• Ginola
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A Man's Random Walk
politik, economik, foreign affairs
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
Wednesday , July 23 , 2008
A Fundamental Question on Preah Vihear Temple
Posted by Ginola , Reader : 601 , 16:13:49  
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The Cambodia-Thailand tension on the Preah Vihear Temple has escalated. Cambodia has brought the issue to ASEAN and the UN Security Council while Thailand continues to insist that the issue be resolved bilaterally.

This issue, however, has been politicized and used for political advantage by various parties. It has also been used to stir up nationalist sentiment in both countries.

But amid all these talks, where are the facts? What is the truth? What is the basis of the criticisms on the Thai government’s agreement to Cambodia’s proposal to register the temple as a World Heritage Site? Can Thailand oppose the move, and on what ground should we do it? Does Thailand really lose her territory because of this registration? What has Thailand got to lose because of this registration?

These questions have been discussed a lot but they are often mixed with nationalist sentiment and personal bias (against/pro the government). It is therefore my intention in this blog to consider these questions by looking purely at facts. In the end, I have a question that I hope some of you could help provide concrete answers.

To begin with, I have to say I respect and agree with the Constitutional Court’s ruling that the agreement signed by Noppadon should have first gone through the Parliament. It should not have been kept in the dark from the public. I also feel that the timing of the signing of the agreement – after Thaksin’s presence in Cambodia and after the removal of the Head of MFA’s Department of Treaty and Law – makes the agreement very sketchy and draws suspicion.

I have to say this first because I’m not writing this blog to protect the Samak government. The purpose is to look at all the relevant facts and see whether there is any logical and sensible reason why Thais should be worried about the temple’s recent registration as a World Heritage. Let me also say here that I do not have clear answers for all of these questions.

1. Do the temple, and the land it stands on, belong to Cambodia?

The short answer to this question is yes, the temple is Cambodia’s, but the land ownership is unclear, although it seems like Cambodia does. Cambodia owns the temple because of the 1962 International Court of Justice’s ruling. Here are some quotes from the court’s ruling (full summary: http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/45/12821.pdf).

“…the Court, by nine votes to three, found that the Temple of Preah Vihear was situated in territory under the sovereignty of Cambodia…”

The most important thing to take from the ruling is that the ICJ’s ruling was based on the “natural inference” that Thailand had practically accepted the so-called Annex I map, drawn by the French in 1907, in which the temple was situated within Cambodia’s territory.

“The Siamese Government and later the Thai Government had raised no query about the Annex 1 map prior to its negotiations with Cambodia in Bangkok in 1958. But in 1934-1995 a survey had established a divergence between the map line and the true line of the watershed, and other maps had been produced showing the Temple as being in Thailand: Thailand had nevertheless continued also to use and indeed to publish maps showing Preah Vihear as lying in Cambodia.”

“Moreover, in the course of the negotiations for the 1925 and 1937 Franco-Siamese Treaties, which confirmed the existing frontiers, and in 1947 in Washington before the Franco-Siamese Conciliation Commission, it would have been natural for Thailand to raise the matter: she did not do so.”

The natural inference was that she [Thailand] had accepted the frontier at Preah Vihear as it was drawn on the map, irrespective of its correspondence with the watershed line.”

“From these facts, the Court concluded that Thailand had accepted the Annex I map… The Court therefore felt bound to pronounce in favour of the frontier indicated on the Annex I map in the disputed area…”

“For these reasons, the Court upheld the submissions of Cambodia concerning sovereignty over Preah Vihear.”

The 1962 ruling made it clear that the temple was situated in the territory of Cambodia because Thailand had failed to raise any concerns over the Annex 1 map and therefore could be seen to have accepted the map.

And since Thailand recognized the jurisdiction of the ICJ, she had to accept this ruling as binding.

2. Could Thailand have appealled to the ruling?

According to the ICJ:

Judgments are final and without appeal. If either of the parties challenges their scope or meaning, it has the option to request an interpretation. In the event of the discovery of a fact hitherto unknown to the Court which might be a decisive factor, either party may apply for revision of the judgment.” (Read more about the ICJ at http://www.icj-cij.org/information/index.php?p1=7&p2=2)

Thailand had 10 years after 1962 to “request an interpretation” of the ruling, but she could not appeal the ruling. Revision of the ruling requires new substantial evidence, of which there has been none. So, for all legal and practical purposes, the temple belongs to Cambodia.

Now, here is something I am not sure on. Although the ICJ made its decision based on Thailand’s apparent acceptance of the Annex I map, does this ruling imply that the territory over which the temple is situated on legally belong to Cambodia? The ICJ’s ruling was specifically on the the ownership of the temple, not on the territory, but it certainly was based on the court’s view that the territory belongs to Cambodia because of Thailand’s apparent acceptance of the Annex I map.

So, by international law, does this ruling lead to the conclusion that the land on which the temple is situated belongs to Cambodia? Anyone who knows international law, please shed some light on this please?

Common sense would tell me that if a court rules that I own a particular building (which my neighbor claimed ownership too) and the basis of that ruling is that the land on which the building is situated is under my territory because my neighbor never says otherwise, then I would also assume that the land itself belongs to me. But legal issues are not always that straight-forward…

After the ruling, the Thai Cabinet “sliced” the piece of land in which the temple is situated on out of our map. The surrounding area of the temple, however, has still been claimed by Thailand. But this surrounding land also falls under Cambodia’s territory in the Annex I map. Thus, we have the so-called disputed land or overlapping land around the temple in which both countries claim.

3. Should Thais be concerned with the registration of the temple as a World Heritage by Cambodia?

Cambodia’s initial proposal to register the temple for UNESCO World Heritage included, based on the Annex I map, both the temple and the disputed land surrounding it. Thailand opposed this move, saying that it intruded into the disputed land which Thailand claims its sovereignty, and told Cambodia that it should register only the temple as World Heritage.

Cambodia then came up with a new proposal that requests registration of the temple plus just a few meters immediately surrounding it as a world heritage site. Noppadon sent the new map attached to this proposal to the military map division and asked if this intruded into the territory of Thailand. The military map division sent a team to survey the area and concluded that it did not. So, Noppadon went on to sign the agreement.

I think the key here is to go back to my doubt mentioned above:

Under international law and given that the temple legally belongs to Cambodia, does the land on which the temple is situated on legally belong to Cambodia too? The lack of clear answer to this question has led to confusion among Thais and has contributed to the tension.

If it does, then we should be very concerned because we might be losing our territory. If it does not, then I don’t see why we should be worried about Cambodia’s move. If the temple and the land are theirs, then they need not our consent to do whatever with the temple and the land.

There are other aspects of the Preah Vihear issue that are interesting and need attention – the nationalist sentiment, the use of the issue for political advantage, the resolution of the current tension between the two countries, and the disputed land surrounding the temple.

But I will just stop here with the above fundamental question.

(If the answer has been provided before in other blogs or sites, please direct me to them.)


Read comment

comment 25
peacefulness date : 06/08/2008 time : 12.20
nationmultimedia.com

gen. tea banh defence minister and cambodian senior minister var kimhong now all claim that Ta Moan thom temple belongs to cambodia without any legal doubt. what will happen tomorrow???????? some more temples along the border line??????? who knows????????
comment 24
peacefulness date : 05/08/2008 time : 09.56
nationmultimedia.com

now the cambodian authority goes another inch further by claiming the 13 century temple Ta Moan Thom µÒàÁ×͹¸Á belongs to combodia. what is the next target the combodia authority will go further ????????? who knows....................amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
comment 23
peacefulness date : 02/08/2008 time : 09.43
nationmultimedia.com


From bangkok post tdy 02aug08 front page partly
qte
Hun Sen's wife hosts huge Preah Vihear temple ritual.


Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen's wife Bun Rany yesterday hosted a huge ritual at the Preah Vihear temple to bless the country with good luck and to give it power against the backdrop of a dispute with Thailand over the area surrounding the temple. The ceremony, chosen to coincide with a solar eclipse yesterday, was attended by about 1,000 people, including high-ranking officials, priests and experts in rituals. The ritual started at 9.30am.


Far from softening its stance on the temple after it was declared a World Heritage site by Unesco, angering Thailand, Cambodia is flaunting the site.
----------------------------------
Although Bun Rany is the wife of Prime Minister Hun Sen, she is a powerful political force in her own right.


Her presence was expected to boost the morale of Cambodian civilians and military on the border near the temple.


Thailand sent troops into what it maintains is disputed land, but (Cambodia declared the area to be its sovereign territory more than two weeks ago )in a move that severely strained diplomatic relations.
Unqte tks
comment 22
peacefulness date : 28/07/2008 time : 15.56
nationmultimedia.com

another poem from "national poet laureate Naovarat Pongpaibul"

qte

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Unqte tks
comment 21
expresso date : 28/07/2008 time : 00.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

K. Ginola, re: your c10,

Why did you assume I was speaking ill of you when I merely said (in my c5) that you speak like an American?

Perhaps my c5 was intended to say what you have commented in your c10?
comment 20
peacefulness date : 27/07/2008 time : 21.19
nationmultimedia.com


the future for those traitors .
comment 19
MamaSan date : 27/07/2008 time : 16.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mamasan

Let's hear about the Preah Vihear Temple issue from the horse's mouth. Where are you, Tej Bunnag?


Mama San
Bangkok
July 27, 2008
comment 18
Ginola date : 26/07/2008 time : 18.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

Stupid poem... The temple (or the castle if you like) belongs to Cambodia since 1962. Why worried about it now? I dont understand how some people think, really. When something is not ours, we have to accept that it's not ours.

The Cambodians now think the Thais are illogical. The temple is theirs, so what's wrong with them registering it as world heritage. They also cite Thailand having signed the 1991 Peace Agreements agreeing the border line in which the temple lies within the Cambodia's side...
comment 17
wch date : 26/07/2008 time : 10.47

Grand Palace belongs to Thailand,
Emerald buddha temple belongs to Lao ???
Teach this to Cambodian people, too.
comment 16
wch date : 26/07/2008 time : 10.45

Teach your poet how to call the name correctly.
Prasat Kao Pra Viharn - The castle of mountain edifice complex.
Brahman temple is a small part of the castle.

Look at this, San Marino republic, in 60 km2 area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino
comment 15
peacefulness date : 26/07/2008 time : 10.39
nationmultimedia.com

wch--- hey you are brilliant this time, preahvihear temple belonged to cambodia, but prasat khao pra wiharn and the castle belonged to thailand . hahahaha.....................beautiful weekend. tks a million.
comment 14
peacefulness date : 26/07/2008 time : 10.31
nationmultimedia.com

for all thais--- Poem from "National Poet Laureate Naovarat Pongpaibul"

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õï ÂèÍÂÂѺáʹ·ÃѾÂÒ
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»ÃШҹªÑèÇä´é·Ø¡àÃ×èͧ
ªÑèÇÃéÒÂÍÑ¹ÃØè§àÃ×ͧ
ÃÐÂÓÂÓ »ÃÐà·Èä·Â

à¹ÒÇÃѵ¹ì ¾§Éì侺ÙÅÂì
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Unqte
comment 13
wch date : 26/07/2008 time : 09.25

The temple is owned by Cambodia, and the castle is owned by Thailand.

The answer is here.
comment 12
Ian date : 25/07/2008 time : 19.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

comment 11, I saw a lot of guys in white attacking a lot of guys in black, and vice versa. The police looks a bit outnumbered and rather disorganised. Basically it seemed like an animated version of Thai politics.
comment 11
peacefulness date : 25/07/2008 time : 17.53
nationmultimedia.com

Comment9----" please do not teach the crocodile to swim" . tks

please teach these uncultivated ,uninformed gangsters of pro-government, pro-ppp locals of udornthani . pls see thru it by youself. tks
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/nationvdo/showvdo.php?id=693&name=News&cateid=13
comment 10
Ginola date : 25/07/2008 time : 11.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

Expresso,

Is there anything wrong with speaking like an American? So every Thai should speak the same way? Is speaking about facts and asking logical questions considered non-Thai? How would one "speak like Thai"?

"The temple is Thai! We must fight for it back!" Is this what you expect to hear from a Thai? I certainly hope not.
comment 9
Ginola date : 25/07/2008 time : 11.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

Peacefulness,

If you listen to the Democrats' censure debate and the PAD leaders' speeches and interviews, you will see that what they say is not completely correct. True, they have some good facts and information and that's the basis for their criticism of the govt - that's good.

But what is not good is that they have gone beyond that by citing false facts and half-truths and using blinded-nationalist-driven languages, thereby stirring up the irrational, blinded nationalism we see today.

I want to see the opposition and the PAD criticize the government with the highest standards possible. And that means you ahve to use valid reasons with calmness and clarity. You have to stick to the facts - not twisted or half facts or blinded nationalist words.

The same applies for the govt as well.
comment 8
peacefulness date : 25/07/2008 time : 10.56
nationmultimedia.com

correction----volves should be involves,

righteouness should be righteousness. tks
comment 7
peacefulness date : 25/07/2008 time : 10.50
nationmultimedia.com

Comment4-- The whole scenario of Prasat Khao Phra Wiharn (preah vihear temple) dispute between Thailand and Cambodia has nothing to do with PAD AND DEMOCRATS, it volves mainly with the ministry of foreign affairs, national security council, and thai military cartographic division (mapping division) under the PPP's Samak administration. Sooner or later we, thai people, will be seeing the disastrous ending of this dispute.

Once again it has nothing to do with Pad and Democrats, before or after.

Please write something with fairness , righteouness with talent, not with Deceit and fib.

Further more reply not needed. tks
comment 6
Ginola date : 25/07/2008 time : 10.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

There is a cartoon in Matichon last month and this is my translation:

A: Dr.Charnvit said the Preah Vihear Temple belongs to Cambodia, historically and legally.

B: Ajarn Chanvit should beware that he might be asked by the PAD's academic.

A: Ask for evidence?

B: No. Ask whether he is a Thai.
comment 5
expresso date : 25/07/2008 time : 03.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

You speak like an American!
comment 4
Ginola date : 24/07/2008 time : 13.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

Lalida:
I certainly agree with you that the temple issue has been used as a tool to achieve political advantage by the PAD and the Democrats. It's true that there are sketchy things about this and that the government should be criticized and scrutinized by the Democrats and the PAD, but it is bad for the PAD and the Democrats to go beyond this and twist some facts around, thereby producing - intentionally or not - irrational nationalism among some Thais.

If you'd like to read more about the history of the temple, this piece (in Thai) by Thai history expert Chanvit provides an excellent comprehensive summary: http://www.prachatai.com/05web/th/home/12612

Felix:
Thanks for your comment. Clarity and calmness in this issue is rare among the blinded nationalists as well as among the govt's opponents simply because they only want to gain political advantage and topple the government. To them, toplling the government is the goal which should be achieved at all costs. I wonder if some of them even know all the relevant facts involved in the issue.

Frankly, I blame the media too for this. The media, apart from reporting what various people are saying, need to dig deep into the issue and present all the facts to the public too. In Thailand, however, the media have been too focused on going around and asking people's opinion, with much less energy devoted to really digging deep into the issue. At least, the media should have devoted more time to consult with experts and academics and report their opinion, which is likely to be less politically biased and more informative to the audience than opinions from the government or the PAD or the opposition.

Ian:
Thanks for sharing. I think this strange law of "foreingers cannot own land" is based on the fear that foreigners will come and buy and take over much of Thailand's land. But I don't really know this legal stuff...
comment 3
Ian date : 23/07/2008 time : 21.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I see a parallel here with the strange ownership laws which are applied to farangs.
When you purchase a building (a house) in thailand, as a farang you can own the house but not the land it sits on. There are two documents, a land title deed which has to be in a thai's name, and a house book which can be in a farang's name. The same applies to a condo a farang can own a condo but has no title to the land.

I know of no other country with this strange rule, in any other country if you own the land then you own the building on it. The converse is not automatically so if you own a building the land may be leasehold.

So I think Thailand is trying to say, Cambodia owns the temple complex but Thailand owns the land:-)

So the question becomes is the disputed land freehold or leasehold?
Under English law a leasehold of more than 30 years can be converted to freehold, but Thailand has very unique laws
comment 2
FelixQui date : 23/07/2008 time : 17.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Ginola,
Another clear, calm and well supported comment on a needlessly controversial issue. It's a pity those using it to incite unrest and irrational nationalism could not themselves practise a little clarity and calmness.
comment 1
Lalida date : 23/07/2008 time : 16.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

I don't know much about the history of this temple but as you mentioned, the temple issue is only been use as a political tool to attack each other. I'm sure a majority of Thais are also questioning "What the big deal about it,why can't we share it, is it worth fighting with violence and life and death of the people over a few pieces of left over stone and a piece of land that's worth nothing?". The word "Sovereignty" is just a meaning to the politician as "a tool" and nothing more.

If one really wants to solve this problem, then share it and since the only acces to the temple is through our border or the temple itself is sitting on our land, I see no reason why we cannot implement a charge on it if the people are so afraid of losing revenue.

I don't know what facts or truth lies behind this temple but I know the facts that it's at the moment been use as a political tool.
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