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Grassroots Philosophy in East and West
Walk the bridge between East and West (you see more when walking) and reopen the gate between inner and outer Man
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/jern
Saturday , May 10 , 2008
Why I'm not an Atheist
Posted by talkfact , Reader : 279 , 18:36:37  
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Religion became the scandal of the left brain at the time when science came into being in Europe, due to its suppression of scientific facts.

In the beginning, this was not so. At that time religion was a way to create some logic in the world at a time when the state, the nation, was weak or non-existing.

This is clearly seen in the Old Testament. It’s a story about a tribe which, by using religion as a tool, created laws and order and the feeling of membership in a (tribal) society.

Thus, the left brain is capable of composing (religious) laws and written religion itself.

Written religion is a left brain project. Another left brain project is classical music. A friend told me that the composer J S Bach (18th Century in Europe) created a music which to the listener produces images of castles and cathedrals comprising every human feeling. I have listened to some of it and I think I can say there is no music like his, or by any his contemporaries, today. This elaborated music was a left brain project.

A third left brain project is science.

At the time of science there was another shift as well. Before, objects, (things, nouns)were at the centre. It is understandable, then, that the idea of gods came up, and finally ending with monotheism – one god only.

From science and forward we got another way of seeing it. The verbs now became the central thing and now everything was about relations. Relations among (between) objects. This was not accepted by Christianity until beginning 20th century and there are probably still many Christians who haven’t grasped this new idea. This is why religion might look as if it was non-existing and why Obeyone can say there is nothing to invent. I say the opposite:

You can invent religion tomorrow, if you do it according to this new view about relations between objects instead of static solitary objects, it will fit perfectly well into the present world-view. Again, this is the scandal about religion, it lives in a static world where nothing is supposed to change, and this is contrary to the believes of most people today. A written religion was not supposed to obscure facts – but that’s exactly what it does.

I’m talking here about the monotheistic religions. We see them stand against each other in the Palestine/Israel conflict and we see them stand against each other in India/Pakistan conflict. These are scandals and they are produced by religion itself every time it uses declarations which are thousands of years old without reflection about their possible use today. From a globalized point of view the existence of several monotheistic religions are not only illogical. They are in fact a danger to this world if they do not retreat from their fanatic several-thousands-of-year-old world views.

Thus, the left brain is not to be trusted without reflection.

The scientific society has failed to give its citizens a basic scientific knowledge. It was well on its way, in the 1960s-1970s with the much needed materialism and the manned space flights which fascinated people all over the world. And the view of the electrons as a particle circling around the nucleus was easy to grasp. This is no more so. We can see that science has created an environmental mess. And all the gadgets technology produces have turned into a mystery. The particle-view is about being deserted and what should come instead is not properly explained. And Science society is becoming more and more mysterious with its fanatic functional world views. It’s not that High School students know very much. Perhaps they did around the 1970s, but today – no. I heard at teacher (in Sweden) defend the High School students that they know almost nothing. He said that they know where to find the knowledge. They cannot spell properly but they know about rhetoric and how to express themselves. I say: if you know your books rhetoric has its place, but if you don’t know your books your rhetoric will only serve to make you even more ignorant than you were from the beginning.

I have seen reports about how well High School students in Europe understand when reading complicated texts. They understand almost nothing. Thus, the world around them has become a mystery. How come?

Because left brain has declared itself inferior in understanding this universe and it has done so due to the scandal when it had religion to suppress scientific facts.

That’s why the left brain now, supported by science, can say that the Human Mind consists of nothing but physico-chemical brain processes. I don’t deny the brain works by such processes but those processes were not what initiated the human mind to create music, neither did they initiate science itself.

That’s why I am not an Atheist, even though I don’t believe in the monotheistic religions of today – standing against each other the way they do, being tribe religions as they are (Christianity is a tribe religion as much as the others).

I take the following words literally: “There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.” (Max Planck).

(In one way Buddhism seems to have grasped this, in another way they don’t).

 Hence, I believe the Human Mind to be part of a field, a system with an entity of getting aware and that human awareness has got a much higher quality than that of the animal world.

In Burma (Myanmar) we now see a regime which has degraded to animalism and they can do it as they are supported by Big Business. The human mind can take this path and degrade itself this way but I think the majority of people in this world see it as a shame, a moral degradation. Hence, we need moral and ethics, too. And once religion pointed at that fact.

Finally, I’m not an Atheist as I believe the Human Mind does not cease to exist after physical death of the body. All is energy, it cannot cease to exist. It shifts its form, yes, but it does not cease to exist. If you exist today, you exist by this energy and you cannot cease to exist. Your ego will cease to exist, but why not ask yourself: did it ever exist?

This piece was a direct response to Obeyone’s blog “Why I’m an Atheist.”

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/obeyno1/2008/04/20/entry-1

especially to some of his, and Felix’ comments on that page.

 

 

 

 

 


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comment 9
Obeyno1kinobe date : 15/05/2008 time : 13.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/obeyno1

What is life?

Many different definitions. We seem to know intuitively what is alive and what isn't. Maybe life is a complex system that uses energy to maintain the order integral to its internal function. Until it dies and entropy takes over.

Dead stuff and living stuff is made from the same stuff.

Every thought, a complex electrochemical processes.

What is consciousness. Being self aware?

Again, I think we we have to agree to disagree.

A future mission for some of our atoms may be to a dead plastic banana leaf.

All that seperates the living from the dead is the processes that fight entropy and propagate the next generation.
comment 8
talkfact date : 14/05/2008 time : 15.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/jern
penfact 

Only one thing; I think a redefinition of "death" had been helpful here.
After all "death" is no further from the living body than silence is from thoughts. Every thought was created from silence and
every living body was created from "death".
The only thing I can see as completely dead is a plastic banana leaf
(and similar stuff) as they were in fact born death - they never came to be part of life whereas the genuine banana leaf comfortably leaves
this world by its self-organizing process and immediately its universal
building bricks are ready for a new mission.
comment 7
Obeyno1kinobe date : 14/05/2008 time : 13.25
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/obeyno1

TF, I agree anyone could start a new religion. They might borrow or link to some of the older ones, to give them credibility, like the Mormons (Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter day saints. Don't tell Religion, but I think that Islam did the same 1400 years ago, borrowing the Jewish and Christian raw materials. Or something completely new like scientology with it;s own myths and traditions.

What we are unlikely to see is miracles, seas parting, global floods, gods walking the earth, or on CNN.

I also abhor the caste system.

I disagree with Max. We don't need to assume a conscious intelligence behind everything? Just because humans have trouble grapsing a reality without conscious purpose behind it, doesn't mean it is true.

In fact it just shifts the question back.

It is easy to ask if Brahmin exists. Does he/she? Is there any evidence. No. It is just another concept to help us understand or put some meaning in the universe, that started before people understood things as well as we do now.

The Moaris of New Zealand have a myth about the North Island being a big fish and the South Island being a canoe. They created their own explanation for how things were.

When I was a kid, I noticed that Africa and South America looked like they kind of fit together. Later on I learnt about plate tectonics - Eureka. Seems a better explanation than the fish and the canoe.

You can't absolutely dispprove the existence of a supreme being. In fact their could 17 of them, taking turns. Even some great modern scientific minds attribute the magnificence of the laws of physics to this prime mover.

This is just how human minds work. We think cause and effect.

But it just moves the question back. You answer the question, "how did the universe come to be". God made it. How did God come to be. Oh, well, um, God has always been there.

why can people accept a eternal god which out cause, but not an eternal unvierse without cause. Because we are human mammels perhaps, limited in our comprehension.

All the "proof for god/brahamin/prime mover is a work of conjecture and imagination, almost wishful thinking.

Braham was so remote the lessor gods were created to have some gods more involved in human life.

When we incinerate a tree, it's matter and energy is transformed. The tree as such no longer exists. My view is the same for human. Brain stops. Body rots or is burnt. No more consciousness.

Again, humans find it hard to accept a final death. An end to our existence and consciousness.

You can imagine an everlasting soul or spirit. You may imagine that even after the matter and energy from your body when you died, is dispersed that some spark of you continues. Really this is just wishful thinking, and I can't blame anyone for being scared of oblivion. Just too many scared of living as well.

(don't forget we cycle through atoms through food, waste, skin, sweat - we are made of the same atoms as we had at birth. In fact a lot of atoms that were once part of your body, are already part of other things now)

All our morals come from our evolved human nature and evolved society. Teamwork, fairplay, fear of death, trust. In some ways we are conficted because there are multiple pathways to survival. Self interest balanced with safety in numbers. Wanting to coral our females, but wanting to boink others. Our morals developed because they helped us survive and pass on our genes. In the past we started codifying these, often attributing them to gods.

The fact that so many religions at different times and places developed similar rules - don't kill, don't lie, don't screw other peoples partners - is evidence that morals come from us, not from outside us.

I'm an atheist. I have a set of morals I decided for myself, that I think are at least as valid as any rules attached to religion. I will have sex before marriage, but not forced, and not for money, and not with someone too emotionally immature. I won't keep slaves. I won't condemn homosexuals. I won't condemn masturbation, or oral sex. I won't kill rude children, or people who work on a holy day. I will treat women and peoples from other places as equals, even if they don't share my beliefs, and then judge them as individuals.

Actually religions and their organisations seem to have promoted more of the really bad moral behaviour. Aztecs killing sacrifices to make the sun rise. The inquistion. The bloodshed. The molested children. The enslaved women. The persecution of jews and homosexuals.

Finally, I disagree with many of your points, your key assumptions, and your conclusions. But I applaud your obviously deep reflection on these matters. And respect your right to believe what you want and I understand that my own understanding is limited.
comment 6
talkfact date : 12/05/2008 time : 21.40
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/jern
penfact 

The notion of Karma is now taken to an extreme test in Burma.
Does it do well on this test?
Does it confirms its outermost value?
Well, judge for yourself...

The Christian notion of the rights of the authorities is also taken
to an extreme test in Burma of today.
Does it do well on this test? No, it fails.
The Bible says that "the authorities does not carry the sword in vain"
(menaning that the authorities stand for law and order).
This is not a valid concept in Burma today. It is the people
of Burma who stand for law and order and the regime stands for criminal acts.
One of the greatest religious leaders of all times, Jesus himself, says in another passage that "those who live by the sword die by the sword."
In Burma today such talk is no more than cheap rethoric.
Thus, the book is not the solution in this case. Action is.
So much for the book.
comment 5
Lalida date : 12/05/2008 time : 15.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

TF,

Sometimes I find you too deep for me and I'm not joking....
comment 4
talkfact date : 11/05/2008 time : 21.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/jern
penfact 

Buddhism is a right brain project - at its base it's
about liberating the individual.
Sometimes I think that's good enough. Then again,
I know there is a tremendous power in monotheism, but a power which much as easily
is turned into a weapon, an army....
comment 3
Lalida date : 11/05/2008 time : 16.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

OK, thanks..no arguement The way I see it, when I go everything goes and I wouldn't bother if any of me exsist but I will be more concern of what I can leave behind to the ones I loved.
comment 2
talkfact date : 11/05/2008 time : 16.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/jern
penfact 

Lalida; in the Upanishads there is a passage: "He (Atman) is myself within the heart,
smaller than a grain of rice or a barley corn, or a grain of millet; this is myself within my heart,
greater than the earth, greater than the atmosphere, greater than the sky, greater than all these words:"
To me, this makes believing in a personal spiritual world a necessity. If not, there is nothing at all, and we
are all atheists. This gives "man-made" religion another dimension too; If our human mind is part
of this higher mind, this higher spiritual reality, there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to
hear its wordless thoughts.
Here is a comment about the Upanishads; "It is difficult to ask if Brahman exists. In a sense he is above
the concept of existence. You cannot sensibly ask if reality exists - it is simply that - reality. All you
can do is to debate its nature."

Buddhism deals with the psychological part of the Human Mind (which, as I just said, is not all there is).
It has an important function too, as the monotheistic religions tend to neglect psychology all together.
But life on earth is mainly psychological and we have the right to except a decent life here. To be born
into the Indian caste system, is a shame all together. Buddhism was, among other things a protest movement against that system.
Hence, Buddhism gives you the psychology, a monotheistic religion can give you the power of
believing in a personal spiritual world (and that's a tremendous power) but still none of them take you
more than half-way, partly because they were all created in a distant past.
comment 1
Lalida date : 10/05/2008 time : 22.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Talkfact,

So in a way, you're saying you believe life after death in another form such as soul or spirit......If so, can you tell me how you see it that way?
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