A Man's Random Walk

Monday , November23 , 2009

About us

Create Blog

Ginola
ranking : General member
created : 2007-11-13
entry : 63
visitors : 30418
votes : 25
send msg :

A Man's Random Walk

politik, economik, foreign affairs
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola

Tuesday , April 7 , 2009

Its not about Thaksin

Posted by Ginola , Reader : 1567 , 23:14:12

I hope the red shirts win the political battle. This is not because I am fond of Thaksin or because I want Thaksin as PM. In the years leading to the coup, I criticized Thaksin several times for his authoritarian style of leadership and his conflicts of interest. Today, I want the red shirts to win because I want to see the removal of the old "establishment" or bureaucratic polity - that is, the military and bureaucratic elites who have ruled Thailand for decades, often pulling the strings behind the scene, and are not willing to let the Thai people decide their own fate. It is time that politics be put in the hands of the people. Thailand's democracy needs to progress. I cannot stand media intervention and strict (and biased) control on freedom of speech, whether coming from Thaksin or the establishment. I cannot stand the political manipulation of the courts, whether coming from Thaksin or the establishment. I cannot stand the lies made by Thaksin or the establishment. I cannot stand corruption activity, whether it is carried out by Thaksin or the establishment. ......... Some red shirts may be hardcore fans of Thaksin (for he was able to deliver to them benefitial policies), but others are groups of people who want to see a true change in Thai politics. People, not the bureaucratic and military elites, should be the ones who decide the fate of this country. As a recent article in the Nation points out, “...the red DAAD have attracted many diverse groups who feel upset about the old powers and are willing to use Thaksin, and let Thaksin use them, to achieve victory.” Indeed, some of the red shirts used to join PAD protests but became convinced that PAD wasn't a true force for democracy. The old establishment has eaten away a lot resources already. Income inequality is high and has increased during the coure of the country's development. It is time that people be given the choice to pick their government and the real opportunity to advance their interests and concerns. For these reasons, I hope the red shirts win.

I hope the red shirts win the political battle.

This is not because I am fond of Thaksin or because I want Thaksin as PM. In the years leading to the coup, I criticized Thaksin several times for his authoritarian style of leadership and his conflicts of interest.

Today, I want the red shirts to win because I want to see the removal of the old "establishment" or bureaucratic polity - that is, the military and bureaucratic elites who have ruled Thailand for decades, often pulling the strings behind the scene, and are not willing to let the Thai people decide their own fate.

It is time that politics be put in the hands of the people. Thailand's democracy needs to progress.

I cannot stand media intervention and strict (and biased) control on freedom of speech, whether coming from Thaksin or the establishment. I cannot stand the political manipulation of the courts, whether coming from Thaksin or the establishment. I cannot stand the lies made by Thaksin or the establishment. I cannot stand corruption activity, whether it is carried out by Thaksin or the establishment.

.........

Some red shirts may be hardcore fans of Thaksin (for he was able to deliver to them benefitial policies), but others are groups of people who want to see a true change in Thai politics. People, not the bureaucratic and military elites, should be the ones who decide the fate of this country.

As a recent article in the Nation points out, “...the red DAAD have attracted many diverse groups who feel upset about the old powers and are willing to use Thaksin, and let Thaksin use them, to achieve victory.” Indeed, some of the red shirts used to join PAD protests but became convinced that PAD wasn't a true force for democracy.

The old establishment has eaten away a lot resources already. Income inequality is high and has increased during the coure of the country's development. It is time that people be given the choice to pick their government and the real opportunity to advance their interests and concerns.

For these reasons, I hope the red shirts win.

Post comment | send mail to friend

Read comment

comment 114
Ravej date : 22/04/2009 time : 11.44

Ginola said:

"The old establishment has eaten away a lot resources already. Income inequality is high and has increased during the coure of the country's development. It is time that people be given the choice to pick their government and the real opportunity to advance their interests and concerns".

But what do you define as "old establishment"? Would a man whose ancestors were well-to-do Chinese tax farmers, whose family (the Shinawatras) became one of the richest in Thailand and certainly in Chiang Mai, whose father was an MP, whose own rise to power was possible through his father-in-law's position as a powerful police general (Thaksin's first lucky break came from selling computers to the police department), who was able to make a fortune through a state-authorized monopoly, and whose family enjoys hereditary honours (the Order of Chula Chom Klao is a hereditary award for 2-3 generations) not regarded as elite or member of the "old establishment"? Sounds pretty elite to me. My family are nowhere near the mark and yet we are part of the "Bangkok Elite".

This is why I find it incredulous that the redshirts should choose Thaksin as their champion - as the person who is fighting against the establishment. Thaksin is clearly part of the old establishment!!!

The red shirts would be in a much stronger position at least morally, if they distance themselves away from Thaksin. Hey red shirts, try approaching Giles Ungpakorn or the other independent people I cited. They have a long history of trying to reform Thai society and their history is not soiled by the Thaksin/TRT brand (except for Khun Pavena, but she is still afable & credible even without the former connection to Thaksin).

comment 113
Ravej date : 22/04/2009 time : 07.59

Ginola is right: The fight between the reds and yellows should NOT be about Thaksin (or Abhisit, or Sondhi, etc). It should be about creating and maintaining a sustainable democracy. On the one hand this means both parliamentary elections and no interference from Privy Councilors and the Generals in Thai politics. On the other hand, it also means maintaining constitutionally created checks and balances as well as holding corrupt, yet popular charismatic politicians accountable for their crimes.

Where Ginola is wrong is when he says "I hope the red shirts win the political battle". I would prefer something more unifying and less partisan like "I hope Thailand wins" or "I hope democracy wins". Picking sides simply distracts our attention to the players (e.g., Thaksin) and not the ultimate goal of democracy. The red shirts would be better off asking reform-minded politicans like Giles Ungpakorn, activists like Pavena Hongsakul or other social thinker/critic like Sulak Sivarak to lead their cause and not Thaksin. In that way no one will be distracted into thinking that it’s all about Thaksin.

comment 112
happyjack date : 21/04/2009 time : 21.03

But as Ginola said,in his header,its not about Thaksin.Now Footballer Brain,worry not, we all know Elvis Presley caused it.Change youre pic to Ronald Mc Donald ,the masses swallow rubbish.

comment 111
Ravej date : 21/04/2009 time : 19.44

Ian, Comment 110,

Your missing my main point. My point was not why there are so few red shirt voices on the blog. Yes, we all know the red shirts are on the whole much poorer than the yellow shirts. No one here is refuting that fact. And in fact, I even acknowledge that some red shirts are sincerely motivated in changing many of the more negative aspects of Thai society (crushing power structure, societal inequity, cronyism, class bias/discrimination, etc).

*My point is that the red shirts should rely LESS on phone-ins from Thaksin and taking cues from the TRT leadership.* Instead they should express for themselves their notion of true democracy. They should find sympathetic academics, NGO leaders and others to help them verbalize their view points. They should also talk about their own postive experiences under Thaksin's various programs (many of them were enlightened). They should not simply be waiting for televised phone-ins from the demagogue. They also should have stuck to peaceful demonstrations even in the face of the Generals. In that way they would have had the moral high road over the yellow shirts. In short, the red shirts should try to distance themselves from Thaksin since he is a highly controversial figure and try to find their own voice. Their failure to do so makes them look like simple pawns to the powerful unsympathetic Bangkok elite, the yellow shirts and many of the people on this blog including myself.

comment 110
Ian date : 21/04/2009 time : 19.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Ravej, when you say, "Also there appear to be so few red shirts in the third category as described above", you make an assumption, the same assumption as the yellow shirts make in these blogs. You assume there is equal opportunity to be heard.

Let me ask you this, to post a blog or comment here what is needed? A telephone, a computer, an internet connection, some knowledge of how to use them. Now how many poor redshirts fit this requirements, and before you say internet cafes, remember in the countryside there is not one every few hundred metres like in Bangkok.

Now yellow shirts are more affluent, many have these facilities, or if not, easy access to Internet cafes.

So just from internet traffic one cannot judge the relative strengths, it is also why only a few Farangs can express the red viewpoint.

Just think I live in a village of several hundreds, just 35 kilometers from Bangkok, yet I am the only one with Internet access.
Is it really suprising the red voice is so little heard in these blogs.

comment 109
Ravej date : 21/04/2009 time : 15.11

Ian, Comment 107,

I think there are many different groups of people wearing red shirts. Some are in it for themselves (some rural poor have received THB 2,000 for participating in Bangkok rallies), others are in it for Thaksin (the "die hard" Thaksin clients in the old client-patron system), and still there is a third group have perfectly legimate gripes against the current socio-economic & political system in Thailand.

I think it is hard to fault the yellow shirts and others on this forum for their cynicism about the motives of the red shirts as Thaksin has been very apt at promoting his family's and follower's interests during his term in office (rachada land case just one example) and historically has been good at using people to further his interests.

Also there appear to be so few red shirts in the third category as described above. The first and second groups appear more prominent and more vocal (not to mention as violent as the yellow shirts). If the first and second groups are really motivated by promoting true democracy, then they themselves must downplay their own reliance on Thaksin (as demonstrated by his many call-ins). They must invite & listen to academics, NGOs, etc. that have been championing the cause of the poor way before Thaksin entered into the political arena. For themto do so otherwise would as you so aptly say "intentionally divert [their attention] from the bigger picture".

comment 108
Ian date : 20/04/2009 time : 10.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

107, if Thaksin were to drop dead tomorrow not a lot would change, there are far more players in this game than Thaksin. Giving a player a red card in a football match does not stop the rest of the team from playing on.
Might I suggest that you look around the various power structures in Thailand and identify who else, apart from Thaksin, has benefited or hoped to benefit from the recent Red activities.
As long as you concentrate on Thaksin your attention is being intentionally diverted from the bigger picture.

comment 107
notdisappointed date : 20/04/2009 time : 04.06

It’s about thaksin and it will always be about thaksin.

As long as he is financing and inciting the reds to violence and revolution for his own selfish and self-serving goals then he and only he is to be vilified.

The red shirts have since their inception under the auspices of the thaksin loyalists; weng, jakrapop, jatuporn, nattawut, as well as certain members of the 111 crowd, have relied on verbal as well as physical violence as their modus operandi. All they’ve been good at is the propagation of half truths and true lies as well as unsubstantiated allegations and accusations.

Don’t be naive; it’s about thaksin and will be until he ceases and desists from his ongoing machinations and attempts to create divisiveness and destabilize the Kingdom, and return a hero not a convicted felon.

comment 106
maverick263 date : 14/04/2009 time : 19.44

@ ginola, c.104

as much as i like ur blog.

i'm pretty sure u honestly believe saying, "Given the incidents in the last two days, I still claim that for many red shirts, it's probably not about Thaksin."

i don't want to argue with u ab that. i did elsewhere. anyhow --- believe me or not, in global mind sphere, the equation now is a very simple one:

thaksin -> finances udd -> udd sets out to destroy law & order of a country: "terrorists"

ginola, maybe i understand what u want... maybe i understand felix' grief ab this "global perception".

see it as a chance. cleanse "red shirts" from any thaksin, trt, etc ties.

& allow for talks w Abhisit.

just my 0,02bht. i'm cheap ,)

comment 105
maverick263 date : 14/04/2009 time : 19.36

this is a bit off-topic. & i guess must of u know it. i like it: crisis really can emerge into new systemic orders :-)

"Manit Saengthong, leader of Darrulaman Mosque community, said that the community opposed the violence instigated by the red shirts during the past days.

Some of the protesters invaded and destroyed properties of a mosque, Manit said.

"We will submit a petition to King of Dubai through United Arab Emirates ambassador of Thailand, requesting the King not to allow Thaksin to enter the country and use it as a springboard to attack Thailand," Manit said.

The request will also be for other Muslim countries, he added."

nation, yes ,)

comment 104
Ginola date : 14/04/2009 time : 11.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

Ct103,

Given the incidents in the last two days, I still claim that for many red shirts, it's probably not about Thaksin.

Out of the 100,000 or so reds that showed up last week, only a few thousands were involved in violence yesterday. How can you write off all reds as Thaksin? Interviews with the reds have clearly suggested that there are many who wear red not because of Thaksin.

So if you never even talk to red people, don't state a groundless opinion. Sure, a big chunk of reds - noone knows for sure how many - are pro-Thaksin, but others are not pro-Thaksin per se. Thaksin was used by them to achieve their cause.

comment 103
khonkhangnok date : 14/04/2009 time : 11.15

this is probably one of the most ignorant posts ever

comment 102
peacefulness date : 14/04/2009 time : 11.10

THE REDSHIRTS ARE NOW PREPARING TO DISPERSE AND GO HOME

comment 101
FelixQui date : 14/04/2009 time : 10.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

peacefulness,
The US also condemned the PAD's airport seizures.
Did you? Did your current FM?
Why the double standard?

comment 100
peacefulness date : 14/04/2009 time : 10.22
nationmultimedia.com

ginola-- open ur eyes, if u are blind forget it.

US condemns Thai violence by pro-Thaksin protests
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/04/14/headlines/headlines_30100491.php

comment 99
Jaratpan date : 14/04/2009 time : 08.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Jaratpan

Felix : it s my version of freedom of speech - how do u like it?

Well, I think it is all about Thaksin. He made this. Fighting among Thai people.

Thaksin lies. Only the fool believe him.

In Bangkok, red shirts are fighting and killed civilians. They park gas trucks (company owned by Thaksin's brother in law) in front of residential buildings, hospitals and shopping malls.

The violent red shirts are terrorists - paid by Thaksin.
Thaksin never care for people lives - anything just to get his money back.

comment 98
peacefulness date : 14/04/2009 time : 08.20
nationmultimedia.com

ginola---- the LIAR of the century talks to bbc

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/far_east/7996781.stm

comment 97
FelixQui date : 13/04/2009 time : 21.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Kennedy,
Thank you for the tip. Naturally, we all want to make a difference for the better. But I should warn you that if you dive into the big pond, you will not get far saying that facts don't matter in forming beliefs. Nor will that sort of comment do your cause any good, quite the contrary.

comment 96
Kennedy date : 13/04/2009 time : 20.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Kennedy

Please help all bloggers to let the world listen…
You can make a difference, use the word you are so good at, use them to tell your story it is time to help The Thai government image, Taksin Terrorist are using all his spin-doctor’s now to make story about the military kill people, that Thai police shot people down on the streets..
So all bloggers in here, help to write your words so also People around the world get your words and not only words from a Terrorist that buy time on CNN or other TV stations.
This is time to help your country to give them your eyes on the terrorist Taksin.
So go to al blog sites, for the big newspaper and write what you do in the Nations, there is not many readers here that is novice about Taksin Terror, but there is in BBC, CNN, ZDF and all other big TV or newspapers.. Use your time to link to your post in Nations or write to their blogs site..
You can make a difference by doing this now..

Just one link.....
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/13/thailand.protests/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

comment 95
peacefulness date : 12/04/2009 time : 21.42
nationmultimedia.com

pics, niponh phromphan pm's secretary unable to escape, attacked and injured by the redshirts in interior ministry now in hospital for treatment.

comment 94
peacefulness date : 12/04/2009 time : 21.42
nationmultimedia.com

pics, niponh phromphan pm's secretary unable to escape, attacked and injured by the redshirts in interior ministry now in hospital for treatment.

comment 93
peacefulness date : 12/04/2009 time : 13.55
nationmultimediia.com

arisman pongruangrong arrested.

comment 92
Ian date : 12/04/2009 time : 13.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I need not have worried, I briefly though peacefulness had been cured of his insanity, I am glad to see he is not, I would miss his regular deluge of pictures.

comment 91
peacefulness date : 12/04/2009 time : 11.22
Nationmultimedia.com

pics, THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL (EVILSSSSSSSSSS.........................)

comment 90
Peace_Out date : 12/04/2009 time : 10.43

Of course it's about Thugskin Square Face (6 sided flip flop) with a few crumbs of sympathy to the rural and uneducated for their devotion.
This mob's leaders have time and time again deferred to their leader, who they have claimed is in command.
Wake up........
A few sympathy crumbs will be left to the supporters.

comment 89
peacefulness date : 12/04/2009 time : 10.29
Nationmultimedia.com

for all Thais

""ประเทศของเรา ไม่ใช่ประเทศของหนึ่งคนสองคน เป็นประเทศของทุกคน ต้องเข้าหากัน ไม่เผชิญหน้ากันแก้ปัญหาเพราะว่าอันตรายมีอยู่ เวลาคนเราเกิดความบ้าเลือด ปฏิบัติรุนแรงต่อกันมันลืมตัว ลงท้ายไม่รู้ว่าตีกันเพราะอะไร แล้วจะแก้ปัญหาอะไร เพียงแต่ว่าจะต้องเอาชนะ แล้วก็ใครจะชนะ ไม่มีทางชนะ อันตรายทั้งนั้น มีแต่แพ้ คือต่างคนต่างแพ้ ผู้ที่เผชิญหน้าก็แพ้ แล้วก็แพ้ที่สุดก็คือ ประเทศชาติ ประชาชนจะเป็นประชาชนทั้งประเทศ ไม่ใช่ประชาชนเฉพาะในกรุงเทพมหานคร ถ้าสมมุติว่ากรุงเทพมหานครเสียหาย ประเทศก็เสียหายไปทั้งหมด แล้วก็จะมีประโยชน์อะไร ที่จะทะนงตัวว่าชนะ เวลาอยู่บนกองสิ่งปรักหักพัง"

พระราชดำรัสพระราชทาน ณ พระตำหนักจิตรลดารโหฐาน

วันที่ ๒๐ พฤษภาคม ๒๕๓๕

comment 88
peacefulness date : 12/04/2009 time : 09.34
nationmultimedia.com

or these "BAE" (errand boy, lackey,servant, slave) to run our country???????????????

pics, jatuporn/jakrapob/veera/dr weng.....

comment 87
peacefulness date : 12/04/2009 time : 09.27
nationmultimedia.com

mob leaders arisman/r and other leaders

ginola, u want all these political thugs to rule our country??????????

comment 86
peacefulness date : 12/04/2009 time : 09.19
nationmultimedia.com

ginola-- u wrote "I hope the red shirts win the political battle"

u want these people to win and change thailand to the better place??????????????????? u are goddamed fool.

comment 85
peacefulness date : 12/04/2009 time : 09.14
nationmultimedia.com

ginola--open ur idiot eyes and see by urself, if u are blind , forget it.

comment 84
Ian date : 12/04/2009 time : 09.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Is it my imagination or is peacefulness actually asking for the yellow shirts to be punished?

"Both the red- and yellow-shirt sieges were illegal and went beyond any standard acceptable to the general public. Now the only way to restore the country's image is for the government to strictly enforce the law and take legal action against all those protesters involved in violations."

comment 83
peacefulness date : 12/04/2009 time : 08.40
nationmultimedia,com

Pics, bkk post fron page "SHATTERED"

ginola-- is this what u want??????????????????

from bkkpost front page on tdy's issue 12apr09

QteRule of law can reverse day of shame
By: EDITOR'S COMMENT
Published: 12/04/2009 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: NewsYesterday was a truly shameful day for our country, which had its international image destroyed by the siege of the Asean+6 summit venue in Pattaya and the embarrassing postponement of the forum.

It was illegal, and against all reason, for the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), under the manipulation of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, to raid the venue in a bid to humiliate the Abhisit administration. Although the red-shirt protesters achieved their goal of forcing the regional forum to be postponed, they cannot plausibly claim victory as in doing so they ruined the country's reputation.

It is not only the government's shame, but the whole country's. Thaksin is the first person who should be held accountable for the debacle.

It was his urgings in daily speeches via video-link to the red-shirt protesters that encouraged them to undertake illegal actions.

First they trampled on other people's rights in blocking several main roads in the capital late last week and causing traffic chaos.

But it was totally unacceptable for them to move to Pattaya and lay siege to the hotel where the leaders of 10 Asean countries and six others were scheduled to meet.

Thaksin always claimed in his speeches that he was fighting for democracy and the future of the country.

But our question is this: Does he really want to restore democracy or does he only want his seized assets back and a return to power?

At the same time, the Abhisit government is also to blame for mishandling the situation in Bangkok and Pattaya.

Under the constitution, people have the right to organise peaceful demonstrations to air their grievances. But the blocking of several main roads in Bangkok went beyond a peaceful demonstration.

The situation in Pattaya was even worse. By international convention, the government must ensure the highest level of security to protect international leaders.

By any means, protesters must be prevented from entering the restricted area where the leaders gather.

But what happened in Pattaya showed that the security measures implemented by the government were inadequate.

Maybe the Abhisit administration was thinking of its image and trying to maintain a peaceful facade in handling the protesters.

By not taking tough enough measures to protect the venue, it turned out that the image of the country, not the government, was ruined.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva announced shortly after the UDD protesters blocked roads in Bangkok that his government was going to "strictly enforce laws" in handling protesters who violated the law. But since then nothing has been done and the fruits of that inaction were witnessed most embarrassingly in Pattaya yesterday.

In November and December last year, the country suffered greatly as the yellow-shirt protesters, under the leadership of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), laid siege to Suvarnabhumi airport. Only four months later, Thailand has been damaged even more by the collapse of the Asean+6 summit. Both the red- and yellow-shirt sieges were illegal and went beyond any standard acceptable to the general public. Now the only way to restore the country's image is for the government to strictly enforce the law and take legal action against all those protesters involved in violations.

As His Majesty the King has said: What is the use of claiming victory when the nation is in ruins? In such a case, nobody triumphs, and it's only the nation that has lost.
Unqte

comment 82
peacefulness date : 12/04/2009 time : 08.27
nationmultimedia.com

"red out" from bkk post 12/04/09

comment 81
khamala date : 11/04/2009 time : 11.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/khamala

73) as long you're blogging here publicly I will refer to your screen name 'peacefulness' whenever I want to. Compared to you and others, I won't use foul language or insult you personally, of course. If you wish not be referred to at all then I think it's probably better to deregister from the nation blog. best wishes!

comment 80
FelixQui date : 11/04/2009 time : 10.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

peacefulness, re c.79,
The reds know that their actions will harm Thailand's image, exactly as the PAD yellows knew that their actions were harming Thailand's image.
So far, the reds have caused less actual harm than the yellows, whose occupation of the airports really harmed hundreds of thousands of travellers and millions of Thai people whose income depends on tourism and the travel industry.

A bit of embarrassment is not particularly harmful. The closure of an airport is very harmful.

The reds have embarrassed Abshisit, as was their intention, so from their point of view, they have been successful.
The yellows managed to successfully embarrass not only Samak and Somchai, but also traditionally more revered institutions and figures, to whose images and reputations the PAD yellow's shameless and self-serving self-association has done irreparable damage both internationally and within Thailand, as the outspoken comments from the reds over the past week attest: such things could not and would not have been said in public in Thailand prior to the damage inflicted by the yellow shirted PADs.

Oh, and peacefulness,
"i can not tolerate ur ignorance
i can not tolerate ur blindness
i can not tolerate ur stupidity
i can not tolerate ur waste of time to be educated in us and still an idiot

i can not tolerate ur bullshits in the blog site
i can not tolerate ur naive understanding of thai politics
i can not tolerate.........
i can not tolerate...........

and so on.......................... "

And I don't much like your often filthy language, either. You might strongly disagree with me and others, but is it necessary to speak like a mad dog? Such ill mannered public displays also damage Thailand's image and the image of Thai people.

comment 79
peacefulness date : 11/04/2009 time : 08.27
Nationmultimedia.com

editorial from bkk post on tdy's issue 11apr09

Qte
EDITORIAL

UDD out to ruin image
Published: 11/04/2009 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: NewsThe red-shirted protesters of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) brought shame on themselves and the whole country when hundreds of their supporters stormed through the police cordon and besieged the venue of the Asean summit in Pattaya yesterday.

It escapes logic why the red shirts would want to ruin the country's hard-earned reputation and prestige as chair and host of the regional bloc, with their reckless actions. Do they think they can achieve the kind of democracy they are hollering for by shaming the Abhisit government in the eyes of foreign heads of state and government leaders? Do they think Thailand's duties and obligations in ensuring that the summit proceed smoothly and successfully are not theirs to honour as well?

While the red shirts have the legal right to assemble and air their grievances peacefully under our democratic constitution, that permit expired once they took their liberty so far that it trampled on other people's rights. The closure of major streets in Bangkok on Thursday which caused severe traffic jams and essentially kept city people, including patients and doctors at hospitals, trapped was unacceptable.

The brazen breach of the security cordon to get to the summit venue _ to what purpose only the protesters and their leaders know _ risks reducing the mass protest from an altruistic campaign for democracy (as they claim) into a self-serving endeavour with no regard for the national interest.

For the UDD's protest leader in Pattaya, Arismun Pongreungrong, to assert that the protesters ''are civilised'' and that they were not there to disrupt the summit, is plain poppycock. If the protesters were true to their claim _ that they were doing all this for the sake of Thai democracy _ then what was the point of demanding that a representative from one of the 15 countries participating in the meeting _ excluding Thailand _ come out to receive a letter from them? Is the protest not supposed to be a problem between them and the Abhisit government? Also, if they did not plan to disrupt the meeting, why was there the need to break through the barricade and soldier lines until they were directly outside the convention centre?

If they had wanted to tell the world that they did not consider this government as their representative, a peaceful gathering should have been enough.

The summit, which officially started yesterday, brings together the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations along with China, Japan, South Korea, India, Australia and New Zealand. It is by all means an important event and a forum in which problems can be solved, agreements forged and relations strengthened _ all for the benefit of both the Thai people and those in the region.

The focus of this summit will be on how best to tackle the global financial crisis which has affected all the countries in the region. But with the red-clad protesters clamouring just outside the foyer of the meeting hall, and with the government's attention divided between the discussions at hand and the need to ensure that the summit proceeds safely and smoothly, that worthy aim could be diminished.

The UDD and its red-shirted supporters have crossed a few lines in this latest leg of their protest, offences for which they must be held accountable.

But with the sanctity of national interest held therein, the Asean summit venue is the one inviolable line which the red shirts cannot be allowed to cross.

Unqte

comment 78
peacefulness date : 10/04/2009 time : 22.55
nationmultimedia.com

ginola,

i can not tolerate ur ignorance

i can not tolerate ur blindness

i can not tolerate ur stupidity

i can not tolerate ur waste of time to be educated in us and still an idiot

i can not tolerate ur bullshits in the blog site

i can not tolerate ur naive understanding of thai politics

i can not tolerate.........

i can not tolerate...........

and so on..........................

comment 77
peacefulness date : 10/04/2009 time : 22.47

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/nationvdo/showvdo.php?id=2105&name=News&cateid=13

comment 76
GGrass date : 10/04/2009 time : 08.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

usmale:

comment 75
expresso date : 10/04/2009 time : 02.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Sure it's not about Thaksin, it's about the supporters.

comment 74
maverick263 date : 09/04/2009 time : 22.26

@Ian, c.70:

thx a lot for time & attention u give to reflections.

"But he [Abhisit] made a deal with the wicked to get his job, now his is no longer in control, he has become a puppet."

1) i guess we enter realm of "causation"...

1a) who would be around in current thai political system _ not_ being limited/challenged by a frame of the game that involve "the wicked"?

1b) it might be right to conclude that "coming to power" due to support by "the wicked" implies... becoming their "puppet". i guess, at least, the puppet-masters will be sure it's a "fair deal", isn't it? according to customs?

1c) that's one thing i like ab Abhisit. u know where u come from --- but it _does not_ necessarily lead to u've to play by rules... that are outmoded & have become self-destructive. i'd say it takes more courage than all these guys shouting slogans, infatuated to bring sb down, "an enemy". ok, who's next?

1c1) i wonder, who'd be able to walk this mine-field of thai internal structural problems, heating up --- & _not_ giving in to established habits to "take control"?

1d) i said somewhere else: i like Abhisit. but i guess he'll go. not right now; well, maybe? --- but due to the culmination of "thai inherent structural crisis". i'm sorry, that's just 4 words. for a lot of suffering arising.

1d1) i think, Abhisit mastered & masters challenges..., inner, outer, power-play-structural ones, economics..., in a way not seen b4. he's moderate --- & for many ppl that equals "weakness"; esp for "wicked" "puppet masters" ,)

1d1a) i doubt military, police, pad & others are happy ab Abhisit's "performance" ,). funny thing is, even "outside" blogs complain ab his "apparent" "softness"... hee hee...

1d1b) i'd say he's complying to a rule of standards he publicly set as frame of reference. if he'll fail --- & i guess he'll go; it might be... he'd just be way too ahead of contemporary opportunities.

*...

"We need a government with no strings attached, no strings from the PAD, Thaksin, the military or the Privy Council. I cannot see this happening soon."

2) pls allow me 2 come back to this... a bit later. in general: nor do i, dear Ian. but... what is "soon" in terms... of cultivation of empowerment & well-being for all human beings? here's a smile :-)

2a) as u're from uk... what ab sharing uk common ppl experience of current trends?

comment 73
peacefulness date : 09/04/2009 time : 21.09
nationmultimedia.com

comment72--young lady pls refer my previous comment

Qte
comment 8
peacefulness date : 06/03/2009 time : 16.08
Nationmultimedia.com

comment5 khamala--- young lady, judging from ur logo, most probably i can be your father or even grandfather. no further with u young lady.
Unqte

u mentioned my screen name a couple of times lately in ur comments which i hv nothing to do with it, i would be very much appreciated if u kindly refrain from doing so . just let u know that i do not want to associate people like u. tks

comment 72
khamala date : 09/04/2009 time : 18.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/khamala

maverick/ xena: I have put 'SOME' in capitals for the sole purpose of saying that by no means ALL Thais are fake/aggressive whatever. I have Thai friends that are very different etc but this blog gave me an interesting insight into some attitudes which I haven't come across in real life partly because people like 'peacefulness' are probably extremely shy and polite in real life.

comment 71
usmale date : 09/04/2009 time : 17.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/a0

GGrass, C42/43. "To red shirts : Go home and take care of your family. They need you the most. Take good care of them. Love them, feed them, and be there for them.

Don't waste your time being bullet shield for politicians." This is so correct. I agree with you, but the fact is that Thaksin's people are still sending money to the red shirts (and if you are poor, won't you go and be fed and get 300 baht a day for just being there?).

comment 70
Ian date : 09/04/2009 time : 16.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Maverick, in theory Abhasit should be the right person for the job, he may even believe in what he says. But he made a deal with the wicked to get his job, now his is no longer in control, he has become a puppet.
Samak and somchai may have been puppets of Thaksin, Abhasit is equally a puppet of Prem and others.
We need a government with no strings attached, no strings from the PAD, Thaksin, the military or the Privy Council. I cannot see this happening soon.

comment 69
maverick263 date : 09/04/2009 time : 13.13

@Ian, c.62:

i agree w ur perspective. i also agree w what u & others have stated that's not necessarily ab thaksin anymore. & i also agree w what u've posted elsewhere that "this" has been building up long long time & it comes up from deep deep.

*...

u say, "At the moment they join the Reds because there is no other alternative."

let's say i go along w the term "Reds" to differentiate between "Reds" & mere thaksin cannon fodder. as w pad, reds have a structural problem: they're only "anti". both incite public fever, neither pad nor reds offer some coherent vision or platform.

i'd like to link to Ginola's posting, "The Same Old Thai Political Parties", @ http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola/2009/01/21/entry-1

reds, yellows, democracy loving thais... shd set up a party. that's what u do when u want to realize & foster ur interests. maybe it'll happen. who knows?

*...

i like abhisit. i said that b4. he's doing a good job. better than most i can remember. i don't see an alternative.

even if he steps down. even if he dissolves house. even if initiates new elections --- will that change anything? no. it's still same vested interests present.

also... right now, these very moments, _proof_, imho... that thai society indeed is a democratic one.

it's easy to burn down a house. it's a lot more difficult to build one. dear "reds"... start building one. u can do it. day by day. w comittment. perserverance. dedication.

comment 68
peacefulness date : 09/04/2009 time : 10.56
nationmultimedia.com

GGrass--some of ur comments in this blog highly appreciated and thanks a million.

comment 67
peacefulness date : 09/04/2009 time : 10.51
nationmultimedia.com

ginola u mean bkkpost the nation, local tv stns tv3/7/9 all wrong, theirs news reporters even attacked by the reds for reporting only "หลักหมื่น". natawut later claimed those reds not geneuine reds. now wake up , WAKE up from ur dreams.

comment 66
GGrass date : 09/04/2009 time : 10.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

IN a country with population of only 60 some million people, what the heck are 100,000 of them doing out on the street instead of doing something productive, like working???

comment 65
Ginola date : 09/04/2009 time : 10.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

Peacefulness ct 60:

Read for yourself, old man, this is my source and it was reported before I posted that the estimated 80,000 figure:

http://www.komchadluek.net/detail/20090408/8746/%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B1%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%A1%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%A0%E0%B8%B2%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B3%E0%B8%9C%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A1..html

comment 64
GGrass date : 09/04/2009 time : 10.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

30,000 and 200,000...

Just goes to show, Thai people suck at math big time.

comment 63
peacefulness date : 09/04/2009 time : 10.00
nationmultimedia.com

when all you guys(thais) will do the same, knowing the mistakes committed previously and perform a heroic remorse.

pics, from bkk post on tdy's issue

comment 62
Ian date : 09/04/2009 time : 09.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

maverick, I think there is some validity in your claim that the PAD showed the people the power of protest. I also think that many reds, yellows and neutral now realise that democracy has yet to be realised in Thailand. At the moment they join the Reds because there is no other alternative. The PAD was a unitary force, the Reds are more like a coalition.

comment 61
peacefulness date : 09/04/2009 time : 09.47
nationmultimedia.com

Ginola youngman still in the campus 25 yrs old ,most probable with government's scholarship (people's tax money), now ur comment59, it fully demonstrates that u are a absolute "ELUSIVE LIAR" please note that ur comment33 showed the time u posted is "date : 08/04/2009 time : 13.22 "claimedd 80,000 redshirts , it was only 30.000--40.000 reported by bkk post, the nation and other thai news media , the numbers rise to 60.000--80.000--100.000 in the late evening as reported by bkkpost
and the nation.

Ginola now pls do not twist all the facts to ur own favour, facts are facts. i am not those stupid idiot farangs that can be cheated by the people like you ginola. now pls stand tall as a thai citizen to protect your own country both domestically and internationally.

comment 60
xena date : 09/04/2009 time : 09.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/xena

ginola,
The figures given by BBC was over 200,000 as of last night.
I like what Felix has say, the one thing that the Yellows has shown is that that it is OK to challenge the authority.

comment 59
Ginola date : 09/04/2009 time : 05.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

Peacefulness:

On your accusation that I twisted the figures, read for yourself:

The number of protesters has risen to be over 100,000 at about 6 pm Wednesday.

Deputy Metropolitan Police chief Lt Gen Jakthip Chaijinda confirmed the figure estimated by field reporters.

(http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/30099955/100000-protesters-now-deputy-metropolitan-chief)

This is also from the Nation (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/04/09/politics/politics_30100011.php):

An estimated 100,000 or so members of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) took to the streets yesterday in the hope of dislodging the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration and Privy Council President Prem Tinsulanonda.

Now, who is twisting the facts? Well, probably people like Suthep who in the morning yesterday said that he expected some 20,000 people to turn out. Also, a Channel 3 reporter, probably citing Suthep, reported in late morning that there were some 20,000 red shirts. I don't know if Thai tv news shows enough footage of the red shirts for you to see that their number is at least the same or even more than the PAD at its peak.

Speaking about twisting the facts, I don't think anyone is better at doing that than a yellowish newspaper, which always over-reported the yellow shirts turnout.

comment 58
FelixQui date : 08/04/2009 time : 22.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

maverick,
I agree that one good thing to have come out of the PAD led protests was that they did send a message that people could stand up to authority figures when they felt that that was appropriate, and yes, that precedent was probably important in enabling the current protests. He is so obnoxiously loud that I sometimes forget that not all PAD supporters are like peacefulness.

If you thought I was pro-taksin or would like to see him return to power and continue pursuing his appalling policies, that was a misunderstanding. I think he should be in prison, along with such self-serving monsters as Chamlong the bloody, who is ever ready to sacrifice other Thai people's lives to his ideals.

The tardy economic growth of Thailand over the past decades must make us wonder whether the traditional elite really did have any interest in Thailand's welfare as opposed to their own. I think that Thailand could have, and should have, done much better, as, for example, did both SIngapore and Malaysia. Similarly, the appalling political ineptness and selfishness there is the only reason for Burma's current sorry state. I think a strong case can be made that the long standing elites did not enable Thailand's progress but that they consistently retarded it, and continue to do so.

Perhaps a new set of rulers won't do much better, but at least they would be chosen by the people, and could be readily changed at regular intervals, preferably through elections rather than by armed coups.

comment 57
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 22.28
Nationmultimedia.com

maverick263---c51 judging from ur comments on these two days , u are a nice reasonable guy, i take ur advice with thanks.

comment 56
maverick263 date : 08/04/2009 time : 22.28

@Ginola, 33:

"total systemic failure"... that sums it up quite well.

comment 55
maverick263 date : 08/04/2009 time : 21.41

@felix, 45&46:

u're so keen on words, aren't u?

1) pad brought down thaksin & trt: imho, truelly, a cancerous parasite entity in thai society --- at its time.

1a) assumption to "run" a country like a "ceo" leads to results. somehow it's a "top-down", "trickle-down" approach... if i'll be fine it'll benefit u too. ;-)

1b) others said, thaksin was a product of thai systems: he just exemplified worst case exaggerations. indeed, an economical entrepreneur wolf running amok among traditional elites.

1c) my 0,02bht: traditional elites cared more ab national well-being than a "ceo" whose interest is, by definition, "selfish".

*...

2) pad brought thaksin & trt down. imho, that was good. neither thaksin nor trt represented "democratic" forces --- in a sense of "empowerment of people". quite contrary, trt as entity & thaksin as "leader" _exemplified_ worst of potentials inherent in "thai historical system" of that time. just some years ago.

*...

3) pad not only brought thaksin down. imho, much more important, it was their public political carnival that attracted attention & people. different ppl. lots of different ppl. i can remember foreign journalists being at odds inquiring motivations & intentions of ppl attending pad nights weeks months. ppl just couldn't answer ,)

3a) that is, simply stated, pad introduced "public arena", "polis", into thai AWARENESS. we're not talking theory here... they were there, for months, u cd go & chat & it's thai ppl & a good cause, na. for months! anybody out there who tell sth like this ever happened b4?

3a1) i'm sorry folks... i call that mass scale empowerment. we're ppl, lots of ppl... & we can make a change! we can even shut down airports! ,)

*...

4) dear felix..., without pad there won't be no ppl rallying in the streets today.

*...

5) "On the bright side, a lot of ordinary Thai people who may not have done so before have clearly given some thought as to what democracy might mean, and to the related question of what might truly be best for Thailand and the Thai people."

5a) i'm sorry, u sound like some marketing guy. "ordinary thai ppl" ... "have clearly given some thought" ... "what democracy might mean" [btw --- i'd like to learn about that ,)] & "what might truly be best for Thailand & the Thai ppl" ... u wanna become mc for north korea's self-delusion? u wanna sell some charming snake-oil?

*...

6) "And they have not come up with the traditional answers, to the horror of the traditional elite.
Better still, many have realised that they can stand up and be counted, and need not lie prostrate whilst obsequiously accepting whatever crumbs are thrown them by their self-elected masters and presumed (falsely) betters."

6a) i tried to layout a symmetry where pad & udd are not enemies _by default_, but complementary in their roles/functions to allow ppl an awareness of self-empowerment. u get that?

6b) humility makes for a happy heart. just my 0,02bht

comment 54
Hermano_Lobo date : 08/04/2009 time : 20.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

I have deleted 'peacefulness's' comments on my blogs. I cannot compete with his excellent use of English, his deep and thoughtful expressions. The incisive debate and reference to profound philosophy.

P.S.
I bet the silly c**t thinks this is a compliment !

comment 53
Ian date : 08/04/2009 time : 19.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Xena, I think you took my comment out of context, it was addressed to Khamala and with reference to the people she named in her comment. In fact there are many mature Thais who I talk to on the BP forum, many have become friends. Strangely on the BP most of the aggressive and more foul mouthed bloggers tend to be a few farangs

comment 52
maverick263 date : 08/04/2009 time : 19.43

@xena, 35:

i guess most ppl here understand what u're saying. don't worry ab ur english, mine is worse than urs. so we're handicapped fumbling w a language that isn't our "mother's tongue" but we all use... 2 try 2 reach out, 2 connect, maybe 2 integrate.

u've a fair eye... 2 c events as u do.

comment 51
maverick263 date : 08/04/2009 time : 19.30

@peacefulness:

i guess u truelly believe what u say na khrap :-) sometimes that makes for confrontations/challenges as other ppl, quite naturally, do not can not & will not share ur point of view.

u make strong statements. for that, i guess, some ppl will like u --- & others will detest u. i wonder if u've asked urself how latter reaction can occur -- while u just want all best for greater good?

why not start w reducing amount of CAPITAL LETTERS IN UR POSTINGS. AS CAPITAL LETTERS shout at u. u want 2 b shouted @, peacefulness?

just 0,02bht

comment 50
maverick263 date : 08/04/2009 time : 19.17

@ khamala, 44

1) "if it wasn't for this blog I wouldn't have known how 'twisted' and hateful SOME of the 'always respectful' Thai people really are :-) ."

as others have said b4... u're new not only to blog-land but to thailand also. yes, "hate" has become an issue over last years..., indeed.

having said that, u get reflections of ur output.

*...

2) "I bet the entire establishment is in rage and anger that people after all these years have woken up and demand what they deserve."

2a) people in establishment mostly are cool, calm & collected. they trained a live to be like that. if u cannot be cool, calm & collected "positions of power" are not for you --- see thaksin.

2b) i wonder "what people deserve"? more of consumerist society? kill earth completely enjoying latest fad fetish? --- ooh i see, u prefer not only 1 drink..., but 2 @ same time... ;)

2c) "the red shirts need thaksin, they do not have the resources and know how to put up with the establishment, for many I have talked to it's a strategic alliance, that's all."

oooh, all that great talk ab "people's power" & in the end it comes down to "strategic alliances" again? ;) sounds u "understand" the "need" for another "top-down-revolution"?

"strategic alliances" with _WHOM_, pardon?

comment 49
xena date : 08/04/2009 time : 18.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/xena

Ian,
Thats a sweeping statement. Many foreigners and not just Asian has a vested interest in Thailand.
Further, even with vested interest that itself is not evidence that they want to put down the rural folks.

comment 48
xena date : 08/04/2009 time : 18.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/xena

Khamala,
I would prefer that you view different characteristics of a person as an individual. They have a particular behaviour and happens to be Thai. It does not make them representative of Thailand. I further think that you were not that unfortunate as not to meet some Thai who do not fake politieness.
Many Thais are genuinely kind and polite. Perhaps the only agreement that I can have is that this group are not presence in this weblog.

comment 47
Ian date : 08/04/2009 time : 17.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Khamala, the interesting thing is that the people you name as frenetic supporters of the yellows are not for the most part Thai, they are Asian. I suspect that like many Asians in Thailand they benefit from the holding back of the rural and poor Thais, thus they support the yellows who have similar objectives.

comment 46
FelixQui date : 08/04/2009 time : 16.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

On the bright side, a lot of ordinary Thai people who may not have done so before have clearly given some thought as to what democracy might mean, and to the related question of what might truly be best for Thailand and the Thai people. And they have not come up with the traditional answers, to the horror of the traditional elite.
Better still, many have realised that they can stand up and be counted, and need not lie prostrate whilst obsequiously accepting whatever crumbs are thrown them by their self-elected masters and presumed (falsely) betters.

comment 45
FelixQui date : 08/04/2009 time : 16.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

With people like peacefulness being representative, it is little wonder that decent, reasonable Thai people came to loath the PAD and all they stood for.
peacefulness sums up nicely what the PAD and their backers appear to be about: mindless devotion; blind loyalty; vicious abuse of any difference of opinion, however slight; xenophobia; foul language; and the perfect assurance that they are right to impose their will on an entire nation whatever the people might actually decide for themselves.
Thankfully, peacefulness is not representative of THai people. If he were, the Thai would deserve only contempt. Fortunately, the number of PAD types is small, though highly vocal as peacefulness also demonstrates. Unfortunately, they are the ones with most of the guns, a lot of the money and the traditional strangle hold on political power, which they have on intention of giving up to or for the Thai people.

comment 44
khamala date : 08/04/2009 time : 16.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/khamala

Ginola, nice blog and very sensitive comments. I bet the entire establishment is in rage and anger that people after all these years have woken up and demand what they deserve.
The numbers: international media report 80,000, people on the ground estimate more. the nation would say it was 30,000 even if it was a million.
the red shirts need thaksin, they do not have the resources and know how to put up with the establishment, for many I have talked to it's a strategic alliance, that's all.

I see peacefulness (and expresso, yabua and others) as objects of study into the Thai mind without the whole fake politeness that I'd get face to face. if it wasn't for this blog I wouldn't have known how 'twisted' and hateful SOME of the 'always respectful' Thai people really are :-) .

comment 43
GGrass date : 08/04/2009 time : 16.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

AS I understand it, they (red shirts) want some sort of 'change' in the society, right?

Start at home.

Men in red, go home and start being fathers.

Women in red, go home and start being mothers.

Men and women who are singles, hopefully you find someone you like at the rally and hit it off.

comment 42
GGrass date : 08/04/2009 time : 16.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

To red shirts : Go home and take care of your family. They need you the most. Take good care of them. Love them, feed them, and be there for them.

Don't waste your time being bullet shield for politicians.

comment 41
catch22 date : 08/04/2009 time : 16.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

Eloquently spoken by peacefulness, truly a typical PAD representative.

comment 40
xena date : 08/04/2009 time : 16.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/xena

I do not think Ginola has twisted anything. I have just heard it over the BBC about the real grievance of the REDs.

comment 39
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 15.53

why twist, twist and twist every thing to ur own favour????? 80.000 thugs .do u feel ashame of this ginola?????

ur articles and comments just another "BIG UGLY LUMP OF SHITS" . YOU ARE STILL IN THE DARKNESS NOT KNOWING ANYTHING AT ALL GINOLA SUCH A DEAD FOOL. SAME AS ALL THE OTHER BIRDS OF A FEATHER. UNHELPABLE AND BEYOND HELP.

comment 38
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 15.46
nationmultimedia.com

ginola 33/34-- again ang again u are such a perfect liar, u twist all the fact upside down v v, as reported by bkk/post Qte Police said about 30,000 red-clad supporters of self-exiled former premier Thaksin Shinawatra had gathered outside the main government offices in the capital Unqte

and the nation reported Qte At noon Wednesday, the number of protesters at the four main rallies sites in Bangkok were estimated to be about 40,000.

Police said the number of protesters was about 35,000 but reporters estimated about 40,000 people joined the rallies at the Government House, Royal Plaza, Makkhawan Bridge and in front the residence of Privy Council President Prem Tinsulanonda.
Unqte

other thai news medias reported more or less 40.000 protesters only. why twist , twist and twist everything to ur

comment 37
Peace_Out date : 08/04/2009 time : 15.00

Not about "One Man"??????
Time will give you the answer.
Things are not looking good.

comment 36
xena date : 08/04/2009 time : 14.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/xena

Can anyone tell me how to edit a post?

Correction:
"However, the continued failure the root..." should read "However, the continued failure to recognize the root..."

"They genuine cause..." should read "They genuinely has a cause..."

comment 35
xena date : 08/04/2009 time : 13.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/xena

First, I am not a Thaksin supporter and reading his history has also made think he is not innocent to the charges laid against him.
However, the continued failure the root motivating factor behind the REDs will only cause the problem to grow. Reds are not simply the opposite of Yellow.
They genuine cause to express themselves after all these years. They want recognition that they too have a right in this country, their contribution to its economy, and their right in the determination of how this country is run.
Thats what they really want.

comment 34
Ginola date : 08/04/2009 time : 13.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

Last but not least, the red shirt people are also fighting for their right to be treated as an equal human being and Thai citizen. The nature of the movement is different from that of the PAD. The PAD protesters see the wrongdoings of Thaksin and protest against it. Their motives are tangible.

The red shirts, however, want to be treated as equal and want to have their voices and choices heard and respected. The coup took away their preferred leader and the government that make them feel like human.

So, it's the democratic process that they are protesting for. It's the right to be treated seriously with respect as a thai citizen that they are protesting for. It's much more beyond the issue of Thaksin. The anti-Thaksin people don't seem to understand this.

They have also restrained from the use of force. Yesterday's incident which saw just a handful of protesters attacking PM's car was unfortunate and an exception rather than the rule. The red shirts also allow the police to check for weapons at the protest site today, something that the PAD protesters never allowed the police to do so.

comment 33
Ginola date : 08/04/2009 time : 13.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

To all (except peacefulness, whom I believe don't know how to reason):

I believe that many of the red shirt protesters are motivated not by Thaksin and his policies per se, but by the feeling that, for the first time ever, Thaksin made these people feel like they truly own and belong to this country. For the first time ever, it was Thaksin who made these people believe that they can have a say in the governing of this country.

This is something that yellow shirt people can hardly understand. It is a feeling that is hard to grasp unless you really go down there and talk to them without your own pre-set perception.

That's why the police estimated that about 80,000 red shirt protesters are there right now. It's a big crowd and it is too easy for someone to write them off as blinded Thaksin fans.

This is the reality. Change has been happening in Thailand and it runs deep in the country. If the military and bureaucratic elites continue to refuse to undertake some reforms, then I would predict that this anti-Establishment political force will continue to grow in the future. Thai politics will not be stable even ten years from now.

The red shirt protest will probably lead to no concrete results in the short term, but in the long term, the Thai soceity cannot escape the reality that change is indeed taking place. Adaptation is needed and failure to do so will only lead to deeper political division and greater political instability.

For some pictures of the red shirts (since the Thai media have been "asked" not to report too many stories in details about the red shirts):

http://www.prachatai.com/05web/th/home/16254
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/world/asia/09thai.html

When I have time, I'll write a blog to illustrate what one of my professors calls the "total systemic failure" of Thailand. The failures of the media, the courts, the academics, the military and the phuyai in the last few years to do what is right for the country.

comment 32
Ian date : 08/04/2009 time : 13.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Alien, 30. "Could you please provide approx. numbers and the source(s) of said numbers"

Would you expect a general at war to divulge the numbers and distribution of his soldiers?

Just for now accept the facts that a growing number of Thais are anti-Thaksin, anti Dem and anti-PAD.

comment 31
DKO date : 08/04/2009 time : 13.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/DKO

I agree with much of what Ginola has said here but regretfully I feel it should be headed

"Its not about Thaksin BUT Thaksin and few leading lights in the UDD (red Shirts) are trying to make it so".

Thaksin stirs the melting pot Big Time and like it or not, like him or not, he is leading this country down the road to Civil war if all are not very careful.

A tragedy in the making and all can see it building.

comment 30
Alien date : 08/04/2009 time : 11.31
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Hello Ginola, The following is taken from your introduction:
"Some red shirts may be hardcore fans of Thaksin (for he was able to deliver to them benefitial policies), but others are groups of people who want to see a true change in Thai politics."

Could you please provide approx. numbers and the source(s) of said numbers to support the above hypothesis?

Thank you.

comment 29
Dalmasian date : 08/04/2009 time : 11.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dalmasian

Sure, let the Red Shirted thugs win. Welcome to the new Communist People's Republic of Thailand. Wonderful thought, eh? But only wishful thinking, I am afraid. Dream on, Ginola. It's a free country -- to dream but not to destroy.

comment 28
Ian date : 08/04/2009 time : 10.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Peacefulness in his comments prefers quantity to quality. His preference for pictures rather than meaningful text show that he is the true Thai on the "omnibus". Naturally, this last comment will be wasted on him

comment 27
catch22 date : 08/04/2009 time : 09.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

xena - peacefulness talks in pictures, the same as he reads.

comment 26
GGrass date : 08/04/2009 time : 08.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

Whoever wins, make sure the winner annihilate the other side. Take no prisoner. Wipe them off the face of the planet.

Massacre. Genocide. Killing Spree. Ethinic cleansing. Final Solution. Whatever you want to call it.

Kill 'em all.

comment 25
GGrass date : 08/04/2009 time : 08.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

Len Kila See Eek laew lor? (are we playing 'color sports' again?)

comment 24
xena date : 08/04/2009 time : 08.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/xena

What do all these pictures show? A community or group have its fair share of people with voilent behaviour. It does not change the very basis of these protest: It is not about Thaksin.
The sooner we recognize this, the sooner we can find a solution.

comment 23
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 08.28

felix qui/GINOLA and all the birds of a feather-----the people like all of you shoud be OSTRACIZED" from the thai socity. no further with all of U.

comment 22
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 08.16

title read, "got the red shirt!!!!where is the money??????" bkk post tdy's issue

comment 21
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 08.09

pics, frm bkk post on tdy's issue 08/04/09

comment 20
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 08.05

pm abhisit's car attacked and damaged by the unruly redthugs at pataya yesterday 07apr09.

is this what u call democracy ???????????

comment 19
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 08.03

pm abhisit's car attacked and damaged by the unruly redthugs at pataya yesterday 07apr09.

is this what u call democracy ???????????

comment 18
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 07.59

pm abhisit's car surrounded and attacked by the redthugs yesterday at pataya street .

is this what u want ?????????????????

comment 17
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 07.55

self-explanatory......

comment 16
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 07.52

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta5MI8mWEYI

see with ur own eyes , these redthug can change thailand to the better place???????????

comment 15
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 07.51

is this what u want for thailand?????????

comment 14
peacefulness date : 08/04/2009 time : 07.50

devils monsters u want these redthugs to change thailad?????????????

comment 13
xena date : 08/04/2009 time : 07.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/xena

Ginola,
It is really not about Thaksin. I do pray for peace and the sooner that is recognize, the faster iwe will find a solution.
Rural folks are no longer the same in this new age, they know their rights and has acquired the skill to express this rights.
Twice since 2006 they have seen their democratic expression being ruined by a minority in Bangkok.

comment 12
Hermano_Lobo date : 08/04/2009 time : 06.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

Pomjuk,
I think we have more in common other than your excellent cooking.
You represent some of the real Thais I have met.
Great, and nothing like the bad ones that get the attention !

comment 11
Pomjuk date : 08/04/2009 time : 06.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/pomjuk

equality, liberty, fraternity

VICTORY!!!

RED POWER!!!

GO, GO, GO

comment 10
Hermano_Lobo date : 08/04/2009 time : 06.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

What the brain dead Thais on this blog cannot understand is that I can tell people like Dr Ungkaporn that he is speaking rubbish; then go down the pub with hin and continue, then have a laugh.
If this disappears from London, the end is near!

comment 9
Hermano_Lobo date : 08/04/2009 time : 06.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

P.S-
Sorry Dr Ungkaporn.
Your information and analysis is correct but your solution is bonkers !
Socialism for Thailand is not the answer.
Thaksin is !

comment 8
Hermano_Lobo date : 08/04/2009 time : 06.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

Well, myself and a West Indian Phd. Is free speech and democracy an alien concept?
I had just spent the previous few hours studying ancient civilisations in the British Museum.
Nothing changes !

comment 7
Hermano_Lobo date : 08/04/2009 time : 06.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

Just had an audience of 'Building for a Socialist Future' turn on me !

comment 6
catch22 date : 08/04/2009 time : 06.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/catch22

"It is time that politics be put in the hands of the people. Thailand's democracy needs to progress".

Well said Ginola - sums it up nicely.

comment 5
FelixQui date : 08/04/2009 time : 05.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

peacefulness,
Are we to assume that your manner of speaking is a fair representation of traditional Thai values and love of the motherland: offensive, loud, irrational, and filthy?
You are an excellent example of the desperate need for change in Thailand.

My apologies to Ginola on the contamination of yet another post, but knowing that peacefulness the bloody mouthed is out there lurking and waiting to befoul any disagreement with his narrow and nasty version of Thainess, it must have been expected.

comment 4
Hermano_Lobo date : 08/04/2009 time : 01.30
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

Viva Ginola !
Viva the Red Shirts !
This message comes from the Venezuelan Embassy where we are having a lecture about Comandante Guevara !

comment 3
maverick263 date : 08/04/2009 time : 00.27

"The old establishment has eaten away a lot resources already. Income inequality is high and has increased during the coure of the country's development. It is time that people be given the choice to pick their government and the real opportunity to advance their interests and concerns."

i guess that can be said... any time, in every country & culture, under any conditions.

comment 2
peacefulness date : 07/04/2009 time : 23.57
NATIONMULTIMEDIA.COM

NOW THE MOST IDIOT GINOLA COME BACK TO TALK HIS BULLSHITS. COLLABORATE ALL THE FUCKING IDIOT FARANGS TO ATTACK HIS OWN MOTHERLAND, HIS ANCESTOR'S LAND. SHAME ON U GINOLA . FROM UR PREVIOUS COMMENTS MOST PROBABLY U RCVD THE GOVERNMENT'S SCHOLARSHIP, AND NOW U TURN BACK AND BELABOUR UR MOTHERLAND SUPPORTING THE REDTHUGS , THE CRIMINAL FUGITIVE SQUARE FACE ,GO TO HELL. ALL OF U , FUCKING IDIOT FELIXQUI

comment 1
FelixQui date : 07/04/2009 time : 23.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

As incisive as we have come to expect from Ginola.

Comment

"If you are not member, please register to comment.
It take only a few steps."

member sign in | member register

name :
email :
website :
comment :

		back top

<<	April 2009					>>
s	m	t	w	t	f	s
			1	2	3	4
5	6	7	8	9	10	11
12	13	14	15	16	17	18
19	20	21	22	23	24	25
26	27	28	29	30