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A Man's Random Walk
politik, economik, foreign affairs
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
Wednesday , June 11 , 2008
Why I am against the PAD and my proposed solution
Posted by Ginola , Reader : 1010 , 13:22:05  
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I went to Burma in late May and was planning to write a blog on this great trip. Yet, since I came back to Thailand, I have had a headache following the Thai political situation.

So, I am in no mood to write about Burma right now, but I have a mood to write about the PAD and Thai politics. A lot of what I have to say here might have been said before by others, but I shall reiterate them anyway. As a Thai citizen, I shall have to right to express my thoughts, so long as they do not affect other people's rights.

Why am I against the PAD demonstration?

Before I proceed, I shall explain my principles that I uphold.

First, I believe that every citizen should have an EQUAL say in the governing of this country. The voices of the more educated middle and upper class people should not count more than a poorly educated ones. 

Second, I am a believer in the rule of law. Sports have rules, so does the society. Streetside politics, while essential and useful for many in expressing their opinions, should not be the principle means of politics. Criticisms of the government are welcomed, but serious actions against the government shall be within the boundary of the rule of law. For example, the opposition party can criticize the government in the parliament.

Third, I believe everyone's rights shall be protected. One has every right to do whatever one wants, so long as one's action does not affect others' rights. The PAD has every right to express their concerns, but it cannot do so at the costs of others' rights. 

Having mentioned all these principles, I now turn to the question of why I am against the PAD.

First and foremost, I disagree with the PAD's demands. The PAD wants the constitution amendment to be halted and the government to resign.

On the first issue, given the fact that the present constitution has not been drafted in the most transparent and participatory way, I believe constitution amendment should be considered. But it should not be rushed. There should be a committee set up to study the issues and come up with proposals. A referendum should be held later to allow people to decide. The PAD should not block the move to amend the constitution on the basis that it will help the PPP and Thaksin. The PAD should make its move based on the appropriateness of the amendment itself.

On the second demand, I am totally against it. This country's politics cannot be run by some 10,000 demonstrators. Even if the number of protesters is 1 million, I would still say the same. We had national elections and most people in this country have expressed their will. Who the hell is the PAD? Some god or what? What special abilities and rights do they have in deciding whether one thing is good for the country or not?

From what I have seen so far, I'm sad to say that I think many well-educated people in this country are much less democratic than people of lower ranks in the northeast. This is such a sad fact for Thailand.

What if the government resigns? What will happen? Another elections in which the PPP will likely win and the PAD will subsequently protest? Or even if the Democrats win against all odds, what improvements can it bring to the country? The PAD people look very childish in this sense: they are voicing out their thoughts, which is fine, but they don't really offer any solution that is in the best interest of the country.

Second, the PAD's actions affect others' rights. No need to elaborate much on this note. Just talk to students, people who make a living in the area where the protest is, talk to taxi drivers, or a pregnant woman who has to walk a long way to the Ministry of Education to work. So much has been said by the PAD about "doing this for the country"; yet they have failed to respect their fellow citizens' rights.

I would not complain much on this note if the PAD were to stage their protest in closed space like Suan Lumpini. Why wouldn't they do so? Well, it's all about publicity. Self interests at play here.

To sum up, I think the PAD actions might be based on good intentions, but the demands and means are childish and irresponsible. The Democrat Party also lacks professionalism - it knows it cannot beat the PPP within the rules, so it supports the PAD for its own self interest.

What solution do I have? It's rather simple, nothing fancy.

First, the PAD needs to take a step back. It must first move its protest to somewhere else where it doesn't create much trouble for others. It must stop demanding the government's resignation. It can continue to pressure the government on constitution amendment or any other corruption / wrongdoing issues, but it shall do so without demanding the government's resignation. Rather, the PAD is in a good position to encourage the government to work hard to fix the country's problems, no matter how much the PAD hates Samak and co. 

Second, the Democrat should stop supporting the PAD and be more serious about criticizing the government in the parliament. The Democrat should focus its energy on scrutinizing the government's actions and telling stories about the government's potential wrongdoings in the press. This is constructive politics, not the old kind of politics which the Democrats have been accustomed to for so long. The Democrats should also focus on developing strategies and policies in order to win future elections. Only then can the Party has the chance to win popular support, which is very much the basis of democracy.

Third, the government should avoid any confrontation - by words or by actions - with the PAD. The best move the government can do is to work hard in fixing the country's problems. There are so many of them waiting to be fixed these days!

Samakkee is crucial at this moment for Thailand to withstand its many problems. In a democratic society, it is totally fine to disagree with each other, but it's not okay to demand that the country be run in one's own will. Only when all the parties involved forgo some of their self interests can the country move forward.

 


Read comment

comment 40
Ginola date : 21/06/2008 time : 12.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

I understand that there are a number of PAD people whoe have sincerely good intention for the country. They have every right to voice out their thoughts and participate politically by joining the PAD.

I also agree that the Samak govt have not done their jobs well enough and I support the PAD on this front.

Yet, I see that a lot of actions carried out and issues brought up by the PAD are too soapy and silly. They have done "too much" and this country's interest, with which the PAD claims to be protecting, might have been suffered by the PAD itself.

The government sucks, the PAD has become too soapy, the Democrats lack clear vision and leadership, the media also sucks and are just not up to satisfactory standard...

Where is the future of Thailand?
comment 39
Lalida date : 15/06/2008 time : 19.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

I will be a pro PAD if they're really fighting for the people and join the parliament to oppose in a democratic way of government's wrong doings.
comment 38
Sulasno date : 15/06/2008 time : 18.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/sulasno

offering solutions to solve problems is what Thailand needs at the moment;

everyone can argue till the cows come home and yet it doesn't make Thailand a better place;

I am not Pro PPP and I am definitely Anti PAD;
comment 37
Malv date : 15/06/2008 time : 18.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/fishtank

Number 84 from the top? Not bad! Well done, Thailand.

We have to admit that corruption is everywhere in Thailand. And we will still face the same problem over and over again regardless of who is running the country. What really worries me is that people start to see it as a norm. I would like to see a government that supports accountability and transparency. As far as I can tell, Samak's administration has been doing the opposite.

With or without vote buying, I believe that PPP would have won the 2007 election anyway. A vast majority of people support PPP because with PPP, they feel respected and well taken care of. Vote buying was (allegedly) done to enhance their victory. I do respect the choice these people make, since it seems to improve their quality of life at some level. The real question is whether the benefits they receive from the government are sustainable, or just a different form of vote buying through taxpayers' money.

As much as I want to see a better government, someone will have to hold me at gunpoint to get me to join PAD. Their chauvinistic attitude towards PPP supporters is far from being constructive. It also undermines reconciliation. This is too bad, because we need someone to keep close watch on the government (since the opposition party doesn't seem to be doing the job well enough). I really wish that PAD could adopt a more moderate approach. And I hope that we make a better decision next time.
comment 36
Lalida date : 15/06/2008 time : 16.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Comment 35 is to the attention of C 33 Brplt.
comment 35
Lalida date : 15/06/2008 time : 16.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Your comment indicates that you’re not pointing fingers at facts which are in front of you but out of your own hatred and ignorance and I’ll explain it to you why I felt that way.
1)Thailand should be ranking number 1 among the countries less corrupted of the world?

Does this seem logical to you? Since by the link you’ve paste, we rank 84 what happen to the rest of the 83? Should and is are 2 different things, isn’t it? So, you believe the “Should” instead of “Is” then?

2)Thaksin and his cronies are doing everything they can to recuperate the loot.
Is it not a fact that even before “T” took up the office, he was already a rich man, what prove have you got to say that the money was “loot” and wouldn’t you do the same thing if your money was taken away for no solid prove that is stolen or out of corruption?

3)(Recently 2 million Baht in a candies box gifted to judges, by a lawyer who represent a politician …. The money was counted and photographed ……Full investigation is ongoing)

So, what’s your point of writing this one? Are you trying to tell me it’s “T” behind this? If so, may I ask is it not a bit too oblivious to do it such a way, a guy like “T” that could be elected twice democratically and the with brains he’s got be one of the richest man name by the Forbes, you think he will make such a bribe at such amount and so openly? Think about it if you’re not too busy understanding what logic means.

4)You can easily buy a vote with 200Baht-500Baht in the north-east of Thailand, because the peoples are not well educated

Oh, people are not well educated easily sells their vote. Who taught you that or which part of your brains tells you that? Have you read my earlier Blogs how e-san people live? By facts we are more self sufficient then the rural in the city, we don’t even need 1 bth to buy our food. What makes you think 200 or 500bth makes a big deal to us? So, I suppose you claimed yourself as the educated ones but I don’t see any indication of you that proves to me you’re speak of facts and logically or perhaps your educated background only allows you to hear and read without seeing facts to make assumption of people in general. If so, you have earned your credit if you have one.

5)Go to see and speak with them!

I don’t have to go see nor speak with them. I am one of them.

Let me teach you something which I felt even the educated will agree with me. When you judge anything from right to wrong and V.V. Judge the matter and not the individual you don’t like or like. Then the conclusion of the matter will be much fairer. Keep this advice in your brain and you’ll see things better and more logically.
comment 34
Ginola date : 15/06/2008 time : 11.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

brplt:

Yes, there is some vote buying. But, does vote-buying make the vote illegitimate? Are you absolutely certain that most poor people vote for Mr.T and PPP simply because of the money given to them?

My dealing with the villagers shows me that the people are actually voting more because of the policy and performance of Mr.T and PPP.

I think it's hard for two of us to reconcile since we disagree on the principle. I believe every vote, albeit one that is said to have been bought, is as fully legitimate as any other vote. This does not mean vote=buying should not be dealt with.

The PAD has every right to protest - yes indeed. But I still think it's not right at all to make extreme demand of removing the govt simply because it s "morally illegitimate" or interferes with checkand balance system. After all, your sense of morality is different from mine - that's why we have democracy where every voice counts, not just any single one's.
comment 33
brplt date : 15/06/2008 time : 11.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/brplt


According Real, there is no proof of corruption in Thailand! Following that, Thailand should be ranking number 1 among the countries less corrupted of the world?
But consulting The 2007 Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index
http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/2007-transparency-international-corruption-perceptions.html
Thailand is ranking number 84, among the most corrupted!!!!!
A lot of Thaksin’s money has been frozen, pending judgment of many corruption cases.
Thaksin and his cronies are doing every thing they can to recuperate the loot.
(Recently 2 million Baht in a candies box gifted to judges, by a lawyer who represent a politician …. The money was counted and photographed ……Full investigation is ongoing)
You can easily buy a vote with 200Baht-500Baht in the north-east of Thailand, because the peoples are not well educated, and they stomachs are speaking.
They follow only they village headman (feudal lord), who deal the money to them.
Go to see and speak with them!
It’s a lot of money for Thaksin? No problem, if there is a good “return on investment”
comment 32
Lalida date : 14/06/2008 time : 17.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

OH one more thing, you mentioned "Vote Buying", how many was proven guilty? the votes that came to elect this government was all bought? Someone in this governmet must be nuts to do such investment
comment 31
Lalida date : 14/06/2008 time : 17.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Brplt,

It seems to me that you're the one who hasn't waken up yet. Have you ever watch a film called "Amazing Grace" of how the guy fought for the Black people in the English parliament and it's a true story. If not, watch it first and you just might change your mind what one can do in a parliament if he/she is really fighting for the people. As far as "T" concern, at the moment is still accusation, not until one is proven in court that he/she is guilty as charged, he/she is still innocent. Please do read your own comment again and see if it's neutral or logical.
comment 30
Sulasno date : 14/06/2008 time : 13.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/sulasno

Ginola,

an article written by someone neutral who looks at the facts instead of being blinded and biased

Thumbs Up ^^^
comment 29
Piset date : 14/06/2008 time : 11.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Ian:

For a long time, after Nopadon become the minister of foreign affairs and can no longer act as Thaksin's defense counsel, I had been wondering about his replacement. Now, Thaksin may just call you up for that job.
comment 28
brplt date : 14/06/2008 time : 08.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/brplt


You forget that the “elected democratically” governments (pseudo-elected because of vote buying) TRT and PPP are intervened in the check and balance organizations of the country to protect and help Thaksin to do his corrupt business. Using the parliament is not possible because the opposition is in minority.
By these interventions in the check and balance of the country, the government became morally illegitimate, and the PAD has full right to protest.
No logical people can accept what Thaksin is doing in this country.
You have to bee sincere with yourself!
Wake up… please!

comment 27
Ian date : 13/06/2008 time : 16.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I would like to voice one thought, in any English court of law the case against Thaksin would be thrown out, for the simple reason that it has been debated too much in the public domain and thus the case has become prejudiced.
comment 26
Piset date : 13/06/2008 time : 15.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Ginola:

That's the spirit. All who are accused of wrong doing must be put through the same judiciarial process.

Other discussions are in anothe blog, as you know.
comment 25
GGrass date : 13/06/2008 time : 11.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

(In robotic voice) Danger... Danger, Thailand, get your act together...
comment 24
wch date : 13/06/2008 time : 08.57

Thank you The Author for your last response.
I agree on you mostly.
I will try to identify WHO real PAD is.
wch
comment 23
Poomjai date : 12/06/2008 time : 17.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/poomjai

Ginola,

I don't have time to read all the comments made so far. Just wanted to say that I couldn't agree with your more! Good blog.
comment 22
Ginola date : 12/06/2008 time : 16.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola
ginola

thanks all for your comments and sorry for my delayed response. I'm currently without internet access at home. I shall focus on responding to seven, Piset, and wch.

Seven:

Why can't the PAD rally take place somewhere else like Suan Lumpini? where it won't affect other people's life and rights so much? Why must it be at Makawan Bridge?

You say you want Mr T in court of law and I agree. But as a matter of fact, he is currently in court of law. So, I don't see how PAD's demand of bringing down Samak govt has anything to do with Mr.T's trial. Just let the legal process take place, my friend. The court is pretty much free from Mr.T right now (or even biased against Mr.T if anything).

Piset:

Narcisuss has kindly helped respond to your comment. At no point in my blog did I say that I wanted Mr.T to be let free. I want him to be tried in a court of law, but again, he is in a trial process and the PAD's demand of removing the Samak govt has little to do with this.

wch:

Please elaborate your criticisms of the text more specifically.

Definition of PAD? Representation of PAD? It's true that I sort of "generalize" the PAD people as being a common group of people. It's true that not everyone who joins the PAD has similar views on every issues or every demand made by the PAD leaders.

But I judge the PAD by its official demands and actual movement. The PAD leaders have escalated their demand to "resignation of Samak government" and has geared its movement toward achieving this demand. I disagree to this totally and I think I can make my case even without talking about the actual definition or representation of the PAD.

I would be happy if the PAD does all or some of the followings:
1) move its rally point to Suan Lumpini
2) stop demanding Samak govt's resignation
3) criticize the govt on potential wrongdoings and policy mismanagement based on objective reasoning and evidence; also encourage the opposition party to work harder in checking the govt
4) propose practical and useful solutions to the country's problems to the public and the govt.
comment 21
Lalida date : 12/06/2008 time : 16.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Earlsy,

Try this : @##%$%^^$^&^&%$$#$%^^$@#$W%#. Got it?
comment 20
earlsy date : 12/06/2008 time : 12.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/secondtimearound

(In a robotic voice) "Does not compute, does not compute".
comment 19
wch date : 12/06/2008 time : 09.01

Re the text.

Logic reconstruction requires identification of principal, the initial and inevitable process.
Say again, identifying 'without falsehood', who and what PAD is and what they demand, must be the first stage prior to further logic deployment and conclusion.

This text fails this. The evidence is,

1. failure to verify representation of PAD's.
(PAD do not represent only the mass of it, neither the opposite, nor solicit their support.
This is shown in later part of text, as an example of logical conflict of author's).

2. failure to identify the ideology of PAD's.
(PAD does not want political power to compete and manage the sovereignty.)

3. The author define his own "PAD" in his ego, that
is very much different from real PAD.
4. Some self-preached assumptions misguide the
author himself.
wch

PS. from all comments, few grains worthy to devote to this debate.
I want the author to contest to me seriously.
comment 18
narcisuss date : 11/06/2008 time : 23.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/narcisuss
I  come in peace :)

I don't think anyone here doesn't want to see Thaksin be put to a real trial (that means fair). I even have the sneaking suspicion that he could be guilty.

I can only speak for myself, but I can guarantee that I have no wish that anyone should get a get out of jail free card (including Thaksin, junta or whoever). I support those who protest in the name of due process. But I can not help but feel that by making uncompromising ultimatums of this calibre in the wake of all that Thailand has been through recently, PAD is hurting the cause of due process.
comment 17
narcisuss date : 11/06/2008 time : 23.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/narcisuss
I  come in peace :)

Ginola, I am very much in agreement with your writing.

Piset, c11, I don't see how you can draw that conclusion from Ginola's writing. Your comment gives me the impression that you are opposed to any moderation on the matter even in the face of well-founded reasons. It seems that you have distorted his reasoning to such a degree that it is unlikely that you have given them much objective thought.
Maybe your emotions are clouding your reasoning abilities a little? It happens to everyone.
comment 16
Lalida date : 11/06/2008 time : 18.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Rakbkk,

The problems is, people just couldn't accept the reality. The true fact is they're going against democracy they brag about, slapping their own face.

If PAD is as smart and as loyal to the country as those in here say they are, they should form a party and be the opposite and fight for what they think is right if they think there's people in this country supports them. Right now is nothing but a ganster MOB.
comment 15
rakbkk date : 11/06/2008 time : 18.25

and yes, all this corruption talk, is 100% b/s.. have you ever seen a poor politician once he has had power! and have you ever seen a politician whose relatives became poorer while their big brother was in power! it never happens, an honest politician doesnt exist.. nowhere in this world.
An american democrat once said ''vote for the guy, who puts more in your pocket than he takes out.'' And thats what we need to push for.
comment 14
rakbkk date : 11/06/2008 time : 18.20

Couldnt agree more with ginola and Ian. Bottomline is, in these harsh economic times, we need a government to function, not to be paralyse.
Yes, any wrongdoings need to be protested against, or accounted for, but at least let the Government get on its feet first! our PM good or bad, lets face it, he won an election, and the losers need to accept that, and give him space to function.
Whatever they do, it will only be better than non-functioning military government, whose only purpose is to strengthen their own.
As for this constitution, surely it needs to be amended, a military constitution is not meant for a democratic country. If PAD really are sincere enough, they would join the All party meet and get busy on getting things done, rather than stalling them. We need to move ahead, we just cannot afford to get stuck and definitely cannot go back.
comment 13
Ian date : 11/06/2008 time : 17.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Seven, courtesy of the internet, even though I am back in England I am still here in spirit. I would like to agree with Earlsy in the use of a word he used in an adjacent blog, I am a pragmatist. Essentially I am a firm believer in democracy but I honestly feel that Thailand is not yet ready for it.
Both Indonesia and the Philippines have had their dictators, both achieved an economic stability under these dictators, yet eventually this very stability and prosperity paved the way for the people to rise up an overthrow them. Sure corruption is still a factor but they are now closer to democracy than ever before. China seems to be following the same path, Cuba is another example.
So pragmatically I say bring Thaksin type rule back, restore stability even if it is not democratic. I believe that once stability returns then democracy will have a chance. I might be wrong, but I do not see a democratic future for Thailand at the moment with all the political infighting going on.
Basically when much of a population is struggling to survive on a daily basis, democracy is a luxury they do not have time to think about.
comment 12
Piset date : 11/06/2008 time : 17.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Alternatively, let Thaksin face the Senate Investigation which would be televised nationwide in the same way as Richard M. Nixon faced. Then, you can have all of your other solutions.
comment 11
Piset date : 11/06/2008 time : 17.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Having read your blog, I have found that you have taken a long way to say one short message:

"Let the robbery of the nation go on. Everybody should shut up and say nothing unless you can say some good thing to support the thieves and their gang."

I have one suggestion.

Let Thaksin face the court and let the court that is free from all interference make its judgement. Then, after that, you can have all of your suggestions and more.
comment 10
Lalida date : 11/06/2008 time : 16.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Sorry, should be Bravo..
comment 9
Lalida date : 11/06/2008 time : 15.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Well written Ginola, you spoke everything in my mind. Braco
comment 8
GGrass date : 11/06/2008 time : 14.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

A knight in shining armour!
comment 7
earlsy date : 11/06/2008 time : 14.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/secondtimearound

David. I would like to echo Felix. Excellent article.

What the country needs now, in my opinion, is a party or movement that captures the public imagination. It should have a manifesto to inspire people to create lasting change. It should empower people. It should earn it's support by putting forward policies that people can believe in and definitely not be led by the prodigal son of a former politician...
comment 6
Seven date : 11/06/2008 time : 14.33
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/truethai
Sao Grabrong Hian

There you are Ian, good, I was worried you had gone back to the UK. Good to see you even we are not fighting on the same side. Signing off for today.
comment 5
Ian date : 11/06/2008 time : 14.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Seven, you are still wasting your personal energy on Thaksin, that does no harm. But if Thailand does the same it will do harm. Thaksin is a battle that can wait, first sort the present chaos out, I agree with Ginola.
comment 4
FelixQui date : 11/06/2008 time : 14.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Seven is right.
The future of a whole nation is at stake, and that is why it is necessary to insist on adhering to principles of democracy, law and rights for a change instead of once more persuing what is merely a convenient, populist or easy means to an end.
Thailand has a long history of taking the easy way out (or of vested interests taking using that excuse) A good example is the last coup, and such options are not a recipe for a successful nation, as the results of that anti-democratic armed violation of yet another Thai constitution show today.
comment 3
Seven date : 11/06/2008 time : 14.07
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/truethai
Sao Grabrong Hian

Students, pregnant women?????? The future of a whole nation is at stake and you talk about students and pregnant women?

That sir, shows whos side you are on. Is that the best you can do?
comment 2
FelixQui date : 11/06/2008 time : 14.05
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Ginola,
Your analysis of the situation and your constructive suggestions are both excellent and well presented.
I agree with everything.
comment 1
Seven date : 11/06/2008 time : 13.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/truethai
Sao Grabrong Hian

Solution: Convict Mr T in a court of law and get him behind bars. The different faction leaders will start to fight among themselves and the TRT will fall apart.
If Mr T is not there to hand out pocket money to the faction leaders the TRT will be history.

Problem: Mr T! Solution: Get rid of the problem!

No need to theorize too much.
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