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Meandering pathways
Friday , June 12 , 2009
THE FINAL CENTURY OF CIVILISATION?
Posted by panya , Reader : 1798 , 20:09:05  
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A friend recently lent me an ABC programme,  EARTH2100,  which was broadcast this month and has been causing quite a lot of discussion, it seems.


It is a speculative Worst Case Scenario of what this planet may be like at the end of this century.


The programme follows the fictional life of Lucy, born in 2009, as the years go by, examining what is happening and why.  It all seems quite excessive and implausible, until you consider the growing population, the dwindling natural resources, and of course, the inevitable climate change.


Controversy seems to be raging between those who believe that our mistreatment of the environment is leading us rapidly to the point of no return which will see the destruction of the environment as we know it, and thos who believe the whole contentious theory of climate change is a hoax and a conspiracy.


Some of the points it brought up were well worth considering:


- Erratic weather patterns, changing migration routes and times, and different blooming cycles for plants are all indicative that there is a real problem.


- Food prices will rise as populations increase, and the distribution costs likewise as oil prices must rise as reserves dwindle.


- India and China will account for 30% of global carbon emissions by 2015.


- By 2030, more than 60% of the global population will be affected by water shortages, which will aggravate the already inflated price of food.


- Society's dependence on electricity for industry and especially communication will put further pressure on fuel costs and availability.


- By 2040, when the global population is 9 billion, refugees will start moving en masse to countries which have food and water, and by 2050 it is thought that over 30% of species on the planet will be facing extinction.


- Then of course there is the rising of sea levels, and much more...........



I was disappointed that it did not consider the international effects between the countries that have, and do not have, the scarce resources and the technology to overcome their shortages, as I feel hostilities and confrontation will escalate.  Still, it was an interesting and thought-provoking 90 minutes.  I don't know if it has been shown over here (as I only watch soap operas, of course!)

Read comment

comment 69
Ian date : 24/06/2009 time : 00.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Panya, I fear you are right for most people, although in my personal circle it is not so. I am a firm believer in the Gaian concept and global consciousness, in fact if anyone presses me for my religion I say Gaian.
comment 68
panya date : 23/06/2009 time : 21.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

I think the mindset of 'Apres moi le deluge' is more widespread than you suggest, Ian. I think it applies to most people who are hellbent on achieving their aspirations of comfort, wealth and social position. Nobody is really encouraged or taught to be considerate or to think of other people, particularly ahead of themselves. The id is of primary importance and concern. And I think that applies with offspring too. It's their future, it's their life, it'll be their problem, for the moment what is important is me, and what I have and who I am now.

As Alien so rightly observes, nobody really gives a shit. Decisions are made in order to keep the important factions happy, to maximise the return to those who think they matter more. Oops, we're getting back into Thai politics again

Of course, education is partly to blame, but government and corporate managers generally speaking have better education than those who experience the result of their decision making. And they will continue to ignore their education because they are going to get the most benefits from whatever they decide, and as long as they're all right and happy (as Alien said), screw everyone else. They will always be able to obtain what they need, it's everyone else who will suffer. Nowhere was this more evident than that creature Dubya.

Maverick263 provided the link for an organisation of global consciousness. It's about the only non-violent non-financial way the masses will ever be able to exert any influence on the decision makers.
comment 67
Ian date : 23/06/2009 time : 16.56
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the phrase andf meaning of "Apres moi la deluge", but if you are this is how I see the mind set of most politicians and corporate managers.
Yet they are not simply being selfish, they really do not understand. I assume that most have children and even grandchildren, can they be so blindly selfish as not to care for their future?
I think education, particularly science education, must carry a lot of the blame, it has failed to give them the knowledge to understand.
comment 66
Alien date : 23/06/2009 time : 12.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

As far as having enough food to feed people, the U. S. under Bush and a Democratic Congress passed a law mandating the increased use of ethanol, ehich, in the U. S. at least, mainly uses corn. Now corn is alot more expensive, also used for feeding cattle has driven up the price of meat and from what I've read, cars get less mileage with the combo, meaning they have to fill up more often. I guess as long as Bush, the Democrats, the farmers and the ethanol producers are happy - screw everyone else. It really seems no one gives a shit anymore. I don't mean that about global warming, just about everything in particular.
comment 65
maverick263 date : 22/06/2009 time : 22.18

thx panya :-)

i enjoy this thread. so many bright minds... netnapit, gg, felix, ian... & my dear friends expresso & wch...

so just for the fun of it...

here's institute of noetic sciences

http://www.noetic.org/

& here's global consciousness project @ princeton

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/


wish u well na :-)
comment 64
panya date : 22/06/2009 time : 14.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Ian C59/7

Of course politics will jump on any bandwagon to increase their power, and the giant corporations even more so, as I alluded to below ref the electric car. And the media can be brought in to support any such decisions with messages containing appropriate content and omitting where necessary.

But I don't think it is too late. Agreed, we cannot reverse the damage we have done, but we can minimise future damage and maximise the chance of adjusting or adapting to the new environment we will see. But this requires individual commitment, which grows increasingly difficult in the face of mass abuse. There are few governments who have the strength of mind to pursue the options they should. The sudden extreme weather patterns which are reputed to become more frequent may prove to our advantage in this respect.

As for the effect of a 20 Mton hydrogen bomb on Toba, it looks as if our powers of adaptation might soon to be tested, albeit by the North Koreans.
comment 63
panya date : 22/06/2009 time : 14.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Alien C56/58

Whilst there is much that you write with which I agree, overall I still cannot accept that the environmental deterioration which is so evident can be written off as being alarmist, and a hoax perpetrated by the elite class in pursuit of mass control. I wonder if that isn't an argument to support the business world's continued exploitation of whatever is available, as a justification and a reassurance that the alarm signals can be ignored. When you reconsider the plight of the electric car launched in the mid-90s by General Motors, shelved in favour of the 'bright new alternative', the hydrogen (fuel cell) car, even though the electric car was already on the roads, it reminds you that the government and business elite are far more interested in continuing to reap huge benefits right now, at whatever and whoever's expense, than to strike out on a new less profitable path which would be greener. Of course, the revolting Bush gave hydrogen his blessing, but then as part of the oil industry, how could he have allowed the electric car to proceed? There it was on the roads, shelved for a better choice which is still to appear 15 years later.

You also mention that there were times where it was too hot/too dry/too wet, and that we pulled through. This is true, of course, but in those times there were far less people around to feed, and greater resources to use to get by. The world is getting somewhat crowded, and even though we continue to produce enough food to feed every person alive, there are over 1 billion people without enough to eat, and hotels in every city offering buffet lunches to increasingly less clientelle. Volatile weather conditions nowadays must put a much greater stress on our ability to get by if such a period of drought/heat/flood were to strike.

"People adjust". When they can. But in any book there will come a time when such adjustment or adaptation cannot be realised. That is when the trouble really starts, and the longer people get used to having what they want, the worse the trouble will be when they can't.
comment 62
Ian date : 19/06/2009 time : 05.01
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

61. sorry I meant dropped on Toba.
comment 61
Ian date : 19/06/2009 time : 00.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

HJ, 60. A 20Mton Hydrogen bomb would wipe out all Asian culture. The same in Yellowstone would do the same for America. Russia and Europe would survive both, but it would be a hard life.
comment 60
happyjack date : 18/06/2009 time : 19.02

c55.Thanks ,clear reply, so it gives credence to My Nature is the Master.Science has a tough opponent does it not.Alien, you worry to much, interesting though.Prophecy's come True, never seen one, have you.?.
comment 59
Ian date : 18/06/2009 time : 05.41
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Alien, I agree that politics will jump on any bandwaggon that increases their power. But who but governments have the power to control deforestation, river and ocean pollution, atmospheric pollution by smoke and exhaust fumes.
One man can no longer protect his backyard, the effects are global so we have to act globally.
All we can do individually is to get together and act collectively and force our politicians to make the right move.
I actually belong to the school of thought that it is too late, we cannot reverse the damage we have done, climate change is a runaway train with no brakes.
What we envisage is at some time in the future a new equilibrium will be established, it won't mean the end of humanity, but it will be a very different environment from that which we know now. Many scientists are now working on projects to help us survive in this new environment.
Incidentally as the atmosphere and oceans warm they in effect gain more energy and this created instability, just as the simple convection currents in a heated pan break down and become chaotic as the water gets hotter.
So expect more freak weather, droughts, snow, rain, storms,floods,tornados and hurricanes, out of season and out of place, all the result of global warming.
Check your roof and storm shutters, keep a supply of food and water in your home. Buy a generator and some bottled cooking gas. you can never now when the next freak storm will hit.
comment 58
Alien date : 18/06/2009 time : 01.54
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Hello Ian,

No disrespect taken. I do not have a scientific background but am well-read. My background is in business.
Firstly, I typed the first capital statement in error. It should have said that those who screamed that the earth was in danger of global COOLING in the 60's are the same screaming global warming now.
Do i think that we MAY be entering a period of global warming? I definitely think it is a possibility. The big turn off for me is that the global warming alarmists do not brook any discussion or dissention. Going by their methods, BIG BROTHER is already here. Another issue I have is that all solutions call for greater government regulation (read: control) of economics, people's personal lives, etc. Governments are the last and the worst place for people to put their trust.
Accepting global warming as a given, even considering that the U. S. northeast has had some of the coldest years, longer winters and more snow than usual, the powers that be will not allow any investigation into what may be attributable to man and what may be attributable to some type of cycle. This is because it is to their interest to blame it on man and insist on more government, more government regulation and intrusion into people's lives and ultimately, more government power. Once the government gets this power, brush up on 1984 as it will NEVER give it up voluntarily.
The above arguments do not even touch on Putim famously saying that global warming would be good for Russia as they would have more agricultural land. The above doesn't even deal with the hypocrisy of Al Gore and his global warming co-religionists jetting here and there in their private jets to preach to US how WE must cut back while his house in Tennessee uses the equivilant of 30 homes worth of power each month. Oh, I forgot, he "bought" carbon credits. The rich get richer! I could imagine that a Rockefeller or Trump has their finger on carbon credits also. How many do you or other readers have stashed aside.
I also have a daughter and I dread the heavy hand of some sovereign power that will will come down on her and her children's lives. I do believe that there are the "One World Government" proponents that love the prospect of global warming regulation becoming universal law. I guess you will also need global warming police and judges and beaurocrats to keep everyone in line. I am not usually in rabid fear of the One World government like some of the conspiracy nuts, but I can definitley see how it would happen and global warming is one of the vehicles it would arrive in.
In summation, there haave been periods in the earth's history where no crops could have survived in the northern U. S. and Canada, Germany, Scandnavia, Tibet, etc. It was too cold. There wee times where it was too hot to plant alot of the foods we enjoy in parts of the world. There were times when it was too dry, too wet in parts of the world. The world changes. People adjust. It has always been like this and will always be like this. I just don't want the adjustment to have to be to some elite-Nazi strata of society where most people will be little better off than the trafficked people of today.
comment 57
Ian date : 18/06/2009 time : 00.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Alien, 56. Thank you for that comment, this is exactly why we are doing too little too late. There are just too many people in the world that think like you.

i don't blame you for this, it takes a fairly thorough scientific background to understand all the evidence, indeed for years many scientists were unconvinced. However, the evidence is now so conclusive that the only people who deny it are those working for vested interests.
"Apres moi le deluge" is their attitude.

Our planet has been in a bi-stable state for millions of years, it flips from Glacial to inter-glacial fairly regularly. The machanisms involved are now well understood. Think of it as a spring vibrating, if you know any physics or engineering (this is not intended as a put down, I just do not know your background), you will know that the period of oscillation depends on the mass of the spring, the tension, and the elasticity. Change any of these factors and the spring will move to a new vibration mode.
This is what humanity is doing. It is not just the greenhouse gases, we are turning forests into concrete, we are polluting the oceans, both alter the planet's albedo. We are polluting the atmosphere with particulates (smog)this also affects albedo. I could go on and on.

scientists no longer deny that humans are having a permanent affect, what they still argue about is how severe this affect will be and if we can reverse any such affects.

If all I had to think about was me then I would shut up, but I have children and I also have an affection for the human race. so when I can I say my bit.
comment 56
Alien date : 17/06/2009 time : 23.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

I respectfully disagree with the "global waming alarmists" who are predicting the ruination of the planet due to man. The planet has experienced warming and cooling trends all throughout its' history. There was a "mini-ice age" in the period of approx. 1600 -1800. If Al Gore and the New York Times were around then, man would have been blamed for it, of course. I read that in the 1960's, it was fashionable to predict global cooling. MANY OF THE SAME PEOPLE WHO PREDICTED GLOBAL WARMING THEN ARE PRIDICTING GLOBAL WARMING NOW! The 60's also saw alot of predictions of us running out of food before now, water before now, a population so large that would in itself kill off the earth by now, etc, etc. How do these people manage to lurch from prediction to prediction without being discredited? If you want to talk about PC thought control - there is virtually no dissent allowed in the scientific/political/media world (and believe me, they are intricately intertwined) against the global warming alarmists. Those who do not adhere to the warming theory and even those who say more information is needed are villified by the press, denounced by the politicians and ostrasized by the scientists that are marching in lock-step with this new religion. If you want to find examples of the novel "1984" in our present times, look at the global warming movement. The global warming situation is being used by this ideological class of elite, with the subserviance of numerous "useful idiots" in advancing the control of people's lives by the elite class. Some claim it is the "One world - one government" movement that is behind this but I would wait before I came to a conclusion such as this. In any event, does anyone think that their main weapon, "carbon credits" would actually make one bit of difference on gases released into the atmosphere? It is merely the exchange of currency from one corporation to another along with the change of who puts the gases into the atmosphere from one corp. to another. The global warming panic is simply a vehicle to extend further goverment regulation (i.e. control) over everyone's lives. Thoughtful consideration of what has passed and what has been proposed will lead to no other conclusion. There is no way government stays the same or gets smaller with any of the proposed solutions that have been advanced to date. Again. look at the treatment of the scientists, politicians, civilians who state that global warning, if any, needs more study or is not due to man or is not a problem. Al Gore, along with many others, have already declared that "THE DEBATE IS OVER." Now doesn't that just give you a thrill on the future as far as individual rights are concerned?
comment 55
Ian date : 17/06/2009 time : 18.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Hj, 54. i am trying to think of a non technical analogy to explain, think of a tree in the wind, it sways from side to side, the Earh's climate does the same but slower, first hot then cold. What happens if the wind become too strong,the tree falls over. This is what human activities are doing to climate swings. We have added an extra factor to the current natural global warming.
comment 54
happyjack date : 17/06/2009 time : 15.28

C44.So, if that be so, a layman like myself could ask the Question,So without Green House Gasses and Nasty Busses,Global Warming is only a Fashion Statement for Greenies,It will happen anyway..?.Just a bit faster.?.
comment 53
Ian date : 17/06/2009 time : 15.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Panya, If you mean, "The Hiram Key: Pharaohs, Freemasonry, and the Discovery of the Secret Scrolls of Jesus (ISBN 0-099-69941-9) a book by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas.

Then the answer is no.

However there are many similar books I have
"The Sign and the Seal" by Graham Hancocks
"Bloodline of the Holy Grail" by Laurence Gardner
"The Jesus Debate" by Mark Allan Powell

there is also a connection to Thoth and his priests which you can explore.
comment 52
panya date : 17/06/2009 time : 09.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Ian

With reference to speculative hypothetical writing of unbased theories, you haven't by chance read The Hiram Key have you?

If so, do you think there is any validity (or real fact) behind their suggestions at the origins of the Freemasons or the Masonic Testament (which I rather liked, I confess)?

Bit of a digression, but why not.
comment 51
panya date : 17/06/2009 time : 09.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C46 expresso

I had friends who were in Khao Lak at the time of the tsunami, so I spent many hours trying to find out about earthquakes, tsunamis and their causes. This professor's paper was amongst what I read, but I remember being surprised at how sure he was that there would be a shift in that region which would result in such damage, as well as the likelihood of several smaller movements later. The paper had been written a couple of years previously, I think, but being on the other side of the Pacific had not helped his research in being noticed.

The link, or the saved document, maybe be in my archives somewhere or even on an old computer. I am not terribly organised at saving all I read, but I will do my best to search it out again. I'm sorry but I cannot even remember which university he was from as there are many over there.
comment 50
panya date : 17/06/2009 time : 09.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C43 Ian

Thank you for the pointers - looks like some good reading there!

I had the chance of a month's holiday at Lake Toba back when I lived in Singapore, which I stupidly didn't undertake due to funding problems, and I have been kicking myself ever since as it looks quite bewitching.
comment 49
Ian date : 17/06/2009 time : 04.46
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Expresso, 46. At the risk of further attacks on my intellectual abilities, plus the introduction of a certain lady into the conversation I will answer your comments.

The plates move for a number of reasons, convection currents is one of them, isostatic balance is another.
Here is a link to some simple pictures
http://www.see.leeds.ac.uk/structure/dynamicearth/subduction/
Another factor is the Earth's spin, unbalanced masses on a spinning ball tend to move to where they balance each other out, a flywheel effect.

Regarding Mercury it is so near to the sun it has become gravitationally locked, the same applied to the moon it is locked to the Earth and always shows the same face.

To understand why this happens you have to know that the moon pulls the oceans around the Earth, the tides. This takes energy supplied by the moon and the moon slows down. Earth's gravity acted a brake on the moon's rotation by creating tides in the moon's rocks.
http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Tidal_lock
comment 48
Ian date : 17/06/2009 time : 04.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Expresso, 46. At the risk of further attacks on my intellectual abilities, plus the introduction of a certain lady into the conversation I will answer your comments.

The plates move for a number of reasons, convection currents is one of them, isostatic balance is another.
Here is a link to some simple pictures
http://www.see.leeds.ac.uk/structure/dynamicearth/subduction/
Another factor is the Earth's spin, unbalanced masses on a spinning ball tend to move to where they balance each other out, a flywheel effect.

Regarding Mercury it is so near to the sun it has become gravitationally locked, the same applied to the moon it is locked to the Earth and always shows the same face.

To understand why this happens you have to know that the moon pulls the oceans around the Earth, the tide. This takes energy supplied by the moon and the moon slows down, eventually it stops. Earth tides acted a brake on the moon's rotation.
http://www.lunarpedia.org/index.php?title=Tidal_lock
comment 47
expresso date : 16/06/2009 time : 23.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

How about Mercury, Ian? Is it due to its orbital?

On side of Mercury is ~400 C and the other side is ~minus 200 C....It's almost like my wife
comment 46
expresso date : 16/06/2009 time : 23.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Panya, about the professor's prediction of the tsunami, I would appreciate if you would give me a link.

I suspect that his prediction is from data observing rather than based on any model of prediction - either empirical or analytical.

As far as I know we are still not clear what forces cause the movements of the tectonic plates. Some scientists say they are due to the convection currents under the plates, but some other scientists say such convection currents do not generate enough forces to cause such movements.

If the end of civilization means the destruction of earth, I would guess it will be from a sizable asteroid or asteroids that venture out from where they are now, in the free belt zone between Mars and Jupiter.
comment 45
Ian date : 16/06/2009 time : 22.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Hj, 44. A combination of wandering continents and Milankovitch cycles.
http://www.homepage.montana.edu/~geol445/hyperglac/time1/milankov.htm
Put simply, there are times like now when the Earth is in an almost circular orbit around the sun, there are other times when it moves into an elliptical orbit and spends much of the time further from the sun.
comment 44
happyjack date : 16/06/2009 time : 21.26

I have often wondered what started the Ages,when there were no Airplanes to Blame,and not a tree was cut.What Caused Global Freezing, i dont know.
comment 43
Ian date : 16/06/2009 time : 17.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Panya, 42. Recent findings on the Toba incident are new and I don't know of anyone yet who has written a book on this topic. Most is in the form of articles in scientific journals.

Wiki gives a very brief summary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory

There are a few books, none of which I have read
"Volcanic hazards and disasters in human antiquity"
By Floyd W. McCoy, Grant Heiken

Volcanic winter in the Garden of Eden: The Toba ... - by M Rampino.

another lengthy article
http://creation-art.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_archive.html

Actually your problem finding information on Taba illustrates my point with Felix, unless you are academically active in the fields of archaeology, geophysics, genetics, linguistics, parasitology etc and just rely on popular books, you will always be behind the times.
A few years ago I wrote a book on the aquatic evolution theory, I eventually gave up as new finding were arriving faster than I could incorporate them.
books are frozen snapshots of human knowledge.
comment 42
panya date : 16/06/2009 time : 09.28
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C32 Ian

I can't find out anything much on the Toba Incident, and my curiosity is peaked. Can you point me at worthwhile location to read further?
comment 41
panya date : 16/06/2009 time : 09.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C34/35/36 Felixqui

I'm glad you commented, as I think you have a valid point about exploitative commercialisation of wispish theory, though I disagree that "Gods, ghosts, extra-terrestrial visitors, super-spiritual pre-Egyptian civilisations and the like all deserve to be rubbished". Unless there is solid evidence that shows these ideas to be untrue, why rubbish them? Better leave them to exist as 'maybes' that people may consider if they so wish. Personally, after reading the world news on any given day, pondering the possibility of superior intelligence gives me some hope for the abomination of humanity.

As for Hancock, well, I knew (and still know) little of him or his theories, and if his book is mainly fiction, I agree it is wrong for it to be presented as anything else, but even if it only contains little bits of fact, so be it, I enjoyed what I read as I would a good novel.

But if, for example, the Nazca lines are so easy to rubbish for want of solid evidence, why are they so difficult to explain in origin and purpose?

The ear-lobes theory I like, and I shall alert you accordingly to any copyright infringement I come across. And it leads me to speculate on why people leave garlic out as a protection, rather than apples.
comment 40
Ian date : 15/06/2009 time : 23.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Felix, 39. I recommended it as in introduction to the topic for a newcomer, just as I would recommend some books as a primer for physics. Hancocks is a journalist and as such has the ability to communicate with lay people. Other books such as Hamlets Mill require some knowledge of astronomy and mathematics, the same may be said for Bauval.
Dawkins in the "God delusion", I found both arrogantly smug and ill informed.

Now you ask for some bits of solid evidence, I am not sure what you are asking, but try this.

"One of the first great civilizations--with a writing system, urban centers, and a diversified social and economic system--appeared around 3,000 B.C. "

[http://www.indianchild.com/harappa.htm]

"When the Harappan civilization declined, some features of the culture did not continue to its successors. Writing vanished, for almost 1400 years. So did city planning. So did the specific forms of the the Harappan religion and literature (unless, contrary to the usual wisdom, these do turn out to be Vedic). The warlessness of the Harappans, if real, vanished as well. Incredible though it seems, the language(s) of this widespread and numerous people also seem to have vanished with little trace."

NOTE: this culture was unknown and unremember until recently.

The early dynastic period in Egypt (Menes etc), also began 3000BC. Another sudden transition from a hunter/gatherer lifestyle.

We see the same sudden emergence of a civilised culture in China, around the same time or earlier.

There are more, the main thing is all these culture sprang into existence at roughly the same time.

Now read this:

http://news.scotsman.com/scitech/Last-Ice-Age-happened-in.4351045.jp

Less than 13,000 years ago, or 11,000BC

So the Ice Age was sudden and cataclysmic, it lasted several thousand years and when it ended, survivors of the pre Ice Age period took several millenia to struggle back into existence.
This is my take on the available evidence I have presented. I have much more but if the above is not enough to get you thinking then I am not prepared to waste more time.

I am actually very busy at the moment, which is why I cannot reply to wch, I can't understand what he is talking about other than that he wants to agree with Kant, he is welcome to comment in a Kant blog He has been warned though
comment 39
FelixQui date : 15/06/2009 time : 20.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Ian,
YOu wrote: "Your [Felix's] arguments are full of red herrings, ufos, ghosts etc, simply because you have just one book to base your judgments upon. " (c. 37)
THis is not true, and I chose that particular book for two reasons:
1. I had read it.
2. You had yourself warmly recommended it in c.27. If you are now conceding that it isn't up to par on the intellectual honesty score, why did you recommend it without reservation in teh first place? It would have been unreasonable had I directly attacked a book I had not read.

Yes, I did like Dawkins' "God Delusion", although I don't agree with everything in it. He at least abstains from a reckless disregard for the truth, and my disagreements are with some of what are clearly his opinions and nothing more. His tone is a little strident for some tastes, but I thought that was also appropriate.

Rather than referring us to more book, can you point the sceptics such as myself to one or two bits of solid evidence? I don't mind if it's in books, but what is the actual evidence?
comment 38
wch date : 15/06/2009 time : 19.47

Ian and Panya,
I predicted the likely responces both of you made, so I put a barrier in advance as,
"wild scientific assumptions without knowing this universe and solar system stopped their dynamic balancing process and settled down at the most stable condition"

This simple sentence is to bay off the academic arrogance in advance, like,
"it would require them to have a background knowledge of cosmology, geophysics, electromagnetism, archaeology and many related topic which they do not have."

This phrase itself misses more important knowledges to explain whole universe.
I may understand why Kant so angry but now foregive,,. 555
comment 37
Ian date : 15/06/2009 time : 19.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Felix,30. Hancock's "Fingerprints of the Gods", was his first book written at a time when little serious work had been done, it was inevitably speculative. If you read that and that alone I can understand your attitude.
However, since then much has entered the field of orthodox science, his later books move with the times. To compare him with von Daniken actually reveals how little you know of recent research in this field.
"Hamlet's Mill" is an important book
http://alignment2012.com/mill1.htm

Zecharia Sitchin is an interesting character who has taken over from Van Danniken, if you seek a windmill to tilt at

I approach information as a scientist, and a sceptical one to boot. For instance I agree with much that Richard Dawkins writes, I have met him and like him, but his book the "God delusion" made it very clear to me that he had wandered outside his sphere of knowledge. I remember you thought it was an excellent book

Your arguments are full of red herrings, ufos, ghosts etc, simply because you have just one book to base your judgments upon.

here is an example of true criticism by someone who has actually read some books:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/piri/index.htm
comment 36
FelixQui date : 15/06/2009 time : 18.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

But I'm asserting my intellectual property rights to claim a share in any profits that accrue by selling books on the use of their ear-lobes by ghosts to gobble apples and other nourishing fruits.
comment 35
FelixQui date : 15/06/2009 time : 18.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Panya,
You are perfectly right that there is nothing wrong with speculation. It's important and also fun. The trouble arises when dishonest people like Hancock present as verified or true statements, what is nothing more than extremely far-fetched speculation.
I was very careful to make clear, as repeated in my last comment to Ian, that my comments about the other authors he mentioned were speculation. I would be surprised on reading their works to discover that I was wrong, but that is a possibility. Not having read them, I was appropriately reserved in my comments.

Don't worry about the ghosts ear-lobes. They were an speculation I made up on the fly that is as well founded on solid evidence as Hancock's rubbish and much else that sells well, that often sells very well, to the great financial benefit of the imaginative authors.
comment 34
FelixQui date : 15/06/2009 time : 18.09
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Ian,
"and people like Felix rubbish anything they don't understand" That's not true. I only rubbish what I understand well enough to be sure deserves to be so rubbished. Gods, ghosts, extra-terrestrial visitors, super-spiritual pre-Egyptian civilisations and the like all deserve to be rubbished. However, that could change: as soon as solid evidence becomes available, they should all be taken seriously. In the meantime, the possibility should also be taken seriously enough to do research to uncover relevant evidence. SETI and the like are not rubbish, nor should those who wish to do so be barred from pursuing things like cold fusion. The evidence to date is not favourable, and it seems to have been ruled out by the reliable studies, but perhaps they were all flawed and Pons et al were right after all. That would certainly be good news for our continued existence on this planet. But I think we would be very ill advised to count on that particular technological fix coming to our rescue.

On a friends recommendation, I made an effort to read Hancock's "Fingerprints of the Gods" a few years ago. It is full of little bits of fact, on which he builds "it might therefore be the case that" and "we don't know that it isn't" and so on, but as it goes on, the initial hedging disappears, to be be replaced by the next level of hedgeing for even more far-fetched claims. THis is dishonest to the point of telling lies.

I refrained from any such direct comment on the other books you mentioned because I have not read them.

I am perfectly open to evidence, and when pointed to it will check it out.

There is nothing wrong with doing a quick Google to learn about something about which we were previously ignorant.
comment 33
panya date : 15/06/2009 time : 18.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C29 wch

Surely there can be plate movement for other reasons than just the earth cooling? Geological analysis can detect faults and weaknesses which can result in change, and inaccurately enough to make such change sudden. The plate movements which caused the tsunami here a few years ago was accurately predicted by a geology professor well in advance (I've read his paper), as were the subsequent movements in the same strata.

Would fore-rear penises be a solution to female dominance?

C30 felixqui

Surely speculation and hypotheses can be formulated without solid evidence? In fact, it is the absence of solid evidence which provokes speculative theory, which may result in the retrieval of evidence to substantiate. You yourself speculate without any solid evidence on the books Ian mentioned, 'that Bauval's and Gilbert's efforts are of exactly equal merit'.

Having said that, ghosts and their ear-lobes eh? I've never heard that before. Having never seen one clearly, I never knew they even had them.
comment 32
Ian date : 15/06/2009 time : 16.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

One reason I am reluctant to comment on 'hard science' topics is that wch is an 'expert'
and people like Felix rubbish anything they don't understand.
I cannot even be bothered to debate with such, it would require them to have a background knowledge of cosmology, geophysics, electromagnetism, archaeology and many related topic which they do not have.
If I were to challenge them on a particular term, say magnetic hysteresis, rather than admit ignorance they would do a quick "Google" and become experts
No doubt they would do the same when I mention the "Toba Incident" as events relating to this have only recently entered the scientific debate.
comment 31
FelixQui date : 15/06/2009 time : 12.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Nostradamus is as accurate as my dog, which isn't bad, all things considered.
If you like, a modest fee will give you my dog's predictions. Naturally, I will need to interpret for you, but that's free. You only have pay for the original barking. My dog can predict anything, and if it's already past, her predictions are astonishingly spot on. Naturally, we reserve the right to revise any interpretation of the future in the light of future events.

Yours cheerfully,
Felix and Miki

(And as Miki is now getting on, almost ten years old, her barkings carry the venerable weight of years as well as ineffable opacity.)
comment 30
FelixQui date : 15/06/2009 time : 11.58
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Graham Hanconck's works are on a par with von Daniken's: such a reckless disregard for truth and scholarship that they can properly be labelled lying fantasies with a clear and strong profit motive behind them.
I haven't looked, but suspect that Bauval's and Gilbert's efforts are of exactly equal merit.

There may have been a pre-ice age civilisation of great sophistication, but there is no evidence (I mean exactly ZERO) to support such a belief, and the total absence of any such expected evidence counts strongly against it. Until some solid evidence comes to light, it remains as irrational to believe that there was such a civilisation as that we are regularly visited by super intelligent aliens, that Santa Clause lives at the North Pole and that ghosts always eat apples with their ear lobes.

The unfounded writings of ancient peoples, however brilliant, are nonetheless unfounded and of no value whatsoever (I mean ZERO value) in making predictions about our immediate future or that of our planet.
comment 29
wch date : 15/06/2009 time : 10.05

Only GG offered the most valid possibility.
Ian and others display hears and says of wild scientific assumptions without knowing this universe and solar system stopped their dynamic balancing process and settled down at the most stable condition.
The earth started the cycle of 'heated to water, freeze back to ice' in the natural balancing process.
Frequent misunderstood is sun. Sun is understood of very unstable gas mass and anytime cause a great change but it is Sun that showed no evidence of abrupt changes in last million and billion years.

Earth magnetic field is changing. As all know, the megnetic pole is changing always but within very small radius. There is no evidence for earth to cool down. So the earth plates can not be predicted of sudden change.

Certainly the earth and the solar system will change but slow enough to brew evolution.
Human being just lived very very tiny piece of time out of huge universal 'Time-Mass'.
Man-being may be someday 12 legs and fore-rear penises (correct?) to adjust the envioronment of female dominance. It will however be in next a billion years. At that time a female will be,

"God always create a woman so inferior !"

and still many conmen will earn their livings by the old says of shamanism. I can say 2099 will bring something strange because the figure 2099 is strangely looked.

(Adult only site).
comment 28
panya date : 15/06/2009 time : 05.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C27

I read half of 'Fingerprints' years ago, then lent the book to a friend and never got it back, but I don't know the others. Thanks for the recommendations, Ian.
comment 27
Ian date : 15/06/2009 time : 02.14
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Panya, Alien, If you are seriously interested then you need to start with Graham Hancock "Fingerprints of the Gods", plus any of his more recent books, then "The Orion Mystery" by Robert Bauval And Adrian Gilbert, or "The Supergods" by Maurice Cotterell. Many more but these will get you started
Most of these have dedicated Websites. You can also look up Enlil and Enki.
To me the evidence for a pre Ice Age civilisation is enough to convince me.
comment 26
Alien date : 15/06/2009 time : 00.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

I don't know exactly which Nostradamus' quartrains they read to come out to 2012. I do know that when they talk about the end, they seem to be leaning to a large comet or meteor hitting the earth. The History Channel now has a series on called "A World Without People" and they show how different cities would look 1, 2 5, 10 50 years from now. It's interesting how the world would turn back to nature, although it would take thousands of years to completly erase all visible trace of humans. The show talks about how long it would take famous buildings to crumble, the Mona Lisa to deteriorate without its' controlled atmosphere, Lenin would only take a couple of weeks, etc.
comment 25
panya date : 14/06/2009 time : 21.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C25

In the days of the early docking of the shuttle with the Space Station, there was some (supposedly) official NASA footage of UFOs around the Space Station, which I believe was shown on TV as the commentator couldn't see the Space Station and kept making comments about the 'moving objects' in the picture. It was quite bizarre, dunno if I've still got it or could make it into a video to post.

There was also a bit of film of the original(?) flight of Concorde, with an object circling the nosecone and maintaining speed and course next to the aircraft.

Of course, it all could have been manufactured. But was there something like iMovie around in those days?
comment 24
expresso date : 14/06/2009 time : 21.39
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

I hate people who say our governments are lying to us on such subjects like UFO.

Please may call them ignorant, those politicians, but they ain't lying! This is the world we are getting into!
comment 23
expresso date : 14/06/2009 time : 21.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

I thought the Mayans said our earth started at about 3110 BC and would end 2010 AD.

Did our earth start at 3110 BC as the Mayans had said?

Why then do we need to worry about 2010 AD which was deemed as the end of a cycle of destruction?
comment 22
panya date : 14/06/2009 time : 18.49
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C20 Alien

Yes, it was the Mayan calendar, I think. But what did Nostradamus say about 2012?

I don't worry about when I am going to die; I worry about the result of 'what I do' and 'how I want to live' on those I leave behind.

C21 Ian

Is it the pre Ice Age cultures who are attributed with the extraordinary levels of skill and knowledge (in some areas) of the early Egyptians, Incas, Mayans etc? Precessional periods, pole displacements, astrological movements are all quite awkward without wiki...
comment 21
Ian date : 14/06/2009 time : 18.21
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Mayan, Revelations, Nostrodamus, add Hindu mythology and Chinese, also Polynesian. All have predictions and all point to roughly the same date if you make calender adjustments. It is theorised that these dates arise from the Precessional period of approximately 25,000 years, 12,000 years being maximum pole displacements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession_(astronomy)
these changes are remembered and predicted by the most ancient human cultures.
There is increasing evidence of a global pre-Ice Age culture that was wiped out by the Ice Ages, and another culture wiped out by the collapse of the Ice ages and the 200m rise in sea levels.
During the last Ice Age the continental shelves were exposed.
comment 20
Alien date : 14/06/2009 time : 16.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

Comment 14 - Hello Panya. I saw a program on the History Channel where they interpret Mayan writings left behind to say that is what they predict is the end date. They then say that Revelations from the bible can be interpreted the same way. I believe they also used some of Nostradamus' quartrains to support the same end date. People have been predicting the end of the world for centuries now. Worry about what you are going to do while you are alive and how you want to live your life, don't waste your life worrying about when you are going to die.
comment 19
Ian date : 14/06/2009 time : 16.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Many people miss the obvious, in a global catastrophe scenario we have the technology to survive. What we will lack is the ability to maintain that technology.
Take a simple device like a knife, to make it diggers need to dig iron ore, refineries need to extract the iron, presses are needed to shape and mold the blade.

I happen to live in a part of England, the "weald", where iron extraction working was a cottage industry. The Iron ore lay on the surface as haematite nodules, the surrounding forests (long gone), provided the charcoal, and the many streams provided the power for trip hammers.

So when your steel blade wears out what will you do?
comment 18
panya date : 14/06/2009 time : 16.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C17

I saw it, and was bitterly disappointed, especially with Spielberg's slush at the end. I loved Kubrick's work, and had he made it, the movie would have left one speechless, I'm sure.
comment 17
noonin date : 14/06/2009 time : 15.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Commet 16
The film "Artificial Intelligence", comes to mind.
This film was to have been made by Stanley Kubrick as he knew it would be his last.

Quote
a project Spielberg inherited from the late Stanley Kubrick. Kubrick's films were about as cuddly as rectal probes, and for nearly two hours, A.I. adheres to the late master's modus operandi. They're two of the most challenging, haunting hours you'll see this year. Then the roof caves in. Though he has the chance to finish with a flourish, Spielberg insists on tacking on an extra 30 minutes of baffling schmaltz which all but upturns the entire affair. The result is still an impressive piece of work, but leaves you pining for what could have been.
comment 16
panya date : 14/06/2009 time : 14.55
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Noonin, your response has made me feel quite sad, not from its content, but from the realisation that as I grow older (I'm not very near twilight, as far as I know), every day I appreciate more the marvel of what we have on this planet. But every day, I see more evidence that general awareness of, and care for, that marvellous existence is diminishing almost proportionately, and the global dispersion of greed and self-interest is the most destructive aspect. Ironically, there has never been a better time for us to create a unified understanding, and never have we been further apart.

Rather than Doomsday, I foresee a cataclysmic catastrophe that will emasculate our global existence, a veritable tragedy, which leaves not a better world for our children, just a future world of automation and technological survival (shades of THX1138 and BladeRunner creeping in here!) where people are almost totally receptive because they have to be, natural constraints dictating survival through corporate permission and governmental instruction. (As an aside, is global corporate governance what will replace our failed capitalist system?)

Adaptation may certainly determine what, not who, will survive. We must therefore work on the adaptation, to maximise our chances.
comment 15
noonin date : 14/06/2009 time : 13.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/noonin

Comment 12 Comment 13/ reply to 8.

But I try to remember that when everyone talks about the 'end of the planet', it is nonsense, they really mean the 'end of our species'. There is no way the Earth really gives a shit if we are on it or not. We are just not that important part of its ecosystems, at all. Probably quite the opposite.

I had this on my mind to write about last night. Many of us on Nation blog are in our twilight years. The Domesday predictions probably will occur after our inevitable deaths. Logically we should not care.Life upon Earth will end sometime, maybe millions of years in the future or in just a few years.
Yet old as we are that basic instinct for the survival of the species is within us. Part of the make up that makes us compassionate as discussed in Ian's blog "Why".

Ian once commented that he does not have any grandchildren,yet he has a grandfather's instinct to care for children. Ian is a senior writer here and I am sure has no illusions that the time of departure from this life is nearer now than before.He wants his genes to survive.
True death is with us from the day we were born; we older people know we have been lucky to escape for so long and the longer we survive the more people who we once knew are no longer with us. Such is life/death. That desire for our genes to continue remains to the very end.
I can make an excuse for this instinct by saying I wish for a better world, a future world for my children. True, but I will not be there to share it.

Comment reply/8


Agreed, it does seem pointless to waffle on, but it's not because of people like Alien as much as those who simply don't care, either because they fear change to their perceived right of existence, or because they may not be alive to see the hideous result of their indifference. There is no beauty in their lives, they are devoid of the wonder of life.

As Ian said unfortunately history /anthropology demonstrates that cataclysmic changes do and will occur, adaptation will determine what (not who) will survive. That survival will be to the next cataclysm and so on until the Sun explodes or whatever, until the universe implodes and recreates itself.

The big question!

Buddhism is interesting in this aspect as it has a cycle of eternal events at its core.
Perhaps a more knowledgeable Buddhist would like to comment. (not HJ)
comment 14
panya date : 14/06/2009 time : 12.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

Ian

I forgot to add, the Dec 2012 solstice is also the time when the Earth and Sun line up directly with the largest black hole in our galaxy, the Milky Way. The magnetic forces from the black hole would certainly aggravate the tectonic plate shift, causing irreperable damage from earthquakes, storms and floods. It might also result in the ice caps repositioning considerably closer to what we term the 'equator'..... need I say more.

I'm planning to visit my temple atop a hill up north for a wee holiday that month.
comment 13
panya date : 14/06/2009 time : 12.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C7/C9

I completely agree with both of you, that as fast as the resources dry up, we find ways of increasing yield and manipulating existing resources to fill in with what we are losing. What interests me is the effects that have indirect results which aggravate the situation. More crops grown from the same seeds are far more susceptible to disease or insects. Perfection of GMOs may accelerate mutations. Larger food conglomerates undertake more devious marketing to prevail. We may always find a solution, but we need to consider the indirect consequences for which the solution may prove too late or just too elusive.

Like C8, i do not believe Doomsday predictions either. But I try to remember that when everyone talks about the 'end of the planet', it is nonsense, they really mean the 'end of our species'. There is no way the Earth really gives a shit if we are on it or not. We are just not that important part of its ecosystems, at all. Probably quite the opposite.

C11

I commend your optimism and admire your trust in the human ability to find solutions as mentioned above. And I think it is good to believe in the 'new standard of time', as being a kind of rebirth. But such optimism rather depends on the goodness and grace of the global populations to share such solutions, new technologies, and the sacrifices which will need to go with them, to achieve the global changes needed to achieve such a 'new standard'.

And they don't.

The major countries cannot even agree on environmental objectives. The cannot even agree on the fair sharing of resources. They cannot even agree on different religious beliefs and lifestyles. What's mine is mine, and what's yours I'll buy, or steal. And if you don't agree and believe as I do, I'll send my missiles.

Where is the unity of purpose? Developed countries may see the need to minimise industrial waste. Developing countries want those industrial rewards and comforts. People want electric cars. China is putting 14,000 new cars on its roads every DAY.

C12

I'm glad you mentioned this, Ian, as I have heard several times about the icecaps, and their increased melt rate. There is also the concern over the Canadian tundra, which covers a mega-enormous area of semidecayed vegetable matter; as soon as the tundra thaws and 'gaps' or 'vents' appear, a huge volume of methane gas will escape, provoking a temperature increase of 4 or 5 degrees C. This is exactly the sort of indirect result which we may not be able to plan for, and it's repercussions would touch animals, crops, lifestyle and climate. Maybe someone would suggest burning it off.......

Incidentally, the South Polar cap is melting 6 times faster than expected, I hear. Vast areas of sea which normally ice over to a significant depth are hardly covering up.

Agreed, it does seem pointless to waffle on, but it's not because of people like Alien as much as those who simply don't care, either because they fear change to their perceived right of existence, or because they may not be alive to see the hideous result of their indifference. There is no beauty in their lives, they are devoid of the wonder of life. And they are the ones who are most exploited as Talkfact says in C9.

One only needs to look at the banks of the Mekong, and remember.
comment 12
Ian date : 14/06/2009 time : 03.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

wch, you are wrong about the effects of polar ice melt, yes the Artic ice will not have too great an effect, other than to dramatically speed up climate change. However is the South polar ice were to melt sea levels would rise 60 metres.
But this would be as nothing compared to the changes caused by readjustments in the isostatic balance of the global plates, possibly triggering a Toba or Yellowstone event.
We are also overdue for a pole reversal which could also be triggered by plate adjustments.
The Dec 2012 event is due to a major planetary alignment on the sun, this will affect the solar magnetic field, the solar wind and hence the terrestial magnetosphere, without the manetosphere we are sitting ducks for solar and cosmic radiation, equivalent to being a few miles from a nuclear bomb explosion.
As the planet warms up we can expect extreme weather conditions, droughts, floods, heat waves, hurricanes and abnormal cold periods.
Humans are adaptable but the plants and animals we depend on for food are less so, in many cases we have bred this out of them. Many will not survive climate change, it is one thing to move an annual crop northwards, but trees take decades.
I could go on and on, but it is rather pointless there are too many people who think like Alien, I am not blaming him, I blame government and big corporations who lie to us about the future.
All this has happened before, many times, indeed humans would not exist otherwise, without the mass extinction 65 million years ago we would still be creeping around in the walls of Raptor cities. Without the Toba event we would be chipping flints in Africa. Without the breach of the Gibraltar land bridge we would still be nomadic hunters.
Disasters drive evolution, humans might not survive, but our descendants will. I wonder what they will look like?
comment 11
netnapit date : 14/06/2009 time : 02.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/netnapit

c6, the descendants of the Mayan are still very much alive and present.

Civilizations rise and fall as time moves forward. I expect one day our oil based civilization will also transform into something our present generation may not recognize. During that time of transformation, I have complete faith in humanity and its creativity to find solutions, for no better reason than that our survival depends on it.

I am developing a fascination for an observation of the oil industry and all its resulting economic activities. I believe it has given us unprecedented level of growth and prosperity, something we had to learn so that we could understand the limits of growth. I find it hopeful that once we've understood the potential environmental distortion of plastics (for example), we are now developing biodegradable plastics. We are also well on the path to seriously developing alternative fuels. We still have a lot to learn about finding appropriate levels of growth and how to share wealth across all of the world's diverse groups. I believe that too will come with time, not as ideal as we would wish it, but better than where we are today.

I've read about the 2012 prophecy, I think maybe the interpretation of "the end of time" can be interpreted that we will move into a new standard of time. Not necessarily that the world will blow up instantaneously in that year, +/- a few.
comment 10
naive date : 14/06/2009 time : 00.36
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/naive
Narrow and wide by "Naive" point of view. ...................................*v*....................................................................For Thai reader visit http://www.oknation.net/blog/wickedgirl

All we have to do is move away to other planet.
Like we did in the part before we found earth.
comment 9
talkfact date : 13/06/2009 time : 20.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/jern
penfact 

Hello Panya (and welcome),
The near extinction of fish in the sea is not a conspiracy. It’s a fact. The demolition of tropical jungles (about to happen in Peru now) is not a conspiracy. It’s a tragic fact.
However, much worse than all these attacks on the environment is something else:
The global empire of ordinary people who refuse to see things as they are and on a now global basis give away their own power to some leaders who prefer to rule by dictatorship. The notion those leaders have about environment is a postcard-view at the best.
The basic thing to face here is this: Dictatorship is inside ordinary people. It was not invented by those leaders. It was given to them. All they did was to administrate it according to their own (inferior) minds. But still: they were not born with this power. It was given to them by those who preferred not to see…..
comment 8
Alien date : 13/06/2009 time : 11.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/alien

There have been prophesies of Doomsday since day 1. I don't believe them.
comment 7
wch date : 13/06/2009 time : 08.54

Dear Panya,

Food production ?. It has evoluted so fast since last half a century, in fact in conformity to the climate change and deseases.
For instance, rice, Rice needs enough sunny days and minium paddy days were 180 days but today, new species yields within 115 days. In enterprise-oriented farms, the cycle is lowered further around 80-90 days. That is a technique in which saplings are grown old enough before planting in water pad, cut the first half of grown saplings prior to be planted, the method offers amazing result, that is desease-free effect.
Traditional species of rice such as Thai Jasmine yield in a kernel (grain head) about 85 grains but new species fruits 135 grains.
If one talks about GMO seed, it is not virtuous but it is inevitable to meet the climate change. All the corn, wheat,potato are same today. They produce enough to feed 6.5 billion population. Whole popluation will stop at 7.0 billion and it will turn down. This trend has already started in devoloped nations and it quickly spread over BRIC's.
comment 6
panya date : 13/06/2009 time : 08.07
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/diversion

C1/2
Thank you for your welcome. I shall see what I can find on the prophecies you mention. The Mayan prophecy concerning Dec 2012 is curious too; they were an extraordinary civilisation whose growth exceeded their ability to feed themselves, with climate change being the final straw, so maybe a small parallel to our global situation today?

C4/5
If I may interpret 'degradation of values' as 'expected lifestyle', this was a part of EARTH2100 which interested me. The growth of the population is putting strain on all resources, but it is the modern lifestyle which people expect to continue that will cause the trouble. At the moment, you turn on the tap, you switch on the light, you go out to buy food, you use dvd/tv/aircon/cooker/internet - it is almost impossible to think that such facilities could be threatened, so no effort is made to minimise such use. Everyone carries on living as they want, understandably, and the problems are always round the corner, maybe only appearing when it is too late.

Climate change may be due to humans, but it is widely believed that it would be changing anyway. We have been so adaptable that we may not notice how much we need to change, until we cannot adapt any further. The climate change, even if as you suggest is to self-stabilize, will still cause problems with the production of food. The expansion of the hot band around the planet will drive people to better pastures, even if they are not theirs. There may be no overall reduction in global water, but there could be seriously less fresh water, more problems for growing food and people in hot countries. And of course, with populations growing so fast in some areas, their is bound to be an increase in social conflict internationally.

This programme is a Worse Case Scenario, so I too hope for wch forecast of more natural living trends spreading around the world. But first, how do we get people off their dependence on oil, plastic, electricity, conveniences and luxuries, all of which people see as being their right?
comment 5
wch date : 13/06/2009 time : 05.30

Most of futurists of today are in fact, non-professional people who are unable to integrate and comprehend the whole. I invite an old gentleman, Ian to debate altogether.

Let me open the issue, Climate Change. My conclusion is, It will not change much in year, 2010.
This people always think that if the arctic ice is molten, Atlantic ocean will level up and slowly move into other oceans. This is wrong.
In earth system, total amount of humidity, any form of water,vapour, water, ice or snow whatsoever. The climate is changing when the humidity changes into other form such as water to vapour- cloud, cloud to rain, rain water to ice.

Also 4 fifths of north ice is under water already, If melt, only the top, a fifth be melt that however does not elevate sea level much.
the molten ice, now water does not level up the Atlantic ocean. The molten water just 'sit down' as where molten and the sit-down weight just push side to side to generate wave. The wave quickly reaches Pacific ocean. One can test this in a swimming pool. The manager fill water at a side of pool and one can observe if a water form a current to reach the opposite side or not. My answer is no. The filled water is just sitting down there and push side to regulate same level of water surface in the whole.

Stronger hurricane is due to the bigger drop- pressure difference when a water form changes to another form of water. More speedier, more quickly the climate stabilizes by itself.
Such radical change of climate clean the earth atmosphere, say, wash down all the pollutes into water and settle down into ocean bed. This is self-stabilization process.

Of course such abrupt change of climate can bring up more deceases like swine flu virus but real thing is super-bacteria, like earlier TB pandemic in the world. However a part of science is now preparing to it. 'Super-Bacteria' will be the topic in 2100.

In 2100, I forecast people will adopt more natural living style. They will live in adobe house, in solar-heated winter. In fact this trend is steadily settling down, from the west.
Europeans may lead such trend first and proliferate around globe. Trust me 555
comment 4
expresso date : 12/06/2009 time : 23.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/expresso

Shoot, to me, it's the degradation of values.

The focuses have changed as witnessed!
comment 3
GGrass date : 12/06/2009 time : 23.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/GGrass

And of course there's the comet hitting the earth.

It could happen any minute now.
comment 2
netnapit date : 12/06/2009 time : 21.37
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/netnapit

Welcome to blogging at the Nation Weblog. New perspectives are always warmly welcomed, it makes our group more interesting.
comment 1
netnapit date : 12/06/2009 time : 21.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/netnapit

In Thailand, "end of world" prophecies receive a lot of attention. "Kali yuk" is popularly branded around by Thai astrologers. Astrologers hold an important position in Thai society, sort of like volunteer psychoanalysts, who don't only give individual advice but also advice at the societal level.

Interestingly enough, there is also another subconscious prophecy that holds equal weight and crops up in a while (especially when people are in positive moods) which is the "Yuk Pra Sri An". This cropped up upon me one day when I was giving a talk at a Rotary Club about technology's turning points and the importance of electronic communication and how it can equalize our world. I was quite astonished with the audience's intuitive response, but it was an intriguing experience indeed.
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