• krajog
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FREE SPEECH FORUM
The purpose is to publish my viewpoints on Thai politics, social traditions and other topics. Anyone can make comments to agree or disagree with my viewpoints.
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard
Friday , July 3 , 2009
Operation Taksin 2: Thaksin’s plan for guerilla warfare in Thailand
Posted by krajog , Reader : 1126 , 20:30:45  
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King Taksin (taak-sin) The Great was one of Thailand’s great kings renowned for his bravery and leadership at a time of crisis and has been credited for reuniting Thai people after the fall of Ayutthaya.  The former Chao Mueang  or Governor of Tak or “Duke of Tak”, a stronghold of Ayutthaya Kingdom in the lower northern region of Ayutthaya Kingdom. He rose to power in post-Ayutthaya Period after staging  a do-or-die  escape from the Golden City of Ayutthaya in 1767 when the city’s defense against the attack of a large army from Burma collapsed as the last Ayutthaya’s King Ekatat did not allow his troops to use cannons against the Burmese force surrounding the city on ground that the booming sound would make his concubines in his palace frightened.

Other governors of satellite cities of Ayutthaya Kingdom refused to come to the rescue of their king except the Duke of Tak.  When the Golden City was about to fall under relentless attack of the Burmese army, the Duke of Tak, with just around a dozen of his trusted fighting men mounted their horses and cut through the Burmese lines, heading east. He passed through several  garrisons of Ayutthaya and succeeding in convincing Thai fighting men to join him as a new Thai army. He moved his army eastward until reaching a border stronghold of Ayutthaya known as Chandburi, which was close to Cambodia territory, now known as Chandburi Province.

With cavalrymen and foot soldiers in thousands, the Duke of Tak’s had tried to convince the governor of Chandburi to be on his side and help his campaign to regain Ayutthaya from the Burmese. But the Chandburi  governor was unconvinced. Without any other way, he laid siege of the Chandburi town but could not break the defense of the town. After a week of siege, Duke of Tak decided to make his last attack and ordered all of his troops to break all their rice pots so that they will have nothing to eat if they fail to enter the town and force the Chandburi governor to surrender.

The final push of Taksin’s army succeeded as planned. So Chandaburi became a part of Taksin’s new-found power bases.  Reuniting Thai people under his leaderships was a success. The strength of his manpower grew significantly after only one year of peace.  Taksin moved his army down to the Chao Phya River Basin and founded his new kingdom at the west side of Chao Phya River opposite a community known as Bangkok. Taksin named his new territory Thonburi and called himself King of Thonburi. But Thai people remember him as King Taksin the Great. His reign lasted for 14 years from 1768 to 1782. It's the shortest period as a kingdom with only one king in the history of the Thai nation. His death at 58 was very tragic for a great Thai leader who bravely fought many wars with Burma and successfully rebuilt the Thai nation from the ashes of Ayutthya. 

During King of Thonburi’s reign Thailand regained its territory back from Burma and succeeded in a war with Cambodia and Laotian states in 1769 to regain their loyalty to Thai king as in the Ayutthaya Period.  The Thai nation became a great power again on the central heartland of this Golden Land known as Suvarnabhumi. Thailand during King Taksin's reign stretched its power up north to regain the loyalty of the Lanna  Kingdom (Chiengmai and other sister cities then) and also won the loyalty of several southern Muslim states in the Malay Peninsula  as far as Pattani and Trengganu including the small Penang Island. Trengganu and Penang are now part of the present day Malaysia.

 Chao Phya Chakri and his younger brother, Bunma, who were based at Rajburi, a southwestern border town, close to Burma, after the fall of Ayutthaya, decided to join force with Taksin at Chonburi and Chao Phya Chakri became King of Thonburi’s Commander-in-chief  with the name of Chao Phya Mahakasatsuek and his brother became deputy commander by the name of Chao Phya Surasi.

The two top warriors of the Thonburi Kingdom, with a large army spent almost 10 years subjugating former Ayutthya’s vassal states of two Laotian kingdoms at Luang Prabang and Vientiane as well as Cambodia from 1771 to 1781. After receiving news of rebellion against King Taksin, Chao Phya Mahakasatsuek and Chao Phya Surasi headed back to Thonburi with their troops. Chao Phya  Mahakasatsuek was offered by King Taksin’s court officials to take over as the new King of Thonburi as King Taksin went into insanity as claimed by his courtiers and the rebellion leaders. He accepted and moved the city to Bangkok opposite the Thonburi Palace of King Taksin and started a new dynasty known as the House of Chakri. Bangkok became the capital city of Ratanakosin Era of Thailand known to outsiders as The Kingdom of Siam. The former Chao Phya Mahakasatsuek made himself the First King of Siam known as Somdej Phra Buddhayodfa Chulaloke or Rama I. His brother Boonma or Chao Phya Surasi assumed the title of Somdej Phra Bovorn Raj Chao Maha Surasihanart Krom Phra Rajwang Borworn Sathanmongkol or the Front Palace Vice-Roy.

History has it that King Taksin was executed for his insanity.  No one knew exactly how King Taksin was executed.

The story of King Taksin is told to let the readers understand how the red shirts link their plan to stage a massive demonstration on the coming July 27 under a code name Taksin 2. Some of Thaksin core leaders have tried to say that Thaksin might have been a reincarnation of King Taksin because the two names and similar pronunciations. Thaksin is Sansakrit word for “south” while Taksin came form the King’s former position as the governor of Tak, now a province in the lower northern region of Thailand.

Now you understand the code name of the red shirts to topple Abhisit from his premiership and their intention to create massive chaos in Bangkok and other places. Their plan is, according to publicly announced, to start a chaotic condition so that Abhisit can continue to sit as the PM but cannot run this country in an effective way. The plan calls for disturbances in the parliament and on the streets to disrupt government operations in whatever way they would like to do.

It can be called a rebellion plan because it included organizing big demonstration in 4 provinces in the Northeast namely Nakornratsima, Kalasin, Udornthani and Nakorn Phanom to support the core demonstration in Bangkok. The plan is also to instigate border conflicts with neighbouring Burma, Cambodia and the increase in insurgency in the three southern-most provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathivas.

There will be hunting teams to capture PM Abhisit, President of Privy Council, Gen. Prem Tinsulanonda, Deputy PM Suthep, the Minister Attached to the PM Office, Satit Wongnongtoey,  Mr. Theptai Senphong, a personal spokesman of PM Abhisit, and all PAD leaders as well as Mr. Suriyasai Takasila, now secretary-general of New Politics Party, and PAD’s active supporters, Lt. Wing Cmdr. Prasong Soonsiri, former secretary-general of National Security Council, Dr. Pramote Nakorntup, ex-professor at Thammasat University and one of PAD popular guest speakers, Dr. Jermsak Pinthong, an active TV political commentator at ASTV and the state-owned Channel 11 (NBT) and Piya Malakul Na Ayutthaya, a well-known publisher of Dichun Magazine. The plan does not say in detail what hunting of those people exactly means. But the grapevine has it that assassination or kidnapping can be equally a possibility.

There will be an organising of armed small units within urban guerilla groups with an ability to rapidly move about from place to place to play hide-and-seek with the government. So the plan looks like to be a coordinated rebellion movements to destabilize Thailand to the point that Thaksin can come back to Thailand without any legal obligations to deal with and getting back his rights to be in politics again.

As a side strategy to get HM the King involved in the political game, there is a plan to collect names and signatures of one million people over the country to petition the King for Thaksin’s amnesty. This is a gimmick of Thaksin for blaming HM King as his antagonist if the King, on a legal basis, cannot do as the red shirts’ demand in their petition. This is an open secret all well-informed people in Thailand would believe.

Actually, amnesty is a legal tool for a head of state to exercise his power to solve a legal problem involving a large number of people being forced to breach certain legal rulings under abnormal circumstances such as military desertion of duties in time of war. Amnesty is viewed as an act to forget “criminal offenses” committed during a time of war to soldiers and officers of surrendered forces or prisoners of war such as the amnesty granted by the US President Andrew Johnson in 1865 to the Union military deserters as well as soldiers and generals of the Confederate Army after their surrender to the Union Army at the end of the American Civil War. US military deserters and draft dodgers during the Vietnam War were granted amnesty by President Carter in 1977

As a legal tradition, amnesty is granted before a legal proceeding against a criminal offender would start, such as an amnesty granted to Ex-US President Richard Nixon by President Gerald Ford.  An amnesty granted to a criminal offender under corruption charges, in particular a corrupt politician, is unheard of.

In my entry posted to this blog in May 1, 2009, I wrote this:

The post-Vietnam War debate over the pros and cons in the granting of amnesty to both draft dodgers and deserters became a political hot potato and also caused a serious social rift in the US. But the full, complete and unconditional amnesty for the Vietnam War draft dodgers and military deserters was finally granted by President Jimmy Carter in 1977. The purpose was to defuse the rising social tension and bring to a close the legal antagonism in American society. Besides, it would be a very big task and time-consuming legal process to prosecute nearly 100,000 draft evaders and military deserters.

In our own internal conflict during the threat of communist insurgency in the Northeast and lower northern region, Gen. Prem Tinsulanonda, Thailand’s ex-premier, in 1980 made his announcement of his government’s policy hailed as a bold move in using reconciliatory policy to end the most bitter conflict Thailand had ever experience during the post-Vietnam War period. The policy known as PM Office Order No. 66/23 Re: The Policy for Winning the Fight against Communism aimed to use reconciliatory political actions as priority over military operations at bringing peace back to Thailand. The political actions included calling for all active members of the Communist Party of Thailand to lay down their arms and join the government as the Participants in the Development Process of the Thai Nation.

Gen. Prem’s political strategy was a success beyond expectation, making several years of internal conflict coming to an end in a peaceful style. The students were allowed to return to their studies and many of them went on to finish their studies and took further education abroad. We can regard the 66/23 policy as Thailand’s broadest amnesty to those involved in internal conflict. It was supposed to facilitate reconciliation in which the crime of sedition was rather forgotten than forgiven. Such crime against the state deserves capital punishment under the law of the land and it would continue to be so. Condoning or forgiveness over such a crime is impossible in any legal framework in any country. 

Do you think a million names could change a basic legal principle just to help a highly corrupt politician to be free from his guilt of betrayal to the Thai people and the wheel of bad karma?


Read comment

comment 140
notdisappointed date : 11/07/2009 time : 20.23

For Ian. maxwell and pj who are in denial that a Royal pardon can be done to release their hero from his exile.

"Thaksin ends trip around South Pacific and come to roost in Dubai
By The Nation
Published on July 11, 2009"

"The Corrections Department, the primary agency in charge of processing pardon petitions, yesterday released a report saying the Criminal Procedural Code was clear on the issue.

A convicted offender must comply with the verdict and serve time before becoming eligible for a royal pardon.

In Thaksin's case, he is a fugitive who fled the country, and his graft verdict was read in absentia.

Articles 259 and 260 of the code make it clear Thaksin has no grounds for a pardon unless he decides to surrender himself and begin serving his two-year prison term."

So what do you think guys; is it proper for the reds to petition HMK when there is no protocol, procedure, or precess. What you want is for HMK is thrash the constitution ignoring the rule of law so that thaksin can be given a pardon. This is a selfish act on the part of reds, thaksin, and Ian, maxwell, and pj.

pj who will not even answwer the question in any wwa, shape or form. Com'on pj put your ideals where your mouth is. Pussy!
comment 139
notdisappointed date : 10/07/2009 time : 20.23

re. 132, I hope that we all can now see the 'base' character and instinct of this person we call 'deceitful steven(sin)'. His vile and crude character has been infecting the nation forum for many years now. No amount of cleansing and hygeine will eradicate his vileness and profanity.
comment 138
noonin date : 08/07/2009 time : 19.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Lost in translation again!
comment 137
noonin date : 08/07/2009 time : 19.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

I got it as push back, be backward.
comment 136
bzzzzzBee date : 08/07/2009 time : 16.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/beehive

C135 ian ... my neighbour says it means ..... intrude, butt in, push
comment 135
Ian date : 08/07/2009 time : 03.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

This word "suerk" seems to be cropping up a lot lately, I have a female Thai friend visiting this weekend, is it a polite word for me to ask her to translate, is it simpy the opposite of "krengjai"?

ND, as to sex, these days I find the contemplation usually more satisfying than the consummation
But note I did say usually
comment 134
BangkokRay date : 07/07/2009 time : 22.53

steven,
Our mutual friend prefers the Myanmar form of government.
comment 133
notdisappointed date : 07/07/2009 time : 21.33

Oh so hurtful your remarks are steven(sin) - NOT!

Who would ever care what you write except another person who is as inane and nonsensical as you?

OH, as I wrote that to Ian as a personal commentary your butting in is called "SUERK"! But you do love to SUERK in everything that has nothing to do wioth your own country. Why don't you compare for us the democracy you have in malaysia and how it could be a example for democracy in Thailand.
comment 132
Steven_ date : 07/07/2009 time : 20.49

nd maybe you should go have sex with Kant. From behind he is waiting for you
comment 131
Steven_ date : 07/07/2009 time : 20.47

Comment 130
This nd is not just a clown and moron and one who is nuts that loves to see the people, country politics and government goes down the drain and become a failed state. All his rhetoric regarding the political situation are just a hobby for the fun of it, not for the greater good of the people and country. Everybody beware of his comment only a hobby only for fun. Where is that seriousness like WDS, Krajog who posted their comments for the people to realise that there are serious flaws in the current government and political situation and how to correct it. Pissed to you nd clown
comment 130
notdisappointed date : 07/07/2009 time : 20.27

Ian, hopefully you won't get upset with this but to me sex is a favorite past-time that I endeavor to past the time all the time and politics is a hobby that I indulge in.
comment 129
Ian date : 07/07/2009 time : 18.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Krajog, people seem to get more excited over politics than over sex, strange.
But it is also like football fans, the opposing teams always wins because they get away with fouls, the referee is biased, the linesman is blind and the opposing team was lucky.
comment 128
krajog date : 07/07/2009 time : 16.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Al c14, Ian c125

Al, thanks for your kind words. You're quite a rational man. When you mentioned about Thaksin and monetray policy, I couldn't help thinking about Thaksin and BoT. The names of M.R. Chatu Mongol and M.R. Pridiyathorn and their links to Thaksin popped up in my mind. I couldn't stop half way. So I recounted the controversial land deal to support your opinion. I think we are talking about facts, not fantasies. And it's time to move on. Thanks again.

Ian, I don't want to debate about Thaksin with anyone. It's not my purpose to get into a controversy with any blogger here and other weblogs. You know, I have not read the comments in the any piece of news at Manager Online for a long time. There are nothing else but only Thaksin bashing.

I think it's time to stop our senceless debating who's wrong, who's right. It becomes too tedious to me already.

I would like to sincerely thank everyone who participated by making comments.
comment 127
notdisappointed date : 07/07/2009 time : 15.45

Ian, now you've found out my secret!

Sometimes it's fun to be nonsensical and irrevalent. have to keep up with some of our freindly bloggers.
comment 126
notdisappointed date : 07/07/2009 time : 15.43

Ian, HMK will not make any pronouncements about amnesty petition because it has nothing to do with him. It is some action that has no proper procedure nor protocol and cannot be considered according to the constitution or law of the land.

This is my point, that maxwell tries to twist and distort. This action has no basis, no legs to stand on and is done to embarrass Monarchy and create further divisiveness. veera one of the leaders of the reds pushing for this, was in fact deigned a Royal amnesty after he was incarcerated for LM. He went through the proper protocols and procedures. he knows full well, as does maxwell, that this scam is nothing else but to make trouble.

K. Krajog, I know the former owners of this Rachadapisek land, the former owners of Erawan Trust, and Erawan Insurance; we were going to do a deal at the time in 1990 just before Tom Yung Goong hit. The land was appraised at over Baht 3.0 Billion.

Khunying got a big discount after ten years it would seem! And the FIDF rolled over with their tongues hanging out to have their belly scratched by thaksin and pojie.
comment 125
Ian date : 07/07/2009 time : 04.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Expresso, you actually brought a grin to my face this time, you couldn't bash a jelly with a sledge hammer, but keep on trying I enjoy a good joke

This is fun, I can see now why ND enjoys it
comment 124
Al date : 07/07/2009 time : 03.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/albert

Krajog c120

Khun Krajog, thank you very much for your comprehensive reply! It's very interesting although in the second part a little bit leading off the starting question of HA_HA.

Did you realize that we are now again back to that Thaksin topic we wanted to avoid for a while? I would have some remarks to your second part – but I think we shouldn't go deeper into that matter. I know this is your sensitive point. Actually Thaksin is not interesting for me. I try to see things more from the present needs. But I understand what you want to say.

I realized that you are never sarcastic, never insulting or condescending, never prevaricating, always straight and always really trying your best to give a good answer. You are really polite and treating your partners with good manners. I remember times when you must have been hurt – but you never payed back with the same coin. I can't express how much I miss more people like you here! You've my deep respect!
comment 123
expresso date : 06/07/2009 time : 23.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

"But don't debate with me, I'm just a simple Farang who can spot a stitch up when he sees one."

Hell you don't!

You still have a face to speak after your comments to Khun krajog in his blog, ".....standstill"?...You have no face, but I expected none!
comment 122
expresso date : 06/07/2009 time : 23.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Wow, so many comments here I have no time to read.

It's time for some bashing I think.
comment 121
Ian date : 06/07/2009 time : 23.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Krajog, Might I suggest you visit the Nation blog and discuss your latest comment with Ink. He is another well informed and educated Thai who will argue with facts and references the opposite of what you state.
You both put your cases well but as I cannot read Thai I cannot really tell which of you is nearer the truth.
But don't debate with me, I'm just a simple Farang who can spot a stitch up when he sees one
comment 120
krajog date : 06/07/2009 time : 21.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Al c116

In today fast-moving financial world and the problems arising from mismanagement of resources, any policy that not flexible enough would go into a wrong direction easily.

You’re right. I think it happened in every country, including the US, UK and Germany, where we used to think they were immune to economic ills.

You’re right again on fiscal policy, Parameter of the policy is important like you have said. If the setting is wrong or based on bad judgment, the country would head to economic disaster beyond rescue. Look at Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe as its president.

When Thailand had a good prime minister and capable finance minister, the autonomy of monetary policy could be seen. We call the central bank a regulatory agency, having full authority to regulate the money market in an effective way. Money did not sit idle in banks and inflation rate was kept below 5% and the country’s balance of payments showing a large surplus. We used to have a very honest man, M.R. (Momrajwongse) Chatu Mongol Sonakul sat as the governor of the Bank of Thailand from May 1998 to May 2001.

He came from the Ministry of Finance as permanent secretary. When Thaksin became prime minister for the first time in Feb 2001, he wanted to change certain monetary rules to suit his business interest. But M.R. Chatu Mongol refused to yield to Thaksin’s pressure. He was then removed as BoT governor and replaced by M.R. Pridiyathorn Devakul, who was at the time president of the Export and Import Bank of Thailand, a big leap from a small state-run bank. It’s became Talk-of-the Town issue.

M.R. Chatu Mongkol decided to quit his civil service to be on his own.

You see, Thaksin did everything to break rules and ethical standards for his own benefits. Do you know what M.R. Pridyathorn did for Thaksin back in 2003?

M.R. Pridiyathorn, as head of the Financial Institution Development Fund (FIDF, an fund under BoT), authorized the sale of the controversial Ratchadapisek land plot by bidding which resulted in Thaksin wife being the winner with a highest bidding price of Bht770 million for a 33 rais plot (about 13 acres). The price of the land was appraised at Bht 2,749 in Aug. 1995 when the FIDF took the land from a bankrupted finance company.

In 2007, the Attorney-General Office filed a case against Thaksin as the first defendant and Khunying Pojaman, his wife, as second defendant with the Supreme Court for Criminal Offence for Political Office Holders for breach of the Anti-Corruption Law and the Criminal Code. The Attorney-General Office accused Thaksin, as then the prime minister, had signed papers to ratify the land purchase by his wife (as spouse), a legal requirement for any deal that based on documentary agreement.

The court found Thaksin guilty as changed and convicted him for 2 year imprisonment but the court found his wife not guilty.

Another fact you should know. The bidding was set on Dec. 16, 2003. There was no minimum price fixed as usually done in the government bidding process for sale of government properties. But the bidders had to pledge a Bht 100 million as a bidding guarantee.

There were only two other bidders, the colluding bidders, came to present their bids to make it a rule-abiding process. The sale contract was scheduled on Dec. 30. 2003 and Dec. 31 and the New Year Day were official holidays. The problem was the special fee for land transfer in a debt restructure plan at 0.01% of the sale/purchase price would stay applicable until the last official day on Dec. 30.

But in a well-planned move, the cabinet meeting on Nov. 25 had issued a resolution that Dec. 31, 03 was declared as official working day and Jan 2, 04 as a holiday to compensate for making the New Year Eve an official working Day.

On Jan. 2, 04, the Land Dept. announced that the 0.01% fee was extended further to the end of 2004.

The usual fee rate for land transfer was 2%. If Thaksin’s wife to pay 2% because the 0.01% not applicable after the end of 2003, she had to pay the fee at Bht 15.4 million. At 0.01% she would pay the fee at only Bht 77,000, a difference of Bht 15.323 million. That was why the Land Dept had decided postpone the last date of 0.01% to the end of 2004. It’s smart move by a government agency to help the wife of a Prime Minister who was and is still one of Thailand’s list of the Richest.

Well, Al, the information above was publicly disclosed, not a heresy or groundless accusation.
comment 119
Ian date : 06/07/2009 time : 20.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I'm glad to see the temperature is dropping at last
As to a birthday speech by HMQ that might not be as effective as one by HMK.
I realise he is infirm, can he not speak less formally sitting in a comfortable chair, does protocol allow this?
comment 118
notdisappointed date : 06/07/2009 time : 17.54

bb, I agree with you; perhaps HMQ will make some comments during her B'day speech.

br, you've settled down. Good on you! deep breaths help. Welcome.
comment 117
krajog date : 06/07/2009 time : 17.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c113

Thanks. Yes, forget about Thaksin and AV for a while to clear your head and mine.

I used to work in an economic research department in BBL many years ago. So, I had to read a lot of monetary and public finance data to write semi-and annual reports for the bank to be published and sent to correspondent banks all over the world and the local media.
comment 116
Al date : 06/07/2009 time : 17.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/albert

K. Krajog, c112

K, Krajog, the essential facts of that what you are describing (as usual in an admirable way, my compliment) are correct. But the result leads a little bit into the wrong direction.

Monetary policy
The role of the government in monetary policy is larger as it appears here. The autonomy of monetary policy is an ideal – which is – sad to say – regularly undermined in most countries. I don't know if and to what extend this was the case during the Thaksin administration. I just know that there are more than a few official and also unofficial instruments doing this. The worst is taking influence on the staffing of the central bank. If Thaksin was as he is so often described here – then I don't have any doubt that he did all to reach this influence also on monetary policy.

Fiscal policy
About fiscal policy we mustn't lose many words. I think it's not questionable that a government can ruin the economy of a country by setting the wrong parameters and the underlying conditions in fiscal policy. By implication of this fact we've also no reason to doubt that setting the correct parameters can raise the economy of a country what leads us directly to the starting point of this consideration: HA_HA's suggestion that the wealth of a country has something to do with the government.

Sorry for my quite short reply - I don't have much time at the moment. Sorry. I hope my contribution doesn't lead off the main topic here.
comment 115
BangkokRay date : 06/07/2009 time : 17.13

Krajog, #112,
Thanks for your response. I realize you never directly attributed the need for the 800Bn loan to Thaksin, but let's face it, you do like to arrtibute many of Thailand's ills to Mr T. Contrary to the mindset of many here, I am not a die-hard Thaksin fan. I recognize what he gave to and took from this society.
In the months that I have read your blogs, I have noticed that you eloquently identify a situation that presents a problem to overcoming an ill that this country has. You somehow pull Mr T into the equation, whether it was a result of his administration or not. Others here do similar, some more than others. I enjoy reading most of your blogs and will likely continue to disagree on many issues. However, if there wasn't anything to disagree about, we'de have cooking and movie blogs only to choose from.
ILast thought. Devaluation of the Baht would do a great deal to improve the economic situation and would likely decrease the need for such a large stimulus package.
FWIW: I think Obama's stimulus package is worthless.....let alone VERY expensive.
comment 114
bzzzzzBee date : 06/07/2009 time : 16.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/beehive

ian, i believe His Majesty will speak when the time come for him to be speak and be heard .... but not at this juncture. if he speaks now ... his words will be twisted and turned to suit the fancy.
comment 113
HA_HA date : 06/07/2009 time : 16.05

wow, khun krajog let's forget Thaksin for a while.

I just want to say you're so knowledgeable. You know about History, Politics, Thai language, Finance ... How?

I wish I could be like you.
comment 112
krajog date : 06/07/2009 time : 15.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Steven c102, Bkkray C103, HA_HA c106

Steven, my friend, I accept your apologies. We should do as the lawyers do in court, professionally.
I've been living through many coups in Thailand. I can assure you that no decent Thai people rich or poor or Chao Ban (rural folks) would like to a military coup taking place every time there is a political crisis. Some of coups happened because a PM was about to replace an Army c-in-c. We have learned from military governments, Field-Marshal P. Phibulsonggram, F-M Sarit Thanarat and F_M Thanom Kittikhachorn, Adm, Sa-ngad Chaloryoo and Gen. Suchinda Kraprayoon. We had 3 bloody incidents known as the Great Day of National Grief or the Black Oct 14 (73) protesting against Thanom authorirarian regime, the Bloody Oct.9 (76) at Thammasat University and the Black May (17-18, 92) protesting against Gen. Suchinda becoming PM against people's wishes. Many protesters got killed thousands of them injured and disappeared by police and military suppression units. The 06 coup by Gen. Sonthi was uncleared about who was really behind it. Some blamed Gen. Prem for it. But some sources said Thaksin was about to replace Gen. Sonthi with another General close to Thaksin.

Please stop thinking that Thai people in general agree with every military coup. We all want real and clean democratic system. Who would be naive enough to like being governed by a military regime. Think a little bit harder. Don't be too obsessed with the conspiracy of the elite, royalists and the palace behind the 06 coup.
...........................................................
Bkkray c103

Where you get the idea that I blamed Thakson for the need of 800 billion baht internal debt (govt bonds, not loan)? I've never said that. Please be a little bit fair to me. Everyone knows that the downturn in Thai economy was part of the global financial crisis caused by the burst of SUBPRIME bubbles that gripped the US in late last year. AV governmenr needs the money to support the economy apart from the budget which has just passed by the parliament. It makes sense to people who understand that the Thai economy needed a large economic stimulus package same as President Obama has done for the US economy or PM Gordon Brown has done for the British economy. Thaksin has nothing to do with it. Why do you think I've blamed Thaksin on the 800 billion debt package? Please make comments as like it. I don't mind reading your comments that based on reasoning, not on make believe.

HA_HA c106

A country's economy is managed chiefly on two core systems that bases on 1) fiscal policy which involves many disciplines in public finance(taxation, revenue from different sources, budget expenditure,public borrowings, etc) and 2) monetary policy which involves money supply, capital market, banking and finance (private sector), money in circulation. stability of the country's currency, balance of payments, foreign direct investment, import and export control, etc.
Fiscal policy is the sole authority of the finance minister and his team of public finance experts. PM is not requires to draw up the fiscal policy and not responsible directly to the country's fiscal policy. What PM can do is to set the objectives of the country's development and how much money is needed for the development plan. The monetary policy is the responsibility of the country's central bank. The rise and fall of a country's foreign reserve depends on the monetary policy. You can say that the high level of foreign reserve was a success of the Thaksin government when the Indian Ocean tsunami hit the 5 southern provinces but not, Thaksin alone.

All public debts are to be serviced (interest payment) and paid back with tax payer money. That's the regime of public finance. The debts are used to make the economic going well and achieve a good return on investment with come in the form of the rise in tax revenue from import and export and income tax. Internal debts help make a huge amount of idle money in the banks to be used for boosting the country's production of goods and service. It's a win-win situation. In the US the monetary policy is managed by the US Federal Reserve System with 12 Federal Reserve Banks in different parts of the country, covering all large cities from the east coast to the west coast and middle America. President Obama has no role in the Federal Reserve System but he involves in the fiscal policy which is handled by the US treasury Dept. Both fiscal policy and monetary are for professionals to handle, not politicians.

bkkray, sorry, a mini novel again!!!
comment 111
HA_HA date : 06/07/2009 time : 13.13

c108, mr. happyjack

couldn't agree more with you that AV is backed by equally amoral people. it's these HYPROCRITE that I cann't stand.

c110, i don't understand. my english ability is limit which is frustrating sometimes that i cann't express my opinion, but is good sometimes because i don't understand when people being sarcastic to me...haha
comment 110
happyjack date : 06/07/2009 time : 12.59

Ha Ha,issues related to Drug Companies,i think you really are qualified on matters economic.Give me an Aspirin Alice.
comment 109
BangkokRay date : 06/07/2009 time : 12.23

HA_HA,
Just to set the record straight, the loan amount is 800,000,000,000 baht(800 Billion), not 800,000,000(Million).
Remember, there are many politicians eating from the pie these days. A mere 800 Mil would hardly be enough to wet thier thirst.
comment 108
happyjack date : 06/07/2009 time : 12.18

I will make my thoughts more than Clear.To me Thaksin is a Man who fooled the Simple.A Unethically person, and Anti Monarchy.He was elected by Cheating, giving street legit to a Coup.Iv known his track record for 35 Years.At face value.That's it,ill enter no further debate.A.V.s good but backed by equally amoral people.
comment 107
HA_HA date : 06/07/2009 time : 10.48

Sorry, Steven, Al, MisThePoint forgot to take his medication again. GO BACK TO YOUR CAGE ...kick butt.

mr. Steven, thank you for speaking for hundred thousands of REDs and those who support Thaksin. You speak their mind.

Al, if you want to join just jump in. Then you're not "S..." anymore because it will become your business too 5555 ...
comment 106
HA_HA date : 06/07/2009 time : 10.34

Thank you for your explanation, Khun Krajog. I admire you in-depth about all these.

Do you say the wealth of the country had nothing to do with Thaksin or his policies? Then whatever Abhisith did or didn’t do will have nothing to do also. It’s up to us, chao-baan ability to repay the 800,000 million bath loan. This is scary. I’m just a poor chao-baan.

I think the country wealth has much to do with the government policy. I was working on issue relating to drug companies. Thaksin aimed to make Thailand centre of Biotechnology Research. This is the emerging business while Telecommunication and IT going down. Singapore, Malaysia, India are all trying to be this.

At that time many big drug companies like GSk, had plan to invest in Thailand but Thaksin was ousted before this happened. Then the Kor.Mor.Chor’s Public Health Minister threatened to enforce ‘compulsory licensing’. Now we never heard from these companies. Singapore probably got it.


Now about 2-3 digit lottery. Thaksin has policy, if one’s think the administration of income is not right then we can make it right, right? Nothing can be perfect right away. For example, Suvannabhumi Airport it was criticized that the government hurried to open it saying there’re still many problems. But only when we open and operate we’re able to see the real problem and can solve it, right?



Now this 2-3 digit lottery, the decision YES or NO has been postponed about 4-5 times in the 6-month of this government. I, myself, support this because the government can use the money to improve the country.

But if the government think NO, we are Buddhist (bullshXt) country we don’t support gambling, listing of alcohol companies, prostitute … then they should just say NO, and start getting rid of underground lottery, shut down bars, and prohibit selling of alcohol, right.

I never heard they say anything about getting rid of underground lottery. I doubt if they’re too afraid to offend underground lottery mafias. I think most Thai know who the biggest mafia is.
comment 105
notdisappointed date : 06/07/2009 time : 10.13

steven(sin) Bullshit - "I am more concern is the legitimate rights of the people and their rights to a true democracy." You are so concerned that they have their rights that you say its alright that a couple of thousand Thais have to give up their rights and die during the WOD; and Tak Bai. What were those rights you were refering too again??
comment 104
notdisappointed date : 06/07/2009 time : 10.11

Ian, I think that px had already posted the link. And you can find it probably on the Ministry of Justice website regarding the penal system.
comment 103
BangkokRay date : 06/07/2009 time : 10.10

krajog, #101,
A wordy response, but not an answer to my question. Maybe a short novel blaming Thaksin for the need to obtain the loan is in order here.
comment 102
Steven_ date : 06/07/2009 time : 10.00

My apologies if my comments of your condoning of the criminality of Osama etc etc etc was extreme and out of phrase. Just to remind you that I do not love Thaksin but what I am more concern is the legitimate rights of the people and their rights to a true democracy. Yes everybody has heard of all the allegations against Thaksin that you have mentioned but then it does not need a coup to settle these minor crises. You cannot have a coup every time there is a political crisis. This is what is happening in Thailand for the past 76 years with more than 18 coups. I did not blame the people and also not Gen Boonyaratakalin ( he is just a pawn) on the coup but the military, elite and royalist because it is them that is trying to contain the power of the people whose choice that is in conflict with the military, elite and royalist will then be taken away. Like you said, if Thaksin is bad, then his karma will do its duty. Anyway hopefully that any allegations must come with evidence like you mentioned earlier, lets talk like a lawyer isn’t it
comment 101
krajog date : 06/07/2009 time : 09.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

bkkray c92

Are you kidding me, asking the question?

The 800 billion baht internal public debt planned by the government to boost up the Thai economy was debated in the House and Senate. It's not a loan by any means.

The opposition grilled the government in every way they could think of to shoot down the decree for 400 billion baht and the bill for another 400 billion. Both passed smoothly in the House and Senate. Why you ask me for justification? It's not make sense at all. Happyjack suggested that the idea come from a bar girl and you may agree with him. It's your business. Happyjack always loves to joke around as his name suggests, a happy jack-in-the box. Thanks. It's good that you said what you have in yourmind. So that, people know your stance.
comment 100
happyjack date : 06/07/2009 time : 08.22

C92.Ray,They got the idea for the Loan,from a Bar Girl chatting up a Ferang.
comment 99
Ian date : 06/07/2009 time : 05.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, 94. So are these "proper procedures and protocols" publishe anywhere on the internet, in English of course:-)
comment 98
Al date : 06/07/2009 time : 02.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/albert


comment 97
notdisappointed date : 06/07/2009 time : 02.25

c96 - SUERK!
comment 96
Al date : 06/07/2009 time : 02.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/albert

ND c78
That's not fair - I want to join...
comment 95
notdisappointed date : 06/07/2009 time : 01.53

Ian, the King chats to his subjects but it's not about politics. It's about the weather, the crops, the irrigation, the everyday things that concern the farmers, not politics.

Now that the King in invalided he has not the ability to travel and see his children so it's a treat for everyone when they are able to see their King up and about. It's a treat for us to see his smile.
comment 94
notdisappointed date : 06/07/2009 time : 01.48

Ian, here you are.

HMK cannot make any commnets about this because he is supposed to be "above' politics. His Privy Council is also not in a position to make any statements since the reds have been attacking its head.

It is the responsibility of those persons involved to ensure that what they do is according to proper procedures and protocol; it is not up to the King to tell them that what they do is improper. If you respect and revere the King it falls upon you to ensure that whatever petiton or Royal favor is requested is done in strict accordance to the established forms and procedures.

This is my point and it is a sensitive and crucial point because it shows the thinking of those who make a request. That's why I am adamant about getting to the underlying thinking of both maxwell and pj in this matter.

maxwell has waffled on this point conditioning his response as a lawyer would. A

And pj stays quiet afraid to make his feelings known. Just in your words 'obsessing' on the coup.
comment 93
Ian date : 06/07/2009 time : 01.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Noonin, ND, 73, 74. I accept all that you say, this is why I am puzzled, as I said earlier, if the King constitutionally cannot get involved, why cannot he simply say so? Is it an insult for the King either publicly or through the Privy Council to simply say this petition is pointless as he cannot accept it?
The British Queen in her annual address to the Nation at Christmas states her thoughts and opinions, or do you remember her Guildhall speech on 24 November 1992, Her "Annus horribilis" speech?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_horribilis
I think many of the problems in Thailand are this barrier between King and people.
I have seen pictures of the King when he was younger walking through fields and villages, chatting to the common people, when did this change, when did he get removed to this untouchable pinnacle?
comment 92
BangkokRay date : 06/07/2009 time : 00.59

Krajog, #91,
How then can you explain the 800,000,000,000 bht loan that the current govt is requesting? Does this make sense to you?
comment 91
krajog date : 05/07/2009 time : 23.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c69

Thanks for having a positive view on my comment.

The pile-up of a country's foreign reserve is largely due to the surplus in the that nation's current account in the balance of payments, particularly the rise in export and net capital transfer such as foreign direct investment and money transfer from Thai workers abroad. It depends on monetary policy at the time. Monetary policy was the work of central bank of that country and the stability of its currency in the FX market. In the case of Thailand, it's the Bank of Thailand's role.

During the early years of Thaksin first term as PM, Thailand enjoyed a steady export growths of nearly 8-10% a year. Thailand used to experience such a steady economic growth in early 90s. We have strong foreign reserve then. The PM like Thaksin did not involves in monetary policy. He was more concern with fiscal policy because it concerns government budget and public investment expenditure where the real money are for politicians to draw out to manage infrastructure construction and local investment in road construction other projects. Thailand at the time was just came out of Financial meltdown of 1997. Do you know that the revenue of Huay Bon Din or 2-3 digit lottery initiated by Thaksin was not required by its law to pass to the government coffer. So, Thaksin had a free hand to use the profit at will for political purposes such as sending the children of TRT canvassers to study abroad, There was no selection process for qualified receivers of the scholarship for study abroad. So, many students fail to get through their studies.
comment 90
noonin date : 05/07/2009 time : 23.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Krajog,
The previous comments say it all, there are fools out there.
The good news is they are not Thai and as such have no idea how to conduct themselves.
Such people will continue to desecrate this Kingdom.
comment 89
HA_HA date : 05/07/2009 time : 23.04

Pat Pat, MisThePoint...you took your medication, right?

Yeah, you should ignor people sometimes. Don't take everything too seriously ...better for your mental health...555

pat..pat.
comment 88
BangkokRay date : 05/07/2009 time : 23.04

krajog, #87,
Your obsession with Thaksin is Sooooooooooooooo
obvious. Your novels make that so evident. Believe if Thaksin died today, you would disappear or commit suicide.
comment 87
krajog date : 05/07/2009 time : 22.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Steven c68

Do you really think I condone criminality of Osama, assassins of the 4 US presidents Lebanon bombers and other inhuman acts? Or I'm out of my mind to see wrongs as rights?

My goodness! You seem to be so innocent so much so that you could not understand what I have tried to piont out that things always have two sides. One for winner, another for loser. It's "you're wrong, I'm right" thing. You love Thaksin, so you condone his behaviours no matter what.You said as if ordinary Thai people, not in politics, nor having powerto bring Thaksin to the justice system. Military coups were conducted by military people, What we can do best is to demonstrate against politicians like Thakson. You seems to innocently believe that Chakrapob's undergorund war plan has nothing to do with Thaksin. You seem to know nothing about Thaksin's buying people with big bundles of money such the 3 former Election Commisioners. Taxmen at the Revennue Dept. to waive him of tax on Shin Corp sale to Temasek. Giving of loan for buying his communication equipment to to Burma at very rate of interest. His abuse of power to help his wife buy the land at Ratchadapisek Road at a very low price. Bribing the court officials of two million baht and his lawyers being caught red-handed and had to serve 6 months jail term in 2008. People like me in Thailand cannot do anything to get Thaksin into criminal justice system. You seems to know nothing about Thaksin's influence over the whole police force. You want Thai people who do not fall into Thaksin's maney traps to sit out Thaksin's term as PM. The 2006 coup was the works of military people who could not sit still and do nothing to stop Thaksin's grand scheme to exploit Thailand's natural resouces. It's not the ordinary people work. Don't blame the coup on Thai people. Blame Gen, Sonthi Booyaratakalin for his impatience. Your love for Thaksin does not concern me. It's your own pleasure, not mine. I did nothing to attack you for your love of Thaksin. I just explain my points of view. Thaksin's bad karma will do its duty.
comment 86
notdisappointed date : 05/07/2009 time : 22.41

55 you are so guan teen na! ; )

Reminds me of someone I try to ignore on the forum.
comment 85
noonin date : 05/07/2009 time : 21.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Sorry no jokes allowed!
comment 84
noonin date : 05/07/2009 time : 21.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

GRRRRRRRR!
Not like pat pat.
comment 83
HA_HA date : 05/07/2009 time : 21.47

c81, GO TO YOUR CAGE TOO!

haha ...just kidding.
not you, noonin, pat ..pat.

:)
comment 82
noonin date : 05/07/2009 time : 21.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

comment 81

WOOF! WOOF!

Please be civilized.
comment 81
HA_HA date : 05/07/2009 time : 21.33

Hey MisThePoint ..it's time to take your medication. Now go back to your cage. Geez who let him out.

sorry for the commotion here na, khun krajog.

sorry Al, mad dog starts attacking anyone passing by.

everybody please stay away. ..5555
comment 80
noonin date : 05/07/2009 time : 21.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Comment 78
We posted at the same time.
I restate the King is above all this filthy positioning.
comment 79
noonin date : 05/07/2009 time : 21.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

comment 77
Correct, this is a political issue, it does not involve the King.
It seems some people do not understand the concept of Constitutional Monarchy.
Certainly not the red and yellows.
comment 78
notdisappointed date : 05/07/2009 time : 21.12

'guan teen 55'; that's why I said that you and Kant will get along famously. You both are good at 'GUAN TEEN'

See Al, 'guan teen55' and I can discuss our 'insider joke' together because he is a part of it. You are not, and never were, so don't "SUERK" in other people's business that is none of your concern.
comment 77
HA_HA date : 05/07/2009 time : 21.02

Hey, Mr. MisThePoint ... i didn't guan-teen khun krajog na.

I like only to guan-teen you ...haha...

--------------------------------------

Mr. Ian, Mr. MisThePoint is right about the King. We place the King above us, and above 'politics'. Our king never involves in Politics you know. Therefore, nobody should criticize the King. There is this LM law too.

Only the one who involves in politics is subjected to be scrutinized and criticized equally.
comment 76
wch date : 05/07/2009 time : 20.54

Let me talk about something future, near,
AV announced today that his government will continue 'land reform' and they will start initially on 30 trial places.

I think this is the effort to thwart earlier, the 'guerillar warfares'. The 30 test places are undoubtedly those places, ex-communist strongholds (my c42).

His policy is, instead giving out free land ownership title, but to give a community whole land nearby under joint ownership. This will prevent land hoarders as well as sell-and-move-out to city.
The land size is from 1000 to 2000 rai.

Guerillar warfare, the land is always the matter.
comment 75
noonin date : 05/07/2009 time : 20.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Comment 73

If a king truly loves his people, as I believe he does, has he not a moral right to speak out.

In a constitutional monarchy, the monarch cannot speak out.
If the monarch did speak out they would be claiming absolute monarchy.
In Britain Queen Victoria learnt this lesson and since then no British monarch has made a political statement.
Advice may be given to the prime minister, but that remains an off record conversation.
Publication of Queen Elizabeth's diaries would indeed make interesting reading.
Not any time soon!
comment 74
notdisappointed date : 05/07/2009 time : 20.38

Thanks Ian, but I said no matter how hard you try you can't convince of anything else. In this I am obsessed.

"This sounds inverted logic to me, a communist or republican would not make such a petition to a King, as such a petition reinforces the power of a King." It is not proper to make such a request to the King in this manner and in this situation. To go against protocol and proper procedure what you are doing is to use HMK to brush aside and override established forms and procedure when making any petition to HMK.

Don't you get it? You go on about tradition and your views but you don't get the point. The point is not the petition itself; it's the way that the reds go about doing it for their master that is wrong.
comment 73
Ian date : 05/07/2009 time : 20.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, perhaps I can clarify my thinking about your King by example. Throughout much of the last thousand years the nations of Europe were Christians, devote Christians who worshipped one God.
During this time, many nations fought one another, each nation prayed to God for his support and victory. Did they do wrong to do so, were such prayers an embarrassment to God?
When a nation lost, did it turn against God, lose love and respect for God? become non Christian?
This is my problem with the Thai attitude to their King, they love and respect him to the extent that many articles and Thais refer to him as an incarnated living God. Yet at the same time they wish him not to be involved in earthly matters.
If a king truly loves his people, as I believe he does, has he not a moral right to speak out.
If a father sees his children fighting do he not have a right and a desire to stop them fighting.
It is not a case of choosing one child over the other, it is simply a desire to see them cease fighting.
You and your friends seem to be saying that we should be free to fight each other without bothering our father, our king, with our problems.
Is this not the natural role of a father to try to resolve disputes amongst his children? Is it not therefore the case that you feel he might see some merit in your opponents' case.
It is too easy to say that Farangs cannot understand, many Farangs do understand, it is part of our History also,from the time of the God/kings of Egypt, the Pharoahs, right up to the modern Popes.
You try to say this petition is a communist or republican move, an attempt to discredit the King. This sounds inverted logic to me, a communist or republican would not make such a petition to a King, as such a petition reinforces the power of a King.
comment 72
notdisappointed date : 05/07/2009 time : 18.18

K. Krajog, please ignore 'guan teen 55'; his and steven(sin) are of the mentality that "the ends justify the means".

They subscribe to the recent poll that graft and corruption is acceptable as long as the people get their B30 health care; or one tambon one scholarship; or computers in schools where ther is no electricity; or innocent deaths fro thaksin's war on drugs; or deaths to protestors at Tak Bai and in front of parliament. Anything is alright as long as thaksin or his nominees do it.

Now everything is wrong because of the coup; it's the coup!
comment 71
notdisappointed date : 05/07/2009 time : 18.13

Ian, that’s why I keep asking pj and maxwell continually, what their views are concerning this petition for amnesty. pj uses his vacation as an excuse not to answer; and maxwell just dances around the issue because although my question is a simple one, their answer will show what their level of love, respect, honor, and reverence that they hold for my King.

All that pj has done is to pose ‘smartly’, in his U.S. cavalry uniform, in front of a large picture of Rama V in his restaurant, divorced from reality, in America. And maxwell in his fortress of solitude, condescends to make his opinions, distortions, one-sided angst, and political frustrations known from on high. Educated and not susceptible to lies and manipulation their answers will show to us where their loyalties lie. ‘guan teen’ 55, I have not asked because I know that his answer will be frivolous and cute, avoiding any semblance to reality.

(Deceitful) steven(sin) thaksin may have professed his loyalty to HMK and it still would be a lie. If he were truthful why hasn’t he denounced and renounced the shit coming out of jakrapop’s mouth. And why hasn’t he denounced or renounced da torpedoe’s comments during a red rally? Or why hasn’t he stopped his nominees in this petition to request a Royal amnesty for himself, when he knows that it is against protocol and is improper and could lead to further divisiveness?
comment 70
notdisappointed date : 05/07/2009 time : 18.04

Ian, please don’t take this as anything else but sincere and not meant to lessen your love and care for the country that you’ve chosen to retire in. However, there are some things that foreigners will not understand about Thais. One of them is that a majority of us truly love, respect, honor, and revere our King.

Beyond his enormous humanity; we place our King up above us, as we are literally; “as dust beneath his feet”. That any person or persons or group of persons try to denigrate him or connive to use him or his postion for their own selfish purposes is unacceptable to us, it is shocking to our beliefs and all that we hold dear regarding our King.

Of course you can make comparisons according to your own beliefs, traditions, logic, and culture; but for many of us Thais - there can is no comparison because we look at our King in a different light then foreigners do. Try as you might; you can’t convince us to think or feel any differently.

No law makes us feel this way, no law makes us revere him, and as well, we need no law to muzzle us to not make denigrating rmarks or comments about our King. We simply will not do it as a personal individual choice.
comment 69
HA_HA date : 05/07/2009 time : 17.36

c67, Khun Krajog

Thank you for being patient with me and for your reasonable information.

I just scanned through it. Anyway, I got your point that Thaksin have more money than those 76,000 million baht.

Again, I didn't say Thaksin is sparkling clean. The Anti Corruption Commission should investigate this to see how much he has and where did it come from.

Now I really doubt why did Thaksin got so so much money while the standard of living of the poor improved, the new air port was built and the road was built, the country debt was paid, and, during the Tsunami, it's also the first time the PM of Thailand could reject aide from abroad saying now we were able to help ourselves.

Why Thailand had so much money then during Thaksin????

Opposite to Chuan, honest, sparkling clean, no projects, no wrong (in fact many corruption too) ... and the poor people remained poor.

Just doubt.
comment 68
Steven_ date : 05/07/2009 time : 16.25

Krajog, comment 41

I am astonished at some of your comments. Some mere words from Chakrapob on the revolution cannot be linked to Thaksin who have time and again professed his loyalty to the King. Moreover there is proof yet to link him to this.

9/11, the assassination of US President, Lebanon bomb killing are recognized universally as an act of criminality. Likewise staging a coup and rewriting the law and Constitution (1997) to get around and prosecute Thaksin can also be considered an illegal act. A clause in the 1997 Constitution states that ` Coup are illegal and plotters can be tried for their action ``` By trying to link 9/11, the US assassination, Lebanon bomb killing and the coup as legal and lawful as in the case of Osama, the assassins, Lebanon politics and the coup plotters, you are in fact condoning criminality which will have a profound effect on the LAWS & DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS of the people in future . What is happening now, the coup plotters and the yellow shirts have broken every rule that can be found in the book. Yes the red has also done so but what if the yellow shirts and coup plotters has not taken the law into their hand, the red shirt would also have then abided by the law.

Prior to the 2006 coup when Thaksin was still PM, there are still many laws and acts that can be used to prosecute him if he has acted criminally and corruptibly. Or you can chose to finish him off democratically through an election and then put him on trial. But you chose otherwise against the wishes of the majorities of the people which have now led to such a TURBULENT situation.

Like you and many have said time and again, we do not wish to have a coup as WE KNEW it is illegal but have you act on it to civilly and sportingly accept the wishes of the majorities of the people democratic rights, rightly or wrongly.

WDS is the abb name of one in the Nation Forum
comment 67
krajog date : 05/07/2009 time : 15.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

HA_HA c59

I've presented what I know from sources I trust. Your love for Thaksin is your own business.

Please present what you think Thaksin had done good for this country without benefiting from what he did.

Don't make it personal between you and me. I did not attack you on your comments or your good attitude toward Thaksin. I respect you as a fellow blogger. It's not right to attack people who express his thought on someone or something. We should do it as lawyers do in a court. They fight their cases with witnesses and proofs to help their clients to win their cases. They don't attck lawyers on the other side on personal basis.

Who would be so naive to believe that Thaksin would make direct contact with the southern insurgents. The flare-up of tension at Khao Phra Viharn between Thai and Cambodian troops is part of Operation Taksin 2. He's crafty enough to use other people to do dirty works for him. For example, the Cambodian PM, the lobbyists, in the US and UK journalists like Jon Head and people close to him, like Chakrapob, Chaturon, etc. Thaksin has plenty of money. He's a super genius in making fast money from 2001 to 2006, about five years and a few months. While Thaksin's money in banks are frozen up to 76,000 million baht and about 160,000 million in cash and assets are also frozen in England. But he still has several billion US dollars left in many countries.

When he became PM, he reported that he had about 20,000 million baht. Now that sold his stakes in the Manchester City FC to an Arab sheik. British media reported that Thaksin's name was deleted from the club's record of ownership and every sign that bears his name.

Why such actions were taken by the Club? I've never heard anyone being chairman of an English FC deserved such treatment of having his name erased from the club's record.There is no history of English football club. Can you give me convincing reasons to explain what had happened to Thaksin in the UK?

In Sept 08. Thaksin was listed No.16 out of 40 Thailand's Richest by Forbes Magazine with a net worth of US$400 million or about 14,000 million baht. Forbes used assets as declared openly and his stock holding in the Thai stock market. So where the rest of the money came from?

He used at least 5,000 million UK pounds or around 300,000 million baht at the exchange rate of 60bht/pound at the time he bought the Manchester City FC.

Please give me some explanation where his money came from!!!

Don't say that he had borrowed the money from his Arab friends because if it so, he should be able to show some evidences to the British authority. You should know well that all money transactions in Europe can be traced back to sources if they done in an open manner. I found a comment from a foreign weblog.

"Give a country a democratic system, and pretty soon the poor will figure out how to use it for their own purposes. Their leader and voice in Thailand was Thaksin Shinawatra, an ex-cop from humble origins who became a telecommunications "billionaire". He was a demagogue who cut as many corners in politics as he had in business...

Please note the word "billionaire", which far different from "millionaire". To be a billionaire you need to have at least US$1 billion or 35,000 million baht at current exchange rate.
comment 66
wch date : 05/07/2009 time : 15.50

HaHa,
"he is a man with vision".
Yes, he is as long as a businessman.
No, he must not be, as a prime minister in a country.
I explained why PM Thaksin sold his business in Panya blog about 3 G.
DTAC could be sold as a part of rescheduling the heavy debt but AIS was never suffered.
Instead he put more 'TEM' lollipobs into his biz such as ITV, airliner and extended concession time, ie maximum value addition, and sold in lumpsum. Temasek was lured to grab the top stick in stick grabbing game, the wind.

In new year holiday his family cleared the deal in Singapore, he changed the related law on Jan 23 2005 in the low house to legitimate his deal, and announced, " My chidren sold it, not I did".

This all, was possible because he sat in PM seat.

PAD was organized and expelled him.
comment 65
HA_HA date : 05/07/2009 time : 13.52

c64, mr. Alien.

haha... i just spent my long long time to explain to mr. wch.. now you said the problem is NOT this...the problem is ...

like i said in c63, i admit. "I'm sure Thaksin did use his power to support his business."

Don't compare Thailand to the US. I think admire the US for trying to create the fairness in everything. Someone once told me, according to US law it's illegal for US company to give 'tea money' to officers in Thailand so they have to set up a Thai company to do that.
comment 64
Alien date : 05/07/2009 time : 13.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Hello Mr. Ha,

The problem is NOT Thaksin's sale of his telecommunications company. Businesspersons do this all of the time. The problem is that while he was PM, he gave billions to Myanmar for their tele-communications, which they then spent at his company, making him tons of money. There are other things he did just related to this company which were, in accounting terms, NOT "arms-length transactions." There appears to be alot of self-dealing regarding his PM/private business transactions. In the U. S., he would have been required to put his ownership interests into a "blind trust" so that he could not do this. Then, there is the taxes on the profit of his sale of the company. His billion dollar plus profit was non-taxable???? I beleive he used undue influence and pressure (and a little shuffling of positions) to achieve this. When I first read that the entire profit was non-taxable, i thought "WTF!!!" This doesn't even deal with the fact he was surreptitiously (with stealth) moving shares into to the names of his children, domestic help, etc. I don't know about you, but this money belonged to the Treasury of the Government of Thailand. Under democracy, this means that it belongs to the people of Thailand. he stole this money from them. In my opinion, yes, he did things for the poor of Thailand, but he was using the people's money, not his. Then, he was also putting the people's money into his pockets while telling them all he was doing for them. Go figure!
comment 63
HA_HA date : 05/07/2009 time : 12.55

c62, mr. WCH

I appreciate you trying to explain to me patiently instead of attacking me for my different opinion. This is more of my opinion.

For many businessmen, Telecommunication is a sunset business. It's also nothing wrong that you build up a business and sell it at the peak to get the best price.

If Thaksin didn't sold his companies he would be accused of 'conflict of interest', would he? I read somewhere that he had offered to sell the company to The Siam Cement Group and the Siam Commercial Bank, etc. before but nobody in Thailand wanted or can afford to buy. So do you think he should keep the company with downward future? After all, he is a man with vision.


Do you know DTAC was sold to Telenor and there're many foreign companies in Thailand that use Thais only as their nominees but only Thaksin is attacked.

As for 30 baht medical scheme, it is not the 'only' project he did. It's only an example. Beside, if the scheme is really bad (...Who support the service ? tax money and the medical professionals.
He could buy poor people by selling the medical people. This is not the politics...) the present government or the interim military government can revoke it, can't they?

But they didn't. Instead, they said why 30 baht, we can give it for free!!! ... And this is the other stupidity. Thaksin himself said it could be free but he wanted 30 baht as a buffer so at least people don't run to hospital all the time.

It has been a surprised for me that Thaksin's policies which had been badly criticized before have been continued in this government ie, Thaksinomics, medical scheme, OTOP, ..and Phrea Vihear ...?

It seems to me instead of revoke Thaksin's policies they revoke their own : sufficient economy is replaced by 800,000 million baht loan, etc.


About the private airlines business, I'm sure Thaksin did use his power to support his business. BUT, is private airlines business bad for the country? He did not use his power to sell drug or underground lottery, did he?

Again, I don't support corruption. People who violate the law must subject to punishment under 'one standard' justice system.

I just fed up with those HYPROCRITE, HOLIER THAN THOU.

------------------------------------------------

BTW, i would like to hear your opinion ..what do you think about on-line lottery?
comment 62
wch date : 05/07/2009 time : 12.04

Haha,
Thaksin did something good certainly. not only the 30baht, also he made lazy officials work and deliver the outcome. Now those people went back to the old habit.

However, as a pm, who announced on Monday for new promotion of private airliner business and his own company got the licence on Friday,,,

also as a pm, who knew if he sells mobile business to foreign company, the business is owned 100% by foreigners, that is prohibited by law, however dared to do it because he thought he has almighty power,,,,

All of this crimes can not be offset by his good deed such as 30baht medical service. Who support the service ? tax money and the medical professionals.
He could buy poor people by selling the medical people. This is not the politics.

Thai people can choose good PM out of hundreds out there, Why only Thaksin ?. Think this.
comment 61
HA_HA date : 05/07/2009 time : 11.39

c53, Mr. BangkokRay

Ya ya, we should meet ...may be next year. I think you've already reached your beer drinking quota for this year after your one week advance celebration of the Independence Day.

Thailand doesn't want another poor-drunk-uneducated Farang na...haha.

Anyway, it's ok to be drunk if it helps you teasing mr. MisThePoint better.

Just kidding.
comment 60
HA_HA date : 05/07/2009 time : 11.33

c30 K. Yabua,

Yup yup...there's the real world outside. We should not be obsessed with, for example, Nation blog ..haha.

This is a good place for me to practice English though.

Enjoy your weekend.
comment 59
HA_HA date : 05/07/2009 time : 11.28

c57. Thank you Mr. wch. I went back to read both. You mean c45 is the answer to the 'evidence' I'm asking? I don't know.... but reading your c57 is scary na. if this is true it means Thailand is going to have civil war right? So should I join the government side? ... and to protect whom? ...The old power that I don't agree with? Geez... I really don't know.

May be I should find out more in Thai webboard.

---------------------------------------
c50, khun krajog ... I was going to answer your Thaksin polluted people with TV, Cellphone ..material things but Felix c55 already said that.

I think it's useless for 'comfortable off' people to preach about being contend with poor simple life. Don't try to think for other people. Give them opportunity to make their own choice. .. Me..until now I still don't carry cellphone. But that's my choice. I'm happy with it. What's wrong with villagers who want cellphone so they can connect with their children? Are you saying they should be contend with walking miles and miles to find that the only public telephone in the village is broken?


And you said part of Taksin 2 plan is to ..."increase in insurgency in the three southern-most provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathivas." ... I am really confused here. Before Thaksin was accused of causing more violence in the South with his operation at Taak-bai. You mean now Thaksin joins hand with the Muslim in the South already...?


and you praising Chaun in c41. I always voted for Democracy and Chuan thinking he is honest. I've grown up and think being honest alone is not enough to lead the country.

When Thaksin introduced the '30 baht medical scheme' wasn't the opposition said it's not possible? Now everybody has seen it's possible so they come out to say before poor people got treatment free without paying 30 baht. (I think this is what you mean when you mention Chuan work, right?)

I can say most Thai people didn't know there're free medical treatment before for them. All we know is people who got free treatment were those destitute and were treated poorly. Never before Thaksin could Thai people walk in the hospital and get almost free treatment with DIGNITY.
comment 58
dryshrimp date : 05/07/2009 time : 10.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dryshrimp

Ian,
"This is just like Thailand as a whole, talk, talk, talk, interspersed with rallies and riots, everyone too busy fighting, metaphorically and for real, to actually do anything constructive."
Is this another repeatedly constructive idea for the Thai people from Khun Ian?
comment 57
wch date : 05/07/2009 time : 07.19

Haha c25,
Why don't you read my c 42 ? that may contain some answer to your c25.

This morning news confirms " Democrat spokesman said ' everything goes on the plan - Taakshin 2"

I think one or two oraganizations newly formed beside DAAD and Peauthai party are now active to expand their size.

It is certain that Thaksin has power, mainly in the provinces I listed and the group of politicised people is undoubtedly ex-communist converts.

Bangkok central power composed of mainly, officialdom and the military have kept suspicious eyes on them, so far since the military suppression of 1960s, 70s and early 80s.
Eventually the government services toward region was mainly to security and stability of the populace.
Thaksin used this state by including several ex-leaders of CPT, Jaturon Chaiseng is one of them.
He was one of political ideology propagation leaders through media. Another works in a local daily as a columnist although this day this man disappeared.

Thaksin's new movement is only to consolidate the Bangkok conservative that is compelled to come out in strong physical method.

However Thaksin need proper political tension to consolidate his power, the power from supporting people for his future. He knows he can not win the Bangkok opposite but by doing so, he want to pull out the real power from Bangkok citizen.

Without support of Bangkok citizen, no rural power can not survive. Nopochor (DAAD) expected Bangkok people woud have joined them in the last April Sonkran that will effectively pull down AV government but, the result was unexpectedly the opposition.
Bangkok citizen came out and crushed the Red !

This is why Thaksin can not win whatsoever he does and He knows it very well.
He want his money 2 billion dollar from Thailand.
His another 2 billion dollars overseas can not move because all the bank accounts of his and his siblings are now under surveillance of money laundry. UN set clearly 'money laundry is the evil to deteriorate global economy".
wch
comment 56
Ian date : 05/07/2009 time : 07.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I really do not understand the fuss over this petition, it seems to me the people who oppose it do so because it scares the shit out of them. If every Thai has the right to petition the king to overturn a grievance, then so do a million.
I do not see why it is an insult to the King, I assume it will not be couched in offensive words. I do not see it as forcing him to choose between red or yellow either, all he has to do is state that which is already established, namely that he cannot make political judgements or judgement with political repercussions.
It is the opponents of this petition that are politicising the King, taking it upon themselves to speak on his behalf, as they are fond of doing. This in itself is an insult to the King, all the King need say, and without any loss of dignity, "I'm sorry but under the constitution this is not a matter for me". He neither accepts nor rejects, he simply states the constitutional position.
This petition show not disrespect for the King but rather disrespect for the government and Justice system. They turn to the King as the higher justice. As such it becomes a token gesture, I doubt that the King will even read it officially.
comment 55
FelixQui date : 05/07/2009 time : 01.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Krajog, re. c.50,
You wrote: " Simple people my be quite happy with their living condition not depending on modern consumer items."
This is true, but it's almost always stated by people who are comfortably off. The clear evidence is that people without the material goodies very much want them, and that lacking them does result in lower happiness because of the natural and built in tendency to compare ourselves with others. This tendency is what ensures that having material goods is not in itself a guarantee of happiness, but the commonly stated converse that simple people are or should be happy with whtat they have is a falsehood perpetrated by those with rather more than enough preaching an facile panacea to those much worse off.
Perhaps we should allow the people in question to decide for themselves what they do and do not aspire to, rather than trying to force an ideology of an antique rural idyll down their throats, especially when that good old idyll never actually existed except perhaps in the mind of someone very well off promoting their own excellence. Perhaps the Ramkhamhaeng inscription is real, but it does not follow that it is also true as commonly interpreted. Life today is probably far better for the vast majority of THai people, at least as judged by things like expected life span, freedom, options to choose from, access to health care, information and other goodies that those people, like both you and I, think are worth desiring.

That said, I do agree that there is much wanting in any society where wealth is the sole or major determinant of a person's worth. Unfortunately, that prevailed in Thailand long before Taksin arrived - it was already well established when I arrived during Chatchai's time as PM. Indeed, much of Taksin's initial wild popularity was based on nothing more than his extreme wealth and the unreasoning respect that engendered.
comment 54
BangkokRay date : 04/07/2009 time : 23.26

nd, #43,
You're off your meds again.
comment 53
BangkokRay date : 04/07/2009 time : 23.21

HA_HA, #40,
You've got my physical characteristics figured out. We will meet in BKK for a beer or two won't we? Remember, you're buying? I'm just a poor, uneducated farang.
comment 52
BangkokRay date : 04/07/2009 time : 23.15

Krajog, #41,
How much did it cost the dems to buy the allegiance of the opposition parties? Now that's real "democratic" isn't it?

Many Thai's huh, 1-2,000,000? Suppose that constitutes a majority in your eyes. Maybe 5-10 %?
Democracy according to Krajoc?
comment 51
krajog date : 04/07/2009 time : 21.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Max c 49

Where did you get the idea that I twist the history around to say that King Taksin = Thaksin. I said that Thaksin's followers have tried to make Thaksin to fit the mold of King Taksin, which is beyond understanding of decent Thai people. Have you ever heard that he think of himself in the same category of great men like Nelson Mandela and Pridi Banomyong, the founder of Thammasat University in Bangkok and ex-regent of Thailand when King Anandamahidol (Rama VIIi)was still a teenage king back in the Post WWII time.
comment 50
krajog date : 04/07/2009 time : 21.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

ND c 43

Thanks. Another good thought about people classification.

When wealth was a benchmark for judging people, you would lose a great deal of other values people of different economic status have in their mind. Money is not everything according to universally accepted moral standard. I think the old way of spliting people in to four classes basing on economic status is rather out of date. Capitalism have started to show its weakpoints when financiers abused it for unethical money making schemes like Madoff, the Wall Street King of Ponzi Scheme.

Thaksin's capitalistic approach in dealing with Isan people has done more harm to the peaceful lifestyle of low income people. I don't think happiness in life is not always related to the level of income in certain group of people who can live off their land at a minimum need of cash to carry on with their lives without having luxury items to pass their days by.

People with capitalistic mindset tend to think a family without a TV set, a cellphone or a motorbike are in poverty because they judge thos people with materialistic idea. Simple people my be quite happy with their living condition not depending on modern consumer items.

Since Thaksincame into power as PM, rural people became pawns in political games and were exploited unknowingly as a large group of people he could sell millions of cellphones to them. It's a huge market for Thaksin to exploit at will for his political support bases and implanting consumerism in their minds. Isan people fell deeper into indebtedness since Thaksin came into powers. Many foreigners in Thailand do not dig deeper into the change of lifestyle and behaviour of those people that are far beyond their ability to earn enough income to support their new-found lifestyle.
comment 49
MaxHeadroom date : 04/07/2009 time : 21.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

Krajog, you are twisting history around by changing polarity. If Thaksin = Taksin then red is good I guess.
comment 48
notdisappointed date : 04/07/2009 time : 21.04

fq 46, actually I want to get pj's and maxwell's personal feelings and comments for the politization of the amnesty petition by thaksin and his crew.

They can rant about the LM law as much as they want; Hhowever as Thais shouldn't they also be making comments about IMHO the disgusting act of this improper pettion?

I want to see where they stand on this. irrespective of the LM law.

BTW, I know steven and wds alot better than you do; we have a history, so it's my call whether to dish them or not on a personal basis. PLease disregard any postsings of mine that begin with steven(sin) or wds to avoid getting caught up in something personal.

Ian, debate can come from statements and opinions and views as long as they are debates and not attacks. I am willing to exchange and share views and ideas at any time.
comment 47
FelixQui date : 04/07/2009 time : 20.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Krajog, re c.44,
My sympathies. I sometimes make the same awful typo. my misspellings don't worry me too much, or even the odd bit of garbled grammar, but I occasionally hit "Publish" and then immediately spot a missing "NOT" , and that does tend to make a difference to the meaning.

As I've written elsewhere, I also admire Chuan. He seemed to me a very competent, honest, principled and non-corrupt PM. He's my number 2 favourite Thai PM to date. Unfortunately, as you note, he was not so good at self-promotion as the likes of Taksin and Abhisit.
comment 46
FelixQui date : 04/07/2009 time : 20.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

nd, re. c7 and others,
You write as though you assume that people should not have the right to a free opinion on such matters, and that any dissenting opinion must be seen as wrong and severely punished. Unfortunately, Thai law currently assumes the same, as peacefulness never tires of proving to us.
You write as though a certain point of view is well known to be true, and therein lies your biggest error.

It is impossible for any such thing to be known to Thai people in Thailand who obey Thai laws relating to what may and may not be said about the king. The reason is the LM laws and other tools of censorship. I'm not saying that such views held by millions are wrong, but that it would be a very good to know that they are right as they very well might be. Such knowledge would be very much to His Majesty's honour and credit. It seems more than passing strange to me that Thai law and so many Thai people are dead set against such honour and credit being permitted. Why is that?

By your own standards, I think you should acknowledge that PJ and Max are right to persist in pointing out the harm that necessarily follows from the continued existence of the LM laws. When they are removed, knowledge will become possible, and legally safe debate on the other very real questions you raise will also become possible. That possibility of knowledge and expression of views would seem to me to a good thing for all concerned, and essential if Thailand is to develop politically and thence economically.

By the way, I agree that Taksin's latest ploy is a cheap political stunt of exactly the type you describe, but it's also cunning and repeats in a different form the politicisation of the monarchy that the yellow's are also so fond of - those airport occupiers and seizers of governemtn house in order to disrupt the the smooth functioning of the government were very eager to use His Majesty's name and image at every opportunity, and to bring LM charges against their political opponents. Both sides are guilty of the same politicisation, but I think the yellows have the edge on account of an event I don't want to mention.
comment 45
Ian date : 04/07/2009 time : 20.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Dryshrimp, 18. "Now as a well-educated Englishman, if you still believe what the red did in Pattaya, to Abhisit and Nipon and during Songkran to many redidents in Bangkok aren't barbaric"
Yes it was barbaric, so were the scenes at government house and at the airport.
I look at both sides of the coin, both reds and yellows have behaved in barbaric ways.
This is what my English education has led me to see.
This is also why I increasingly see little point in participationg in these blogs, I'm sure that will please you
Read all of the comments in this blog, everyone has adopted entrenched positions, not one comment has contributed to a debate, it is just statements, rebuttal and counter rebutal.
This is just like Thailand as a whole, talk, talk, talk, interspersed with rallies and riots, everyone too busy fighting, metaphorically and for real, to actually do anything constructive.
comment 44
krajog date : 04/07/2009 time : 20.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

C41
The sentence quoted below, a typo mistake is made: "The former PM Chuan Leekpai, the ex-leader of Democrat was a man of talent in political propaganda", should read...the ex-leader of Democrat was NOt a man of talent in political propagada..."
comment 43
notdisappointed date : 04/07/2009 time : 19.59

Since we’re breaking down the various sectors of the Thai population; I thought I’d offer my own breakdown of the different segments of the so-called ‘red movement’. From high importance to minimum importance.

1.The financier, organizer, and acknowledged leader thaksin, with his family, cronies, nominees, and sycophants.
2.Leeches and bloodsuckers; these are the thaksin hangers-on who attach themselves to anything ‘thaksin’ looking for the ‘main chance’.
3.Original reds; these are the former red/socialist/communist thinkers who’ve come down from the hills but are still active – this group is led by jai ungpakorn now in exile in England (and whose English mother brain-washed her children when they were in exile, to hate the ‘old elite’), surachai, and somchai.
4.Disaffected, but gullible and naive rural people who have been manipulated and fed propaganda and disinformation by the above 3 groups; who think that the movement is for them when actually it is primarily for thaksin and the hidden agenda of the original reds.

It should be noted that the original reds manifesto looked to overthrow; a. the established power/rich elites; and b. Monarchy. However, they realized that they could not do both at the same time. And because Monarchy is so widely respected and loved within Thai society much time and energy would need to be expended therefore taking emphasis away from the power/rich elites.

They therefore chose to ally themselves with the ultimate insider of the power/rich elite, thaksin. This to enable his revenge and for his money and organization to overthrow Monarchy/Sakdinar. After this was accomplished they would then turn their attention to back-stabbing thaksin and therefore overthrowing their perceived final obstruction to a populist society.

It therefore can be seen that the disaffected and disenfranchised have and will always be used as pawns and cannon fodder for the selfish ends of those who could care less but only ‘mouth’ endlessly about their rights and equality.

Without thaksin and his nominees, organization, and money the red movement would wither and die. And without it the reds would not be able to realize their own private manifesto.

And the ‘disaffected’? What about them? They don’t matter to either group except to use them for ‘democratic purposes’ legitimizing dictatorship.
comment 42
wch date : 04/07/2009 time : 19.32

a guerilla warfare

This must be investigated more.
In fact, I believe certain group, yet to be surfaced, has completed an special organization.
One cell one tambon is already confirmed.

In Payao province, an organization called 'village vigilantes' were formed and they had regular training. This group was brought when DAAD demonstrate in Nontha buri. It is uncertain if such group were active during the Sonkran commotion.
Also it is unconfirmed that how such grouping is progressed so far.
Personally I believe such armed militia can be possibly organized in Payao, Lan, Chiangrai, Nongkai, Udon, Sakorn Nakorn, Nakorn Panom, Kalasin, Chaiyaphum, Petchabun, Amnat Charoen that all are ex-stronghold of the communist party of Thailand. The guerillars were rehabilitated in state land. This groups are often coming out for permanent ownership of the given land.
They may expect if Thaksin take power, the ownership will be issued to them.

To this point, The democrat's initiative - Land Reform policy is significant to stabilize such dissatisfactory groups.
comment 41
krajog date : 04/07/2009 time : 18.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

steven c16

I just have time to read your long comment. I'm not familiar with WDS. Please tell me what this abbreviation means.

"Krajog, To say that Thaksin is planning a guerilla warfare would have meant that he is starting a revolution to regain his PM by force. This is very unethical, unsportmanship, misleading and is an INJUSTICE to Thaksin. Calling it a SOCIAL revolution would have been most appropriate."

You can think of me any which way you pleased. I couldn't care less. What I am in reality would not change by other people's perception about me.

I have not make up the story. If you know what Chakrapob Penkair has said about his going underground to carry out his plan to destabilise the monarchy and Giles "Jai" Ungphakorn Red Manifesto when he left Thailand for his UK home a few months ago. You would know that Guerilla warfare is most LIKELY to be part of the Red's Operation Taksin 2. As the plan was leaked, the reds may have to change its tactics.

You can call a revellion plan Social Revolution according to your mindset. Everyone has the rights to interpret things as pleased to suit their mentality. The US called 9/11 an act of international terrorism but Osama Bin Laden called it a "Jihad" and a great service to God of the Islam world. It's always two different things to the people at the receiving end and those at the other end. You may view Thaksin activities since he was ousted by the 06 coups justifiable because he has the rights to fight back. The western world may view the coup undemocratic. It's true. But some of Thai people may view it as a great relief from a highly corrupt government. The western democratic countries may disapprove the military coup and say that Thai people should be patient and seek democratic means to change the political grip of Thaksin over Thailand. You're an outsider who stands by democratic principles without looking at the pictures in broader perspectives in terms of local people's sentiment towards corrupt politicians who deeply entrenched in Thai politics.

In the US, when some people have no other way to dismiss a president they did not like, they used one-man coup with a pistol to kill their presidents. It's a quick solution. That's why four US presidents were assassinated. In Lebanon, they used bombs as political tools. Military coup is useless there.

You think Thaksin is most down-to-earth PM Thailand has ever seen because helped poor people in the North and the Northeast and initiated the universal health care system for thirty baht because you did not know that healthcare system was conceived by a group of doctors at the Ministry of Public health during Chuan Government in 1998. The former PM Chuan Leekpai, the ex-leader of Democrat was a man of talent in political propaganda. He is a very simple man with no wealth. When he was the PM, he lived in a friend's house in a small soi known as Soi Moh Leng at Makkasun area. He cannot be compared with Thakson in terms ingenious ways Thaksin used to propel his image. He cannot be compared with Thaksin in terms of wealth building and law-breaking gimmicks or Thaksin's ability to bend laws or change laws to suit his business interests such as the sale of Shin Corp. stakes to Singapore Temasek with paying a dime for tax. Chuan cannot compared with Thaksin also in the ability to assemble all crooked officials underhis protective fold. Abhisit is a novice in terms of political gimmicks if compare with Thaksin. Abhisit is a greenhorn PM unmatched to Thaksin shrewdness and financial resources. But Abhist is viewed by many Thai people a ray of hope at the end of a stinking political tunnels. Thai people like me do not want another military coup to happen but rest our hope of better days ahead in Abhisit's ability to withstand the red's undermining tactics to destabalize his government. You may view Abhisit as political stealer because he took away the premierhip from Thaksin's camp but he did it in the parliament through voting. A fair and clean democratic procedure. I respect your persoal view. You should respect other people's views also as a gentleman and with the sense of sportmanship as you have patronized me.
comment 40
HA_HA date : 04/07/2009 time : 17.05

Mr. BangkokRay...happy independence day to YOU!!!

What... you've been drinking beer a few days earlier up until today? I imagine you are a kind looking old man with big beer belly just like Santa Claus. haha..
comment 39
BangkokRay date : 04/07/2009 time : 14.49

HA_HA,
Did you think I left? Not likely. I simply escape for a few days and drink beer on the beach. It reminds me that I am retired and have flexibility. I leave my laptop at home. As for watching your back, you seem to do OK. Just keep feeding them yje facts. Just remember, thier mindset is that anything negative about Thailand is Thaksin's fault. Oh, and that the current PM is wonderful........... and the PAD did absolutely nothing wrong........and last, but not least the reds are uneducated thugs. Happy July 4th(American Independence Day).
comment 38
Alien date : 04/07/2009 time : 14.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Hello Mr. Ha ha. I agree with you on comment 36 regarding Thaksin trying to stop drugs. If those bastards at the United Nations hadn't complained, they could have offed another 7 or 8 thousand people and the drug problem might have been improved.
comment 37
HA_HA date : 04/07/2009 time : 14.26

Hey, mr. BangkokRay...

You know why i'm glad you're back? Please read Al's 'Political Loneliness 2' I am kinda feel 'political loneliness' among the YELLOWs here. Please watch the back for me ..haha.
comment 36
HA_HA date : 04/07/2009 time : 14.19

Hi mr. bangkokray …you’re back. Now, you’d made me went back and read Steven’s comment #16.

I am totally agree with you about sportsmanship, mr. Staven. And mr. Misthepoint c29 came to confirm as an example …haha.

For mr. Misthepoint c28, about Songkran rampage and the gas truck, I had presented another side of the news from CNN in Yoon’s “Why Thaksin’s first column fails to get published..in Red News.” I, sometimes, wonder if mr. MisThepoint is a programmed robot because he keeps repeating the words even after people gave him the truth. It seems like you just can’t present him the truth but have push some button to delete the old data and enter a new one …haha.


As for your analysis : My theory is more simple. Political tactics, shift of power …these are too complicated and abstract for the villagers. Thaksin just did practical things that make their life better; 30 baht medical scheme, teaches them to catch fish with OTOP, to smaller things such as caring about their children, give bicycle so the children didn’t have to talk 3-4 miles to school everyday, gave overseas scholarships to student from every sub-districts, brought Internet into villages so people can have access to the world.

Who in the right mind would encourage children to study abroad, encourage people to catch their own fish, brought Internet to them …if he had the intention to keep people under his control.

Thaksin also tried to eliminate drugs, mafia, re-organinze civil systems with his CEO policy. He made it clear that duty of civil servant is to serve people not to boss people around. (Now my housekeeper from an Isaan village said everything is back to old days.)

This why when Thaksin said ‘Choose me na krab’. The fourth group came out to choose him. They had never got this much from any governments before and after Thaksin.

This is why he is so well loved by the Fourth group and well hated by the First group whose lose it’s controlling power.
comment 35
BangkokRay date : 04/07/2009 time : 14.10

lurker, #32,
Don't you understand that when you post too many facts that these bozos can't defend, they resort to censorship?
comment 34
BangkokRay date : 04/07/2009 time : 14.01

nd, 24,
Sondi and his ilk got a quasi pardon for occupying GH for months.
Your hero promised on December 26, 2008 that justice would be served on the PAD in two weeks. It's now July 4, 2009 and latest word is that the investigation is nearly done.
Save the answer that "it was before he was PM". Thaksin's alledged offenses were LONG before his regime and he persues it daily. Unfortunately, he has no international credibility, hence he can't get any country to send Mr T back.
comment 33
dryshrimp date : 04/07/2009 time : 13.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dryshrimp

Notdis: You won my admiration.
comment 32
lurker date : 04/07/2009 time : 13.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/lurker

peace-

Why you want to censor me?

I didn't break any rules or insult people like you typically do.
comment 31
peacefulness date : 04/07/2009 time : 13.40
nationmultimedia.com

khun krajog-- with due respect, please delete comment11. tks
comment 30
yabua date : 04/07/2009 time : 13.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yabua

HaHa, I don´t understand your loneliness. Here you have Ian, the Master and Mentor-Al, the Political Missionary and so so so on. Besides, whenever anyone talks fact about the runaway crook, there will be quite a few temporary gunmen popping up to defend the Big Brother right away.
The quantity and quality of the Thaksin´s lovers and haters are more or less the same in this community, I think.

I won´t visit any other websites as I don´t live in the cyber world. I, in general, only read one red, one yellow and one rather neutral online newspaper and blog "before and after eight". Between the 2 "eight o´clock", I have to and want to work for my family.
comment 29
notdisappointed date : 04/07/2009 time : 13.18

br all's steven(sin) is good fro is pasting other's comments; he has no pure opinions or views other than those mae by others.

He runs in a pack. A pack of hyenas, they like to heckle and rant against others who don't agree with them, always seekiing new members and allies to help 'snap' at the heels of others.

As it's the 4th of July; better that you remain 'independent' than run with this pack.
comment 28
notdisappointed date : 04/07/2009 time : 13.12

steven(sin)

"You wouldn’t know the truth even if it bit you in the a s s. Who are you to be telling Thais who know the truth, something that is ‘foreign’ to the truth. Who are you that we have to believe you? We who have lived under the shadow of thaksin’s democratic dictatorship and power hegemony; his corruption and graft.

Tell us the truth about the Songkran rampage of your red s h i t s and how they attempted to hostage whole neighborhoods with gas-laden ed trucks or how they killed innocent residents who were trying to protect their homes.
Tell us that without thaksin’s money, leadership and his nominees planning and organizing these so-called democratic rallies that the average Thai could do it on their own.
Tell us that it’s not thaksin and his nominees who are leading your so-called social movement.
Tell us that thaksin and his nominees have no ulterior motives with regard to the petition for Royal amnesty.

All you’ve done and continue to do is to distort the true picture and manipulate the facts. You are in the same class as thaksin in delivering true lies and half truths. jatuporn, veera, and natawut are also in your caliber but more crude. wds more articulate but also a master deceiver.
comment 27
BangkokRay date : 04/07/2009 time : 13.02

steven, #16,
Extremely well stated post. You're likely to hear from the "hounds", but then again, they often have trouble denying the truth.
comment 26
HA_HA date : 04/07/2009 time : 12.50

oh, hi khun krajog.

sorry for using your space to discuss other matters naka... haha. i just get carried away.

BTW, the problem of the south also link to historical problem, I think.
comment 25
HA_HA date : 04/07/2009 time : 12.47

c22, k. yabua.

There're all kind of people on the Internet. Prachathai and Panthip too. It's impossible that every RED could keep their mouth shut and made it as a joke. Many of them are low educated, not very polished and hide themselves so well. But it doesn't mean they can't use computer. Look at children they can use computer so much better than some highly educated adults.

I admire that you can differentiate those PAID red and those red by their own believe. Some people think all the red're paid and red votes're bought.

There're many rude REDs in Prachathai. (less so in Panthip because the MD is more strict.) Once a polite RED post a comment that the RED should be more sensible, not using angry words. He was badly criticized by the rude red.

I was both agree and disagree with him. I think the sensible REDs will be for the sensible YELLOWs and the rude RED will server the rude YELLOWs.

You're the sensible person. I think Pantip and Prachathai want opinion from the Yellow side as well. I would recommend you to Pantip though, Prachathai people are too hardcore...haha.

However, in that website..you may feel 'political lonely' ...like i'm here in this website....haha.

---------------------------------------------

c23, mr. WCH

I think if Suthep and the 'OLD power' have evidence like this he wouldn't let Thaksin go away with it. After making up all the accusation against Thaksin, destroying the country standard of justice... they definitely not trying not to use this REAL evidence against him.

However, eventhough the plan is real .. I believe Thaksin will get support anyway. Thailand people has changed a lot after 19/9.

-----------------------------------------------
By the way, I would like to ask people here if you know the motive of the terrorists in the deep south?

First, I thought they wanted to retaliate Thaksin's dealing with Taak-bai. The present government also used to attack Thaksin's administration for this. Why now the beloved Democrat can't do anything? Should Abhisith and Suthep put more attention to this instead of attacking Thaksin?
comment 24
notdisappointed date : 04/07/2009 time : 12.21

55, since you are Thai, what do you think about what the reds are doing regarding the retirion for HMK to deign a n amnesty for thaksin?

Do you think that it is properly done and is this the right way to do it?
comment 23
wch date : 04/07/2009 time : 12.21

I dont think this entry is for all those commentators here who are illiterate in Thai history and the currents, or who are outsiders little interested beside chat to kill time.
Luker is able to talk but within in the history book of W.A.R.Wood.

It was the most volatile moment of Siamese history and still it is no-no to mention it.

This is why Sutheps were gone silent, the silence is sometime the best virtue.
comment 22
yabua date : 04/07/2009 time : 12.07
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yabua

HaHa, it´s true that so far we have not seen that document.
Why do many people believe it´s possibility? Just look at the records of the Red and Thaksin, I can understand anyone who feels scared. I can also understand the reactions of the Red. They could not be naive enough to go out to support the plan after it has already come to the light. Often people laugh or make jokes about something when they can´t deny it.

When I mention the Red, I don´t mean those who got paid a few hundred Baht plus free food, drink and sightseeing to wear red shirts. Those people don´t have ability to appear on any website.
comment 21
HA_HA date : 04/07/2009 time : 11.30

Again, if the plan is true at all and however it supposes to be secret the hardcore RED in Prachathai or Panthip webboard would come out to support the plan. You know, many of the REDs in those website are like what your guys believe 'illiterate' and I may add, 'restless'. They're so straightforward. They don't know how to keep this kind of secret.

However, all I saw from those websites joke, making fun of the plan.
comment 20
HA_HA date : 04/07/2009 time : 11.17

c19, thank you mr. wch.

So that's from Suthep. Good, if there's evidence show it. If there's any proof to be illegal handle it according to the law ...(one standard law). This is simple. Why not show and let the rumour grow bigger and bigger and things getting more and more complicate.

I support the truth and one standard justice system.

The point is there're so many accusations of Thaksin that claimed to have evidence.
comment 19
wch date : 04/07/2009 time : 10.56

Plan II of Shin de Taak was written by Jakrapob Penke, handed over by Wira to the intelligence agency, that is why,
Sutep said " We have documentary evidence".

If one add or correct over my short message of this, the truth will be surfaced.
comment 18
dryshrimp date : 04/07/2009 time : 09.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dryshrimp

Ian,
"Why are there so few yellow supporters in these blogs who who are capable of logical debate rather than passionate invective."
"You blame the reds for the divide in this nation, you call them barbaric, I say the same to you, an educated barbarian is still a barbarian."
Yabua and I know the country history enough to pinpoint what and who is harmful to the country.
Now as a well-educated Englishman, if you still believe what the red did in Pattaya, to Abhisit and Nipon and during Songkran to many redidents in Bangkok aren't barbaric, I think educational system in England had produced a problem.
comment 17
HA_HA date : 04/07/2009 time : 09.33

Before you guys make any comment of Operation Taksin 2 please consider first if this is true.

Even members of Prachathai or Panthip webboard who are mostly RED and some love Thaksin blindly had never heard of it until it was mentioned by the government.

Where is this believe come from? Somebody suggested that it is probably from the first person who mentioned this word - "Paan Taksin 2" which is definitely not from the RED.

I know many of you HATE taksin so so much and so ready to believe anything against him. Please don't let your HATE blind you from the truth.
comment 16
Steven_ date : 04/07/2009 time : 09.08

Krajog, To say that Thaksin is planning a guerilla warfare would have meant that he is starting a revolution to regain his PM by force. This is very unethical, unsportmanship, misleading and is an INJUSTICE to Thaksin. Calling it a SOCIAL revolution would have been most appropriate.

Read and think hard on what WDS has to say below. It would make you and the anti Thaksin understand yourself and how prejudice most of you are.

````As I said, sportsmanship is one’s ability to win and lose civilly. People with good sportsmanship stay humble when they win, and accept the defeat civilly when they lose. It appears significantly evident that quite a few people in this forum who disagree with my opinions lack sportsmanship, as they resort to “name calling” and “cheap accusations” in order to discredit me. To say it in a harsher way, they lack the ability to argue their points logically and scholarly.

Going back to my assertion that the division in Thai politics is a result of Thailand deeply rooted social issues….
If you analyze the big picture of the Thai society, you will realize that Thai people have been divided into 4 main groups. First is the high-society people consisting of people who are and/or have been close to the royal families both from the past and present, along with high ranking bureaucrats. The second group is the very wealthy people. The third group, for the most part, is the middle-class urban dwellers who live in both big and small cities throughout Thailand. The fourth group consists of the lower-middle class and the farmers who are the majority of Thai citizens (interestingly, a good number of people from other social groups who have sympathy for this group have joined this group in making sure their voices are heard.)

SOCIALLY, the fourth group of the Thai citizens have been put under unfair disadvantages and been looked down upon, for the most part because of their lack of monetary power and social influence. Prior to the Thaksin era, the fourth group was not very active in politics, as they lacked the understanding that their votes could have significant impact on their society. SOCIALLY, this group of people simply and humbly accepted the fact that the other groups of people excluded them from the country’s decision making process; they simply accepted the line that divided them the rest of the Thai citizens although they were the majority. Meanwhile the other three groups of Thai citizens have been mostly active in both local and national politics. Prior to the Thaksin era, the first, the second and the third groups of people were the people who had the most say in Thai politics. Through their votes, and thus through their house of representatives, these minority groups of people made the decisions for the majority of Thais (the lower-middle class and the poor).

However, Thaksin has helped the fourth group of people realize that they ought to be the people who had the most say in the Thai politics since they voices/votes represented the majority of Thai citizens. Thaksin has initiated a SOCIAL evolution in Thailand in such way that suddenly the power to administer the country shifted from the hand the minority (the first 3 groups of Thai citizens) to the hand of the Thai majority (the fourth group of people, aka, the lower-middle class and the poor). This sudden power shift is one of the reasons that many among the first three groups of Thais despite Thaksin, along with his supporters, the lower-middle class and the poor.

As you can see that the division among the “lower-middle class and the poor” and the rest of the Thais have existed since the early days of Thailand. However, because the lower-middle class and the poor were suppressed from voicing their opinions, such division was never made obvious and nobody cared. Thaksin helped the lower-middle class and the poor to understand they no longer needed to live under any suppression, and that they should voice their opinions (through their votes) because they are the majority. As such, their voices should be the voices that indicate who and/or what kind of people they want to run this country. It should no longer be the voices of the minority that governs Thailand; it ought and must be the voices of the majority that governs the country, just as how it is in developed nations.

Evidently, the division in the Thai SOCIETY is between 2 major camps: the red-shirted (the lower-middle class and the poor – the Thai majority) and the yellow-shirted (the minority of Thais who think that their voices (although smaller) should be louder in governing the country). It is evident that it was the yellow –shirted who created a deeper division among Thais when they started looking down upon and calling the lower-middle class and the poor (now, the red-shirted) “stupid.”

Unless the yellow-shirted comes to term with the fact that the political power has already shifted into the proper direction (in the hand of the Thai majority), SOCIALLY, Thai citizens cannot achieve national reconciliation. The yellow-shirted must accept this power shift civilly with good sportsmanship instead of closing off the airports like they did recently, in order to continue to dictate the Thai political landscape uncivilly. The reconciliation might even be achieved faster if the yellow-shirted were to be humble enough to accept their fault for calling the lower-middle class and the poor “stupid,” and offer the lower-middle class and the poor an apology. For as long as the yellow-shirted continues to call the lower-middle class and the poor “stupid” and offer them no apology, the red-shirted will continue to try to make sure that their voices are heard, and their votes count and are accepted in Thai politics.

So, what we are witnessing now is a great SOCIAL EVOLUTION in which they the lower-middle class and the poor will no longer live in suppression and in silence
comment 15
wch date : 04/07/2009 time : 06.42

" SHIN de Taak'
I prefer writing like this as he reminds me of,
" Joan de Arc' of Anglo-Franco 100 years' war.

Shogoon Shin virtually closed the bloody history chapter of 1000 years' Burmese aggression against Lavo-Ayuttaya kingdoms.

Unfortunately very much short-lived only to the cause of the Tai's Siam kingdom.

Shin-Watr clanship is linked to the shokunate ?
comment 14
Ian date : 04/07/2009 time : 04.07
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Yabua, 13. The funny thing is I have never been a red, like you I was forced in their direction by the narrow mindedness of the yellows I meet on the internet. Like your reference to Thaksin giving me a bonus, that is just childishness. I never said ND was a fool, that is why he and I can agree in many areas, we both know that the reds and yellows are imperfect.
Take the Thaksin influence from the reds and they are mostly decent people, take the ship jumping coalition partners away from Abhasit and he might have a decent government, take Sondi and the Osake fanatics out of the the yellows and they become decent people.
You just cannot seem to understand that reds and yellows are just ordinary people who are being manipulated by a few.
comment 13
yabua date : 04/07/2009 time : 03.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yabua


Ian, you are good at your job as usual even when you are on holiday. If Thaksin knows this, he will defintely reward you a big bonus.
But I don´t think that ND is a fool.If he were, he would have been red.

I am not yellow, Ian. I didn´t agree with several things they did but if you point a pistol to me and force me to choose the side, I would have to choose to be yellow.
That what you REDs have successfully done.
comment 12
Alien date : 04/07/2009 time : 02.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

I also enjoyed reading the above on King Taksin the Great. I love history.

I hope the rest isn't true. I am hoping to come to Thailand on or about the end of July. Please tell them to hold off for a while. You can use my name if you wish.

Thanks,

Alien
comment 11
lurker date : 04/07/2009 time : 02.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/lurker

1. I like the history lesson of the Fall of Ayutthaya.

2. From my understanding of Thai history, King Thaksin was murdered according to ritual for Thai kings(put in a sack and beaten with clubs so no blood would touch the ground), and he was deemed insane because he tried elevating himself to God-like status and above the Buddhist hierarchy and this disturbed many Buddhist monks at the time, so they wanted to get rid of him for being blasphemous. This was why after Rama I was elevated to the throne, he spent a good part of his reign being a great patron of Buddhism.

3. I don't think the conspiracy theories that are advocated by the kooks at Manager and ASTV have any validity.

4. My personal gut feeling, though I have no evidence, is that Thaksin 2 is nothing but a cooked up scheme by counter intelligence officers in the military to discredit the Red movement.

5. The notion that Thaksin wants to come back to the country and rise to power again based on illegally overthrowing the government is illogical, because the only moral authority Thaksin does have comes from him being illegally ousted in a coup. If he comes back in the same way he was ousted, he would have zero legitimacy.
comment 10
Ian date : 04/07/2009 time : 01.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

When I read comments such as those of Yabua and dryshrimp, when I read blogs like this of Krajog's, I realise that democracy faces a real uphill struggle in Thailand.
Democracy, believe it or not is a situation where all voices can be equally heard, where opinions can be contended and debated.
Why are there so few yellow supporters in these blogs who who are capable of logical debate rather than passionate invective.
Inflexible, dogmatic and abusive, is this that true nature of the yellows, if it were not for a few like ND it would not even be worth debating issues. Even Expresso in spite of his personal dislike for me is more rational and unbiased at times.
You blame the reds for the divide in this nation, you call them barbaric, I say the same to you, an educated barbarian is still a barbarian.
comment 9
expresso date : 04/07/2009 time : 01.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Wong Wien Yai was the place I traveled through everyday to and from school from my Thonburi home.
comment 8
expresso date : 04/07/2009 time : 01.07
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

'Don't they care enough for this minor detail that all they can do is rant about the LM law?"

Hey, you forgot to mention Ian!
comment 7
notdisappointed date : 04/07/2009 time : 00.51

I think that my views and opinions are more pragmatic then most of you anti-coup bloggers, e.g.maxwell and pj.

I have not heard even a whimper from them as to their thoughts on the propriety of the petition to get a Royal amnesty for thaksin.

Don't they care enough for this minor detail that all they can do is rant about the LM law?

And disregard the game being played by thaksin and his crew at the expense of your KING!

Their silence in this matter shows blatantly their quisling nature that they cannot bring themselves to defend our KING but must side with those who are anti-coup and who are also playing a dangerous game that they support.

Now is the time for all true Thais and those foreigners who love and respect our King to make their voices heard here and in any public arena.

Don't let them politicize our Monarchy and use this as a device to further alienate the Thai people and widen the divisiveness that is all of their making.
comment 6
yabua date : 04/07/2009 time : 00.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yabua

I have been very disturbed by the Reds´rudeness. Our nation owed severeignty to King Taksin the Great but those outlaws picked his name for their terrorist plan, aimed to rescue the most corrupt runaway politician at cost of the country.
comment 5
expresso date : 03/07/2009 time : 23.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

I hope the present government would do some PR work before the 1M signatures are gathered. Don't wait till the 1M signatures are gathered and then explain in vain!
comment 4
expresso date : 03/07/2009 time : 23.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

The gathering of 1M signatures is a stepping stone to further discrediting the present government, creating anarchy, and then to carry out the next plan.

The elected yo yo's who are doing the petition know full well of the legality issue but they carry on anyway, because they know better that the innocent mass could be fooled easier from the way they have been elected.

What a shame!
comment 3
notdisappointed date : 03/07/2009 time : 23.28

DS, Well Done!!

Welcome back. You've become more politically vocal since your return; good for you!
comment 2
HA_HA date : 03/07/2009 time : 22.17

The latest cook up story to discredit Thaksin.

Previous Attempts :
- Suvannabhumi, the most dangerous airport.
- Thaksin sold the nation to Temasek.
- Thaksin traded Preah Vihear for Koh Gong.
- Temasek bought Shin Satellite in order to spy military secret.
- Thaksin wants to overthorw the monarchy and become president.
- Thaksin hired Khmer sorcerer to cast spell over King Rama5 monuments. (Sondhi Lim already dispel the spell with used sanitary pads.)

I think this government should do concentrate in solving the economics and social problems instead of being obsessed with Thaksin na.
comment 1
dryshrimp date : 03/07/2009 time : 21.24
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dryshrimp

sin of King Taksin the Great name means assets, and richness. He represents the assets of our history.

sin in Thaksin name means " corrupted assets" and combined with "sin" in English meaning.
The guy tried incessantly to delay our country progress and keep supporting people to break the law.
Million names won't help.
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