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Natee's Blog
No longer a journalist....still love writing.
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/natee
Wednesday , July 25 , 2007
Studying in the UK (1) - Do Not Come
Posted by natee , Reader : 1777 , 10:13:43   | Category : Studying in the UK  
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 (This is the first of a series on studying in the UK).

The best way to save your parents’ money as you prepare for that one year Masters course in England is a single thought people rarely consider. Just don’t go to England – or anywhere abroad.

In fact, don’t even do a Masters. The fixed preconception in every single upper middle class Thai parent’s head is that once your son or daughter has graduated from the required undergraduate degree in Thailand, embellishing it with a degree from abroad is a requirement. The wealthiest of those will send their children to the UK or the US. Others opt for Australia, and recently, India.

While in the UK, I’ve watched Thai students come and go over the years and have been saddened at the level of unpreparedness many Thai students coming to the UK display. A discomforting number are unable to complete a single sentence without making a major grammatical error. Many more are unable to fully understand a chapter in an academic book. Most struggle with coursework that English Masters students usually breeze through.

This is not because Thai students are intellectually in adequate or lazy. While not claiming that  this blogger is beyond reproach, I dare boil the failure of many Thai students down to three primary reasons.

The first reason is the most obvious: Thai students’ extremely substandard English.  I remember reporting several years ago how Thai students, as a whole, averaged among the lowest scores in the TOEFL exam in Asia. I refused to let myself believe that this was true, but I get a shock every single year when I see the new group of Thai students arriving.

While there was no doubt that several were mature, and most would probably make it through their courses through perseverance, the level of English many Thai students in the UK portray are little better than a 6th grader at an English speaking school. Worse is that most Thai students group together and, well, speak Thai. Most leave England with the same level of English they arrived with.

The second reason is less spoken of, but painfully obvious to a select group of Thais who spend a little less time taking things for granted: poor analytical skills and cultural differences. Thailand’s multiple choice exams are a poor basis for analytical skills.

Compounded with the reluctance to question authority and to intelligently debate issues, Thai students in the UK are at a loss when asked to do literature reviews and to argue a case in their coursework. Ask a university student walking around Siam Square for their opinion on whether Thailand’s coup has been good (or bad) for democracy, and you’ll know exactly what I mean.

The last reason, but certainly not the least important, is that the motivation for each Thai student to come to the UK is completely wrong. You come here to widen your academic horizons, not to get a degree. A degree from England is completely useless if you go back with the same level of English, poor analytical and transferable skills, and at least a million baht poorer.

In other words, don’t come if you don’t know what you want in your life. A degree from abroad does not guarantee you a better job if you still don’t know how to use your brains to actually *think*.  A degree is supposed to be an award for being able to use your knowledge.

Owning a degree, unfortunately, does not mean you actually possess any knowledge. One of the worst kept secrets in English academia is that the response of many English universities to the inadequacy of international students is to ‘dumb down’ the Masters courses so that most would pass. This results in continued applications from international students. Failing students means that the university gets a poor reputation and few applications next year. That’s about £10,000 a head, triple what the English students pay.

In summary, don’t go to England unless you’re one of the exceptions to the rule and can overcome the three given common failings of Thai students in the UK.  If you feel that you can work on being an exception, come back to this blog, and perhaps we can work on something together.


Read comment

comment 61
naive date : 23/10/2007 time : 16.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/naive
Narrow and wide by "Naive" point of view. ...................................*v*....................................................................For Thai reader visit http://www.oknation.net/blog/wickedgirl

Many people want to be "Nak rien Ang gid" until they really reach real "Ang gid"
comment 60
Ian date : 01/08/2007 time : 19.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Ggrass, I am a very fast one finger typist, people who watch me are often amased. I think the reason is that when I was a teacher of Computer Studies all my pupils would be sitting at computers. So rather than push them off their seat I would lean over their shoulder and type corrections on their keyboard. This meant using just one hand and so it was easier to use just one finger, plus sometimes the thumb. I guess I just got stuck in a rut
comment 59
GGrass date : 01/08/2007 time : 08.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

ian: yes it does!

i didn't know you were one finger typist... by the look of it, you look more like eleven finger typist!

i've noticed that you prefer quoting other articles in many occassions. and i don't mind if you do that to someone else, but i was hoping you would be more 'personal' with me... but now i see, i'll just click on the link you provide, knowing you probably would have said the same thing.

i hope you understand my reason for flaring up, although the reason might not be so reasonable.
comment 58
Ian date : 31/07/2007 time : 19.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Ggrass, what I think, is like most people, based on what I have been taught. As a child I had to study Latin and ancient Greek, I was told that this is where the skills of oratory were first developed. This was logical to me, you cannot have debate and hence oratory in a closed, dictatorial society. Look at Thailand where open debate can land you in prison if whoever is in power at that moment does not like your comments. Put another way, debate can only exist in a democracy and as far as I know England was the first country to become a true democracy.
One factor you are I'm sure unaware of about me is that I am a "one finger typist", another factor you may have noticed is I am lazy (I have just opted out of debate with Greg for this reason ).
Put these two factors together and you might understand that if I can find an article which says exactly what I want to say, I will often use that article for my own convenience.
You write,"whether the art of debate was perfected by british or whoever isn't very important to me"
It is equally unimportant to me, so I was quite surprised when you flared up as you did. I seemed to have hit a raw nerve which I did not know existed. There is often a cultural element to these disputes, if you had initially asked, "what are your personal reasons for thinking this?", you might have got the answer you wanted. I took it as a more general question.
Does this clear things up for you?
comment 57
GGrass date : 31/07/2007 time : 13.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

ian: hey, uncle ian, may i have your attention for a moment pls?

i was angry because i wanted to hear what you had to say personally, but you preferred to quote wikipedia. i don't know why, but that makes me a bit angry.

well, it's not personal, and i retract my comment on you being arrogant.

whether the art of debate was perfected by british or whoever isn't very important to me, and i take it that it must've been perfected by the british as i rarely can present clear argument when facing you.

but i just wanted to know why YOU think so, but i get rerouted to wikipedia, so i snapped.

call me ill tempered or irrational, even, but hey, it's just me, GGrass, no need to say you won't comment on me anymore, that's too harsh, don't you think?


comment 56
Ian date : 30/07/2007 time : 19.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Catch22, leaving aside the price difference, there is a taste difference. I have not been to a Thai restaurant in England, but have been to many Indian and Chinese ones. They serve food which has been adapted to our tastes, a Vindaloo in England is far hotter than in India, Peking duck will be less greasy than in Beijing, fried noodles will have less soy sauce. Similarly in Hat Yai I was served "Traditional English Fish and chips", if my local chippy had served it up I would have thrown it at him:-)
But in Khaosan road I know a place that does a great stewed beef and boiled potatoes, you just have to remember to call it goulash:-)
comment 55
catch22 date : 29/07/2007 time : 23.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

Natee - I agree with the clinary arts being the pits, yet despite this Britain seems obsessed with cooking shows. These shows have for som God only knows reason made stars out of cooks who are mainly fruits and keep puttting together the same boring ingredients dressed as something different. I had Thai food once in Englan, never again. Apart from the fact that gaeng kiew wan, boiled rice and a beer cost me 15 quid (almost a 1000 baht, it was also quite bland, tasted mainly of coconut and wasn't in fact very big. I felt quite relieved when I returned to me Thaiyai lady's hole in the wall restaurant in Chiangmai, where everything has been 20 baht ever since I can remember and damn tasty too as she goes to the market every morning and buys fresh ingredients. However, she is partial to a sneeze or two whilst cooking, but her pan is so hot nothing could survive!
comment 54
Ian date : 29/07/2007 time : 22.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Even "king of the bloggers" seems to be a misunderstood joking comment.
comment 53
Ian date : 29/07/2007 time : 22.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

natsee,
perhaps you can mediate here, I cannot see how a tongue in cheek comment such as this,

'As is well known, wiki comments are not absolute, you are welcome to challenge this, but until you successfully do so I will maintain my position.'

can cause such anger. Am I not saying that wiki articles can be wrong and that therfore I might be wrong if I quote them? I was inviting Ggrass to prove me wrong, how is that being arrogant?

comment 52
GGrass date : 29/07/2007 time : 21.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

ian: how the hell did i try to be the 'king of bloggers' as you say?

i didn't realize there was such thing.

'As is well known wiki comments are not absolute, you are welcome to challenge this, but until you successfully do so I will maintain my position.'

the above is from you, and this is where i get pissed off.

if you can't see how i can get agitated by that, then i'm disappointed myself.
comment 51
Ian date : 29/07/2007 time : 20.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

natee, perhaps it is a cultural thing, I don't mind being called pompous, big headed, opinionated, but being called arrogant is not something an Englishman will happily accept. However I have noticed that many "important" Thais seem to enjoy being arrogant. Perhaps a spin off from the feudal culture? Anyway it failed to annoy me it just made me sad that he sees me this way.
comment 50
natee date : 29/07/2007 time : 19.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/natee

Ian: I don't think you annoyed him. I have a nagging suspicion that in GGrass's own unique way, he was trying to annoy YOU! :)
Catch22: No no no no, you don't get proper Thai food here, apart from perhaps at Addie's at Earl's Court.Despite the many British achievements, the culinary arts just isn't one of them.
comment 49
Ian date : 29/07/2007 time : 17.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

natee, whilst I suspect that an English education at a top university in England or America is one of the best in the world, a typical overseas student who attends a "red brick" university probably gets no better than they would in their home country.
To me the benefit of a foreign education comes from the "foreign" not the "education". The experience of meeting a different culture and learning to live in it. Students who cling together in tight little national cliches defeat this objective.
The more people from different cultures understand each other the better we can adjust to the future global society.
As to Ggrass, I did not start anything, at least not intentionally. I was as surprised as you at his outburst. I think it illustrates my earlier point, I thought we were friends but it seems instead that I irritate him. A cultural difference?
comment 48
catch22 date : 29/07/2007 time : 11.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

Pondering - life in the Uk is great. You can get the finest Indian curries, the hottest Thai dishes, the chowiest of chow mein's. You can absorb yourself completely into Islamic culture and you can learn how to be a home grown suicide bomber........oops wrog topic, you said life in UK............no, I'm right this is life in the UK.
comment 47
Pondering date : 29/07/2007 time : 10.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/pondering

Natee:
Oh..that is very classic. I don't really see a way (or ways if any) to attract *the attention of the 20+ year old ab-baew goofs, hell-bent on dumping their parent's money abroad* like you questioned. My parent aren't the rich ones. I've observed them saving money for me to study aboard my whole life, so when it's my turn to get the education, I know the purposes of being overseas (not that I'm smart than others or anything, but hey I've got to make sure the money is well-spent somehow.) For those whose parents have been spoiling them all their whole life, that depends on their conscious. Some discover that wisdom later, some never in their lifetime. I just think it's a waste of time to throw money overseas when they don't even care about it in the first place. Money might have been better spent in Thailand, having education or not. By the way, you should write more about life in UK. I've never been there. Should be interesting, eh?

comment 46
natee date : 29/07/2007 time : 09.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/natee

Pondering: I shall look forward to your blog! A problem we have to overcome, I think, is that most people who bother to read (and comment on) our blogs are those who are already well aware of the issues. How on earth do we attract the attention of the 20+ year old ab-baew goofs, hell-bent on dumping their parent's money abroad?

Ian and GGrass, can't we all just get along?
comment 45
Ian date : 28/07/2007 time : 23.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Ggrass, I seem to have got under your skin, I' m not sure quite how, is it that it is ok to have an opinion as long as it agrees with yours? I won't bother to defend myself, I see no point in view of your comments, they would merely serve to bolster your opinion of me
Rest assured I will not challenge your role as king of the bloggers (according to my survey), in fact I am rapidly moving towards a position where I shall cease to even blog.
comment 44
GGrass date : 28/07/2007 time : 22.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

ian: if it's got nothing to do with being british, then the arrogance is coming entirely from you.

you say you welcome me to challenge the wikipedia successfully before i come challenge you.

why didn't you just say,

'here's the order in which the smartest is mentioned first, and the dumbest is mentioned the last.

1. ian
2. wikipedia
3. GGrass



you're right. i cannot even challenge wikipedia. therefore i cannot even dream to challenge almighty IAN.

but you know what?

that makes you just marginally smarter than the dumbest guy on earth.

so that leaves us a whole lot of smarter people than you whom you just might come across before you die, so you just might want to lower your ego a bit.

comment 43
PasaNINJA2499 date : 28/07/2007 time : 17.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/PasaNINJA2499
Keep walking forward. Don't give up. Don't fed up.

GG- is right!!!
Somehow, degree is the thing guaranteeing people skills. Yet the paper can’t imply the actual skill of the owner, I see no company not require seeing candidate’s academic certificate.

comment 42
Ian date : 28/07/2007 time : 17.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Tawan, If the Brit happened to be an educated Scot, you would be safe to increase your bet:-)
comment 41
catch22 date : 28/07/2007 time : 12.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

If Jeremy Paxman could facilitate the US presidential debates, he would make the candidates show their true colours
comment 40
Tawan date : 28/07/2007 time : 11.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/tawan3

As for as debates, I would bet on a Brit any day
comment 39
Pondering date : 28/07/2007 time : 07.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/pondering

Natee:
I've got to tell you. This blog is very inspiring for me to start one about studying aboard. I agree with almost every single word you wrote, but I must say, believe it or not, a labeled aboard degree means a lot in Thai society and again, I hate to say this: as much as street experience one can have, aboard degrees help you somewhat--less or more. I know so many Thai students here in the US and admit straight up of why they are there--go get a degree then get the heck out. Most have no idea what they want out of this expensive education, but are told by parents to come. That's about it.
comment 38
Ian date : 27/07/2007 time : 23.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

The underlying concept of debate is oratory, here is a wikipedia entry on that topic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oratory
As is well known wiki comments are not absolute, you are welcome to challenge this, but until you successfully do so I will maintain my position.
I will further add that until very recently the art of debate was a sponsored activity in most quality centers of education throughout the English speaking world.
This is nothing to do with being British, it is recognised that early Buddhist employed a form of debate but it never reached the standards of oratory exemplified by people such as Cicero, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orator
comment 37
GGrass date : 27/07/2007 time : 20.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

ian: you speak as if it is a given fact that art of debate was perfected by greeks and romans. and you further your comment by saying the brits have refined it.

is it because you are so sure of YOURSELF and you happen to be british?
comment 36
Ian date : 27/07/2007 time : 17.07
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Tawan (comment33), if I can just make a slight alteration:-) The art of debate was first perfected by the ancient Greeks and Romans. The British simply took this to a higher level. A standard test is to debate and win on some issue that you actually feel the opposite about:-)
comment 35
catch22 date : 27/07/2007 time : 12.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

GG - I understand where you're coming from and in a sense I agree. However, having worked with quite a few idiots who have degrees coming out of their ears but no common sense whatsoever, I conclude that you HAVE TO SAY you have a degree, but the degree itself is no proof of knowledge or ability. I think that's why most employers don't actually ask to see the degree and transcript, coz they can see if a person is good or not during the probationary period.
comment 34
GGrass date : 27/07/2007 time : 11.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

Natee, Tawan:

no matter how much we try to sugar coat it and make it sound as if we are 'enlightened', it still remains that education (degree) is needed for getting better jobs and making more money.


comment 33
Tawan date : 27/07/2007 time : 07.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/tawan3

Wow Khun Natee, May I say, Deja vu I have been there done that and you are exactly right. I think most students go abroad for the wrong reasons but then again at such a young age there was no way I could have known better.

I now know that education is not for getting a better paying job and making more money. Education is the foundation to build your life experiences on. If one has the opportunity to travel it opens the mind in a way staying home can not do.

Although I do agree with you, I do have one pet peeve debate was invented by the Brits to a fine art there is no way an Asian student can compete with that no matter how big ones mouth is.

The Japanese sums it up the best logic was invented so that westerners could win debates.
comment 32
Ian date : 27/07/2007 time : 05.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Catch22, whilst I look younger than 71 I don't think I could pass for under 30, that being the international upper age limit for student concessions. When I entered senior citizen status I did start to get a few concessions but again I had problems. In southern China I visited a world heritage site, I could not prove I was old enought to prove entitlement to half price as I did not have my passport with me. I finally convinced them with my library membership card;-)
comment 31
WDS date : 27/07/2007 time : 03.07

Natee - well said mate.
comment 30
catch22 date : 27/07/2007 time : 00.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

Ian - so you've got a press card too - did you pass on the student ID? I see they now do British Driving licences but not Thai. I would have thought forging ANY driving licence is against the law, but apparently not so. Also, A Thai licence can legally be bought from the traffic office for a few hundred baht, so I guess there wouldn't be much business. In all my working years I was never actually asked to produce a degree, transcript or anything else. I guess in UK they could check it out personally by letter or phone, but in Thailand no one gives a toss anyway.
comment 29
tukky date : 26/07/2007 time : 20.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/jintana

Natee, your blog reminded me an email I received from one of my friend who studied in Cambridge. I want to share their stories with you. I didn't mean to look down on anybody. Actually I think it's funny.

Here are they:

In the first class of the first day a teacher asked students to introduce themself. I (Thai) introduced myself and followed with another Thai student.

I : Hi ..guys....my name is ................ I'm from Thailand ....bla bla bla ...Thank you.
Teacher : Next !
Another Thai guy : Hello ....My name is........( very long and hard to pronounce name)
A foreign student : can you say again ?
The Thai guy : My name is ....................... Or u can call me " Apple "
Everybody : ...........................
Another foreign student : hahahahhahahahaaaaa ( laughing to die ) Then You can call me " Banana "

All in the room : hahahahahhahahahahahha
The Thai guy : .............( !@^*(&#)*($_#(+$ )

From: Rak Sud Khob Pha

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a story which always makes me laugh whenever I think about it. I was 14 when I arrived in America.
I can speak English a little bit. Sometimes I translated directly from Thai language. One day I talked with farang friends
but I can't remeber what it is about. I can remember only that I asked them not to tell anybody what I told them. So I say

I: Don't tell who, ok? ("Ya Bok Krai" In Thai it means don't tell anybody...OK?)
Friends: (express confusion) Don't tell who? (It turned to be a question)
I: I said don't tell who
Friends: Who?
I: Yes, don't tell who, ok?
Friends: (showed blank faces) Who?
I: (don't know what I have done) Don't tell whoooooo (make stress sound)

Ha ha ha They don't understand

From : Kaem
-----------------------

When I started chatting with a farang I talked some jokes with him. He finally laughed and said

Farang **hahahahha big mouth girl
I***Yes i know i am not beautiful
Farang**???

I think he literally means I have a big mouth so I get angry. ButiIn fact "big mouth" means having a habit of gossipping on other people's affairs.

From: bellemaman



comment 28
Ian date : 26/07/2007 time : 17.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I have two degrees, I don't think I could prove either of them easily. I had certificate evidence once but somewhere in my years of globe trotting they went missing. I guess if one was that bothered one could check with the Department of Education, or perhaps my teacher's pension might convince you. If all nations had central records offices then it would put Khaosan road out of business.
I must admit a Khaosan road Press card has been useful at times, it can get you into interesting places:-)
comment 27
catch22 date : 26/07/2007 time : 17.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

So why go to England - Khao Sarn Road produces excellent degrees and doctorates. If you get one you can apply for honourary membership to this blogsite.
comment 26
LLCoolM date : 26/07/2007 time : 16.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/LLCoolM

Isn't it more that a degree in Thailand is overrated? Everybody has one. So what?

Then some going to UK to get a better "degree" and show off that they are able to go there(I think that is the main point). They don't care education!
comment 25
GGrass date : 26/07/2007 time : 11.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

i'll be damned!
comment 24
natee date : 26/07/2007 time : 09.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/natee

GGrass: BIG smile there. Actually sent you an email yesterday, but you must not have received it. Yep, went to pRISon and know Chul (among others!). Send me an email with your correct address! Sorry for the inside joke, everyone else!
comment 23
GGrass date : 26/07/2007 time : 09.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

natee: ok, i will direct it to you this comment. Are you familiar with a person with name 'Chatri' or 'Permsak' or 'Paul M./ Paul L.' or 'Clint/Justin/David/Hou U' or 'Chul' or 'Stella M.' or 'Stella T.'? in another words, did u go to pRISon for high school?
comment 22
natee date : 26/07/2007 time : 09.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/natee

pichaya and windy: The Nation's doing extremely well without a majority of overseas graduates! I do take your collective point, but think it's a shame that we live in a society that can be so shallow and vain.

On a minor note, please do not feel offended if I don't respond directly to any comments. I like to interfere in the comments as little as possible, but will respond if anything is directly addressed to me.
comment 21
Ian date : 26/07/2007 time : 06.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

catch22, I had as much hair as Ggrass when I first came to Thailand, now I'm nearly bald from trying to communicate with people who in theory speak English!
comment 20
catch22 date : 25/07/2007 time : 23.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

Natee - my wife (Thai) who has a Masters has read your blog and pointed out one thing, where you say...."many Thai students in the UK portray are little better than a 6th grader at an English speaking school". Now, this is interesting because she read it as you saying 'the Thai students are A little better' (you can see the subtle difference) and her comment was; 'this is rubbish there's no way they are better than a 6th grade student'. So even with someone who has a Masters in English Communication can still get it wrong and she often does, especially when debating with me! Great blog
comment 19
pichaya date : 25/07/2007 time : 21.24
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/pichaya
see me also at http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/everythingthailand

problem is most employers in Thaland they simply hire these people with degress from abroad.

even you have good analytical skill & better english than some students graduated overseas, they won't pick u. do u know this fact Natee?

at least thai employers they like employees from weathy families
comment 18
windy date : 25/07/2007 time : 20.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/lisnaree
Lisnaree Vichitsorasatra

you are too hard on them, at least they tried. not many people can afford to go to international schools since grade one. So they wait until a master's degree to get abroad experience. Hey, at least you can say to your friends "I went to England"

On the other hand I can think up of many things to do with $30,000 rather than get a master's
Perhaps shopping...
Hey, that's the way to save the economy!!
comment 17
redandwhitestripes date : 25/07/2007 time : 20.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/reallifethailand

It's interesting to see "the tables turned" for want of a less sloppy proverb.

I read a lot from us farangs making sense of our new world, it's refreshing to see an analysis from the other end.

I hope you keep up with these articles and maybe post them elsewhere, where they can enjoy a higher readership.
comment 16
Ian date : 25/07/2007 time : 20.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Sorry I posted that unfinished.......... multitasking:-)
Most degrees are now regarded as of little value they have become debased, particularly in the Arts and soft sciences. Employers want Masters or Doctorates.
As to arguing the merits of top universities that is as stupid as comparing oranges with apples. Universities often are subject specialists, they are as good as their faculty staff, staff come and go, a faculty can decline or improve, citations have become a recognised criteria and this gives a bias towards English speaking universities.
comment 15
Ian date : 25/07/2007 time : 20.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Let us seperate personal national pride, from the equation. All education systems are in decline, some faster than others, it is the inevitable result of population growth and demand, and the political need to been seen to creating academic success.
So exams get steadily easier and passes get more numerous and parents, voters and politicians are happy.
At the time I retired, what I had previously tought at "O" level (16 years old) was now being tought at "A" level(18 year olds). This is a universal pattern.
Universities and employers are aware of this problem. In science and engineering faculties there are introducing induction courses or even an extra year.
comment 14
natee date : 25/07/2007 time : 18.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/natee

Thank you for all your comments! Hopefully, a few Thai students thinking of going abroad are among the silent voice here.
count: I don't think UK education, or any form of education, is in any way overrated, but I'll agree on the point that you receive as much as you are willing to put into education. Despite the money being poured into US universities, British research, particularly in the social sciences, continues to be world class.
GGRass: Yes, the title was ambitious and an unabashed attempt to draw people in. mrtsui's point on judging on a case-by-case basis is absolutely correct and was the general impression I tried to give in this blog, despite the title.
comment 13
count_von_dindang date : 25/07/2007 time : 18.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/countvondindang

Dobry! i'm czech, but czech german. So that makes it worst. Haha. I was an engineering student there. We have quite a few Noble prizer winners too in scineces.
comment 12
catch22 date : 25/07/2007 time : 17.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

Ah the home of Nobel prize winner Thomas G. Masaryk - a fine University that suffered greatly under Nazi occupation. I have no doubt that you could kick anyone's butts, but this is a strange saying for a Czech with such fine credentials
comment 11
count_von_dindang date : 25/07/2007 time : 17.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/countvondindang

i went to charles university in prague and i think we can kick oxford student's butts easily too.
comment 10
count_von_dindang date : 25/07/2007 time : 17.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/countvondindang

I like how you put it catch22. They never asked for my diplomas here. I need a PhD from havard - so which shop in Khao san?
comment 9
catch22 date : 25/07/2007 time : 17.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

No need to go through all that pain and expense when you can go to Khao Sarn Road and get the same piece of paper for a 1000 Baht AND choose your own university. A Thai will never show it to anyone anyway especially if its a fake and if its genuine he/she still won't show it because whoever they are showing it to will expect the person to be well educated and good in English, which most likely they will not be - so its a catch22 either way.
comment 8
count_von_dindang date : 25/07/2007 time : 17.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/countvondindang

hi. I'm new here. But I like what natee wrote. i think UK education ios overated. you see so many stupid people with uk degrees - even british people themselves! all research money are going into American universities now.
comment 7
catch22 date : 25/07/2007 time : 17.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

GG - Hmmm, ja ich bin licht sprechen zer anima and animus mit sere, but since you went on this gay kick I'm a bit reluctant
comment 6
GGrass date : 25/07/2007 time : 17.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

catch22: what are you, Carl22? i was expecting some good UK butt kicking but i see it's the other way around... coming from natee, i was looking forward to see an undebatable UK butt assault. instead, i see the opposite, the only thing that's up to my expectation being undebatable.

so i had to pick on his choice of title. what else can i pick on?
comment 5
catch22 date : 25/07/2007 time : 16.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

Oh come on Sigmund GG, don't be so fixated - just because he never slagged off the British education system as you expected when you opened the blog, you have to assume it was a subconcious heading. Maybe he just wanted to catch people's attention. Looking at natee, I'm sure if he wanted to talk about bad experiences he is able to if he wants - he just didn't want to.....this time. It's certainly not an easy ride for anyone not up to scratch in English or unable to debate or defend arguments but as mrtsui says it should be decided on a case-by-case basis and if mum and dad really want that for their kids and they have the money and they know the score, well it's up to them.
comment 4
Ian date : 25/07/2007 time : 16.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I totally agree with Natee, and remember I see this from the other side of the coin, a British ex teacher and lecturer. The "dumbing down" of Masters degrees for overseas students is so blatent that universities run two groups for the same course, an English/EU group and an overseas/Asian one.
As has been shown in these blogs, Thais cannot debate, they have to be provoked to anger before they will react. Again these blogs clearly demonstrate how, with a few exceptions, educated Thais have poor language skills.
Natee has very clearly and precisely detailed the problem both with the Thai education system and the Thai culture. I am glad to see that he has risen above both.
comment 3
GGrass date : 25/07/2007 time : 15.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

Natee: you mentioned three reasons in your blog, reason number 1 being the 'most obvious', 2nd reason being 'less spoken of, but painfully true', and the third reason being 'last but not least'.

i disagree.

i would put them ALL THREE in THE MOST AND EQUALLY IMPORTANT list.

However, to say 'DO NOT GO TO UK', is to undermine many people's intellegence, i.e. mrtsui.

While I cannot find any argument against your three reasons, and I appreciate your last paragraph's well intention, I believe your title give out a bad message, however unintentional.

I thougth you were gonna talk about how the UK people mistreat the Thai students, and how the UK society has nothing to learn, thus not worth our money. If you have said, 'Points to overcome before going to UK', it would have been much better.

hey hey hey, i'm not trying to influence you. i can see how you could have thought the title 'Studying in UK, DO NOT COME', sure.

You might have subconciously wanting to tell people not to goto UK because of the bad experiences you might have had with them, and you subconciously chose that phrase as your title, who knows?

by the way, may i ask where you went to for your high school? you do look very familiar...
comment 2
Jiwamol date : 25/07/2007 time : 15.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Jiwamol
XXX

I think some Thais want to get English language skill but are too lazy to practice. They just think of some easy ways out like going abroad for a few years without preparing. They think that going abroad is the panacea.
comment 1
mrtsui date : 25/07/2007 time : 15.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mrtsuisays

How else could we learn, if we're not thrown into the deep end? I have spent my formative years in the British education system. And I would say personal and academic growth came from, for instance, arguing or defending my case in a classroom/seminar or quarrelling with the student union's president for sidelining my student society. Whether or not studying abroad is a sound investment for Thais should be judged on a case-by-case basis.

I have witnessed Thai MBA student, who now works as an investment banker in a multinational bank, hiring Chula student to writer his/her thesis. My high school calculus teacher used to tell me: "You can bring a horse to the river, but you won't be able to make him drink."

On the other hand, people like my dad, who was thrown in a boarding school in Long Eaton, came out all the more stronger - mentally and academically, warding off racist classmates with a tennis raquet, etc. (It's ghetto life, I can tell you.)

To see the cup half-full, Thai students would have to work harder to compete with locals when it comes to studying and preparing for classes. It's an osmosis.

But the earlier Thais get used to the "an unexamined life is not worth living" mentality the better.
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