu Kyi and TS was to praise his “eternal friend” to the same status with the world’s recognized champion of democracy. But, in fact, it’s an insult to Burmese people and the famed Nobel Laureate for peace. Some Thai newspapers interpreted the comparison as seeing a dirty strayed dog with leprosy-like skin disease in the same light as with an angelic grande dame of democracy. A pretty accurate interpretation, isn’t it?

I found an article on Suu Kyi in the Famous People website and inserted part of it here below.

Suu Kyi in Politics
In 1988, Suu Kyi returned to Myanmar to nurse her ailing mother and plunged into the nationwide uprising for the establishment of democracy. It all happened following the resignation of General Ne Win on July 23, 1988. Suu Kyi, in an open letter to the military government asked to establish a rule of the people in Myanmar. On 8 August, 1988, people, raising pro-democracy slogans assembled at the prominent places of the capital. The event led to a mass slaughter carried out by the ruling junta against the uprising throughout country. The military regime killed over 10,000 demonstrators, including students, women, and children – in a span of months.

 
In September 1988, Aung San Suu Kyi, in her first political move, joined the National League for Democracy as its secretary-general. The party was pushing for political reforms in the country. Suu Kyi gave numerous speeches calling for freedom and democracy. On July 20, 1989 Aung San Suu Kyi was placed under house arrest in the city of Rangoon. The same year, her mother, Daw Khin, after a prolonged, illness passed away.
 
Unable to maintain its grip on power, even during her detention, the “junta” was forced to call for a general election in 1990. Despite being held under house arrest, the NLD went on to win a staggering 82% of the seats in parliament. But, the junta regime refused to recognise the results. After six years of arrest and confinement Suu Kyi was released in July 1995. The military always offered her to leave the country and settle abroad but Suu Kyi rejected.
 
Suu Kyi’s Release and Re-detention
After her release Suu Kyi continued the struggle for democracy in Myanmar. This increased her popularity across the world and international political powers were compelled to intervene to resolve the issue. Though the western countries tried to put pressure on the ruling junta by curtailing economic aid, the neighboring countries continued to encourage the commerce. The military rulers increasingly restricted Suu Kyi's movements during 1996. She was also barred from traveling outside Rangoon and put under house arrest. In May 2002, Suu Kyi was released and the military government indicated that the release was unconditional and that Suu Kyi was free to pursue her political activities as leader of the NLD.
 
She was again arrested and placed behind bars in May 2003 after the Depayin massacre, during which up to 100 of her supporters were beaten to death by the regime's cronies. She moved from prison back into house arrest in late 2003 and has been held there ever since.
 
Thailand's position in international relation is now being threatened by her neighbour with a long on land borderline and into the sea on the eastern side of the Gulf of Thailand. I found an artcle on the website of Mahidol University about Thailand's international relations and insert some part of it below:

Thailand's statesmanship in international relations has always defied outsiders' predictions. Thai people have taken great pride in two facts: firstly, that Thailand is the only country in Southeast Asia never colonized or even dominated by other countries and secondly, that Thailand, once dubbed "the next domino to fall" in the 1960's and 1970's has emerged in the 1980's stronger and more prosperous than ever. The ability of the country to get out of harms' way can be attributed in large part to the flexible, dynamic, and pragmatic characteristics of its foreign policy, which has as being the model of a successful "small- nation diplomacy."

There exist at least two fundamental elements in the Thai foreign policy i.e. the preservation of national sovereignty and independence and the promotion of national well-being. In the process of decision making, Thai leaders have taken into account the country's resources and constraints as against evolving international circumstances. In order to understand the present Thai foreign policy, it seems appropriate to trace its evolution chronologically from the colonial era [19th century] to the present time.

1970's CHANGING REALITIES

The advent of the 1970's marked drastic changes in regional and global political configurations which brought about new challenges for Thailand's policy makers. On the international front, world politics was transformed from bipolarization toward multi-polarization with the return of China to the world arena and with Japan and Western Europe gradually resuming their political and economic roles.

On the regional place, the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam and the Nixon Doctrine created a vacuum of power as well as a sense of uncertainty and anxiety over U.S. defense commitments on mainland Southeast Asia. The communization of the three Indochinese states and the prediction of other falling dominoes represented a lurking danger to the security of free nations in the region, and to Thailand in particular.

To keep pace with the changing international environment, Thai foreign policy has undergone at least three basic developments, which have had long lasting effects today. First, it adopted an Omni-directional policy trend by seeking diplomatic, commercial, and cultural relations with all nations, regardless of their political ideology and economic system. Notably, in 1975 Bangkok and Beijing began full diplomatic recognition and exchanged ambassadors. Full diplomatic relations with the new state of Kampuchea were also established in that year, while relations with Vietnam were normalized in 1976.

Concurrently, Thailand has shown more interest in the developing world. In 1975, it began to develop its own aid program, called the Thai Aid Program [TAP]. Stemming from the "Third Country Training Program" [TCTP] in which Thailand offered technical training to developing countries under the sponsorship of outside donors, this program has provided training in various fields, particularly in agriculture, medicine, and public health, to at least 24 countries around the world.

Second, regionalism has come to play a more significant role in Thai foreign policy. At the first summit in Bali in 1976, ASEAN codified in contractual from the principle of pacific settlement of disputes among ASEAN members. Subsequently, the spirit of the Bali Summit further solidified political and economic cooperation among ASEAN states to the extent that ASEAN today can be called "a diplomatic revolution" in Southeast Asia. since then, ASEAN has expanded its joint activities to conjure new horizons, encompassing the fields of trade, tourism, industry, energy, science and technology, finance and banking, transportation, cultural and social development. Recent initiatives include import reduction among member countries and industrial complementation. These activities intertwine ASEAN'S interests and have given further impetus to development of the region.

Furthermore, ASEAN also expanded its cooperative relations with other developed countries. By 1976, ASEAN established cooperative links with Australia, Japan, Canada, New Zealand, and the agencies of the UN through the UNDP and ESCAP, followed by the United States in 1977, The links with the European Community and Canada were formalized through the signing of Cooperation Agreements in 1980 and 1981 respectively. The ASEAN foreign ministers meet annually with the foreign ministers of these dialogue partners and the Commissioner and the President of the EC Council of Ministers to discuss various international and regional issues of common interest and concern.

Third, Thailand has sought to promote even more its non-aligned foreign policy. With regard to its relations with major powers, it has sought to forge an "equidistant" policy, that is, a more equal relationship based on more balanced interests with all of them. The declaration of the concept of Southeast Asia as a Zone of Peace, Freedom, and Neutrality by ASEAN in 1973 is but one example of this. Flexible responses to the evolving international events are among other things that enable Thailand not only to be the domino that did not fall but also to be more stable, with a firmer foothold in the international community.

By the close of the decade, Thailand faced another serious challenge. The Vietnamese invasion of Kampuchea in 1978 and its occupation thereafter, followed by an armed confrontation between Vietnam and China, shattered the hope of regional peaceful coexistence. The Soviet involvement with Vietnam and its subsequent escalation of military presence in the Pacific further complicated the security equation of the region. The Kampuchean problem therefore presented a genuine potential for developing into a confrontation of major powers. In this regard, Thailand inadvertently became the front-line state in this conflict.

Aung San Suu Kyi has been put behind bars and into house arrest during the past 20 years but that convict guy escaped from Thailand since he asked for permission from the court to attend the Beijing Olympics in October last year by claiming that he was invited by China to be there to receive HRH Princess Sirindhorn. It turned out to be a big lie in his plot to jump bail and escaping from Thailand’s justice system, a foxy and cunning grand coup in bail jumping and avoiding of imprisonment the Thai courts have ever experienced. In the history of Thailand’s judicial system, perhaps, it’s a classic case of mistaken judgment of a faux-naïf, as a liable person, worthy of making it a case study in the jurisprudential studies.

This arrogant and ill-mannered Cambodian prime minister refers to the guy as his eternal friend, for whom he openly welcome into his care and protection. Two months ago he challenged the Thai army by saying that Cambodian soldiers are combat-smarter with fighting experiences to engage Thai soldiers with only one third of the Thai troops or a Cambodian soldier is enough to fight three Thai soldiers anytime. Amazingly, the Thai defence minister and army big brass kept their mouths shut becoming very cool cucumbers.

Deputy PM Suthep Thuegsuban, who is responsible for national security matters also downplayed the Cambodian verbal attacks on Thailand and did not have any idea of retorting back in strong terms. How long this country would continue to be like an underdog of arrogant ex-Khmer Rouge Cambodian prime minister?

According to the press reports, PM Abhisit acted in a mild-manner with soft words as he said that he had told Hun Sen to carefully think of his actions in favour of that fugitive convict as a political victim.

Hun Sen’s breach of good relationship between Thailand and Cambodia is a serious matter in terms of international relations. Thailand is now at a dilemma between diplomatic tit-for-tat and calm diplomatic maneuvering tactics.

Should Thailand execute its diplomatic démarche of some kind to show the world that Thailand’s is not a country without national pride and honour or stay calm for the sake of Asean unity?

Cambodia used to be a vassal state or a tributary of Ayutthaya Kingdom in the old days more than 400 years ago. The news of Cambodian rebellion led by King Chetta or Phya Lovek, (¾­ÒÅÐáÇ¡) who ruled Lovek, the new principal city in Cambodia at the time (about half way between Tonle Sap and Phnom Penh), reached Ayutthaya when King Naresuan the Great took over as the ruler from his father King Mahathammaraja.

King Naresuan himself led Ayutthayan armies to Cambodia. His commanders captured all main cities of Champasak, Banteymas and Siemriep. King Naresuan captured Battambang. The Siamese armies went to the meeting point at City of Lovek to subjugate Phya Lovek, the chief ruler of Cambodia. Being captured alive, Phya Lovek was decapitated as a traitor by King Naresuan himself who took Phya Lovek’s blood to pour on his feet. This was, in the old time, a symbolic gesture to warn other vassal states of the consequence of breaking the Oath of allegiance with Ayutthaya and a ritual of majesty.

That’s a piece of history more than 400 years ago. Cambodia is now a country in modern time, an independent country. It’s is also a member of Asean, a regional community for economic development. But the act in undiplomatic by Hun Sen, reminds me of the history between old-days Siam and Cambodia.

I think Thailand cannot stay indifferent to Hun Sen disrespect of Thailand and his breach of the code of close international relationship among friendly countries. Doing nothing may lead to more rocky relationship between Thailand and Cambodia as well as more transgressing of Thai constitution and laws of the land by TS, the fugitive convict. Abhisit government has already lost a lot of credit for its inability to capture only one guy whose where-about is known to all his followers.

A demarche can be exercised in protest of Hun Sen’s undiplomatic remarks at Cha-Am. It can come in the form of strong memorandum of protest as a first step and progress to reducing the level of international relations from ambassadorial level to legation level by recalling Thai ambassador from Phnom Penh, leaving only a minister or a charge d'affaires to carry out the embassy work. If the transgression of good diplomatic tradition do not stop, dilution of international relations can be exercised further by withdrawal of diplomatic protection to consular service.

This strong démarche means there is no political relations at national level with any hostile state. Consular service is not considered as an agency for diplomatic representation at national level. There are two regimes applicable to international relations as international law recognises two kinds of protection all countries can exercise on behalf of their nationals: consular assistance and diplomatic protection.

Anyway, there are two sides on the diplomatic coin. One is for take a tough stand, another is to be cool and use bilateral dialogue to solve the problem. It’s worthy of giving them some thoughts.

I leave it to readers of this blog to decide whether a diplomatic démarche against Cambodia is needed to protect our national pride and honour or taking a cool stance for the sakes of avoiding an escalated tension between Thailand and Cambodia and regional peace.



Read comment

comment 82
krajog date : 09/11/2009 time : 10.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Superman ND c81,

Hi, You've just said the right thing about AV. Thanks to AV's calm and patience attitude. His move against hun sen's attempts at humiliating Thailand in every way desrves many cheers.

The shotup of his popularlity among Thai people to 68.6% in general and more than 50% in thugsin-dominated northeast region is the testimonial of his being matured political leader as a head of Thai government.

The Cambodian PM has been a traitor of his Khmer Rouge bosses, defecting to Vietnam and helped the communist Vietnam in its invasion of Kampuchea in Jan. 7,197, 4 years after US troops abandoned South Vietnam in 1975. He is a self-centred politician, capable of betraying everyone. I don't worry about the guy as he is the self-destrructive type of people. His diplomatic faux pas will come more.

What AV needs to do now is keeping good relations with other 8 Asean members and the West. But his first priority must be with his Thai supporters and do not worry too much about that convicted guy. He is moving closer to hell!

Cambodia is now a Kingdom with democratic political system. There are millions of Cambodians who hate hun sen. When two crooked people work together, the bad things will come more for Cambodian people.
comment 81
notdisappointed date : 08/11/2009 time : 14.57

I think everybodys’ misread AV. By just saying that the MOU regarding joint economic development in the Gulf of Thailand was being revoked has the Khmers hopping. The revocation is due to a simple case of ‘conflict of interest’; as the one who signed the MOU, is now a personal advisor to the Khmer PM.

Still after eight years the MOU has not been implemented because of an impasse in negotiations. The Khmers want a split of 90/10, with them getting 90% - while the Thai side wants a 60/40, a fairer split with the Thai side receiving 60%.

Well if he couldn't cut off hun sen's head; at least AV cut off hun sen's testicles. The khmers need the money from the gas fields in the Gulf to finance hun sen's investments, er, the country's development.

AV's popularity is rocketing and people of all 'colors' and stripes, have come together in nationalistic unity against khmer antagonism. thaksin's involvement is clear for all Thais to see and it's been a bit of a disappointed to his reds. Personally, I’m ‘not disappointed’.

Opening move went well with chavalit going to Khampuchea accompanied by the Thai press and TV to make the evening news; the faux pas by hun sen on the eve of ASEAN; now recently making thaksin his personal economic advisor were done brilliantly and created much attention worldwide; but IMO, it with regret to them, backfired. hun sen is once again made to look the buffoon internationally with his remarks comparing thaksin with Aung San and a still lame excuse for a country leader by being accomplice to a criminal’s flight from justice and his offer of sanctuary.

thaksin has lost his shine by tarnishing himself with a khmer thug who is trying to take advantage of his ‘home’. To provide advice, and to aid and abet the theft of Thai sovereignty and territorial boundaries for the benefit of a khmer.

SHAME on you thaksin!

Good job AV!!
comment 80
dryshrimp date : 06/11/2009 time : 08.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dryshrimp

K Expresso,
C 78
You are not Thai but I feel you are more Thai than many Thai.
comment 79
peacefulness date : 04/11/2009 time : 18.05


pics, chavalit is a betrayer, a traitor as stated by gen prem tinasulanonda a few days ago.
comment 78
expresso date : 02/11/2009 time : 05.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Better feel sorry for some Thais who seem to defend Hun Sen just for the simply reason that they worship a Thai traitor.
comment 77
peacefulness date : 30/10/2009 time : 11.28
nationmultimedia.com


what do you expect if and when these two "Guys" should be together????????????

hidden agendas?????
ulterior motives???????
kho kong casino??????
new entertainment complex??????
developing natural gas????????
and so on and on and on.............

pics, thaksin with hun sen on the green of "siem reap"province, cambodia 05apr2008.
comment 76
peacefulness date : 30/10/2009 time : 11.03
nationmultimedia.com


how can you expect something positive from a guy called "hun sen"?????????????????????
comment 75
peacefulness date : 30/10/2009 time : 10.58
nationmultimedia.com


pics,

aum, it's strange, lately so many people of RANK flowing into puea thai pty, but p/t pty's fate is not so harmonious(compatible) with the word "RANK".

what(how) can you certify that?????

acting pty leader was accused of betrayal,
the owner of pty will be stripped of RANK.
comment 74
peacefulness date : 30/10/2009 time : 10.30
nationmultimedia.com


pics,

chavalit: noojuk "grandpa jiew will never think of betraying...............


betraying "thaksin" for sure.........hehehehehe

----------------
comment 73
netnapit date : 30/10/2009 time : 03.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/netnapit

I feel sorry for the Cambodian people to have him as Prime Minister.
comment 72
HA_HA date : 29/10/2009 time : 21.20

k krajog, it's in my c51.

here again :

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topic/P8478545/P8478545.html

muupan68. from c30
comment 71
krajog date : 29/10/2009 time : 21.07
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Christy c70,
No one who understands democracy would want to see a military coup as a political solution. But Thai people like me have lived with so many coups. Military coup is like one side of the politcal coin. Another side is democracy. But military coups have happened in politically underdeveloped countries like Thailand and some countries in Africa and central America.

But political coins in Europe and North America have both sides representaing democracy. The difference is only which party of the two largest, the Conservative or the Labour to become the ruling government. In the US, it's between Democrat or Republican.

Thailand has been plagued with graft and corruption for the last 75 years. A coup was welcome by the people because they were desperate amd lost in political maze.

If Thailand was clean of corruption and TS did as he promised when he formed the TRT Party.
All Thai people from all walks of life would very happy, including me. There would be no PAD and no one would support them if PAD accusations against TS were groundless. Gen. Prem would have no reason to say anything politics. Gen. Sonthi would have no reason to stage a coup.

At the start of TS's TRT campaign, one of the policies was to claen up the corruption. That's why people in Bangkok support TRT. TS attracted a lot of well-known academics because they believe him. But almost all of those academics faded out one by one until TS was left with only his employees to help him run the government. If TS did not conceal his assets with his servantsm his house security guard and personal secretary, there would be no Trial by the constitution court.

All things he had done were wrong, very wrong in terms of mrality. Do you believe in Cause and Effect Law. Can smoke exist if somehing is not burning? Can anyone prosecute TS if he had done something barred by law? If Samak did not try to amend the constitution, PAD would have no ground to go out into streets and occupied the Government House. If Somchai do not try to continue what Samak had failed and violently subdued PAD supports. The PAD Rally supporters were killed, 10 of them altogether including those who slept at their rally site at the government House. Several of them were injured by police violent suppression. Some of Them lost their limps.

You may say it served them right!

I don't want to say anything abou TS anymore. You can believe anything you love to believe. It's not of my concern.

I wrote about Hun Sen's remarks and his interference with Thailand's internal affairs and the ridiculous comparison between TS and Aung San Suu Kyi. People in Burma have reacted against Hun Sen's foolish remarks.

You are a brainy girl. You should know the vast differnece between TS and Suu Kyi. She was jailed. She was put under house arrest for the past 20 years. He have fought the regime at home. She refused to leave Burma. She wants to die fighting on the battle field. She dares to put her life at stake. TS jumped bail and lied to the court for the chance to escape.

Please do not bring up this matter again to this blog. It's a waste of time to you and to me.
comment 70
ChristySweet date : 29/10/2009 time : 19.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ChristySweet

C 12 Krajog,

I am sorry, No I am not as versed in T poliocs as you may be. But a coup doesn't work in a democracy. Perhaps Tland needs to find its own balance in political system, and Dem ain't it but I tell you sir, these latest thugs will destroy your counttry
,closing airports closing blogs....
They are ruthless and care not for people, only what they see as their way .
comment 69
krajog date : 29/10/2009 time : 17.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c67, c68,

I accept your view. You believe what you want to believe. I believe I want to believe.

I couldn't find the link to the architect in your comment 68.
comment 68
HA_HA date : 29/10/2009 time : 11.10

the architect's opinion, please click into the link, sir.
comment 67
HA_HA date : 29/10/2009 time : 11.09

no, khun krajog.
i don't believe in everything i read...especially Sondhi Lim 5555

you know, i feel you don't believe that anyone who anti Thaksin can do no wrong. Just like some irrational red who argue thaksin didn't corruption.

last but not least ; for me everyone is human. and no human is perfect.


comment 66
krajog date : 29/10/2009 time : 09.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c65,

Please keep in mind that I calculated the cost of Lumpini Park toilet faciliies on my own assumption at total floor space of 420 sq.m. at bare concrete cost bht15,000/sq.m. These figures are what I used as bases for calculation. if Architect Muupaan65 can get actual figures from BMA, we know for sure that this project is a corruption case at BMA. Please heed the Lord Buddha's teaching of Kalamasuta (¡ÒÅÒÁÊÙµÃ). In which he taught us of using your wisdom to think about what other people said before you decided to believe it. In short, don't jump to conclusion so easily.

What I know about KY Charuwan's house is the land was brought long time ago by KY's husband before a new divided 6-lane road cut through from Song Pra Pa Rd. to join Nonthaburi-Patumthani Rd. at Tivanond Rd from Pakkred. She built the house from time to time from her savings according to her financial condition. The house as I heard from media investigation costs not more than 10 million baht. I don't read those websites. Can you believe the syaing of those politicized people who bent on destroying the monarchy?

I don't criticise you on what you want to believe. It's your rights. I merely suggest that don't believe in everything your heard, even it's a statement from Abhisit or any politician. I believe the sayinf of a real good person, of great people like His Majesty the King. whom the only monarch the whole world and the UN recognised officially in many ways. Please let me know of the architect's opinion.
comment 65
HA_HA date : 28/10/2009 time : 21.48

thanks khun krajog for taking your time.
I don't know anything about construction cost.
There're comments from an architect Muupaan68.
I would love post your comment there. And see what she will say.

and do you see they talked about KY. Charuwan's house?


comment 64
Ian date : 28/10/2009 time : 21.30
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Krajog, you have just made one thing clear to me, never to employ you as a builder Brand new two floor detached houses with grounds are selling in my area for 1.98 MBaht and 2.3MBaht.
comment 63
krajog date : 28/10/2009 time : 17.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c57,

If the bht 15,000/sq.m cost is accurate for the time-ebing. We should make assumption in this way.
I guess each toilet facility is measured at 10x6m = 60sq.m. Bare concrete cost/sq.m 15,000+interior work (wiring, lighting, paint, celing) at 20% (medium price) at bht3,000/sq.m. Toilet equipment at Bht 4,500/sq.m. So, we have bht15,000+3,000+4,500 =bht22,500/sq.m. overall cost. If we base our calculation on 7 toilet facilities, the overall sq.m is 420 sqm. That's 420x22,000 = Bht8,400,000. This can be the contractor's basic cost per sq.m.

That basic cost at lowest estimation, not yet include interest expense at MLR for 4-6 months of construction period, administrative cost, consulting engineer cost, taxes and mark-up of at least 10% material loss rate and mark-up for unforeseen expense at around 10%.

Unforseen expense mark-up at 10% of 22,000 (basic cost+interest) = bht 2,200. Mark-up for material loss or scrap rate at 10% of Bht 22,000 = bht2,200. Consulting engineering cost should be around bht5,000 a day or bht 150,000 a month or bht900,000 for 6 months.

O.K let add up all this calculable cost forst. The formula is bht22,000+2,200+2,200 = bht 26,400/sq.m. = overall initial cost of Bht 11,365,200 (420x26,400)+bht900,000 (engineering consulting fee) = Bht11,988,000.If profit mark-up is set at 20% = bht 2,397600. So, overall figure is bht.14,385,600 according to configuration above.

Well, if the winning bid price for the 7 toilest building at Lumpine Park is Bht 14,888,600. I think my costing is quite accurate at bht 14,385,600

I don't how high is the BMA's mean construction price. But I guess it shoulde be around bht15 million.

The figure I got from my costing estimate is based on my assumption that the total area of the toilet facilties is 420sq.m. If the actual construction plan requires less area, my calculation will not applicable.

And please note that the profit mark-up is 20% of overall cost, which is reasonable. This calculation is known as EBITDA (earnings before interest expense, taxes, depreciation and amortization).

If the construction plan of the 7 toilet building drastically differs from my calculation in terms overall area., we would know it involves corruption. If not, I think the construction cost BMA has to pay is fair.
comment 62
Plaadip date : 28/10/2009 time : 16.31

C59, hahaha, sorry, I thought you were saying that one toilet room cost 2 million baht.
comment 61
HA_HA date : 28/10/2009 time : 15.49

c59, mr. panya ..sh h h h h h now everybody knows your house is cheaper than a row of public shxt hole.



umm.. mine too...
comment 60
Plaadip date : 28/10/2009 time : 15.23

C59, really?! But I rather think they would use more subtle ways when stealing money. A little bit too obvious?
comment 59
panya date : 28/10/2009 time : 14.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

I mean, that's 2 million per toilet. A townhouse doesn't even cost 2 million, and I've built one!
.
comment 58
panya date : 28/10/2009 time : 14.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

7 toilets for 14 million baht is ridiculous, anywhere in Bangkok

You can build a small house for less than that.

Bah!
.
comment 57
HA_HA date : 28/10/2009 time : 13.54

c55...khun krajog.

i went back to read the thread after i read yours. his 15,000 baht per sq.m cost of construction is in line with yours. from his estimation that budget can build 350 toilets in 7 buildings ... anyway let's wait and see how fancy the toilet with that budget gonna be.

i used to go to lumpini park almost every work day. i can ensure you it's so very basic comparing with the public toilets in office building around there : the former Diethelm building or All Season buliding.

And don't compare with the toilet in Germany. Germany has sky-high environment , waste treatment, water treatment standards. And the cost.

Anyway, i think we should have this kind of investigation on any government's projects whether it be Thaksin's government or AV's government. It's our tax and the well being of the ordinary people that we should protect. Not anyone power.


comment 56
krajog date : 28/10/2009 time : 13.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Dryshrimp c53,

I agree with your comment, thanks
comment 55
krajog date : 28/10/2009 time : 13.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c51,

I have read that cooment about Lumpini Park Toilet construction. I curious about it have you any detailed specification of the project. We need to know facts before criticizing anyone.

My opinion about the project at this stage is: if BMA project is for public toilets that located at different 7 points in the park for convenience of park users. Lumpini Park are now a place for people to go for jogging and aerobic exercise in the morning and the evening as well as music festival from time to time. I don't know how things about public toilets there. I have not gone to the park for many years.

The number of people who go there for their exercise should be more than one thousand. Public toilet facilities plan there should be designed for the mass and each facilities must be divided into Gents and Ladies section in all seven units. There must be more that 10 urinals for gents with toilet rooms large enough to accommodate mass of people. Gents toilet facilities are more expensive.

You cannot compare a house toilet with public one. Public toilets at Lumpini Park should be designed for at least 2,000 people. All flush equipment must be of heavy duty type that more expensive that those used in private home.

I have not involved in construction project since 1996 when I left the now defunct World Trade Center Bangkok as its general manager and the first director of World Trade Center Plaza (shopping mall). So, I can't say how much is a standard cost per sq.m of a bare concrete multi-level structure. At the time around 1993-3 a high-rise building, a standard cost per unit of structural construction only was around 7,000-8,000 bht per sq.m. Interior works for high-end look per floor was at least 60%-70% of structural works. Of course a low-rise buidling is much lower.

High-rise building needs strong bore-pile foundation very deep into the ground. That's why the cost is high. You can check for construction cost per sq.m. of a retail area of a shopping mall of you know how much they charge shopfloor rent plus up-front payment. The same can be done for a highrise office building. The office rent rate will give you the clue for their construction costs.

I discuss with you in the cost of construction of hishrise building and shopping mall out of my expreiece. Now things have changed a lot in a span of 15-20 years. But a one-level structure of a public toilet cost should be much higher now. Bht 13,000-15,000 per sq.m might be possible at a conservative estimate.
But the best ay is to look at the plan of the toilet construction with all details.

I think you need to look at public facilities designed for the mass in different perspective from that for private homes. If you are in Germany you will understand about public facilities. All equipment from door handle to to faucet handle is for heavu duty use. Khun Yabua may give some views about it as she lives in Germany.

Well, thanks for continuing your dialogue with me in a polite way. I don't want to change your view on what you think right or to agree with me. Other people like GGrass or Ian might think about me in their own perspective. That's okay with me. I'm not angry at them. Blogging is for comments, if they are done in without degrading remarks.
comment 54
panya date : 28/10/2009 time : 12.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Ian C52

Not really an expert, but obviously I know more than you!

Hot air cannot really lend credibility to an observation. In reality, it is more likely to obscure or distort its clarity. It's the same sort of effect as you get in the desert, or driving along a very hot road - the rising heat interferes with one's vision.

Now don't get any more steamed up!


comment 53
dryshrimp date : 28/10/2009 time : 12.40
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dryshrimp

Khun Krajog:
We learnt from the history since our Ayudhya time that we cannot trust Cambuchian leaders.
Thanksin placed the trap and PM Abhisit had to be more careful dealing with Hun Sen.
And of course some traitors who forgot their motherland's dignity and pride have been acting like they are in favour of Hun Sen.
They thought the approach was diplomatic, but in fact pathetic.
We do not have to respond to the battle of saliva.
There are some other ways to deal with this sensitive issue and I am sure some diplomats in the MoFA are now reacting to it in a careful way.
comment 52
Ian date : 28/10/2009 time : 10.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Panya 45, seems to be an expert on hot air, well I guess he should know.
Krajog seem very competent at generating hot air, no doubt this is why Panya defends him.
The simple fact is that there is little factual comment in a Krajog comment, it is predictable, it has two themes, support the monarchy, attack Thaksin. The rest is indeed hot air.
comment 51
HA_HA date : 28/10/2009 time : 09.25

Khun Krajog,

My saying I googled but couldn't find the info on Panthip (i read before) because I had no time. So I just picked the first one I found which had the same info.) Not that they're not there. I frist learnt about KY Charuwan from Pantip.

and

"He's quite arrogant but he changed his mind to observe Buddhism seriously. ASTV carris a lot of Buddhist Dharma programmes. How About TS? he is obsessed with supersitition of all kinds, even ghoulish and cursing rituals. Compare the differences and you will see things clearer."


Isn't it Sondhi Lim that did all kind of superstitious things? His wearing white and blessing people with his holy water? His using of used women sanitary rag at the King Rama V monument to get rid of the spell he accused Thaksin of hiring a Khmer sorcerer to tame the power of King Rama V. the infuriate many Thais? Actually, I couldn't careless about these things. A stone is a stone to me.

Well another corruption here from Pantip found this morning to share with you. Construction of 7 toilets at Lumpini Park costs more than 14 million baht.

You see...this is under the Billionair MR. Sukhumbhandu Boripatr

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topic/P8478545/P8478545.html

Sorry for Farang readers who can't read Thai. The comment are quite funny : NOW THEY'RE EATING SHxT.

Yes, khun krajoj ...i will never stop pursuing intelligence. it's my mission...i admit something i found left me in awe ...some is just bullshxt. ..(excuse me for my french...can't find more proper word.)



comment 50
GGrass date : 28/10/2009 time : 09.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

Krajog seems to be deaf and blind.

It appears he can't hear anything, and he can't read anything.
comment 49
krajog date : 28/10/2009 time : 08.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c47-48,

Your last two comments brought me to my computer a little bit early. You seem to be disturbed of my siding with Sondhi Lim. I can tell you this.

I have known Sondhi Lim personally when he just came back from the US back in 1976. He used to work UNDER me in a group of companies now defunct. I was a senior corporate executive in the group supervising some companies in the group including a company with Sondhi Lim as its MD. I know what he had done in the past. I'm not his followers. I follow his activities since he organized the Thailand weekly rally at Lumpini Park.

He's quite arrogant but he changed his mind to observe Buddhism seriously. ASTV carris a lot of Buddhist Dharma programmes. How About TS? he is obsessed with supersitition of all kinds, even ghoulish and cursing rituals. Compare the differences and you will see things clearer.

I know he used to support TS during the forming of TRT party and helped TS in the election that TRT won the largest seats in the parliament but not a clear majority. Everyone of Thailand's top social leaders and top academics, old and young. Because they were hungry for good politicians and fell victims to TS's political campaign of Think Anew, Do Anew. A few years late all top academic people faded out from TS's fold. Why? TS changed his political policy to Think Rich First, Country Later. The rest is history.

Sondhi Lim used to be in jail for issuing bouncing checks, which Thai law defines paying debts with dud checks a crime. I know Sondhi Lim made money in uncleanly ways. But he had paid his bad karma and changed his behaviour and way of life. He became arch nemesis of TS. He braved enough to expose many TS's schemes to exploit this nation on his programme on MCOT channel 9 while other talk shows reveal nothing about TS's corruption.

Well, you may think about me anyway you like. It's private rights. But want to point out something out of your own words. You said you regularly search for information from Pantip site but your found nothing about Khunying Charuwan. Then you googled and found a lot of information from websites like E-New. Didn't you know that there so many websites that back TS to use him as a tool to make this country without a monarchy. You may not feel any good about our monarchy. It's your private choice to love or not love the royal family why millions ofThai people benefitting from the royal projects and other benevolences of Their Majesties and while the whole world recognized Their Majesty for what they have done for poor Thai people in remote areas.

You said that TS has no gut like Than Puying Poonsuk Bhanomyong. That's right. I must say he has no gut at all if compared with Aung San suu Kyi, who has been jailed and out under house arrest during the past 20 years and she refused to go anywhere outside Burma.

Your mind is like a coin that always has two sides.

I have worked voluntarily for one of His Majesty projects for more than 30 years. I got no decoration. It's not important to me. Royal decorations are recognition for long service in the government agencies. It's a routine procedure initiated by King Chulalongkorn as Siam in the old days started to take European tradition as its own.

Well, I accept your decision about me. No harm done. Good luck, HA_HA. Be yourself, use your intelligence.
comment 48
HA_HA date : 27/10/2009 time : 21.45

for c46,

i think any position in Thailand any kind of decoration. Do you think it's important for Thaksin at this moment?

Apart from corruption one thing I am disappointed about Thaksin is he has no gut like the widow of Dr. Pridi Banomyong who stated in her will :

"I WISH TO HAVE NO HONOUR CONFERRED ON ME"


comment 47
HA_HA date : 27/10/2009 time : 21.35

oh well, khun krajog.

you asked me and i told you what i read and i heard.
then i thought may be my english and my memory is not good enough. so i tried to google one for you. this one is not what i read before. mostly i read from pantip but i couldn't find it. really have no time. so i just picked up one from google. and there're many ..so many.

so you totally believe Thaksin is the only who is bad. everyone else who is bad you claim thaksin hired people to make up the news.

When you come up with your latest ASTV news i have no furthur doubt about if you're a reasonable man.

again, as i said before many time. i don't hate people who corrupt more than people who corrupt and accuse other people of corruption.

check Sondhi Lim's history. How many banks did he owe money. You worked in bank before. You must know he made false documents to ask for loan.

Someone once wrote in Panthip forum saying I am not Red or Yellow. I'm not interested in politics. But I noticed one thing when you listen to Sondhi Lim hate everybody he mentioned. But when you listen to Thaksin you don't hate anybody.

thank you. i want to hear no more from Sondhi Lim's disciple.

If anybody believe in him. Now you can vote for him in the coming election. Let he be your PM. I will accept him too if he got the majority.



comment 46
krajog date : 27/10/2009 time : 20.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Another Blow of Bad Karma Immediate Effect on TS, the Fugitive Convict

BREAKING NEWS

At 6.15 pm today (Oct27), ASTV reported that the Council of State has sent its opinion for an enquiry made by The National Police Office on the stripping of the police Lt.Col. rank on TS as he was sentenced for 2-year imprisonment on his violation of the corruption law in his involvement in the Rajadapisek land deal between his former wife and the Financial Institution Development Fund, an agency run by the Bank of Thailand.

TS had used his premiership status to confirm his consent for his wife to go ahead with the buying of a plot of land on the Rajadapisek Rd. That was a conflict of interest not allowed by corruption law. Everyone knows that the bidding for the land was a collusion among the three bidders.

The Council of State makes it clear that The National Police Office has to issue an order to strip the police officer rank of lieutenant colonel in accordance with the police regulations.

The stipping of rank on police officers who broke the law and found guilty as charged by the criminal court and their cases were final is, in fact, a routine procedure supported by the police regulations. But the case of TS was delayed purposefully since late last year by the National Police Office.

Abhisit government instructed the National Police Office to enforce the regulations on TS early this year but the National Police Office under its last chief, Pol. Gen. Patcharavart obviously delayed the process and sent an enquiry to The Council of State, the government's legal counsellors.

Meanwhile, the Prime Minister Office also sent an enquiry to The Council of State for its opinion on recalling of royal decorations from TS and the Council advised the PM Office to list the royal decorations TS has received since he was becoming a police officer and received the first royal decoration and send the list to the Royal Secretariat Office to ask for the royal permission for the recall, according to the palace protocol.

If everything is done as advised by the Council of State, TS will be reduced to an ordinary man without any rank. His honour and respectability will become nothing. The only status he can retain is a convict. He would also be stripped of his right to enter politics again.

The effect of bad Karma needs not to come to sinner or bad karma doer until his next life. It may immediately come to the bad karma doer in his present life, according to Buddhism.
comment 45
panya date : 27/10/2009 time : 19.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Ian C44

Not factual statements, allegations which you choose to conclude as factual.

In any case, hot air only offers credibility to the theory of balloon flight


comment 44
Ian date : 27/10/2009 time : 19.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Krajog, As I read it HA_HA offered you factual statements, you refute them with hot air, this lends credibility to her observations.
comment 43
krajog date : 27/10/2009 time : 17.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c42,

Thank you for giving me the link to E-New.

Well, it's your rights to believe what you want to believe. You are an innocent girl. While you say you believe that TS is corrupt as people say, you also believe hearsies fanned up by TS's slaves and the Red gang. How conflicting raisons d'etre you have in your thought.

If you believe in what those people who trying every dirty trick to dismantle our monarchy through all kinds of slandering and insulting remarks just to serve a politician you admitted he is corrupt, you would end up being part of the evil gang and being robbed of your soul and conscience. It's a pity that young people like you falling prey to dirty oldman TS and his underlings who think money is everything.

Don't sell you soul to the people of bad karma. Hell is where they are going to. Corrupt people never say the truth. How sad that god people like you can be easily convinced by bad karma doers.
comment 42
HA_HA date : 27/10/2009 time : 15.55

As far as i remember she was criticizing for hiring her unqualified son in the Audit bureau.

Put her daughter which has nothing to do with the bureau on her team to visit Russia?

Her 50 million baht house in Nonthaburi.

Hire her husband's company to do some training projects for the audit bureau. The company was later found out just an dilapidated shophouse.

My last heard of her is she being charge for something right?

ok... i have found this for you :

http://thaienews.blogspot.com/2009/05/blog-post_7272.html
comment 41
krajog date : 27/10/2009 time : 15.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA__HA c40,

What are you implying? Has Khunying Charuwan done something you don't like?
comment 40
HA_HA date : 27/10/2009 time : 10.19

Thanks for your time khun krajog.
Now back to Thaksin and Samak corruption again. I know they're corrupted. Every politician does one way or another. I'm not going to talk about the politicians .. but anyone who has authority look at Khun Ying Charuwan of the of the Audit bureau ??? (Kor Tor Sor) herself.

My point is why are they being treated differently. As long as there's this double standard justice system just to deal with Thaksin. The case about Thaksin is political.

Me too want a clean and EFFICIENT PM.

----------------------

c31 ms. christysweet... ya ya, i'm 16. let me guess i think you're 18
comment 39
massein date : 27/10/2009 time : 08.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

Mr T does not deserve any sympathetic, Nor do the Generals that had a coup against him. this is all about who get the biggest slice of pie. Mr A could well be the House cleaner, but he has aliened himself ppl that have no moral ground to stand on. The political system is so designed that a independent person cannot come in and clean up Thailand. Mr Krajog can you certify who is not corrupt. Although this is my only voice me and many others love Thailand with our whole heart
comment 38
massein date : 27/10/2009 time : 08.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

This blogs and responses make it clear, That Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right. The problem is that there have been so many wrongs, that we are all lost in a maze of corruption, Mr. T was corrupt, all the parties have been corrupt, if not now , in the past.There is no hope without a complete house cleaning. Where can the country find someone to clean the house,and pick up the trash
comment 37
GGrass date : 27/10/2009 time : 08.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

"I leave it to readers of this blog to decide whether a diplomatic démarche against Cambodia is needed to protect our national pride and honour or taking a cool stance for the sakes of avoiding an escalated tension between Thailand and Cambodia and regional peace."

Clean up the mess and you won't get any flies in your house.
comment 36
GGrass date : 27/10/2009 time : 08.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

"Should Thailand execute its diplomatic démarche of some kind to show the world that Thailand’s is not a country without national pride and honour or stay calm for the sake of Asean unity?"


comment 35
GGrass date : 27/10/2009 time : 07.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

Krajog : What would you do if you were PM of Cambodia, if Taksin asks to stay in Cambodia?
comment 34
Plaadip date : 27/10/2009 time : 01.36

C33, hahaha(HA_HA, I am laughing), thank you for the joke, refreshing!
comment 33
lurker date : 27/10/2009 time : 00.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/lurker

This is such a complicated topic, because of historical tensions between Thailand and Cambodia.

There are many things at play here:

First, Thai-Cambodia relations in the context of history where Thailand seems to have an imperial and patronizing attitude towards Cambodia.

Second, you have the issue of Thai internal politics.

Both issues seem to have been conflated into the perfect storm.

Does Cambodia have the right to national sovereignty and can do as it pleases in its own right? Yes.

On the other hand, I think Chalerm and Chavalit running to Cambodia and meeting with Hun Sen, as advocates of Thaksin's interests rather than serving the national interests, borders on treasonous activity.

Whatever the feelings are on the topic, Thai politicians shouldn't be meeting with foreign heads of government to undermine the government, especially when it is purposely used to interfere with Thai internal politics.

However, I think what Chavalit and Hun Sen are doing is to intentionally irritate some in Thailand to get a provoked response and that strategy is working.

Thaksin, at heart, is a narcissist. If you want to get rid of the Thaksin effect, the best thing to do is ignore him, but his enemies love to keep him in the news as this boogeyman to beat on over and over again.

I think the best thing to do with Thaksin is to treat him in the same way you do when you meditate:

Acknowledge his existence, but don't get worked up about it, acknowledge, acknowledge, then eventually the attachment becomes so weak, he will wither away.

Obsession over Thaksin doesn't hurt Thaksin, it only hurts those who are obsessed with him and his every move.
comment 32
krajog date : 26/10/2009 time : 23.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c25,

The whole Thai justice system in the post-coup period is in fact not as it supposes to be. The justice system as a whole included police as an initial mechanism of law enforcement, the next sub-process is the proscution work by the Attorney-General Office and the last an important part of the process is the judicial process or the courts of all types, criminal, civil, administrative and constitution courts. The criminal court and civil court for ordinary cases have 3-level of trial procedure, the lower, the appelate and supreme courts, except the criminal court for political office-holders, which has only one court system, the supreme court. This means the trial is done once and final. But the regulations have an exception for re-consideration of the verdict given if the defendants have new evidences to present to the court.

In the old days. Thai judges were accused of unfair trials in some cases involving powerful provincial mafia bosses. Provincial proscutors were also accused of impropriety and breach of ethics.

I couldn't say how much the whole justice system has improved. In 1991, the constitution court doing the TS's assets concealment case as charged by the Anti-Corruption Commission was accused of unfair trial in favour of TS in a split decision verdict 8/7 ratio between not guilty and guilty. In fact, in the 8 not guillty individual judge verdicts include two abstention.

The chief judge, a former law professor at Law Faculty of Chulalongkorn University decided to add the two abstentions with the not-guilty verdicts. That's why TS had been found by the court as qualified to be a prime minister, who reduced Thailand to the one of most-corrupt countries in the world almost at the bottom of the list compiled by an international agency on corruption in governments.

Samak's case of running a cooking show on TV, which the constitution courts found he breached the corruption law and resulted in his loss of premiership. The UDD branded the court's decision as double standard, which was not accurated. The law bans politicians from doing any business because it's a conflict of public interest and personal interest. A prime minister's moonlighting as TV host for a cooking show with a line-up of sponsors' brands as backdrop in the TV studio was improper in itself by any standard. You know what? the owner of a pepper brand, as a major sponsor of Samak's cooking TV show was appointed by Samak as a member of the Board of Thai Airways International, the most freak appointment of THAI Borad's history. Think about an owner of a store selling ground pepper in the market, without any knowledge of international airline operations, was made a board of director by a prime minister. Could you do the same if you were a prime ministe? Any people with conscience won't do that kind of insane appointment as done by Samak. He is now serving his bad karma in the hospital.

Rethink about it, my sweet sixteen! It's pretty late now, I need to sign off.
comment 31
ChristySweet date : 26/10/2009 time : 22.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ChristySweet

C 17

Ha H A, You are very sweet , 16 yo, really?

I know how anyone , the majority who voted T in must be seething at the coup , but then that really is the M O for the political system..

Seems perhaps some fundamental ...mores are needed for a democratic system to work, but hell, Ben Franklin warned human nature would preclude its success about them , maybe it isn't the best , but what else..?
If you have a benevolent absolute leader , OK , but too often power gets shifted to less admirable .
I think that may be [ CENSORED by Thai Police ]
comment 30
Plaadip date : 26/10/2009 time : 22.02

C27 hahaha(I am laughing)

I will leave before the school master give me a penalty. Cheers.
comment 29
krajog date : 26/10/2009 time : 22.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Al c21,

I respect you as reasonable blogger. I can write a neutral blog with information extracted from various sources. But I write about politics in this country as Thai national. My personal thought and reflection on a political incident happened in this country should expressed to show my political inclination. Otherwise, my writing is not worth anything. I did not report news. I commented with supporting information. I don't demand any reader to see things as a wrote. I give them two sides of the story. But I need to say what I think right. Readers can disagree with me. It's their rights. I respect other people's comments. If it's not fair enough to you. It's okay with me. We discuss matters as adults. Right?
comment 28
Al date : 26/10/2009 time : 21.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/albert

Yabua 26
Ohh, sorryyyy... I didn't know that you have been quoting them! How could I think that these are your words???!
comment 27
HA_HA date : 26/10/2009 time : 21.46

c20, sashimi-san, now you made one 'h' and two 'a's too small. it's HA_HA


comment 26
yabua date : 26/10/2009 time : 21.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yabua

Re C 8
Al, it means, then, that Thaksin and Hun Sen have Nazi mentality.
I agree.
comment 25
HA_HA date : 26/10/2009 time : 21.37

umm...now that's good question about EU and the USA. i have to consider about this.

and do you think the justice system in Thailand is fair to him? i haven't heard you mention anything about this.


comment 24
GGrass date : 26/10/2009 time : 21.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

What would you do if you were Hunsen?
comment 23
krajog date : 26/10/2009 time : 21.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c17,

Anyway, you remain a sweet sixteen to me.

IF your lovable ex-PM is a political victim of unfair court trial, WHY he was shunned and barred from entering by EU countries and has his assets frozen in Britain? FYI, your beloved ex-PM's name was completely erased from the record of Manchester City as if he was once an evil thing to them. All of his pictures and signs bearing his name were removed from Man-City boardroom and other areas of the club's football stadium. This is an unprecedented treatment to a former chairman of a football club in nearly two centuries of British footbal history. Some of the coaches said that during your beloved guy's days as the club chairman the club suffered financial hardship as a result of mismanagement.

If he has been recognised as a political victim seeking a place for political assylum or a good politician toppled by a military coup, why is he unwelcome in EU where many politicians from other countries allowed to stay in? Why he has to befriend with shady regimes in Eastern Europe, Latin America and Africa? Why is he like a strayed dog to democacy-crazed EU countries. He even dare not set foot in the US.

Use your cute head to think harder. See all things around you in their actual perspective. Fooling yourseves is unhealthy to your wisdom. Sorry, I'm not patronizing you but think of you as a blogger friend.
comment 22
Plaadip date : 26/10/2009 time : 21.23

C21, what Hun Sen did is that 19 century stuff. Abihist responded it in 21 century way.
comment 21
Al date : 26/10/2009 time : 20.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/albert

ND,
pls come on... personal attacks are out... we have enough problems here. Why should CS not ask and show her position? I find her questions justified. They are pointing to a major problem that can't be overlooked.

Another question: Why so much excitement about that? What would be the disadvantage for Thailand if Thaksin would be an economic advisor in Cambodia?

K. Krajog,
I would prefer a presentation without personal affections, degrading adjectives and changes of names. Wouldn't it be better to stay with the facts?

The mentioned diplomatic reactions remind me of the 19th century. A politician of the 21st centurty should be able to think in realistic concepts. Thailand don't need more problems. Pressure onto the sovereignty of a neighbouring country is a very doubtful way to reach an aim. I hope AV learnt in Oxford to avoid such situations.
comment 20
Plaadip date : 26/10/2009 time : 20.52

Ha_ha No no. I was just laughing. I responded to ND's comment. :) But it seems to have been deleted by the blog owner.
comment 19
krajog date : 26/10/2009 time : 20.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

ND,

I think your moving cartoon character is obscene. So I have deleted your comment. Sorry, hope you understand.
comment 18
HA_HA date : 26/10/2009 time : 20.46

c17 sashimi-san, you got one "ha" too many. it's HA_HA.


comment 17
HA_HA date : 26/10/2009 time : 20.44

k krajog...

umm... i read your reply twice. me, believe in pm hunsen word? hunsen didn't say anything for me to believe or not believe. the point here is pm hunsen sees "the offense as POLITICAL ONE".

and i also see it as POLITICAL ONE and the majority of the country see this as POLITICAL ONE.

------------------------------
in your reply to ms. christysweet. why didn't the RED and other parties didn't boycotte the election after the coup. Because we believe GE is democracy way. And we got PM Samak.

PM Samak had to resigned because HIS COOKING PROGRAM ON TV. the program had been done before he was elect PM. OK, if it's wrong. It's wrong. BUT the chief judge who sit on PM Samak case also moonlighting by teaching in university as a paid lecturer. BUT he didn't have to step down from his position.. why? He the man who knows the law.

There're many another case. About company nominee, selling phone company to foreign companies. BUT only PM thaksin's company is attacked.

Double standard appear everywhere. Only the one who is NAIVE will trust this kind of system.

I'm sweet sixteen. yup i like that very much. How about some 60-70 years old experienced and well educated men NAIVE enough to believe this is not a political matter?????


comment 16
Plaadip date : 26/10/2009 time : 20.40

C15, hahaha, Hun Sen is not that bad. He may be doing a right thing for Cambodian people. For me, who is using whom is very clear. Why? Hun Sen is in cotrol of the state power his grip of which is very solid. Thaksin nor Chawalit does not have it. So who has upperhands is very clear. By using them, Hun Sen would get more for him and for Cambodian people as a result.
comment 15
HA_HA date : 26/10/2009 time : 20.19


comment 14
krajog date : 26/10/2009 time : 19.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Extra information from The Irrawady as reported on Sat. Oct. 24 by Simon Roughneen, its correspondent:

Last month, Cambodian opposition leader Sam Rainsy was in Bangkok, where he addressed the Foreign Correspondents’ Club of Thailand on press freedom in Cambodia. Rainsy slammed the Hun Sen administration, saying that it gives token assent to freedom of speech but uses state resources to hit critics with defamation suits, backed by a pro-government judiciary.

Thitinan said he thinks that Hun Sen has taken umbrage at Rainsy using his time in Thailand to attack the Cambodian government.

Speaking to The Irrawaddy on the sidelines of the Asean summit, Cambodian opposition MP San Cchay said that Hun Sen’s reaction shows that he does not understand how a liberal democracy works.

“Just because Sam Rainsy talks in critical terms while in Thailand does not mean it has anything to do with the Thai government. Hun Sen merely betrays his own anti-democratic leanings with such an assumption,” he said.

Yesterday, the anti-government and pro-Thaksin United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) called on Asean to withdraw support for Abhisit as the bloc’s chairman.

The UDD is seeking a royal pardon to enable Thaksin return to Thailand without having to face jail time on corruption charges. The UDD is also seeking a general election and deems the Abhisit government as illegitimate.

Thaksin is regarded as the most popular yet divisive head of government in recent Thai history, implementing pro-poor policies and developing the northeastern Isaan region, but periodically clamping down on media, launching a draconian war on drugs and seeking a military solution to the southern Thailand Muslim rebellion.

Interestingly, Hun Sen’s comparison of Thaksin’s situation to that of Suu Kyi comes as the Nobel Peace Prize laureate marks a total of 14 years in detention today. She was first arrested in July 1989, ahead of a landslide electoral victory by her party, the National League for Democracy, in May 1990.

The comparison was made even as five Asean member states, including Cambodia, refused to allow NGO representatives other than those handpicked by the governments to attend a scheduled “civil society” meeting with regional heads of government.

Nay Vanda of the Cambodian Human Rights and Development Association—selected by the Asean People’s Forum as his country’s representative at the meeting—said he was disappointed with the outcome.

“Cambodia is supposed to be a democracy that respects the rule of law. I was chosen via a democratic process, yet the government refused to meet me. Even Communist, one-party state Vietnam was not afraid to meet the NGO representative selected by the Asean People’s Forum,” he said.

An hour after that meeting, Asean launched a new human rights body, known as the Asean Intergovernmental Human Rights Commission, which has no scope to punish or even draw attention to human rights abuses in Southeast Asia and includes the Burmese junta among its representatives.

Cambodia has usually backed the Burmese regime when it is faced with criticism from the international community.
comment 13
krajog date : 26/10/2009 time : 19.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c7,

You seem like a sweet sixteen innocent girl to believe Hun Sen's words. He commited a blatant diplomatic misconduct the world has ever seen in Thailand while attending an ASEAN Summit in the host country. Good luck, HA_HA. you need a lot of them in your love for two most dirty politicians in this region!!!
comment 12
krajog date : 26/10/2009 time : 19.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Christy c2,

Thanks for your revealing comment.

Why do most of "peanut-brain" people, who see Mr. Thug as demi-god with big bag of money NOT REALIIZED that he has committed the biggest case of CORRUPTION in the world's history, dethroning Ferdinand Marcos as the corruption champion, who was chased away from the Phillippines and died abroad?

Why do you not knowing that the THUG has ROBBED this country to the point that he lost the legitimacy to be an elected PM from the million of votes he BOUGHT from POOR grass-roots people in the NE?

The THUG was toppled by undemocratic way of military coup because the military leaders then could not stand being naive of what had happenend? Why don't you understand that Gen, Sonthi's coup was undesirable but it served the rightful propose of geeting rid of CROOKED PM, the world has ever see?
Yes, his party won again but on election FRAUD that was PROVED TRUE by the ELECTION COMMISION, the Constitution Court passed its judgment according to evidences and witnesses testifiying to support the EC's evidences. It's the justice process. The JUDGES were APPOINTED by selection process of the Parliament, not the military!!!!! IF the election was the product of military coup, WHY did the THUG's PP party participate in the election? WHY not boycott it?

Don't pretend that you was naive enough to NOT SUPPORT the THUG until PAD had done what they thought it's their rights.

Sorry, IF this country is not legitimate in your eyes, WHY not go live in Kampuchea under the care of two foxy politicians you LOVE so much?
comment 11
peacefulness date : 26/10/2009 time : 18.49
nationmultimedia.com

hahahahaha.........5555555.......... :A18

ian attracts al, hermanolobo attracts christy sweet,

catch22 attracts bangkok ray, maxheadroom attracts pomjuk............ birds of a feather attract each other..................


my C9 attracks should read "attracts"
comment 10
Al date : 26/10/2009 time : 18.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/albert

peacefulness,
and by what are you attracted?
comment 9
peacefulness date : 26/10/2009 time : 18.12
nationmultimedia.com


pics, crook attracks crook....... evil attracks evil, devil attracts devil, monster attracks monsters.......

"hia" attracts hia"
comment 8
Al date : 26/10/2009 time : 17.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/albert

''Crooks attract crooks''

How convincing!

Yabua, in Germany we call this ''Stammtischpolitik''. In that style we could hear this before 1945...
comment 7
HA_HA date : 26/10/2009 time : 17.32

He has bluffed Thailand by saying that he will give the ex-premier, who is now a fugitive convict for a crime of corruption living a billionaire life in Dubai and other places, permission to reside in Phnom Penh and appoint the guy as his adviser. It’s a slap in the face of Thai PM Abhisit Vejjajiva and a kind of political ploy against Thailand as if this country means nothing to him.


K. krajog : you have made this sound so bad.

How about if just describes the situation and PM HunSen's reason for doing so :

He denied that he was interfering in Thailand's internal affairs.

"Our concern is for humanitarian reasons, it is friends helping friends. The internal affairs of Thailand would be left for Thai people to resolve, I am not interfering."

"I would like to suggest that you should read the extradition treaty between Thailand and Cambodia on Article 3. So he can stay in Cambodia as a guest of Cambodia and he also can be my advisor on the economic (matters)."

Article 3 of the Thai-Cambodia extradition treaty states that extradition would not be granted if the requested party considered the offence is political one.

----------------------------------

Me too, think Thaksin's case is political.


and to k. yabua, c3 :

crook attracts crook. this is just the kind of word that Kasit puts his foot into his mouth when he called PM Hunsen a thug and gangster.



comment 6
Plaadip date : 26/10/2009 time : 17.26

Ian, don't worry. K Krajog once quoted the song.

Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
What will be, will be.

I hope he won't come again, but who knows what he will do next? It's more difficult than to know Hun Sen's next move.

Cheers!
comment 5
Ian date : 26/10/2009 time : 17.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

"So Apisit's measured response was an appropriate one"
Measured...Appropriate.... is one allowed to say otherwise in these blogs anymore?
Dare we risk another outbreak of insanity if we do not all bow down and kiss the feet of the apostle?
comment 4
stalingrad date : 26/10/2009 time : 15.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/stalingrad

I posted this in response to K. Suthichai's latest posting but I think it's relevant here.

I might add that in looking at Hun Sen's remarks, one is right to look at history in which the Cambodians are still resentful of the Thais' expansion at the expense of the Khmer empire a long time ago. Evidence of masterful Khmer ruins abound in northeastern Thailand testify to their empire's glory and subsequent contraction. The worse thing that Thais can do is to magnify this history as it could lead to fuel further fires of resentment, which no one gains in the end. King Sihnouk used to do almost exactly what Hun Sen has just done, baiting the Thais regularly when he was in power to stoke the fires of Khmer nationalism to his domestic political advantage.

So Apisit's measured response was an appropriate one, given the historical context. Keep the present tension limited to the theme of Thaksin. If one steps into history and delve too much on that, one will fall into Hun Sen's trap. Don't forget he's been in power for over 25 years, and anyone in power for so long has got to be looking behind his back to find a card to play to sustain himself, and focus the people away from huge deals which will enrich him and his allies (including foreign allies), given that Kampuchea is now the darling of the international capitalist and multinational community, not to mention Arab capitalists looking to develop Cambodian rice fields.

It's all a political economic game with high stakes.

Below is the posting I referred to above:

There is no way that Aung San Suu Kyi can be compared to Thaksin. Aungsan has been brave enough to remain in house arrest for years, firmly standing up for democracy right in the den of military dictatorship. She is undergoing mental and physical deprivation without flinching when she could have easily give in to the Junta's demands and received freedom in return, perhaps to exile, and a more comfortable life. She is a symbol of defiance to oppression much admired by the international fraternity, progressive and conservative. No wonder the Burmese student movement is now retaliating Hun Sen for his ill considered comparison with Thaksin.

As for Thaksin, he's light years behind Ang San in terms of guts and self-sacrifice, mainly working in the comfort of a luxury condominium with easy access to gourmet food and the like. His support comes mainly from a collection of dictatorships and rather elementary leaders in marginal countries, as can be seen in his recent travel itinerary. But I know I'm whistling against the wind in these blogs.
comment 3
yabua date : 26/10/2009 time : 14.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yabua

Crooks attract crooks. That says the best about the relation of these two (own) nation traitors.

However, I do think that the performances of the crooks and shameless Chaolalit concerning the problems of the relation between our country and Cambodia did give us Thai a very solid evidence to judge who Thaksin has been for our country.

He has been not only a corrupt politician but a nation traitor through and through.
comment 2
ChristySweet date : 26/10/2009 time : 14.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ChristySweet

Why do most of you "Real Thai" FORGET that Thaksin was elected but removed by the military. ILLEGAL
Then his party won again , but was made ineligible by judges the miitary installed ?
I really wasn't sympathetic to him either UNTIL the PAD started gooning airports, blogs etc.

Sorry but the world no longer apparently sees this country as legitimate .
comment 1
Plaadip date : 26/10/2009 time : 13.49

I don't know. Hun Sen would flip his word anytime. That's his way. I think PM Abhisit is right. Wait and see what he will do next.
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