Max Headroom's Political Kitchen

Max Headroom - cyber space myth, vigilante of the digital underground and self proclaimed insider in the information business.
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Wednesday , June 17 , 2009

Ramdom afterthoughts

Posted by MaxHeadroom , Reader : 2437 , 00:23:57

The time since early May has been a busy one, hardly leaving any much space for blogging. No question - this is a time of intense pressure for Thai industry and many businesses. It's all about trouble shooting, managing the unmanageable, making ends meet and reversing the trend. This situation feels, tastes and smells like war and it surely has all the side effects of it. Trying to counter balance the economic, social and political chaos is like trying to get clear vision in dense fog - you need a radar and you have to be resourceful. Quintessentially, Thai businesses have been standing on their own to face the full brunt of the global economic crisis without any significant help from their government since it began. The stimulus package ... well that has vanished and evaporated without any effect. Or maybe I should better say without most people ever having seen where everything other than the 2000 Baht actually went. What do businesses do when they are faced with a parliament of whores and a cabinet of morons? Well they hope that the bureaucrats don't take anything they invent too serious and then - typically Thai - they wait and see. At least the good part of them. Those that wait and see can do so if they are sitting on a pile of land deeds and reserves that guarantees them a comfortable life style for the next 100 years or so. Thailand surely has its fair share of rich people. The bulk has to work to keep their livelihoods and prevent their business from going bankrupt. If they were to play 'wait and see' they'd be out of business by now. Some, of course are already. The problem with most businesses in Thailand is that they view themselves on a molecular level and hardly understand the full macro-economic impacts of underperforming administrations on their small scale operations - or even if they do, they will not see it as their part to intervene in order to call for political reform or a more competent administration. They would rather adapt to any obstacles caused by politics - by circumventing and working around - than to address its root cause or remove it. At this stage business can only expect help from other businesses, industry can only try to forge emergency measures on its own. After almost 4 years into chaos this country has seen a lot of nonsense and still not come to terms to take action. The power mongers have successfully divided the country and polarized the society. They have reduced the constitution and the foundations of the state to rubble and hollow shells without significant resistance by the silent majority. In light of this, self preservation is at times the best option for people that do not have the aforementioned wealth reserves. This means get back to work and save your own ass. After all what's the gain trying to talk sense with a bunch of half-baked sleepwalkers. But still when the night gets dark and the lights go dim one wonders about a society discussing the deaths of a few innocent as not enough to take action while at the same time thousands have died and scores die everyday in a bloody civil war. The later has taken on serious proportions and has escalated into a scenery that could resemble Baghdad or Islamabad or Lebanon. Similarly to the last - it's also a small stretch of land engulfed in hostilities fueled by many parties - all of which using the people who actually live there as a chip in their game. In our case the 4 main parties - the power mongering generals and their proxy politicians of the Democrat party, the PULO, Malaysia and the local splinter groups of Al Quaeda are pretty much determined to escalate this conflict at all cost. For the dark side of the military this escalation has a political agenda - this is Plan C now in effect. So while Gen. Sonthi is forming his new party and the circle around his mentor dreams about a power center in the south, the stage is set for terrorism to spread to other parts of the country. You will find plenty of people trying to deny this, but apart from all the fools out there you have to admit that any such playing down the current threat sound like a witness in Chicago 1930 saying 'the mafia - I thought they don't exist'. It's like trying to make out any real information in a country with military controlled, censored media, led by a puppet government that has military shoot at its opponents while closing down all free remaining community radio stations and erecting a policestate. At times thought even the propaganda organs are simply too stupid to cover up the truth. Just like with the sunken containers found in the Gulf of Thailand into which the military divers inserted miniature cameras through a tiny whole to discover nothing but sharks. Now how stupid is that? Let me guess - the sharks got in there when they were really tiny like that fiber optic camera and then just grew bigger. Maybe the military just wanted to protect the wildlife with its total 10km exclusion zone around the containers that lasted 2 months. In a sense Khamala was right to give up on reading the few English speaking Thai dailies - after all you can spend your time more creatively and will find more truth in a grain of sand than around here.

The time since early May has been a busy one, hardly leaving any much space for blogging. No question - this is a time of intense pressure for Thai industry and many businesses. It's all about trouble shooting, managing the unmanageable, making ends meet and reversing the trend. This situation feels, tastes and smells like war and it surely has all the side effects of it. Trying to counter balance the economic, social and political chaos is like trying to get clear vision in dense fog - you need a radar and you have to be resourceful.

Quintessentially, Thai businesses have been standing on their own to face the full brunt of the global economic crisis without any significant help from their government since it began. The stimulus package ... well that has vanished and evaporated without any effect. Or maybe I should better say without most people ever having seen where everything other than the 2000 Baht actually went.

What do businesses do when they are faced with a parliament of whores and a cabinet of morons? Well they hope that the bureaucrats don't take anything they invent too serious and then - typically Thai - they wait and see. At least the good part of them. Those that wait and see can do so if they are sitting on a pile of land deeds and reserves that guarantees them a comfortable life style for the next 100 years or so. Thailand surely has its fair share of rich people. The bulk has to work to keep their livelihoods and prevent their business from going bankrupt. If they were to play 'wait and see' they'd be out of business by now. Some, of course are already.

The problem with most businesses in Thailand is that they view themselves on a molecular level and hardly understand the full macro-economic impacts of underperforming administrations on their small scale operations - or even if they do, they will not see it as their part to intervene in order to call for political reform or a more competent administration. They would rather adapt to any obstacles caused by politics - by circumventing and working around - than to address its root cause or remove it.

At this stage business can only expect help from other businesses, industry can only try to forge emergency measures on its own.

After almost 4 years into chaos this country has seen a lot of nonsense and still not come to terms to take action. The power mongers have successfully divided the country and polarized the society. They have reduced the constitution and the foundations of the state to rubble and hollow shells without significant resistance by the silent majority. In light of this, self preservation is at times the best option for people that do not have the aforementioned wealth reserves. This means get back to work and save your own ass. After all what's the gain trying to talk sense with a bunch of half-baked sleepwalkers.

But still when the night gets dark and the lights go dim one wonders about a society discussing the deaths of a few innocent as not enough to take action while at the same time thousands have died and scores die everyday in a bloody civil war. The later has taken on serious proportions and has escalated into a scenery that could resemble Baghdad or Islamabad or Lebanon. Similarly to the last - it's also a small stretch of land engulfed in hostilities fueled by many parties - all of which using the people who actually live there as a chip in their game. In our case the 4 main parties - the power mongering generals and their proxy politicians of the Democrat party, the PULO, Malaysia and the local splinter groups of Al Quaeda are pretty much determined to escalate this conflict at all cost. For the dark side of the military this escalation has a political agenda - this is Plan C now in effect. So while Gen. Sonthi is forming his new party and the circle around his mentor dreams about a power center in the south, the stage is set for terrorism to spread to other parts of the country.

You will find plenty of people trying to deny this, but apart from all the fools out there you have to admit that any such playing down the current threat sound like a witness in Chicago 1930 saying 'the mafia - I thought they don't exist'. It's like trying to make out any real information in a country with military controlled, censored media, led by a puppet government that has military shoot at its opponents while closing down all free remaining community radio stations and erecting a policestate.

At times thought even the propaganda organs are simply too stupid to cover up the truth. Just like with the sunken containers found in the Gulf of Thailand into which the military divers inserted miniature cameras through a tiny whole to discover nothing but sharks. Now how stupid is that? Let me guess - the sharks got in there when they were really tiny like that fiber optic camera and then just grew bigger. Maybe the military just wanted to protect the wildlife with its total 10km exclusion zone around the containers that lasted 2 months.

In a sense Khamala was right to give up on reading the few English speaking Thai dailies - after all you can spend your time more creatively and will find more truth in a grain of sand than around here.

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comment 228
notdisappointed date : 11/07/2009 time : 20.31

maxwell 218, 221, 2224, regarding Royal pardon. No answer anout whether it proper for reds and you, and pj to agitate for a Royal pardon against protocol.

"Thaksin ends trip around South Pacific and come to roost in Dubai
By The Nation
Published on July 11, 2009

The Corrections Department, the primary agency in charge of processing pardon petitions, yesterday released a report saying the Criminal Procedural Code was clear on the issue.

A convicted offender must comply with the verdict and serve time before becoming eligible for a royal pardon.

In Thaksin's case, he is a fugitive who fled the country, and his graft verdict was read in absentia.

Articles 259 and 260 of the code make it clear Thaksin has no grounds for a pardon unless he decides to surrender himself and begin serving his two-year prison term."

Do you understand now maxwell and do your agree with the reds try to have HMK over-ride the constitution and the rule of law for thaksin the hero of democracy?

comment 227
notdisappointed date : 07/07/2009 time : 19.03

Thanks for that maxwell; I guess that I I'm in the wrong. So what was it that the reds were petitioning HMK for again?

So is there a protocol or established procedure according to the constitution or rule of law for making a request for a pardon? If not how can they go about it?

You are still waffling maxwell. Your twistings and turnings are making you a bit dippsy.

comment 226
MaxHeadroom date : 07/07/2009 time : 15.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

For a convicted criminal serving time that would be a pardon not amnesty. Amnesty would be to ask for protection against prosecution.

Your short list of 'must reads' speaks more than a thousand words - for the rest of the audience here and to complete your trial - no further questions your honor.

comment 225
notdisappointed date : 07/07/2009 time : 14.54

Nietzsche and 'Mein Kampf' should be read, with others e.g. Mao, Nixon, Eisenhower, Plato, Pythagoras, Clinton, Jefferson, Montgomery, Meade, Jack Welch, Warren Buffet and a whole host of others, of whom I’ve tried to refer you in my many postings to you, in my un-sung quest to have you thinking more broadly and sincerely, instead of so narrowly and negatively - this to enable broad-minded thought and firm stance in reality. But in your case maxwell, the results of your reading seems to creates further lies, deception, and animosities giving you a depressive demeanor and leading to a doomsday demorgogery. You also use it to beat down your detractors. For example, you use Nazi propaganda techniques to support your own arguments and as a tool to attack your detractors. (But as I've said I'll get to that, still collating.)

You have run into an observation that you cannot answer directly therefore you distort and waffle. Don't twist the truth, you know full well that there is a protocol to be followed in the case of a making a fromal request for a Royal amnesty for a convicted crimninal who is 'serving time'. It states in detail, who can make such a formal request, and the process and procedure it must go through.

My question to you was; how can you condone the proposition of a amnesty petition request that has no formal protocol and procedure. That has no established precedent and thus will create distree to KMK because he cannot by law and protocol, take any consideration of it.

comment 224
MaxHeadroom date : 06/07/2009 time : 17.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

Now that's what Nietzsche has done to you

It shows reading books is one thing understanding the content another.

Which part of (2) you didn't understand?

Your protocol is simply your opinion and I don't have to share that - scream about it as much as you want or curse as much as you like - in this country your opinion is not the law - luckily that is.

comment 223
notdisappointed date : 06/07/2009 time : 16.03

Perhaps Maxwell you should read and understand Nietzsche not as a manifesto for Nazism but for some useful dictums. One of those dictums that you should keep in mind as you make your public rants against all things COUP: “If it doesn’t kill you it’ll make you stronger.”

As I’m sure that your propaganda, distortions, and cry of ‘wolf’ on the Nation’s weblog, that Thailand is navigating turbulent waters due to the COUP and a government which is coup-derived; is just manipulation of yours and your ilk’s contrivance.

That, and in any case, this journey will be a good thing for the country. And looking beyond Nietzsche’s formulation; it’s also true that if it doesn’t kill you (which it won’t), it will make the country more liberated in thought, kinder, smarter, and more aware of the connivance of you and your confederates.

You’ve had your easy run over these past years seducing those who are unaware and political naive with your ‘on high’ sermons. As though you were the know all and end all of the situation in Thailand; and there’s no need to look elsewhere for information and edification. You are their instant ‘getification’ for facts and ‘inside’ information. An articulate red and provocateur in disguise; you pulled it off, until now.

People didn't know enough and hadn’t been warned to beware your emotional manipulation, subliminal seduction, and the temptation to believe the perfectly formed vents from a politically frustrated and purveyor of one-sided angst.

It’s the coup!! Nothing else is more important then that is it. You parrot the reds and you connive for and on behalf of your hero thaksin.

No longer.

comment 222
notdisappointed date : 06/07/2009 time : 15.34

So like some of the leaders of the reds, who were communists a while back do not want a petition to be filed; you have no problems with other red leaders actioning the petiton as is their right.

You say it's a a personal oinion of mine; well show me then how it is legal, proper and according to protocol. Show me the proof that it's just a personal opinion and does not go against protocol.

You're the lawyer prove it.

comment 221
MaxHeadroom date : 06/07/2009 time : 10.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

1: Yes
2: ND - that's probably an opinion of yours not a legal reality. I do not share your opinion.

Who established what procedures? Who defines which protocol is proper or improper? Opinions, traditions and firm beliefs at times take on the status of 'laws' for some people. But they are not.

comment 220
MaxHeadroom date : 06/07/2009 time : 10.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

ND: what sense does it make to confirm the very same prejudice over and and over again for you? It's the same as reading 'Mein Kampf' every day just to keep your hatred fed.

comment 219
notdisappointed date : 05/07/2009 time : 22.25

maxwell, sorry for hounding you on your other blog, the 13th one attacking this government. I just found your answer on this one.

But it's half an answer or is it an answer to both.

1. You don't support the petition for amnesty.
2. You can allow that "Everybody, however is free to follow their own beliefs and as such they have the right to make requests for a de facto exiled friend of theirs." Even if it means that they are doing it improperly and against established procedure and protocols; which was my point.

You're waffling!

Again!

You are real good at 'double-speak'. You must be a lawyer.

Any relation in your sad gene pool to snakes by any chance?

And your loyaties have been confirmed. Thank you maxwell.

comment 218
MaxHeadroom date : 05/07/2009 time : 20.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

So to make this clear: I have not supported and am not supporting anything in relation to any royal amnesty or pardon. Everybody, however is free to follow their own beliefs and as such they have the right to make requests for a de facto exiled friend of theirs.

An amnesty would be for Thaksin's opponents what an unfair trial and a coup is for his supporters. Only when true justice can prevail can this matter be settled. The later cannot be achieved by amnesty or pardons - neither for Thaksin nor for the coup makers - all have to be tried and given a fair chance to defend themselves in a court of law.

And here a word not many people want to hear: being the supreme is in reality impossible to be completely separated from politics. Surely, we would like the crown to be protected from any abuse but the role of a constitutional monarch is not apolitical by nature. So the monarch too has a right for both an opinion and have his voice heard.

Sometimes to be silent is also viewed as a statement by people. And silence automatically offering more room for interpretations and hearsay which is why sometimes a straight word is not a bad thing.

I our political reality there comes great responsibility with power. So it may not be always wise to exclude yourself from the opinion making process. Especially when it is a matter addressing the future of the country, freedom and democracy and not just daily politics.

comment 217
notdisappointed date : 05/07/2009 time : 13.33

maxwell, you're waffling, again.

I didn't ask you about no pardon. I asked you if you agreed with the intent and action on the part of reds/veeera/jatuporn/nattawut on behalf of thaksin to request a Royal amnesty. Request for Royal amnesty not pardon; two differnet matters.

Do you think that it is done properly according to protocol. Is is handled with propreity or impropriety?

Should HMK be dragged into this political game?

maxwell you're smart and crafty enough to know what I mean; don't play the fool. Yopu're waffling and side-steping may be cute for pj and your supporters, but it plain to see that you're trying to dance away from answering a simple question.

Do you support the actions of the reds: and do you think it proper? Just a simple Y/N for each is sufficient.

comment 216
MaxHeadroom date : 05/07/2009 time : 12.30
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

But ND - if you are not biased then maybe you have a good set of double standards. People have been pardoned for worse offenses, given amnesty for capital crimes or given asylum even though they committed genocide - all in this country. Royal pardons, amnestys and a biased judiciary - let's not forget out legal system full of loopholes.

You could say pardoning for the sake of keeping peace and status quo is a very Thai thing.

So if you are against pardoning Thaksin why are you not screaming as loudly to bring the PAD to justice or against the amnesty of Sonthi and the other coup makers?

I am against pardoning Thaksin because he didn't get a fair trial in the beginning and was not removed from power by legal means. So he is innocent until proven guilty by an unbiased judiciary and until tried in a court of law under a democratically elected government with total certainty that no dark figures in the background have decided the outcome upfront.

So he does not need any royal pardon.

Again you see that in reality most people will laugh at that - I mean when will we ever see an independent judiciary or be free of shadowy military and power mongers controlling parliament and the judiciary?

comment 215
MaxHeadroom date : 05/07/2009 time : 12.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

Thaksin is no hero - I said that a hundred times or more I guess so stop being silly ND. Grow up. What good does it make to run like a bull after a red cloth?

ND if I had to comment on everything the day would be over without doing anything productive. So stop asking what Max can do for you but what you can do for your country

comment 214
notdisappointed date : 04/07/2009 time : 21.22

And I never said I supported any use of HMK for plitical purposes.

Unlike you I am not biased and I can tell right from wrong. I don't blindly support PAD. I supported PAD and the coup because it got rid of a vile politician; viler than most. NOw that that's been accomplisehed I see no more reason to support them unless their goals and policies matches my own.

I support my country and my King.

comment 213
notdisappointed date : 04/07/2009 time : 21.18

maxwell then that means you have no comments about what your hero and his nominees are trying to do with respect to their seeking a Royal amnesty for himself.

Avoiding a direct answer is an answer in and of itself. It shows to me your unwavering support for thaksin and your blind hate for all things coup.

At the expense of your KING.

Now we Thais who love and respect HMK know where you stand maxwell. Not with HMK but with your hero thaksin. Shame on you and you're supposed to be educated and not easily fooled; not fooled but deaf, dumb, and bilnd.

No wonder you also try to denigrate the actions of the coup makers who deposed thaksin.

comment 212
MaxHeadroom date : 04/07/2009 time : 21.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

Forgot to say: the PAD and the Dems as well as the military have been no different in abusing the monarchy for their daily purpose in power mongering. So - ND - if you would like to see problems make no exceptions by viewing them through color filtering sun glasses.

comment 211
MaxHeadroom date : 04/07/2009 time : 21.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

Expresso: energy stocks have rebounded quite well, but the market here is not free from insider trading so it's not good to view it as a short time strategy to invest.

I have NOT invested in any stock lately but instead expand my own business. That's still better than speculation because you have more influence on the outcome.

ND: it sure is bigger than Abhisit - I wish he would understand that it's bigger than him and that as an adult - not a kindergarten kid - he'd better not trade all integrity for political opportunities.

comment 210
notdisappointed date : 04/07/2009 time : 16.45

What else can I do?

Respond as to your expectations; as that's all you are willing to understand.

comment 209
BangkokRay date : 04/07/2009 time : 13.34

nd,
The kind of response I expected. When you have no answers, what else can you do.

comment 208
notdisappointed date : 04/07/2009 time : 12.24

br, as usual you and as is your perchance, you misinterpret everything.

How sad for you. That retirement hasn't mellowed you or given you peace of mind and a flexible attitude.

comment 207
BangkokRay date : 04/07/2009 time : 12.09

nd, 204 writes to br:

Did you read about that old Korean woman who has failed her driving test 800 times? Or the guy who applied for a position at 25 Pizza Huts in 20 cities without being hired? There is something about you that resembles these persisitently frustrated people.

But with teancity and your dogged persistence, you should be able to overcome and achieve some modrate success and perhaps even more if you make a further effort to free your mind of its backlog of sad images

disappointing,
There you go again, making you characterizations of me with. In the past you've slandered my parents, my children and my integrity. Now you seem to make a characterization about my personal success. Perhaps I am a failure in your eyes, but being only two years your elder, I retired 100% at the age of 56 last year. Furthermore, I can likely guarantee you that my monthly income, "in retirement" far exceeds your income by going to work every day. I could be wrong, perhaps you and your high class family might be involved in some "high income" endeavor.
So, you see, I may buy a Pizza Hut, but I won't be applying for a job at one any time soon.
Now, disappointing, would you like me to say some nice things about your family?

comment 206
expresso date : 04/07/2009 time : 02.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Max, c188, thanks for your answers, but I was asking about your personal investments such as in the stock market.

As I recall, you recommended investment in the energy stocks when I thought they should have been sold. In the 97, were you also fooled? Were you hesitant to sell off because you thought there was sporadic government interventions in the stock market?

People who analyze too much and speak too good an English elaborating this and that, I have found them always not able to get good timings and become suckers!

comment 205
notdisappointed date : 04/07/2009 time : 00.11

I think that my views and opinions are more pragmatic then most of you anti-coup bloggers, e.g.maxwell and pj.

I have not heard even a whimper as to your thoughts on the propriety of the petition to get a Royal amnesty for thaksin.

Don't you care enough for this minor detail that you have to rant about the LM law?

And disregard the game being played by thaksin and his crew at the expense of your KING!

Your silence in this matter shows blatantly your quisling nature that you cannot bring yourself to defend your KING but must side with those who are anti-coup and who are also playing a dangerous game that you support.

comment 204
notdisappointed date : 03/07/2009 time : 14.21

br, Sorry, I been so busy giving maxwell inspiration and advice, I forgot all about your own trials and tribulations.

Did you read about that old Korean woman who has failed her driving test 800 times? Or the guy who applied for a position at 25 Pizza Huts in 20 cities without being hired? There is something about you that resembles these persisitently frustrated people.

But with teancity and your dogged persistence, you should be able to overcome and achieve some modrate success and perhaps even more if you make a further effort to free your mind of its backlog of sad images.

Some people use sly intelligence rater than mindless rage to escape limitations that have outlived their usefulness. You could use some inspiration or counsel as you make your own break for freedom. The best way to ensure that your liberation is permanent is to go about it with humility and subtlety, and humility.

comment 203
notdisappointed date : 03/07/2009 time : 14.05

Finally something we agree on. Corrupt politicians will always find some rationale to justify their half truths and true lies. Because their audience will always listen if given an incentive such a hand-outs and giveaways.

Thai voters could actually care less about what their leaders do as long as they get something. Don't forget the recent poll that disgustingly prove this fact. Thais have been so inured to graft and corruption that they feel that it's the normal part of the business of governance.

What are we teaching our children? Forget about kindergarten children just look at their parents who have lost their morality and any sense of integrity. What have we, when have we, as a country, a people digresed so far down this vile trail that as long as the people see that the government is doing something it becomes acceptable for their to be graft and corruption.

For our politicians 2 + 2 does equal 5. Where does that addtition go? Into a deficit for the country in which our children, your children have to take responsibility for.

You're beginning to understand that it's bigger than just the coup, or Abhisit; it's us, a nation, as a culture, as a people; we have let this state of affairs slowly overwhelm our commonsense and have accepted the 'dark side'.

comment 202
MaxHeadroom date : 03/07/2009 time : 10.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

ND: I think that's what most screwed up corrupt politicians will do: find a quote that someone for whatever reason and in whatever context said that 2+2=5 and sell that to their audience as a reason to believe their transcendent bullshit while they corrupt and steal all the money and the others are still flying high on cloud No. 9 thinking about their new sublime ways for seeing things.

Whatta long ugly sentence that was. But see, you can find a way out here: just take all of the 2+2=5 stuff and try to make people believe stuff like that by drugging and brainwashing them, or just buy them to support your ideas - 'coz that's the only way it will work as every 1st grader or kindergarten kid would shake their heads.

comment 201
BangkokRay date : 03/07/2009 time : 00.15

nd 194 was describing his Prozak taking effect. He'll be mellow for 12 more hours.

comment 200
notdisappointed date : 02/07/2009 time : 15.29

Ian, you are so lazy! All you have to do, is do a name search for the blogger; simple. English countryside life is making you sloth-ish.

I want to get back to maxwell’s c168 and his calculations which pricked my memory of something I had read. Now I’ve remembered.

“The formula ‘2 + 2 = 5’ is not without its attractions”, said Dostoevsky. Maxwell I believe that you would benefit from embracing that perspective; to transcend logic. Being a little ‘crooked’ could awaken the sleeping wisdom within you. So follow any hunches that you may have that inspire you to stop making so much sense. Explore the pleasures of using imaginative flair in your search for the truth.

200!

comment 199
Ian date : 02/07/2009 time : 04.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Well here is one more comment, I'm sure it will provoke another.
As I have just said in Krajog's Blog nearby, "I will not be posting any further in this blog, not for any emotional reason, it has simply become too tedious finding it in the list. The Nation needs to sort itself out.

See you back on the front page

comment 198
maverick263 date : 01/07/2009 time : 22.42

@ max, c.185:

thx 4 making me smile na

"C183/184: You understand little about the world outside of your nutshell."

555 :-))))) big wide smile to you & everybody else na

in case you know a way to change it... pls lemme know na.

in case you don't know... i guess, nobody does :-)

comment 197
notdisappointed date : 01/07/2009 time : 19.20

Ian, maxwell and I were never that far apart to begin with but he got confused by his rethoric, the trees, and forgot to see the forest, big picture.

His need for major evasive surgery might have ended up disfiguring the patient for life.

maxwell, I'm nearing my persoanl goal to get you to 200 (that's 2,000% on your spamometer). 3 more to go! Wooowee!!

We make a good team if you weren't so uppity!

comment 196
Ian date : 01/07/2009 time : 18.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

i think we are starting to see a convergence of ideas between Max and ND, they are like two doctors brought in as consultants for a very sick person. Both want to cure the patient, both seem to understand the disease, what they cannot as yet agree on is how the disease was contracted and what is the best cure. But the important thing is they agree as to what the disease is.

comment 195
notdisappointed date : 01/07/2009 time : 16.43

maxwell; now why would I be screaming. Only that you’ve seen the truth? That you’ve mellowed somewhat? Congratualations! Reds - Yellows; they’re all tools for change. I do not support all of the PAD’s views nor do I malign all of the reds’ rethoric. They are both good for change.

But it’s not AV’s fault. He inherited and is trying to survive with his integrity intact, our Thai culture of selfish self-serving political gamesmanship. It more then AV, it’s more than the coup(s) - it’s us as a people. The Thai people; us; we; you and I, through our abdication of our democratic, social and civic responsibility; allowed our people to accept graft and corruption as a way of life and as a part of our democracy. When did this happen? This slow and it seemingly inevitable creep towards acceptance of the basic greed in our culture and society.

This is what is harming our people; we, are harming ourselves. That we allow our politicians to govern on our behalf; that is our abdication of our responsibility. No it’s not right to say: yes thaksin (or whichever politician at the time) did good for the country so it’s alright that he got something for it. No it’s not alright. It’s damn wrong. I’m not talking about democracy I’m talking about honesty, morality and integrity. The basic underpinnings of true democracy. Not this bullshit we have now.

That’s my basic premise. I won’t agree to the theory and premise that Thaialnd has to become the trough for politicians to slaver over because they do good by us. This type of acceptance must be smacked down and if we need to, we will have to start all over again and again. Because we cannot allow greed and corruption to take hold again and again.

Ian c.181, I agree with you!

comment 194
notdisappointed date : 01/07/2009 time : 16.24

maxwell, thank you for coming back down from your fortress of solitude. I knew or rather hoped that after all the good-intentioned postings I’ve made for your benefit that the light in your eyes would be a little less foggy, the fire in your belly to be smoldering, and your brain to be hicupping.

After the non-stop breakthroughs we’ve made together; I expected that you would need time to slow down and let everything sink in. I would now recommend that you cultivate a low-key contentment as your deep mind integrates the transformations that have been set in motion.

Sometimes in in this sort of therapy to jostle your mental blocks, repetitious fantasies, and obsessive habits. What we want to do is shake them in a way that will break them into pieces and dissiptae them.

Any minute now you may begin to fell a pleasurable buring sensation in your soft underbelly, or a prickly wake-up call in your will power, or a ticklish electricity running through your funny bone. What does it mean? Maybe nothing. Or, it maybe it means so much that you can’t possibly analyze it’s meaning. What a valuable gift that would be!

When was it the last time you felt the need to have to understand everything?

comment 193
happyjack date : 01/07/2009 time : 14.47

Thai Culture is not the same as it was.Within Families,some are pro monarchy, some not.At one time they echoed Dads every whim.My Wife wouldn't enter any discussion like this,but her Sister wouldn't shut up.Her Moms a Wat Brain,Her Dad was Indifferent to anything he couldn't control,our Children 25 and 27hate the Thai System and want out.I just cant see the System here ever working as long as the Old Folks stop there greed.

comment 192
noonin date : 01/07/2009 time : 13.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

I am a Thai and I hear it from you people all the time 'this is Thailand' 'this is Thailand' 'but this is Thailand'

Am I "you people?"
Who tells you this?

For Whom the Bell Tolls
by John Donne

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.

Change the word Europe to World.

comment 191
noonin date : 01/07/2009 time : 13.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

You know people like you CORRUPT Thai culture, you try to make the worst of the worst acceptable for kiddy time TV.

How can I corrupt Thai culture?
If a culture is strong it is not corruptible.
I have no interest in corrupting Thai culture.
I accept Thai culture and hate those that wish to corrupt it.
Change can come without corruption.
I am a simple soul,not in the least xenophobic.

comment 190
noonin date : 01/07/2009 time : 13.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Please explain this comment:
afraid of someone not running after the coyotes as you would like to brand your cliche farangs?

Truly I have no idea what you mean.

comment 189
noonin date : 01/07/2009 time : 13.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Comment 185

I should like to reply, but I do not understand you.
We are on different wave lengths.
Beware of you bedfellows!

comment 188
MaxHeadroom date : 01/07/2009 time : 11.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C186: It's difficult to give absolute numbers as some of the business was upcoming and no final but it's something like that:
- coup: got investors from Scandinavia to jump ship first and abondon the outsourcing projects. That cost Thailand about 500 well paid jobs (THB 25,000 up) and me about THB 10 million / year
- 30% rule: caused most projects based on institutional funding from abroad to collapse. Damage approx. THB 40-50M / year.
- Violence / airport occupations: cost approx. THB 150,000 in delays and about THB 1.5M in lost sales
- Postponing / delays of public spending: cost approx. THB 6M in projects to be waiting for reactivation until today
- cash-flow crunch by customers 2006 - 2007 not related to global recession cost around THB 10-20M in projects

C187: Of course no one wants to be fathered nor does anyone like the kind of people travelling around the globe pretending to know the answer to everything. But I think it's clear that Ian is not one of them. Also with the many problems he must be facing with our ever more closed off and hermetic society that has deaf ears to any kind of criticism and prefers sugar daddy farangs that pay well and are entertaining and don't give a damn what it looks like in this country.

Again - I don't mean living here as foreigner earns you the right to go beyond constructive criticism or put down an entire society in collective guilt - that starts 'you and your country...'

Also - there might be unique problems to the Thai situation.

But - corruption, nepotism, anarchy, military dictatorship and autocracy are all but problems unique to the Thai situation. They can be found and seen and experienced first hand in many countries. So to try to explain that with 'but you don't know Thailand' is a s stupid as 'you and your country'.

Anyway I hate this trend towards a xenophobic, closed off and intolerant society that I see here.

comment 187
happyjack date : 01/07/2009 time : 08.10

Max 187,some ferangs are like Groupies,and creep round Thais to curry what they think is respect.In fact there Fawning to Thais is not wanted.Thai Wives are the least impressed,often referring to the Male as On Air.weak person.

comment 186
expresso date : 01/07/2009 time : 02.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Max, how much money had you lost on the occasions that you mentioned?

comment 185
MaxHeadroom date : 30/06/2009 time : 22.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C183/184: You understand little about the world outside of your nutshell. If prejudice is all that our society can produce to cope with some critical comments it's a sign of intellectual poverty. Luckily, you are not representing a majority just a xenophobic ignorant.

If we make the headlines with 30% rules or coups or military shooting at demonstrators or PMs getting sacked over a cooking show, we have to accept all sorts of criticism and mockery. That's what you get in a globalized world.

Anyway Ian is not an alien and you are not Thailand and he is not seeing everything from far away through the media but right from his TV screen and out of his windows. So NoOneIsIn - what's you point - afraid of someone not running after the coyotes as you would like to brand your cliche farangs?

I am a Thai and I hear it from you people all the time 'this is Thailand' 'this is Thailand' 'but this is Thailand'

Lately I even heard 'you should know Thai culture'.

You know people like you CORRUPT Thai culture, you try to make the worst of the worst acceptable for kiddy time TV.

Don't be surprised that some people don't want your anti-socials to get the upper hand and will oppose your efforts.

comment 184
noonin date : 30/06/2009 time : 21.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Ian ,
Do you really want a boring world?
What would you have to complain about?
All you ask for exists in the West, why do you not live there?
I know why I live here.
It is your choice, please do not expect the East to be the West.
Do not be a Bush, Nixon!

comment 183
noonin date : 30/06/2009 time : 20.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Ian,
I agree, but please remember this is Thailand. It has to find its own way.
Imperialists always know better, perhaps they do, but it does not always help.
Whatever, Thai will be Thai and I love them.

comment 182
Ian date : 30/06/2009 time : 01.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

correction: "I want to see the total of the military from politics"

add the word "removal" after "total".

comment 181
Ian date : 30/06/2009 time : 01.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Well Max, I am Orange with a reddish tinge, I would be more reddish if Thaksin was out of the picture.
I want a Thailand where recent events at the airport would simply not be possible, where policemen are seen as friends and valued and respected members of the community.
I want a Thailand free from corruption, where politicians and government officials seek to do their jobs honourably.
I want to see a bicameral parliamentary system, with a strong government and a strong opposition.
I want to see a strong and fair legal system and judiciary, where rich and poor get equal treatment.
I want to see the total of the military from politics, and I don't want to see Generals retiring into sinecure jobs.
I want to see a drastic reduction in Generals, why does TRhailand need a Thousand of them.
I want a free and effective health service and an education system that really works.
I want to see the roads, rail and airlines run in an effective manner.
I want to see the agricultural sector modernised.
I want to see government more decentralised, more decisions taken at the local level.
I want better sanitation, better hygiene.
Yes, I know I want Utopia, but it will not happen in my lifetime if at all. Thailand is in the grip of a group of geriatrics who will never relinquish their power until they are dead. Unfortunately the damage they will have done may be beyond repair.

comment 180
MaxHeadroom date : 29/06/2009 time : 22.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

I think I will start a new blog all about political frustration then

Ian - if red means less military influence in politics, no more coups, one man one vote, sound economic policy making, universal health care and no double standard in the judiciary - OK I guess then I am red.

If it means holding up 'I love Thaksin posters' at mass rallies or waiting anxiously for his boring phone-ins or forgetting his blood sucking clique of party-defecting career politicians (which are now also in the coalition) - then no - I guess I am orange.

So the question would be if red is already beyond that or not right? Wow I can already hear Px and ND screaming - yellow is so clever and so good and so much better than red...

Well, even if they are not yet a really cool movement - still better then right wing autocracy - right? No, jokes aside - they are the only ones confronting the military with their tanks and guns and the mafia leaders of the elite that is slowly shredding this country to pieces.

In conclusion, partially sympathizing with red - that's ok.

So why not yellow: Sondhi and ASTV and closed airports and 70:30?

No, but I would like to see a radical clean up in Thai politics happening just like many yellows do. I would like to see and end of political prostitution and party hopping, of corruption on Italian or Philippines scales. But did Abhisit or the coup bring any of that? Well I guess the answer to that is obvious - so they might be right about some basic reasons for their political frustration but don't have a vision how to deal with the problem and solve it without destroying the country's economy and social framework in the course.

So they too let it all out on substitute targets guilty and scapegoats alike but always in an 'I'll let you pay for anything wrong in the world fashion'.

You see the witch hunt is nothing but a distraction from the fact that the really sensitive issue are not being addressed at all.

Red or Yellow - it's all about sensationalizing the revelation of nothing all too important and naming no names. It's mostly a lot of noise about nothing - still every now and then a taboo is broken - such as naming him who we do not speak of elderly military.

It's the same as not talking about those who did allthe dirty work in Thaksin's war on drug.

Then again: take a look around - drug consumption in on an all time high.

One sided angst? Haha - no 360° angst because we are surrounded by a bunch of screwed up dudes thinking they got enlightened by their middle class education or their guru's seminar.

So politely speaking - if you have to deal with so much nonsense and prejudice everyday - frustration is the smallest problem.

We tried 'let them die stupid and forget them' and look where we are today. They turned violent and ask you 'are you frustrated'.

comment 179
Ian date : 28/06/2009 time : 22.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

ND, 177. Like you I was amazed at the way Krajog attacked, it was like being suddenly savaged by a friendly dog, I had to either respond or walk away, I chose to respond

But it does demonstrate one point, I think the polarisation in Thai politics is almost reaching a religious intensity, and this is very dangerous.
As you have perhaps realised by now I often support the red viewpoint simply to tease out and examine the logical errors in the yellow viewpoint.
Max and BR are too strongly pro red, this just leads to confrontation. I have always been a trouble shooter, paid to be the Devil's advocate and point out the unpleasant truths.
You seem to be the only yellow supporter in these blogs that is prepared to handle my comments and argue and debate them, would that there were more. Facts have to be debated with logic not emotion. Krajog in his latest comments to me clearly allowed emotion to dominate his thinking.
I find you an honourable opponent, a friend rather than an enemy, we can disagree strongly yet stay civilised and friends.
Max I have known in these blogs for many years, he helped me in my early novice years, in these blogs and as a newcomer to Thailand. He is as passionate about Thailand as you but walks a different route.
I have watched him over the years become increasingly frustrated and dissillusioned with what is happening in Thailand, it shows in his writings.
In the short time I have known you I detect the same sense of frustration, I even see it in people like Piset. I think it is this frustration that often leads you to attack each other, I see the same on BP with Thai patriots like Ink and Voice.
As has been said by many Farangs and Thais that know you people, it is time you got off your arses. You know what is wrong, you know what has to be done, so work together and start doing it.
As we say in the West, "Shut up or put up", Voice is I gather investigating the formation of a new political party.
It is clear that change is never going to come from the top, so it will have to come from the bottom, the people of Thailand are desperate for clean articulate and intelligent leadership, I have met many Thais on the Internet that fit this description, but they all feel too impotent and frustrated to try. This is the strength of the elite and will always be so until some few have the guts to challenge it.

comment 178
peacefulness date : 28/06/2009 time : 21.39
nationmultimedia.com

Ian--comment175, i quoted khun krajog's comment just for educational purpose, his blog and comment are very informative and knowledgeable for all the blogggers/posters to read, and i hv already recommended this to U and others to read for a couple of times. no body is parroting in this nation blog, we are all senior citizens, don't hv to.....

now i quote his blog for others to read and ur comment46/47 in response his comment41

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard/2009/06/18/entry-1

comment 177
notdisappointed date : 28/06/2009 time : 20.03

Ian, After jumping on P. there's no need to get on me though.
"You say Max is blinkered, so are you, so is Krajog and all his followers, you cannot understand how it is possible to hold two opposite opinions at the same time, this is your weakness.
try to understand this article I wrote last year"

I opened it and read it. OK?

But you know what, you've misread my intentions and my seriousness (or actually lack of). You've underestimated me, you who had once said I was subtle. I took it as a game and a challenge with this conceived attitude with maxwell, for one reason and one reason only. It all goes back to your posting that a dialougie between max would be overwhelming, in his favor.

I took that as a challenge and what I have done since then if you consider my see-saw approach with maxwell was see and test his breaking point.

I ws never rude, never attacking frontally, always giving helpful advice and insights in a light-hearted manner to help him overcome his seriousness and inflexibility. His frustration level just ent up but at least he didn't blow up in the manner that Krajog did. He did it in his own way. But you know what? Life is short. Shit happens. Sometimes people need to be needled to get them off of their high horse.

Oops shouldn't have given myself away, well maybe just to make things a little bit more fair, don't you think?

comment 176
notdisappointed date : 28/06/2009 time : 19.36

Ian I have to admit to you of my shock and dismay after I read K. Krajog's post to you on his blog and as re-posted below. Your retort although understandable and reasonable was just somewhat 'hot under the collar' and not like you.

In the past, I, as well as you, have found K. Krajog a font of information, reasonableness, and rationality. Reading his retort to you, the more I read, the more I was wondering - Whaaat? What is he doing? His post devolved into an unreasonable and un-necessary rant. The Mexican thing was just out there and had little or no comparative value to the Rohinyo. I ended up shaking my head in frustration that such a valuable mind such as his - just lost it in a the heat of emotion.

I think he may have taken your comments out of context and may have mistaken you as an ally; for the vehemence and condescension of maxwell.

comment 175
Ian date : 28/06/2009 time : 18.24
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Peacefulness, the point is why quote another blogger at all, have you no mind of your own to make your own comment. Act like a parrot and you get treated like a parrot.

comment 174
peacefulness date : 28/06/2009 time : 10.12

Ian c171-- i quoted khun krajog's comment at 22.43hrs, ur commment 46 on krajog's blog 0035hrs

how can i quote ur comment when there is none. do u hv eyes???????? do u see anything ???????........

absurd, absurd............

comment 173
peacefulness date : 28/06/2009 time : 09.52

Ian-- the people like u , maxheadroom, pomjuk, ginola, hermano, catch22,bkkray , al , outsider, aussie observer,xena, and all the alikes all standing behind the darkness not knowing what is right , what is wrong, the people like you all just bragging , bragging........ endlessly for years. damn it.........

comment 172
peacefulness date : 28/06/2009 time : 09.47

Ian-- at the end of the day U talked something like this for umteentimes for the past few yrs,

ur english is bad
u do not know how to debate
this is only a joke
this a subtle british humour
.......
.......

fxxk U ian.....

comment 171
Ian date : 28/06/2009 time : 01.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Well ND, Pissfulness has just made my point perfectly, the Abhasit brigade in these blogs with the exception of you are just unthinking parrots, he posts the entirety of Krajogs attack on me but not my reply.
It seems that Pissfulness cannot think he is a trained parrot.
Frankly I am getting bored with these blogs, apart from the stupid way they vanish into the back pages after a few days and admin seems unwilling to deal with my K-virus, everyone here is politically totally biased.
I just cannot accept this, Krajog has really got under my skin with his condescending comments but total lack of any real reply.
At least in my own forum they are intelligent people and see no problem with a person who can criticise both Thaksin and Abhasit. I mean just what is it with you guys, if I don't have an opinion that conforms to yours then I'n a moron? No wonder Thais don't understand the art of debate.
It's like you doing research into Max's past blogs, have you researched mine, you will find I have often changed my mind and my attitude, it is called flexibility, being able to adapt to new information.
Why do so many Thais insist on arguing and thinking like Dodos, and you know what happened to them?
You say Max is blinkered, so are you, so is Krajog and all his followers, you cannot understand how it is possible to hold two opposite opinions at the same time, this is your weakness.
try to understand this article I wrote last year
http://www.bangkokpost.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1175&hilit=+dual+positional+logic
some of the comments might be of interest also, not everyone understood.

comment 170
notdisappointed date : 27/06/2009 time : 23.12

Ian, my gripe with maxwell is his hypocritical attitude, besides his self-induced intellectually condescending attitude that is. For want of a better word; my ‘annoyance’ with maxwell began from his blog: “Red and yellow shirts have a common enemy, Posted by MaxHeadroom”. Although the title seemingly seeks to show a convergence of mutual interest and reason for mutual understanding; the author neglects to identify with, and ‘live up’ to his blog. He’s forgotten himself and has used in his words; “Polarization is a common strategy applied here to avoid a coalition of the willing”. This I found to be quite hypocritical. To be fair, I then did some research; but after reading through his blog history here on the Nation; all I can see was that his bloggings have increasingly become a case of strident vociferous cries of ‘wolf’. Good intent becoming unknowingly malcontent political frustrations and one-sided angst.

His dissatisfaction with the coup that deposed thaksin has made his intelligence hostage to his distaste. His call to arms of the ‘disaffected’ to overthrow a sitting government during the Songkran riots was transparently in support of thaksin’s return. His (still) unsupported and unsubstantiated accusations were shrill and dangerous. His one-sided vehemence and angst, has gone unchecked for too long now. His views are not balanced and there is a definite blind spot where thaksin and his nominees are concerned. He sees no wrong with regard to thaksin and his nominees. All because he is adamantly against change by coup.

I willingly admit that although I’d wanted the fall of thaksin; I saw no way for this to happen. And although a coup is not the proper way to effect change; it served my purposes. Would I have wanted it differently; yes. Finally, I will be the first to admit that maxwell is well read, intelligent, reasonable, and probably a nice guy. But his deep vehemence makes one want to gnash one’s teeth.

comment 169
peacefulness date : 27/06/2009 time : 22.43
nationmultimedia.com

flwg quoted from krajog"s blog "
Thai Politics: Backward or forward or standstill?"

Qte
comment 41
krajog date : 27/06/2009 time : 15.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/oldguard

Ian c33
(I recommend everyone who made comments in this blog should read)

Please excuse me for being late in reply to your questions. I did not come back to this blog for several days.

How much you know about thousands of Rohinya people coming to Thailand to work illegally in the South? You call some of them “boat people”. Have you done a study on the Rohinya migration to Thailand, or making your conclusion based on press reports or criticism of Thailand in The Economist or BBC website? Your comment on treatment of your “boat people” by the Thai government may contain a few truths, but not the whole truths. What you think of wrong doing by Abhisit about the denial of mistreatment of the your “boat people” and ducking the issue with regional agencies. Representatives of UNHCR have been in Thailand to check the news about the boat people. Thailand has played its role in humanitarian side of the Rohinya illegal migrants. You avoid looking at the issue on Thailand’s national security. No country can stay indifferent to illegal migration from other country. Look at the word’s richest country handling of Mexican border crossing. It’s a tiresome work. Look at a quote from Breitbart.com posted on Aug. 5.

“The five-meter (18-foot) tall fence has a mesh woven so tightly that feet and fingers cannot grab hold, but it still allows people to see through. Steel pylons are set close enough to stop a truck from bursting through, and two meters of reinforced concrete underground deters any tunneling.…
The US Department of Homeland Security is racing to meet a December 31 deadline to raise 670 miles of steel fences and vehicle barriers along the 3,200 kilometer (2,000 mile) long southern border. About half has been completed, including this six kilometer (four mile) segment at New Mexico's Santa Teresa Port of Entry.”

Do you think the US authority has no rights to take care of their border problems for its national security? And Thailand has no rights to take care of its national security?
The southern killings at Takbai in Narathivas and Kruesae mosque in Pattani were the works of Thaksin government when he was PM. The two cases had been handled by a court and its verdict has been announced. Why put the blame on this government?

You seem to hate PAD blindly. Legal actions have been taken by the police, a democratic government cannot take legal action against anyone in their hands. It’s the duties of law enforcement agencies, which include the police and Attorney General Office. The police has already taken interrogation action with the five leaders of PAD and others people involved, but not issued summons for those acting as commentators on the PAD protest stages. The foreign minister, Kasit Bhiromya has never been a PAD leader. He took PAD rally stages since 2005 as a guest speaker. He has never involved in organizing PAD rally anywhere. There is not a single PAD leader was and is a member of Abhisit Cabinet. You’re falsely informed all along and based your assumption about PAD on Thaksin propaganda machines abroad and here in Thailand. I think you should open your eyes to accept the truths about political development that already taken place after this coalition government took the government power.

Abhisit have done his part for national reconciliation to heal the divide by not retorting to abusive remarks by Thaksin’s slaves in the National Assembly. He did not use abusive language against those in the opposition. So far, nobody in the Pheu Thai party dares to accept the post of Opposition Leader in the Parliament. Why scare of the post? Until now there is no real party leader to act as real party leader as in other countries.

You should know well who is the REAL party leader of Pheu Thai. Abhisit has supported the set up of reconciliation committee by the parliament and the committee for scrutinizing the charter changes as demanded by Pheu Thai MPs with an aim to bring back Thaksin to political game with whitewashed image. Do you want Abhisit to kowtow Thaksin and his slaves for making Thailand united again?
Abhisit has done his best to help revive the downward trend of the Thai economy by directly paying cash to low-salaried people in both public and private sectors and elderly people who do not on government retirement pension. Do you really think the direct cash compensation to low-waged people would be all spent on beer and other useless items by their sons? Who can really prevent that from happening? You seem to look down on Thai people in general of their consciences!!!

If you use your wisdom as a learned man, you would find that you have posted a extremely unfair criticism on Abhisit. You are really blinded by hatred you have against Abhisit.!!!
Abhisit’s policy platform is to provide free education for 15 years of education of Thai children from the first grade of kindergarten to the M6 grade in secondary education. And he has done what he has promise. He said it will be quality education for all, not just plain education. Providing uniforms and text books for free to all students is the duty of the Commercial Organisation of the Guru Sabha (Teachers’ Council). Each school was assigned to distribute the free items to its student. The Education Ministry has also initiated the project to increase quality of teachers all over the country.

Your criticism of the government free education is extremely groundless and shows that you have no access to unbiased information.

You said, “He allows the country to look foolish with the Cambodian border dispute, internet censorship and increased use of LM laws”.

Thaksin had made Thailand look foolish, not Abhisit. It’s the legacy of Thaksin bad foreign policy for exchange of his commercial concessions in Cambodia and the rights to make exploration in Cambodia’s waters. Foreign minister Kasit Bhiromya has started to a process to disclaim the Cambodia’s World Heritage Site process already submitted to the World Heritage Committee of the UNESCO. Progress has been made and Thailand will submit an official protest against Cambodia tor its unilateral proposal for register Preah Vihear Tenple or “Kao Phra Viharn” as its territory at the next meeting of World Heritage Committee in Seville, Spain, early next week until Jun 30.

Foreigners who come to live here have some obligations to meet because the immigration says so. It’s the function of Immigration Police Command to see all foreigners adhere at all regulation governing the status and rights foreign residents on short- and long-term stays. Abhisit has nothing to do with the work of immigration officials. You again falsely accuse Khun Abhisit of things he is not involved. Your frustration with the protocol for short-term stay should not be made into venting on PM Abhisit. Why not arrange official marrying to a Thai girl and apply for your permanent residence. That will solve your immigrant status once and for all?

You said, “He has ducked the issue of the buses and the rice sales.”

Have you ever heard of the Cabinet resolved to send the bus leasing scheme to the NESDB for study and recommend the best solution in one month. Now the NESDB has asked for another month. On the rice sales, the Cabinet has frozen the scheme and will revoke the contracts signed and will assign the sales to Foreign Trade Dept for G-to-G sales, not the Warehouse Organisation any more.

Ian, be fair, be sensible, get out of hatred, don’t allow your red-shirts friends or biased journalist in your country to lead you by your nose.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unqte

comment 168
MaxHeadroom date : 27/06/2009 time : 21.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

ND is having COD - not a new thing on this blog

At least he read my blogs - or maybe the titles of them.
He even wines about the frequency of my posts - well if that isn't obsession - man I got a blog stalker that want to see a 'silver hammer'.

Ian I ask you - do really think it is reasonable to ask me to take care of every disturbed guy on the Internet - did I sign a contract as the Internet counselor?

I think, Ian, you are missing the point we don't have to agree with every extremist to find common ground. Also I wonder if you really believe that blog trolling deserves such high level of attention.

Maybe you have been in Thailand too long

- I mean if a hundred people have proven beyond any doubt that 1+1 is 2 and one comes in terrorizing the others stating that his opinion that 1+1 is 7 should - even though falsified and without any proof be taken as serious as the others and maybe treated as equal in quality because it avoids conflicts and seems more democratic where would any working society be today.

I am getting bored of these paid 'our government is great' weirdos on the Nation blog and I am sure that since they got introduced as counter propaganda measure it really has discouraged many good writers from showing up here anyway.

Did you know what Abhisist's budget for his special 'media war' was in just 2 quarters?

200,000,000 Baht

For that money you can hire plenty of blog trolls.

Do you know how many community radio stations got shut down?

Over 50.

No, Ian not everything is same, same.

If you fall for that the trick with the 'everything is relative and everything is all the same' has worked with you as it did with much of the Thai population.

comment 167
Ian date : 27/06/2009 time : 18.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I am becoming intellectually frustrated by the inability of the main protagonists in this debate to agree on anything. Each seems to be living in a different country and with a different recent history.
Cutting through all the rhetoric, from others as well, I would be tempted to say that Thaksin was not that bad, and Somak, Somchai and Abhasit are not that good.
Thaksin in one sense was moving the debate forward, since then it has stagnated.
Before Thaksin democracy was just a word, Thaksin by becoming what ND called a "democratic dictator" explored the limits of the concept of democracy. He pushed too far and by so doing establish one limiting boundary for democratic principles. Abhasit by the unorthodox (yet seemingly legal) way he became PM is exploring yet another boundary of democracy. Again he seems to be pushing it too far for many people.
Is this how democracy evolves, by pushing the concept in various direction in order to establish the limits of what democracy means.
Could it be possible to arrive at an amicable consensus of what democracy is before we start arguing as to whom is taking the correct path to democracy.

comment 166
notdisappointed date : 27/06/2009 time : 13.29

maxwell, 165, I like it better when you talk in generalities but you then had to jump on AV and disregard your hero thaksin. Fair is fair; lump them all in it together, which you never do.

“And C155: ND anyone who knows my blogs knows that you are talking complete nonsense when you say that 'maxwell's frustrations that only surfaced when AV came into power...' - blah blah ”

Maxwell. Like I’ve said, and I really hate to have to gainsay you, BUT, I’ve researched and reviewed your blogs. Your record say differently from your denial that “'maxwell's frustrations that only surfaced when AV came into power...'.

During the samak/somchai nominee government you made all of SEVEN (7) - (single digit), politics related blogs. What’s that, once every two months? All wimpy monologues that had no teeth and did nothing to show your neutrality, disgust for amateurish and inept dealings, and concern for the country.

1.Jan. 22 – “Recession in Progress”. Knowing at the top of the year that the so-called ‘Hamburger Crisis’ was imminent; you gave none of your famous recommendations to the then samak government on how to weather the storm.
2.Feb 08 – “Braveheart vs the peasants”. Knowing in your heart that the rice subsidies were a trough for the politicians to gorge on; you didn’t deign it worthy to elucidate the readers concerning this aspect of corruption by your expert economic guru mingkwan, who, by your silence in 2008, shows that you thought that mingkwan was, during the samak cooking show, doing all the right things.
3.Feb 08 – “Storm in a water glass”. thaksin, true to character, ‘stole’ the show and you blamed the coupmakers (first dig).
4.Mar 12 – “A Government of Mafioso”. So little strong words for the samak government for a such a strong statement that you adeptly turned towards the old elite (2nd dig).
5.Mar 18 – “Blood rubies”. Samak just carrying on the same old same old (3rd dig) with no denunciations forthcoming from you; and tellingly no mention of the blatant attempts to trash the constitution for ppp’s political masters; nor ineptitude and inattention to the economy. (see yours no.1 above.)
6.May 27 – “Fight Extremism”. Now you gotten fully on your hobbyhorse with a no-holds barred attack against all things thaksin.
7.Dec 31 – “2008 final words”. Sad commiserations of the ppp’s decline and advent of AV.

No mention whatsoever regarding: the wholesale transfers and demotions of bureaucrats and technocrats, police and military; the freebies populist handouts lollipops that were given to fight the upcoming recession; no mention of the forfeiting of Thai sovereignty over Phra Vihearn; samaks’s remarks regarding the Myanmar junta’s put down of monks and laymen; the drug problem; education; agricultural subsidies; health care; put down of peaceful protestors in front of parliament in October; and many many others. Your track record shows your inclinations more so than your blah, blahs.

But check out 2009. It’s just mid-June and you’ve been busy.

TWELVE (12) politics related blogs, an average of 2 a month, beginning no less with an attack on the AV machine on:

0.Dec 31 – “2008 final words”.
1.Jan 13 – “Bangkok elections”; followed in quick order by
2.Jan 14 – “Abhisit’s uncontrolled handouts”.

Com’on maxwell, stop with you blah, blah, blahs . . . anyone who goes over your blogs will see that your pent-up disgust and dislike for the coup and anything that is against thaksin has come to be a deluge of what was the term? Oh yeah, ‘political frustrations” and ‘one-sided angsts’.

Consider the above for while you wait for my statistics regarding the One Trillion Baht, borrowed during the thaksin regime.

Finally if you have a problem with “Zen Miracles” take it up with its author Brenda Shoshana; I just used it as a metaphor to help you get out of your funk.

Seeya. And watch out for that silver hammer.

comment 165
MaxHeadroom date : 27/06/2009 time : 12.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

Ian: in a country with suspended democracy where people get arrested for playing music at a pro-democracy rally it will be hard to talk open.

In an country where people forget all the people that disappeared over the decades and better not talk about such incidents to avoid any conflicts - joining an ever longer missing persons list - it will be hard for activist to reveal all of their sources.

In a country where civil servants refuse to do their jobs, military is out of control following only its own commands and police can't go about their duty unhindered and nobody follows the hierarchy, mandate and chain of command as defined by the law it will be hard to for a single person to ask for them doing their duty and doing their jobs.

In result, in a country with all of the above it is difficult for a single citizen or better it is almost impossible to to do all the work that a defunct executive and judiciary fail to do. It would be both - their mandate and their duty - to do protect the law and the constitution and the civil and human rights from violence and corruption and political oppression or dictatorship.

For what a single person can do, I am about at that point where I would say: please accept that there are limits to everyone's power and energy.

For example: what good would it have done to send a single person to investigate in North Korea and collect all the facts so that he can prove some 'crazy accusations'?

In this blog I asked our fellow bloggers over two years ago to come with me to the South to see things first hands. No one wanted to come. I asked my fellow citizens to come with me to see Ang Thong in 2006 during the terrible flooding - no one came. I asked my fellow industrials to go and actively protest against the 30% rule - no one wanted to come. I asked my fellow political friends and MPs to go and uncover evidence in illegal misappropriation of funds by state enterprises channeled to the military - no one would have gone so far as to even openly reply.

So, this is why ND et alias can do their cynical play knowing that they will never have to come up with substance - simply since no one cares anymore. Not to the level that anyone would get up and take great risks to really stand alone in the end with others pretending not to know you when you get into trouble.

It's that simple.

Anything the red shirts have put up as evidence is just theatrical play. Not even 5% of the tip of the iceberg. Why because even if they had all the proof - no political movement today in this country is really about exposing the truth. It's about gaining an advantage. Revealing just so much to create doubt, playing with words and trying to avoid the sensitive topics. The later for many reasons - simply since on a certain level of power everyone here is dirty and it might backfire.

This is why I said what I said about Abhisit - he is no different in this respect - maybe not as dirty as most of his MPs but he's in on the game.

comment 164
Ian date : 26/06/2009 time : 19.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Comment 162. "Of course you know it's confidential". This is the first meaningful remark that has been made for a while in this blog.
In the political structure of Thailand there is much that is hidden, inevitable when corruption is rife. But in addition there is equally much that cannot be spoken, there are non political forces which have their own agenda yet have political influence.
So with a combination of secrecy and censorship, the political opponents in this blog eventually and seemingly inevitably descend to name calling and personal attacks.
I suspect that much of the cause of these personal attacks is from the sheer frustration of not being able to write in the clear, all has to be innuendo and hints.
I think certain Thai laws are the biggest impediment to true democracy, indeed their very existence is undemocratic.

comment 163
notdisappointed date : 26/06/2009 time : 13.35

But hey; "find more truth in a grain of sand than around here." That was the final line of your blog maxwell. I really wasn't off-topic at all was I?

I wrote about your similarities to Blake in my c145; then expanded upon it as a personal service to you in my c.151 I was not trying to be existentialist at all; just my personal concern for your angst and political frustrations post AV government. The degree and vehemence has been much ratcheted up due to your personal disgust and distaste and disgust with the coup that deposed a democratically elected democratic dictator who had no use for 'checks and balances' and parliament. But samak/somchai were elected under your maligned junta constitution and AV was voted in under the same constitutional framework.

FYI, it's called parliamentary democracy where MPs, elected by the people into parliament; vote for one of their members in parliament as PM. There is no rule or condition in the constitution that forces MPs to vote for a member of the party with the largest number of MPs. And in the event, pt, the largest party had no viable candidate to propose, they thereby offered a candidate from a party smaller than the Democrats, as their nominee. The nominee was unacceptable to the majority of the MPs therefore they chose AV. Weren't you around when all of this happened? It's simple Parliament 101.

comment 162
notdisappointed date : 26/06/2009 time : 13.17

maxwell. "alleged trillion Baht rumor" I'm working on it. But was giving you advice while passing the time getting the info.

Of course you know it's confidential as is the information and details you frequently remark on and cite but haven't yet shown.
You show me yours and I'll show you mine?

I'm just a bit offended that a topic so personal and well-intentioned, as a silver hammer falling on your head, is so off-topic! You're not a good listener are you; preferring to be a lecturer.

comment 161
peacefulness date : 26/06/2009 time : 11.47
nationmultimedia.com

maxhead "no"room--- comment 157 tttly bullshitting............ as ususal

comment 160
happyjack date : 26/06/2009 time : 11.28

Bang Bang Maxwells Silver Hammer came down upon his Head,Espresso economists,are normally poor.Whys That.Theoretical Crap,and never run a Company is my experience of them.Bullshit Baffles Brains.

comment 159
MaxHeadroom date : 26/06/2009 time : 10.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

And C155: ND anyone who knows my blogs knows that you are talking complete nonsense when you say that 'maxwell's frustrations that only surfaced when AV came into power...' - blah blah

OK ND - in order to get a cultivated level of debate going again in the future I will make some blogs where off-topic like yours in this blog will simply be deleted as will be flooding.

Why don't we talk about your losing face over your alleged trillion Baht rumor which you can't substantiate at all?

Why don't we talk about all the nonsense political blog trolls get paid for in their media campaigns?

Why don't we talk about ill guided disturbed fanatics like you and the danger of religious cults in Thailand?

Why don't we talk about details of illegal party funding by the Democrat party and their funding of the PAD? Krajog would like to see something like that - right?

comment 158
MaxHeadroom date : 26/06/2009 time : 10.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

Btw. the title 'Zen Miracles' in itself is an oxymoron. Anyone knowledgeable in Zen Buddhism would probably shiver at a misappropriation like that.

comment 157
MaxHeadroom date : 26/06/2009 time : 10.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C151 is a good piece of evidence for what I have said all along: there is a cultist undercurrent - religious fanatics with a strong level of indoctrination. Be it the Santi Asoke or similar cults or splinter groups of the later - the PAD and the yellows are basically representing a very worrisome trend in our society.

These people have compensated their political and social frustration by following a kind of 'ultimate enlightenment and path to superiority' teaching'. In the course of this indoctrination they have become 'robotic', eccentric and at times extremist and intolerant and violent in pursuing their ultimate goal of a 'harmonic society' according to their gurus teachings.

Very, very worrisome.

comment 156
expresso date : 26/06/2009 time : 02.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Oh, this blog is about economics.

As monotheistic religion concerns more about personal stuff, so should economics if you want to capitalize on it on your own benefits, or talk and analyze it after the data. The real world ain't like the spiritual world that all are equal.

People who often fail in investing are those who analyze too much and wait for the numbers to come out before they make a move!...A lot of thinking here if you dig what I said.

I don't think people understand what I said above. But it's expected.

People who know economics are those who BULLSHIT about the relationship between means and ends after they are GIVEN!....Even then when they are given, there are a lot of bulls whilst each claims as truth!

comment 155
notdisappointed date : 25/06/2009 time : 17.43

Ian, as usual a great suggestion; if I had wanted to debate. However, since the beginning of my entry into these blogs and having reviewed maxwell's blogs going back over a year; I was concerned for maxwell's frustrations that only surfaced when AV came into power.

His political frustrations never arose at all during the one year of political endeavors of he samak/somchai governments to trash and/or revise/amend the existing constitution instead of focusing on the economy. And now AV has to clean up and re-energize it; a thankless job.

Well anyways back to maxwell; it then seemed to me that his venting may have been building up during that period and only was given focus recently. I good naturedly wished him to reflect and soften his seemingly intense frustrations and look at the good points.

The reason I call him maxwell is to refer him to the Beatles' "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" written by
Paul Mccartney. In this song Paul tries to let people know that 'shit' happens. And to let it flow or else the hammer will come down on your head. It's OK to be concerned but not to let it be an overriding factor; because shit does happen. And no matter how much we rant and vent we can't change it.

Thus his one-sided angst.

However I will take up your suggestion if my two friends also agree.

comment 154
notdisappointed date : 25/06/2009 time : 17.29

br, I wasn't sure if I could make any suggestions to you personally as you might taKE OFFENCE.

However if you like, I can cater some remarks as I have in a similiar line specifically for you if you like. But of course you have to listen with an open mind, na.

comment 153
Ian date : 25/06/2009 time : 17.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

As usual this blog, like all others, has ended up with people commenting about each other rather than the original topic

At least Peacefulness limits himself to a few comments not the hundreds that the K-virus likes.

I have a suggestion to test the integrity of the main contestants in this blog. Let Max and BR list the good things that Abhasit has done, let ND and his supporters list the bad things he has done.
This incidentally is a good debating preparation technique, listing the other side's potential arguments.

comment 152
BangkokRay date : 25/06/2009 time : 16.51

nd, 150,
That sure explains a lot to me.

comment 151
notdisappointed date : 25/06/2009 time : 15.57

maxwell continuing on my c145 and the theme of your political frustrations and one-sided angst; I know that you have overlooked my many postings on your blogs that with good intent through metaphors and allegories to help you down from you fortress of solitude where you so deeply delve into a grain of sand to seek the meaning of truth.

In her book “Zen Miracles”, Brenda Shoshana defines the “shadow” as being the unacceptable aspects of ourselves that we dump into our unconscious minds. As we avoid looking at that hidden stuff, it festers. Meanwhile we project it into other people.

We all tend to project onto other people the unattractive aspects of ourselves that we refuse to acknowledge. Hence in each retort and response you make to those who disagree with you, maxwell, your vision is clouded by the disowned material tat is floating around your unconscious mind.

The antidote to this problem says Shoshana, is to “eat your shadow” – haul it up out of the pit and develop a conscious connection with it. Doing so not only prevents our unacknowledged darkness from haunting our thoughts; it’s also liberating. You’ll have an enhanced ability to get access to the liabilities and powers that are buried beneath the surface of your awareness. As a result, your ability to see the objective truth about the world around you should grow dramatically.

Thus you’ll be rewarded by leaving your comfort zone (your fortress of solitude) and heading towards the frontier – but only if you’re fully armed with the crafty discernment and a realistic (not cynical) understanding of how the world really works without having to strain your eyes looking for it in a grain of sand. Look within yourself.

And it’ll open you up to the real beauty in the world beyond the cynicism.

comment 150
notdisappointed date : 25/06/2009 time : 15.34

Boston is a fabulous place; I attended to university there.

New England irself is very pastoral, civilized, and peaceful.

comment 149
BangkokRay date : 25/06/2009 time : 13.07

Alien,
Now I know the real reason you don't want to work in Bahston.

comment 148
Alien date : 25/06/2009 time : 11.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

C's 143 & 144 - Hate to break it to you but it's grammAr. That will be $4.99. Please print this and bring it to the check-out counter.

PS - In case the English spell it ending with er, please note that the English have lost their way and mispell alot of words now. I have decided to open up a new foundation called "Send Spelling Books to England." P. O. Box 1040 Boston, Ma. 02110 Please give until it hurts.

comment 147
MaxHeadroom date : 24/06/2009 time : 22.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C145: Talking to brainwashed people that answer every question with 'it's all Thaksin's fault' and 'but Thaksin did ...' can be frustrating.

Still, that can't stop me from moving forward to make this world a greener and cleaner place.

Beauty - my little philosophical friend - is in the eye of the beholder.

comment 146
MaxHeadroom date : 24/06/2009 time : 22.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

Px: careful you don't want to expose your true intentions as SPAMMER with BAD GRAMMAR

What is it that turned your mind into a doughnut? I mean every thought will loop back to Thaksin.

Lastly, please stop to use the word 'plutocratic' - come up with some new vocabulary

comment 145
notdisappointed date : 24/06/2009 time : 22.00

maxwell’s final sentence on this blog reminds me of “Auguries of Innocence”, a poem by William Blake. It’s something that maxwell should take to heart to find some deeper inner peace and satisfaction instead of being so politically frustrated. As in the words of K.Krajog on his blog; “Some people like Max have a lot of political frustration. By releasing his frustration in this blog, it helps Max to calm down one way of another.”

First the poem:

“To see a world in a grain of sand.
And heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.”

It’s a hope for you, maxwell, to be able to catch glimpses of the beauty that has been hidden from you.

comment 144
peacefulness date : 24/06/2009 time : 21.03
nationmultimedia.com

c143---who cares about "Spelling and grammer" hahahahaha....... spelling and GRAMMER, spelling and GRAMMER, spelling and GRAMMER.

what a mentally retarded, miserable imbecile!!!!!!!!!

comment 143
BangkokRay date : 24/06/2009 time : 19.29

#142,
Yep, and maybe you will win the 2009 North Korean "Spelling and grammer" award.

comment 142
peacefulness date : 24/06/2009 time : 18.29
nationmultimedia.com

comment98/141----just fyi, there will be "a dog show" at muangthong thani hall3/4 from 25/28jun09. may be U will get the top prize of being a faithful "running dog" to the square face's plutocratic regime or disqualified for ur total ignorance, stupidity, notknowings, or status qua of being a useless zilch. goodluck comment98/141. hahahahahaha..........

comment 141
BangkokRay date : 23/06/2009 time : 23.16

Ian, 136, Max 139,
You provide facts, the jokers have no answers, so they change the subject. When will WE get it through our minds that Thaksin did it then and he's doing it now. It takes any blame away from their heros. It's time for our group to pack up and leave because they are in office now. Note I didn't say in control.
Believe there is a saying; "If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, then baffle them with Bullshit".

comment 140
Alien date : 23/06/2009 time : 23.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Hello Ian - (C 136). I think it may be because Thai politics has quieted down a little from when the Red and Yellow shirts were rampaging through the streets. Sure, there are alot of things still happening, important things, but they don't seem quite as urgent as they did before. Maybe it has to do with our comments before about the present government really not doing anything. I do see interesting stories about people worrying that the government doesn't want the falang to put up the money for the house to go in the wife's name, foreigners can't farm, etc. but they don't seem to concern people on this blog too much. I also think that blogs, by their nature, have a tendency to wander, some more than others. I attribute this to one subject reminding people of something else. While we may not see any connection, apparently others do. You prabably can't tell by some of my answers, as I tend to wander off too, but sometimes I do get frustrated when the blogs go off into left field. But I guess my attitude is "Ah, what are you going to do." It's like trying to herd cats.

comment 139
MaxHeadroom date : 23/06/2009 time : 22.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C136: Sure they like to do this because it gives them a high degree of freedom o do anything they want, which in turns gives the military plenty of alibi excuses to intervene in politics.

Well, this was supposed to be a discussion about the economy...

At this stage it's like in a horror movie - there is great danger yet everybody jokes and laughs in an almost surreal way. No sure - I like satire - but Beavis and Butthead wasn't meant to be a role model for anyone in the first place

comment 138
happyjack date : 23/06/2009 time : 20.52

Very clear things Jellyfish,no discernable backbone,so its not so far away from Politicians.We cant do anything anyway,thats why blogs eventually turn to Humour.Look who gets the hits.

comment 137
noonin date : 23/06/2009 time : 18.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Max 125
Pleased to hear that.
Sorry for my assumption.

comment 136
Ian date : 23/06/2009 time : 16.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

At one time it was possible to have a sensible discussion. Now people would rather talk about jellyfish, the implication is clear, Thai politics is judged by most people as no longer worth discussing.
Politicians love and encourage this state of mind, nothing is worse for a politician than an attentive, informed and critical electorate.

comment 135
GGrass date : 23/06/2009 time : 13.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

HJ :

comment 134
happyjack date : 23/06/2009 time : 13.40

Well,as i was saying, this Kind Lady put the Flowerpot in the Pothole,but now she has put up a sign.Beware Flowerpot Ahead.

comment 133
GGrass date : 23/06/2009 time : 12.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

Dunno about 'box' jellyfish, but I know skimpy jellyfish... they're all over Pattaya beach... you can find them wrapped around metal poles...

comment 132
Alien date : 23/06/2009 time : 12.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

C 128. That would be "Box jellyfish". I saw a program where they say these are very poisonous and the poison is fast acting. They were talking about them at the beaches of Austrialia. I think I may have heard of them being in the water at Thailand's beaches. Does anyone know anything about this?

comment 131
GGrass date : 23/06/2009 time : 10.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

BR : I don't have a laptop... I'd like to have one, but I don't have the money... which reminds me to write another blog... what I want for christmas...

comment 130
BangkokRay date : 23/06/2009 time : 11.27

GG,
My guess is that you are carrying your laptop in your car when you hit the potholes at 60 km. You seem destined to trash all your electronic equipment with your pothole fettish.
I don't have any spare laptops to give you either.

comment 129
GGrass date : 23/06/2009 time : 10.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

???

Did you see that?

My comment was timed at 10.27, but the previous comment by BR was timed at 11.07...

??

comment 128
GGrass date : 23/06/2009 time : 10.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

But some jellyfish sting really hurts... some can even kill a person. ^_^

comment 127
BangkokRay date : 23/06/2009 time : 11.07

But Max, if it is repeated enough times, it will become a fact.

comment 126
MaxHeadroom date : 23/06/2009 time : 09.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C116 / C124: Ian, what you see here is an attempt by a few people to not let the debate become scientific or factual. This is being done by straying off topic and by trying to set economic data equal to an opinion. So whilst it is possible to construct economic data (which has to be proven first if one claims that - something ND et alias have failed to do) and no economic data set is really complete (thus the word statistic which is an approximation of the true value by mathematical analysis and as such not a priori unscientific) that doesn't imply that all data is false or any opinion is equally based on the best data available and build on a sound process of reasoning.

You could argue that the quality of opinions covers really a wide spectrum here

so I'll leave it to something of a human equivalent of a bio-statistical sub-processor to judge who is bullshitting who here with the old 'how-to-destroy-a--debate-without-real-proof' tactic: common sense.

Does 'Thaksin is responsible for everything even if it happened after the junta took over' make any sense to you? 2006 was a long time ago - still people claim that the blame game is justifiable. Wouldn't it be more likely to assume that what we see in economics is just that what we see in every other third world banana republic: mismanagement and widespread corruption wherever a military dictatorship tries to play with the economy?

Anyway, the tactics are always the same - they sound like 'my friend who is really that super mega important guy and a real insider has secretly told me that Thaksin ... blah blah blah You ask for proof or something to cement this lose rhetoric and get - nothing but of topic spam.

Ian, this tactic is called 'inducing doubt' and it was successfully used by the Bush adminstration to get people to support the invasion of Iraq - remember that weapons of mass destruction and Al Qaeda link? What about global warming? Same thing - with this strategy ratification of the Kyoto Protocol had been successfully prevented by the U.S. oil lobby for over a decade.

Anyway my argument was that whatever doctoring of BoT statistics: it is likely to be the same or higher for the years after the coup than during the Thaksin administration so we can take is as a constant if you like. But there is no way in the comparison of economic growth and external debt and loan figures to support any wild claims such as presented by ND then. That's pretty much fact not opinion. Also I have good insight into many of these figures from my work in the industry.

Bottom line: the current level of discussion in our society is being torn too an all time low by allowing any lunatic to come up with nonsense and have this nonsense - no matter what basis or quality of information present it as opinion of equal quality. No matter the claims, no matter the bullshit level. Since many people do not understand how anything works in this world you will always find enough people to support your opinion - especially if you combine your opinion on one thing with their antipathy to or frustration about another thing.

This is how this works. Just what we have to understand as a society is how far can we let this go uncontrolled? I mean we already have a lot of skeletons in the closet here in our country. So would it be an intelligent thing to let the bad people go further just to show that we are tolerant? Tolerant enough to tolerate any injustice? Tolerant enough - or just weak and lazy and spineless like a jellyfish?

Can it be that we would be so tolerant to nonsense, violence and dictatorship taking over all spheres of life and that one day we would be waking up just like the people - the millions of Germans - that silently walked to the marching songs of the Nazis?

To me that 'Thaksin is responsible for everything' is starting to feel like the German 'Dolchstoss Legende' - the backstabbing legend the Nazis used after Germany had lost WWI. It's the same thing: it's all a fake-over but it works with silly people.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is not a random afterthought.

comment 125
MaxHeadroom date : 23/06/2009 time : 09.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C113: My children don't go to a catholic school.

comment 124
iceberg date : 23/06/2009 time : 02.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ranchhand

I have to say that the debate is very interesting and very educational.

Frankly, I could not make up my mind as to who is right. All reasons are making sense to me.

Not trying to be a comedian but to me that is how I feel.

comment 123
expresso date : 22/06/2009 time : 23.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

BangkokRay,

I don’t hide. If I post in here everyday, I won’t have time to drink my kool-aid with my pals and the lively ones. I don’t have pension...not yet. In fact, I need to solicit business for some of my friends whose businesses I have stakes in. It’s part of making a living and helping friends. Dig?

Notdisapointed seems to have given you too much credit for saying my posts have given you room to advance your snide. Heck, I don’t see it. Do you? The only intellectual comment that you have made is you have freedom of speech. Is that intellectual? I utilized mine also, don’t you think, BangkokRay?

It’s obvious to me that you think Thailand has no capable man other than Thaksin. You think your opinion is the gospel. You think you know it best, you can decipher and gauge the people best because in your mind Thailand is a third world country. Days in and days out, you demean Khun Aphisit. Why?

I got pissed the most is when you said, “Thaksin was far from a saint, but HIS ADMINISTRATION gave this country much more hope…”

What administration? HE WAS THE ADMINISTRATION!

It’s not that he had a government of all the talents, but that he had all the talents to be the government. And then the country!

And you mothers keep talking democracy with no end. Or is it only when such term fit you best? To me, you show your superiority complex and want to promote your country, whatever that is, to be the beacon for all lands, including the land that you have come to exploit the low standard of living and the freedom that has given to you. Yes, freedom is what I said!

comment 122
expresso date : 22/06/2009 time : 22.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

To carry on further in noonin’s c73, I would like to say:

China is a closed society with an open mind. India is an open society with a closed mind. Britain is a closed society with an open MOUTH – Ian attested to this in his c68 when uncalled for!

comment 121
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 22.56

Geez, you're not biased are you?

comment 120
Alien date : 22/06/2009 time : 22.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

ND - If you're going to say good things about the Yankees, I don't see how we can be friends.

comment 119
notdisappointed date : 22/06/2009 time : 21.20

br the only one who's getting pissed off is you, not me, since I've given up on trying to talk sense with you as you continually try to read it as something BAD; so I will no longer pay any attention and make my on way on these blogs.

Enjoy yourself as you see fit.

comment 118
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 21.05

Ian,
And.........I chose to be a Financial Analyst. We haven't had much chance to discuss that here.

PS, Since my science background is limited to the requires courses atuniversity, I will not even attempt to engage you in a science debate.

PS: Thaksin is likely responsible for any scientific phenonenon that happen in Thailand.

comment 117
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 20.57

ndIt's absolutely amazing that you can read that exchange and then comment that I'm contrary. Some folks here post under the influence and lose any sense or rationality. You have people here sitting on two sides of a fence that express what their side believes and the other theirs. When one side doesn't like the response, some choose to use personal attacks(you know all about that). You continue to give me guidance about how to "get along" on this site, yet you enjoy trashing anybody that isn't in lockstep with you. You aren't alone. My tollerance level may be lower than some, but that is my problem.
Your concept of truth is what you believe, nothing more. If there were to come a point where I felt is was alone in my beliefs, I may exit this site, but in the meantime, I will continue to post here whether it pisses you off or not.

comment 116
Ian date : 22/06/2009 time : 20.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I am not a statitician so I am always amazed that people can look at published figures (presumably) and come up with radically different results.
Some will say the economy is getting better, others will say it is getting worse.

Now in this blog we have Max, BR and ND all fighting over whether or not Thaksin got Thailand into debt. I would have thought that simply examining the books would give a straightforward answer, but instead they just snarl at each other.
It seems that economics are like politics, the facts are very flexible and can be bent in any number of ways.
My intellect is not up to this, that why I chose science as a career, a much easier subject.

comment 115
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 20.38

Max,
What an outrage. You send you kids to a school that teaches morals, love and fair treatment for all. It teaches self respect and a love for mankind. Perhaps you should home school them and teach them that in Thailand, if you have it, keep it and screw those that don't.
My hat is off to you.

comment 114
notdisappointed date : 22/06/2009 time : 20.15

br, all's I meant was that you like to be contrary with people. Exp was a good example on this blog. I have no reason to defend him just wish for some less, as Ian says, bickering.

You are really thin-skinned aren't you. You look for the wose in people. But look within yourself likewise. Be cool and do as NN advises.

It'll really be good for you and we can all have good concourse.

Or will you misunderstand again.

finally read 55, not scan him. You will find some deviousness there.

comment 113
noonin date : 22/06/2009 time : 18.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Comment 112
Is that why you send your children to a Roman Catholic School?

comment 112
MaxHeadroom date : 22/06/2009 time : 18.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C96: as can be seen from the BoT link I have posted below: external debt was declining under Thaksin's regime while loans went down too. This trend has since reversed starting in 2006 - any more questions? So even if he did refinance he did so under a growing economic environment which thanks to coup, military and political instability, record fuel prices last year and global economic crisis is a thing of the past now.

The trillion Baht is a thing you have still to prove ND - so come up with that official statistic please.

C97: I don't micro manage before getting an overview of the entire situation and prefer my great grandmother's words of wisdom who said once don't take too much confidence in proverbs or peasant's rules.

C99: Well said, that's the problem I have been talking all the way long - people sound like broken records - anytime you discuss a problem it will sound 'but it's all Thaksin's fault'. That's worse than the Jehovah witness.

C100: Whatta mark ND? The spammometer is at 1000%

C107: for the ruling elite that's exactly what most underprivileged are - nobody. So where's that humility. It's nice to have Buddhist principles surface in Krajog's blog, still it's yet another thing what he tries to communicate with that. Anyway why do I get this feeling that talking about Buddhism for some people always comes with an aftertaste of having swallowed total enlightenment by the gallons. Humility? OK, stop self overestimation first and we get the right way.

Cogito ergo sum.

Or some Dhammic words: something isn't true just because people repeat it often.

comment 111
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 17.56

Ian,
GG is entertained, so how can I be bored. All I did was expand on nd's profile when he was trying to bully a fellow Thai. His concept of truth is to muzzle me completely in hopes that I go away. Well, my elder friend, I'm here to stay and won't be muzzled until the Grand Master comes for me. He's upset with my response to Expresso a few days ago. He's also upset that some of his heroes may go the way of TRT this week. Then you have yesterday's election results. He might have also had a bad round of golf(maybe I should offer him a few lessons). Make sense now?

comment 110
GGrass date : 22/06/2009 time : 16.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

Bored? Who's bored?

I'm entertained!

comment 109
Ian date : 22/06/2009 time : 16.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

BR and ND, it is clear that you two will never agree so why do you both keep up this endless bickering? You spend more time tackling each other than you do tackling the topic

I think you're both bored

comment 108
notdisappointed date : 22/06/2009 time : 15.34

tx nn, I'll try to keep that in mind. And empty it of all negative thoughts.

comment 107
noonin date : 22/06/2009 time : 14.30
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

From one of Krajog's excellent blogs.

Humility does not mean acting so lowly all the time. The sense of humility principally based on non-self or egoless concept of life. It is the first step on the path to enlightenment. When any one attains the state of non-self in his mind, he will be conscious of himself as nobody or just a human being who can die at any time. A humble person has a sense of open-mindedness and not sensitive to criticism because his humility will accept criticism as thing worthy of thought. Once a man is humble, criticism will do no harm to his mind because he is selfless and non-egoistic. Who can harm anyone’s feeling who thinks of himself as a nobody?

comment 106
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 15.18

br's posts=attacks

nd's posts=intellectual conversation

I understand now.

comment 105
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 15.10

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has received 4.06 out of 10 in a university survey of people's satisfaction with the goverment's performance during its first six months in office.

This poll was taken in Bangkok-40.6%
Thaksin's cronies got nearly 70% yesterday.

comment 104
notdisappointed date : 22/06/2009 time : 14.56

br back to your old ways of indiscriminate attacks against any and all. That didn't last long did it?

Is it just a joke or underlying character?

Is it just a need to consistently and continually attack anybode who disagrees with your version of truth?

You don't get something and in your defensive mode you attack. But don't forget when I was out playing golf you attack me and say I was licking my wounds.on yoon's blog and seel allies to attack me because we're under a truce which you try in every ways and means and manner to get out of.

You are a strange one.

Similiar to Ian's Kant in your consistent focus to attack others.

comment 103
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 14.49

noonan, 102,

Agreed.

comment 102
noonin date : 22/06/2009 time : 13.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

you can spend your time more creatively and will find more truth in a grain of sand than around here

comment 101
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 14.22

And your less than intelligent friend gave you the dubious distinction of being #100.

comment 100
notdisappointed date : 22/06/2009 time : 14.12

br if you think what you posted is considered to be intellectual; then I will not disagree with you; since we're still under truce.

maxwell, aren't you happy? You've been able to reach the exalted 100 comments mark!!!

comment 99
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 13.35

Let’s get back to the intellectual topic put forth by maxwell shall we, and avoid the unsavory insults.

It's all Thaksin's fault !!!
It's all Thaksin's fault !!!
It's all Thaksin's fault !!!

nd, Now that's what you mean when you refer to intellectual talk, isn't it?

comment 98
happyjack date : 22/06/2009 time : 13.33

C94 made some interesting points In reference to Zoo Audio Systems .

comment 97
notdisappointed date : 22/06/2009 time : 13.09

maxwell c 95,

Studies have shown that when most people take a shower, they lather the upper parts of their bodies first and make their way down. I recommend you take the opposite approach maxwell. In fact I think a similar strategy would be wise in just about everything you do. Start at the bottom and work your way up. Establish yourself at the ground level and then take care of the higher stuff.

Let me give you a saying of a wise man, now that some here have been discussing baseball. I think that our baseball fans can admit that one of the most successful managers of in baseball history was Casey Stengel. His New York Yankees won the world championship seven times. Before the 1953 season, when the Yankees had already won four consecutive world series, he said: “If we’re going to win the pennant, we’ve got to start thinking that we’re not as smart as we think we are.”

maxwell, this a good analogy fitting for you; as savvy and crafty as you are, you’ll have to be even more so to pull off the credibility that’s almost within your grasp.

comment 96
notdisappointed date : 22/06/2009 time : 12.36

Let’s get back to the intellectual topic put forth by maxwell shall we, and avoid the unsavory insults. Wit and spoofs are OK, but nasty attacks and language should be frowned upon shouldn’t they?

Exp. I understand your reasoning for your strong words against br, however it just gives him further fuel for his wit and one-sided interludes.

br, I know you’re having fun, but can you lay off a bit so that we can have some semblance of reasoned and rational discourse? Can you guys call a truce; it’s really quite easy isn’t it br?

- maxwell: “even if refinancing occurred it is nothing out of the ordinary as long as total debt is declining and installment can be paid back under a growing economic regime.”

But total debt is not declining. And we are not “under a growing economic regime”. Do you seriously think that a TRILLION Baht can be repaid over 2 -3 years, under these conditions? The over One Trillion Baht in debt, even-though accumulated over time remains on the books. It is a debt that has, in its quantum, become a burden to the government’s ability to ‘finance’ a recovery through normal means. The amount of principle and interest payments, this ‘debt carry’, is proportionately higher and is the largest expense in the government’s budget - due to the debt put on the ‘books’ by thaksin’s government, ‘over time’.

pj, If the parliament is filled with prostitutes then it also includes thaksin’s paid whores to wouldn’t it? Are his whores of better quality then those of other prostitutes in parliament? Why do we need to change from one set of prostitutes to another set of whores. What we need is a change in the whole political system. Not a change in the ‘hole’ system.

comment 95
MaxHeadroom date : 22/06/2009 time : 12.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

Well, there has been a wild variety of topics surfacing here ranging from Prince Harry, over 2 cans of Bud to Neanderthals.
The last one is a really good mirror image of our political culture here in our country at the moment. What makes this all so interesting is that lots of crazy people are around to roam freely and many of them such as Px or ND or wch have their coming out in alter ego here where supposedly to be crazy is the norm.

Imagine these people in suits and neckties (like those in parliament) or military uniforms or yellow or red shirts and you know exactly what is going on. While in those different clothes they might be keeping back with their opinions as twisted as they might be and hide their true self behind a lot of official Thai culture, political correctness and Pi-Nong system. Maybe at a beer or in closed circles they might have a coming out.

But what's really scary is that craziness comes in large numbers and is being made 'publicly acceptable' ever more often. So the days when they social restrictions are lifted by anarchy, poverty or violent uprising you will see a lot of this pressure exploding because we as a society didn't find a way to slowly let off steam by confronting and discussing in the first place. I wonder if Px does that here on the blog as seen by his Neanderthal post.

I think we have had our fair share of the later in the last 4 years - right?

comment 94
peacefulness date : 22/06/2009 time : 10.54
nationmultimedia.com

comment53/54-- troglodyte talked to neanderthal more than 24.000yrs ago

troglodyte ugh
neanderthal ah
tro...ah
nea...ugh
tro... ughah
nea...ahugh
tro...ughughughugh.......
nea...ahahahahaha.......
tro......................
nea....................
tro....................
nea..................

troglodyte yeah yeah yeah yeay...........
neanderthal yesyesyesyesyesyes...........

hahahahahahahahah......... good day troglodyte(caveman) and neanderthal.........

pics, troglodyte(caveman)

comment 93
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 10.16

Alien,
Perhaps in the "afterlife".

comment 92
Alien date : 22/06/2009 time : 10.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Bangkok Ray....I am trying my hardest to bring you into the 21st Century. You need to become a member of "Red Sox Nation". I am only trying to help!

comment 91
BangkokRay date : 22/06/2009 time : 08.24

Alien, #90,
Thanks ever so much for the update. You ruined my day before it really got started.

comment 90
Alien date : 22/06/2009 time : 07.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

BREAKING NEWS - Make it 4.0 Ray. The Red Sox defeated the Atlanta Braves 6-5 today with a bottom of the ninth homerun and the Yankees lost to the Florida Marlins, also 6- 5.

comment 89
Alien date : 22/06/2009 time : 07.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Hello Ray,

I have had Chang Beer when in Thailand in the past. I didn't think it was that bad. Usually I drink Heinekin although I am not a great fan of that beer. I cannot find Coors in Thailand. Someone once told me to go to a store in Thailand and they had American beer. I saw 2 cans of Budweiser sitting on the shelf. What good are 2 cans of Bud? The price was shocking. It reinforces my belief that the U. S. government lests all types of Thai goods into the U. S. with hardly any duties and the Thai government really socks it to the the U. S. in return. This is especially evident when you look a the price differential between Bud or Miller vs. Heinekin. I'm sure this uneven treatment is repeated all over the world. THAT reinforces my theory that the U. S. government is one of the stupidest governments in the world.

comment 88
happyjack date : 22/06/2009 time : 06.30

Yo Ray,sure they spell real good,unlike the Old Man.They got a Big Basket of Fancy Words,and Fancy Ideas.Shame they ain't got a Big Basket of Cash like the one who cant spell.Sure feels good spending there inheritance.Tho one we never had, remember.Mom will save their Face when i Croak.

comment 87
BangkokRay date : 21/06/2009 time : 23.39

Alien, Seems to me it's 3.0. The bad news is, you still only have 30 baht in the fund. Looks like Chang may be on the table unless they do as I suspect they will(OK, hope they will).
PS, Expresso is in hiding.

comment 86
Alien date : 21/06/2009 time : 23.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Sorry, # = 3

comment 85
Alien date : 21/06/2009 time : 23.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Expresso, you have to give an allowance for Bangkok Ray. He's a N. Y. Yankee fan. (# games up now BR!)

comment 84
Ian date : 21/06/2009 time : 23.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Hj, just ignore him, he like to think he makes clever comments, I used to meet students like him, most grow up in time.

comment 83
BangkokRay date : 21/06/2009 time : 23.01

HJ, 82,
Hope those "Posh" schools taught your kids to spell.

comment 82
happyjack date : 21/06/2009 time : 22.09

To bloody right were exposed.Most of us 50 + Crowd are Rich.Rays ducked bullets for his right to live anywhere in the Free World,Ian's knocked his Knackers Of trying to give the Pups a Start,I've tried to make sure Metal stays where it should,and no Lefty is dipping in My Gravy.I love Flash Cars to piss twerps off,High Living and Dead Pandas.My Kids went to Posh Schools,you know the ones where Labour Leaders send theirs at the Workers Expense.To late for you Boy,just be a Contented Malcontent,in obscurity.You have been leading up to this reply.
Cluck with the Best, Die with the Rest.

comment 81
noonin date : 21/06/2009 time : 22.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

comment 80
Agreed.

comment 80
BangkokRay date : 21/06/2009 time : 21.40

keep it coming noonan. The British, Americans and Thais suck as far as you are concerned. Seems to me you have a real hard time assimilating to any culture. Whatcha think?

comment 79
noonin date : 21/06/2009 time : 21.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

You are exposed!

comment 78
happyjack date : 21/06/2009 time : 21.30

C71.You couldn't get much further afar, could you,perhaps you felt beneath all the Classes you mention and came here to look like somebody.Well you aint so far,just a wingin pom,as real Men Say.

comment 77
happyjack date : 21/06/2009 time : 21.21

British became second class when P.C.Wankers ,like Ken Livingstone bowed to the every demand of any Itinerant who spotted a free ride..Included in the let down i include Immigrants who have pulled their weight and been let down also.You see there is a Prob with today's Young,they think they know it all,and wonder why there so skint, no work Ethic, they just blame the System.

comment 76
noonin date : 21/06/2009 time : 20.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

I just live here so naturally have no understanding of it

So where do you live?

comment 75
noonin date : 21/06/2009 time : 20.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

class officially no longer exists in Britain. We have socio-economic groups

Are you joking!

comment 74
Ian date : 21/06/2009 time : 20.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Noonin, I bow to your knowledge of the British class structure, I just live here so naturally have no understanding of it

You might be interested to know, although I'm sure with your profound knowledge of all thing British you already do, that class officially no longer exists in Britain. We have socio-economic groups
http://www.ons.gov.uk/about-statistics/classifications/current/ns-sec/index.html

comment 73
noonin date : 21/06/2009 time : 19.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Last comment.
When has accent been a qualifier?
It is now fashionable to speak in a working class dialect.
Speaking and being accepted are very different.
Class exists in England.
You and Happyjack can continue your rants. Britain is a closed society.

comment 72
Ian date : 21/06/2009 time : 17.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Noonin, when did you last visit England? Have you listened to the Princes William and Harry speaking? One has a middle class accent the other working class.

comment 71
noonin date : 21/06/2009 time : 14.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Comment 69
How did the British working class become second class citizens?
They were and still are third class citizens; upper class, middle class, working class.
You are out of your class here, go back to England and see where you fit in to the social hierarchy.
Easy to trump your ignorance from afar!

comment 70
BangkokRay date : 21/06/2009 time : 10.38

Reasoning on a qualitative level means nothing to me.

Expresso, That is blatantly OBVIOUS.

comment 69
happyjack date : 21/06/2009 time : 07.17

Alcohol and Blogs don't Mix..........Alien,so true.Obama is the Anti American Dream come true.Just give him time.The Eagle Cries in its Nest.As the English workind class have become, second class citizens,so will you..

comment 68
Ian date : 21/06/2009 time : 04.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Expresso, if you were truly honest with yourself you would see that your comments are always destructive and critical of other people. Why don't you write a constructive blog, how you think things should be rather than simply attacking others.

comment 67
expresso date : 21/06/2009 time : 03.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Reasoning on a qualitative level means nothing to me. Verbal dexterity, when I see, which carries no beef is bland.

All these so-called debates, to me, come from people who hold vastly different fundamental values. More importantly, the people in the debates can't even share what's right and wrong.

Now, tell me, does a debate make any sense and yield results?

Well, needless to say, Pomjuk, you and I are wide apart in our belief in fundamental values and don't share the idea of what's right and wrong. Since we have no confrontation earlier I would like to keep it that way if you don't mind!

comment 66
Pomjuk date : 21/06/2009 time : 02.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/pomjuk

expresso: I did not find Ray’s comment offensive in anyway. It kind of agrees with Max’s point that the country is divided politically, the illegitimate government is restrained by prostitutes in the parliament and the government is unable to come up with any significant policy that will help businesses get thru the tough time.

The businesses prefer to avoid addressing the root cause of the problem which is basically the political problem; that leads to more severe economic problem. Businesses are now putting themselves in the wait and see mode. That tells me that the country’s economic growth will be slower than it should have been without the political problem. And if you think the condition is going to take the turn for the better may be you should show us your reasoning.

comment 65
expresso date : 21/06/2009 time : 02.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Let's bestow T a title - Sir Thugsin. Well, Britain can do anything anyway cos it's number one in pc.

You know, today, at a click of a mouse, people everywhere can experience what people anywhere can experience. So, when I click my mouse on BBC, like program "Have Your Say", I thought I was in an Arab country. Then, I try to tell myself that it's all about presenting balanced views.....Yup, right on, bro! If you honkies want to kill yourself, be my guest!

comment 64
expresso date : 21/06/2009 time : 02.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

c63, you can go to a sound sleep alright. You ain't thin skin like you said - that I know!

I also know that you have a certain superiority complex that you shouldn't have, that's an advice!

Verbal dexterity doesn't impress me like it does to many of the so-called intellectuals. It's the beef that I appreciate!

comment 63
BangkokRay date : 21/06/2009 time : 01.14

Expresso, #60,
I'm devastated. You dislike me. How can I go to sleep tonight knowing that the famous Expresso from TV dislikes me? What on earth could I do to get back in your good graces? I'm just an old American, with a very thin skin and a very sick opinion of freedom of speech and press. Should I repent so I can get your approval?
I'll even drink the same kool-aid as you do. Whatcha think?

comment 62
BangkokRay date : 21/06/2009 time : 01.06

Expresso,
Tell me, does the truth hurt?

comment 61
BangkokRay date : 21/06/2009 time : 01.04

Expresso, #56 & 57,
Thank you for you kind and endearing words. However, suggest that in your future nicities you might want to consider that in a Democracy, people are entitled to think and express what they choose to think and express. However that doesn't seem to be the same "Democracy" that you espouse to. Sorry, but yours seems to be a more Burmese form to me. Feel free to continue your ranting and claim to defend a Democratic way of life, but I, like many others here, realize just where you are coming from.

comment 60
expresso date : 21/06/2009 time : 00.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Of course, BangkokRay is one joining the gang that I dislike.

comment 59
expresso date : 21/06/2009 time : 00.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Alien, c58, Thugsin is God to BangkokRay, an American. He thinks Thugsin can solve anything (he did qualify, a third world country), so I thought let BangkokRay brings Thugsin to America and solve all the fcuking problems. I don't know what he thinks when he fits up Thugsin and Obama!....What a doochebag!

comment 58
Alien date : 21/06/2009 time : 00.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Comment 56 - Expresso - why are you either dumping Thaksin on the Americans or otherwise trying to link him to the Americans? He was the product of Thai people voting him in and I would contend that many other countries were more supportive of him than the U.S. We have enough problems with Obama. Go away!

comment 57
expresso date : 21/06/2009 time : 00.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

A country which breeds fuckfaces, who make ignorant comments, thinking their own countries, which they have left, represent the ideals need to be fcuked over.

No discount is needed also when you compare your countries and Thailand. What a fcuking racist pig!

comment 56
expresso date : 20/06/2009 time : 23.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

"Thaksin was far from a saint, but his administration gave this country much more hope than this country has ever seen. IMHO, Thailand has started going backwards since his departure with not too much hope for it to change any time soon."

I say let the Americans bestow him, that is, Thugsin, a honorary American citizen, to solve all the problems besieging America....Yup, damn fcuking right!

comment 55
Ian date : 20/06/2009 time : 23.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

comments 54. Even simpler, Thai politicians are mostly gangsters of the Godfather type and what we see portrayed as politics are simple turf wars amongst the Godfathers.

comment 54
BangkokRay date : 20/06/2009 time : 22.03

Pomjuk, #53,
Your post was the shortest and most concise sequence of events that I have read on this or any other site.
I'm sure the novelists will come back with Thaksin and his proxies did this and that that prompted all the events that you summarized. Thaksin was far from a saint, but his administration gave this country much more hope than this country has ever seen. IMHO, Thailand has started going backwards since his departure with not too much hope for it to change any time soon.

comment 53
Pomjuk date : 20/06/2009 time : 19.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/pomjuk

To understand what Max is talking about; readers need some basic understanding on what going on in Thailand is.

Thailand runs by the mafias at the very top. In 2006; the mafia staged military coup and removed the democratically elected government, banned 111 members of the parliament from the political stage for 5 years. It then dissolved the majority party favored by folks in the rural areas: the Thai Rak Thai party. Not lonely than the mafia rip off the 1997 constitution and implanted a new constitution which is a decoration for the mafia to rule the country.

In 2007 there was an election; the democrap party which was in favor by the junta, southerners and city folks once again failed to win the majority seats. The mafia formed the yellow shirt crime organization and used it to put political pressure on the government. It then later staged a judicial coup by ordering the disbandment of 3 government coalition parties and again banned of another 100 or so more MP from political stage for 5 years. (So the total is now over 200 MP are banned)

Still the Democrap party holds the second most seats in the parliament; was unqualified to form a government since it does not hold the majority seats. The Democrap in 2008 then staged a parliamentary coup by buying 27 Members of the Parliament (called Navin Shitchob’s friend group) from the majority party reducing the votes of the majority party. The democrap then was able to form the current government.

The Democrap since then has been standing on shaky ground, very often was extorted by the prostitutes in the parliament unable to get any job done. (as you know with prostitutes no blow job unless the deal is done first)

As the result of the worldwide economic slump and the yellow-shirted terrorist closing of the Bangkok airports; the Thai economy has been affected more; compares to the rest of the world. For example the tourism industry; on average Asian countries the number of visitor is down by 15% but it is down nearly 30% in Thailand.

comment 52
happyjack date : 19/06/2009 time : 19.30

Max, wch does babble a bit,perhaps ive been here to long,i can follow him.As for Mr T. i warned what his Target was,and have been proved right.I re iterate, until the Old Money are put out to grass,nothing will change.We waste our words.

comment 51
MaxHeadroom date : 19/06/2009 time : 15.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C49: I think all official numbers are doctored constructively when it comes to government budgets and fiscal spending or debt - not just in Thailand. Some are approximations and depend on the data available.

The later is also true for unemployment numbers or economic growth especially when negative.

When you take the data as constructed then you can be sure that it had been even more doctored after the military seized power simply because most of the control mechanisms and independent auditor organizations can hardly operate freely. From the mere fact that the data looks so bad you can see already that the truth about money misappropriated after the coup must be magnitudes worse. Whenever there is no checks and balance the gangster go on a shopping tour - right? And under Thaksin all of his enemies were permanently after finding his money trails. But after the coup? Without a constitution and by the rule of the barrel of a gun and tanks? Make up your own mind folks.

That's how it happened.

The data at hands in anyway proves most of wch's babble about Thaksin's borrowing wrong as he is in contradiction to external debt and loan figures.

And ad C48 - even if refinancing occurred it is nothing out of the ordinary as long as total debt is declining and installment can be paid back under a growing economic regime.

comment 50
happyjack date : 19/06/2009 time : 06.47

Look who runs the B.O.T.,all fine Men and True,i dont think so people.

comment 49
happyjack date : 19/06/2009 time : 06.40

As i see it,once you have deciphered wch.he is winning on Common Sense.You note he never refers to the Web.People who can see Constructive Accounting never do.Hans Christian Anderson has long been the guide and mentor for Thai Balance Sheets..A.V. and Mr Chaun are, decent Chaps with bent backers,whereas Thaksin was Bent and backed himself.Until this situation is remedied,and new Foundations are dug it will remain a Sinking Ship,whilst pundits who make a living out of the Chaos will give useless but plausible sounding advice. I see some bloggers rely on the old English Army saying,Bullshit Baffles Brains.Getting the Books right is easy,removing the Cause is the Problem.Thailand could be a Nice little Earner, if i could Prune it Back.

comment 48
wch date : 19/06/2009 time : 05.53

"Thaksin borrowed money and paid back IMF and later the parliament approved the borrowing"

was confirmed in this parliament debate and,
AV " I will not do such practice, so I put this issue into the parliament in advance. If bill is refused by MPs, bill will go down immediately".

Thaksin borrowed higher interested loan and paid back low interested IMF loan and, boastfully declared,
" We graduated IMF "
Indonesian and Korean presidents thanked to IMF and they pledged more fund shares to the bank but
Not a thank nor a fund of a share were told by Thai people.
In the future, IMF will seriously consider if Thailand has same problem.
It is interesting to see hom much Thailand can borrow from ADB, the handsome new fund pledge of 3 sponsoers, 80 billion dollars.

comment 47
wch date : 19/06/2009 time : 05.41

Ian
Correct, Thailand, in this term, enjoys its notoriety.555
Anyhow, wise foreigner always keep 'immovable documentary evidence' like wch.
I keep all long dollars accounts as well as the bank certificate that had supported my deals in Thailand.
This will prove "I brought that money and I will take it out".
Corporate is same.
Tesco invested here 3 billion dollars. When they leave Thailand, they will take out 5 billion dollars after dispose jumped land price and trade value.
Thailand, in any mean, will try to rip the profit of 2 billion dollars, 555 TIT

comment 46
Ian date : 19/06/2009 time : 00.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

wch, is there any law that forces a bank to accept your Bahts and give you dollars, what if they just refused? As far as I see banks make their own rules to suit themselves, like this 150Baht ATM charge on foreign cards.

comment 45
MaxHeadroom date : 19/06/2009 time : 00.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

C41: a truck load of nonsensical manipulation again. Have your friend come over with some official statistic then. Over Thaksin's 5 years in power that would make something like THB 200Bn / year. ND this is the usual 'I have a friend who told me thing to distract form the fact that you don't understand anything about numbers and are just hired to spam us full with nonsense then.

In numbers what counts is the balance not borrowing. Countries borrow all the time. But to get you a good online graph http://indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=th&v=94 - here is what happened to external debt after Thaksin took over - and what happened when the military seized power? Ok. He clearly reduced debt and produced some results other than Chuan's blabla do nothing gang.

But everybody here can see these numbers from the BoT for themselves - in English http://www2.bot.or.th/statistics/BOTWEBSTAT.aspx?reportID=81&language=ENG

You can go there and check from 1999 to 2008 that in fact Thaksin reduced both debt as well as public loans. And just look after 1997 - 2001 from what mess he started out. In the later period Chuan manaed only to increase loans.

That too is black an white in the BoT stats.

So ND et al. why don't you back off and crawl back to the hole you came from.

Falsified

And tell your friend - I even have stats that he doesn't even want to put in his database.

comment 44
happyjack date : 18/06/2009 time : 22.28

I thought we were.

comment 43
notdisappointed date : 18/06/2009 time : 21.43

hap, we could always talk about beavers!

comment 42
happyjack date : 18/06/2009 time : 21.15

Its blogs like these that make Pandas Interesting.

comment 41
notdisappointed date : 18/06/2009 time : 20.41

maxwell c21, I did post a truly factual figure as confirmed by my firend who is Dpty D.G. of the Office of National Debt.

"maxwell, in your discussion with the minister in question; was there any mention of the more than one (1) Trillion Baht that thaksin borrowed during his regime?"

But your attempts to brush it off leaves me with the impression that were I right then our treasury has been paying off debt encurred by the thaksin government hence little would remain to address the economic recovery. Debt that he had to encur to pay for his many many megaprojects?

AND if my information is correct, then it would lessen your arguments that AV has no fiscal discipline, but that his government was made pauper by thaksin's own fiscal indiscipline.

comment 40
wch date : 18/06/2009 time : 20.30

Ian 38,
Please understand as a principle in understanding exchange reserve and its management rules.
Foreign reserves is accumulated because somebody brings the foreign currency such as foreigner investor. Here I represent an foreign investor into Thai real estate by bringing 1 million dollars and exchange it into 25 m baht at rate of 25 baht, say 15 years ago.
When I sell it and leave, I may bring the sale money 34 mln baht to exchange into dollar, a million dollars and remit it back to my Tokyo account. Therefore this means Thailand keep my a million dollars and return it to me.

Anyhow if this transaction is true, I didnt lose any money in dicit as well as business, why ? I used the condo for 15 years without rent cost.
However I may suffer 'opportunity loss' because If I use this money in Shanghai bullish market, I may rotate several turns of trade and grow my first a million dollars to 10 million dollars !.

comment 39
wch date : 18/06/2009 time : 20.20

comment 37
BangkokRay date : 18/06/2009 time : 19.05
wch,
FWIW, I was a Financial Analyst for 38 years before I retired. Most governments work under the same arrangement and we call it appropriations.
- Only federal government fiscal accounting uses this word, not in Thailand or many countries.

You choose to blame it all on Thaksin
- I didnt blame Thaksin. You are supposed to make proper question why I said, "Thaksin emptied state coffer". Thaksin's 5 years rule had introduced many continual special project such as village fund or sme bank that demand annual share out of annual special accounts. AV government can not cease Thaksin projects although most of tax money goes stale. For instance, sme bank lending are gone 70NPL. By this big burden, AV government virtually has no resource to introduce special, stimulus package unless raising debt.
American professional may have difficulty to understand the independence of monetary policy of central bank in developing economy.

and I choose to blame it on the system being abused/corrupt.
- Please pinpoint.

That too is an international thing, but the degrees are different.
All politicians like to feed from the trough, just some more than others.

comment 38
Ian date : 18/06/2009 time : 20.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

wch, 31. This comment does not make sense to me, " If I sell my condo and pack out, Thailand must return my original dollars because I brought dollar and bought the condo."
If I sell my houses in Thailand I will get paid in Baht, if I care to convert that into GBP or any other currency is my problem not the banks. I do not think the Thai bank is under an obligation to convert them.

A further question, why do you struggle so hard to make economics incomprehensible?

comment 37
BangkokRay date : 18/06/2009 time : 19.05

wch,
FWIW, I was a Financial Analyst for 38 years before I retired. Most governments work under the same arrangement and we call it appropriations. You choose to blame it all on Thaksin and I choose to blame it on the system being abused/corrupt. That too is an international thing, but the degrees are different.
All politicians like to feed from the trough, just some more than others.

comment 36
BangkokRay date : 18/06/2009 time : 18.58

Comment #34,
The turd that I flushed 10 minutes ago has more credibility than you do. nuf said?

comment 35
wch date : 18/06/2009 time : 18.49

comment 33
BangkokRay date : 18/06/2009 time : 17.34

* In fact this is very important questions that all Thai citizens must understand.*

wch,
Which one of the finely run establishments is responsible for the govt to have to borrow 800 Bn baht then?

answer : A state fiscal acounting is tax revenue and its expenditure. How to effect it is called Fiscal policy. This is totally under responsibility of the administrator, ie Prime Minister.
In Thai constitution, every fiscal year tax revenue and expenditure policy and plan shall be approved by the two houses and the endorsement of the monarch. This is so called, Por Ro Bor op praman pi 2553 that is now in low house dabate.
AV government is 1,800,000 million baht for 2553.
The expenditure plan has two parts, one is ordinary expenditure and special accounting expenditure. The first is direct expenses such as salary of officials, defence cost and social welfare support etc. Second is in a word project funds. Funds may be annual installments on continous project such as subway or military purchase. Also new projects can be started such as several subways, bridges, road, communication etc.

Government expenditure is one of important attribute to GDP growth. (refer to Keynes formula).

Howeve AV government has no resource to cover this special project expenditures that badly need GDP growth target that re-employ the unemployees back.

Usually a state depends on borrowing but within permissible allowances, that is in Thailand 400,000 million baht. However why AV government put it on house debate is to know all citizens in this special situation of global economy and acknowledge its inevitability. Also the opposite pulled the debt into constitutionality review. This all automatically justify the bill into house debate. If the people's representative refuse, they can change the constitution. This means people decide on the debt and people take responsibility, by way of tax.
This is democracy.

Which will be responsible for repayment?
Therefore final responsibility-takers are tax payers.
Who are main tax payers ? must need more debate. Bangkok middle class or north and isan farmer ?. Anyone can answer. MP representing less taxpayers must lower the voice in the house but contrarily their voices are more loud and some were expelled from the debate by their misconducts today.

Where will the funds come for repayment?
- you dont understand the meaning of fund and tax,
go back study and make proper question.

Since AV is such a genius, how did he allow this fiscal situation to happen?

- Thaksin, he emptied state coffer.

Your answers would be appreciated.
- I answered more than you questioned,

for all blogger's education.
------------------------------
This question is very important.
"Why Thaksin party members in the house try to project BOT reserve as Thaksin's effort ? and Why they press AV to use the reserve instead of borrowing ?".

1. The surplus or desposable 30billion dollars was saved during Surayudh government, absolutely not during Thaksin time. Thaksin time balance reserve was 80billion dollars, the marginal line to keep Thai baht at 42 baht.
Therefore Peauthai now tell a lie but,
Average Thai citizens are unable to understand this.

2. If AV declare today, " Our government will spend some exchange reserve". Tomorrown Stock market is collapsed, and foreign investors rush to remit back green back, this will make baht to high rocket if not crunch.

Then, why Peauthai push it so hard ?.
That is the matter of their morality.
If they can incision any damage and press AV to dissolve house, they will do any thing.
They dont care whether economy collapses or not, whether people are starved or not, whether Thailand ends up with another crunch or not,

They don't care.

Here their morality is the question. This question must be answered and educated Thai people must press them to make proper answer.

comment 34
peacefulness date : 18/06/2009 time : 18.36
nationmultimedia.com

comment33-- judging from ur comments on yoon's blog lately, u are such an idiot, mentally retarded, useless Zilch . how can u understand all the economic issues???????????

comment 33
BangkokRay date : 18/06/2009 time : 17.34

wch,
Which one of the finely run establishments is responsible for the govt to have to borrow 800 Bn baht then? Which will be responsible for repayment? Where will the funds come for repayment?
Since AV is such a genius, how did he allow this fiscal situation to happen?
Your answers would be appreciated.

comment 32
wch date : 18/06/2009 time : 16.48

because as long as Thailand hold a sizeable exchange reserves, credit stay high and borrowing is cheaper than using own reserves.

This is AVs' shrewdness. Thaksins are toddlers who can not understand this simple textbook.

comment 31
wch date : 18/06/2009 time : 16.45

Max c 30,
I wrote several times in two blogs that,
national finance management has two parts, one is monetary policy and management, other is fiscal policy and management. Also why two must be independently managed by different agency.
In a word, the huge reserves of BOT of 120 billion dollars is not deposit desposable but must be standby. If I sell my condo and pack out, Thailand must return my original dollars because I brought dollar and bought the condo. This means, BOT keep my dollars for time being until my claim.
All the 120 b dlr is sort of this kind.
Then what about the earning from Thai expatriats working in Taiwan, the incoming tourist money ?.
This part might be desposable but not a part of tax expenditure that is belonging to fiscal management by ministry of finance..
That money was exchanged into Thai baht and increased much in M2 that is total monetary amount flowing in money market. If this baht money returns for other currency, BOT must exchange it. Such currency market will fluctuate baht value. Exchange rate is so sensitive and if BOT buy in local baht enmasse, the exchange market will be surprisingly shaken and investor and depositors quickly move their deposit and cause overalll chaos.

That is why, AV clear-cut " We will not touch exchange reserves".
Global money market is oversupply condition. Most of money is sleeping in bank and disposal is big problem. AV target this cheap source. His finance gangs are so shrewd.

comment 30
MaxHeadroom date : 18/06/2009 time : 10.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

For those looking for clues as to where all the quotes come from that surface from the deep abyss that forms Max's mind:

'Parliament of Whores' - I borrowed that from P.J. O'Rourke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._J._O'Rourke

One at the time for ND and HJ

Btw. wch - different from your claims the vultures are already after the last BoT reserves http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/06/18/business/business_30105450.php

comment 29
MaxHeadroom date : 18/06/2009 time : 10.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom