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Thai Talk
Analysis and comments on political and current affairs
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Thursday , March 18 , 2010
Amatayatippatai or Thaksins patronage: No other choice?
Posted by Yoon , Reader : 257 , 06:49:01  
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This is a class war! It's the last battle! Down with the amataya! Victory for the downtrodden! We are fighting for real democracy! We are all part of a historic moment! I have a confession to make. After listening to all the heated, rousing, inflammatory speeches by some of the red-shirt leaders over the past week, I have become an addict to such stirring oratory.

It all began with the yellow-shirts' rallies. At first, their language was crude and raw. But as their daily outpourings of anger and rage against Thaksin Shinawatra peaked, the linguistic heat was turned on. And the language at public rallies has never the same again.

The red shirts picked up from where their rivals left off. And now, the usual critical terms - corruption, conflict of interest, abuse of power - aren't sufficient to turn the verbal onslaught into a real hit. I can't repeat the new utterances they use on stage to keep the protestors alert, awake and aroused. Most of the provocative words used simply aren't printable here. And that, I suspect, is why I, like lots of news junkies, have become hooked. And I now need my daily fix of verbal outburst to sustain me through the day.

Ordinary political expressions have become too bland, too flat and boring. If you don't scream and shout and raise your fists, you don't attract my attention any more.

Back in May 2008, Thaksin gives Prem a wai when both of them attended the funeral of the mother of Army chief Gen Anupong Paochinda.

Then I started to get serious about following the slogans on the red shirts' stage. I wanted to play a role in "overthrowing the amatayatippatai" - which has been loosely translated as "bureaucratic polity". But I wasn't sure what that means or who they are talking about.

Of course, I know they are saying that General Prem Tinsulanonda, chairman of the Privy Council, must go. But is he the only "amataya"? Perhaps the names of a few other privy councillors have also been mentioned in the heated verbal attacks.

But if the "amatayatippatai" is to be toppled, the whole bureaucracy will have to be dismantled. They can't just pick and choose only a handful. They have roused my fighting spirit. They simply can't go only halfway.

After all, the red speakers on stage were telling us: "This is the last war. Down with the amataya! Long live Thaksin's populism."

Academics have always said that Thai society is inevitably influenced by the patronage system. We the ordinary folks (the "prai", as the red-shirt orators repeatedly tell us) will always have to seek patrons in one form or another.

Then, I asked myself: If the "bureaucratic polity" is finally overthrown, what is the alternative? That leaves only a patronage system under Thaksin Shinawatra.

That's what the red-shirt leaders didn't tell us. They said we were fighting for "real democracy". They said that once the amatayatippatai was gone, we would be "free and independent".

That certainly sounds great: Just follow Thaksin and his lieutenants, then the whole of Thailand will turn into a real democracy instantly. Just like that. It's as miraculous as that.

But are things really so simple? I was reminded that Thaksin was also in cahoots with the amatayas when he was in business, and later in politics. In fact, he couldn't have built up his incredible wealth without his kow-towing to the amatayas in the first place.

All evidence suggests that he broke with them only when he thought General Prem was behind his ouster.

Then, it suddenly dawned on me: If General Prem goes, does it mean the amatayatippai will immediately disappear? Is it really as simple as Thaksin puts it?

But the most disturbing question of all is: What's more dangerous, living with the amatayas or living under Thaksin's patronage?

I know the answer. But how do I wean myself off my addiction to the red shirts' daily stirring rhetoric without some serious withdrawal symptoms.

That, I am afraid, isn't going to be easy, now that blood has been "spilled", although not a single shot has been fired. Whatever the tactics, the country has been badly wounded.


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comment 16
Hermano_Lobo date : 18/03/2010 time : 21.00
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

Throughout recorded time, and probably since the end of the Neolithic Age, there have been three kinds of people in the world, the High, the Middle, and the Low. They have been subdivided in many ways, they have borne countless different names, and their relative numbers, as well as their attitude towards one another, have varied from age to age: but the essential structure of society has never altered. Even after enormous upheavals and seemingly irrevocable changes, the same pattern has always reasserted itself, just as a gyroscope will always return to equilibrium, however far it is pushed one way or the other.

The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives -- is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal. Thus throughout history a struggle which is the same in its main outlines recurs over and over again. For long periods the High seem to be securely in power, but sooner or later there always comes a moment when they lose either their belief in themselves or their capacity to govern efficiently, or both. They are then overthrown by the Middle, who enlist the Low on their side by pretending to them that they are fighting for liberty and justice. As soon as they have reached their objective, the Middle thrust the Low back into their old position of servitude, and themselves become the High. Presently a new Middle group splits off from one of the other groups, or from both of them, and the struggle begins over again. Of the three groups, only the Low are never even temporarily successful in achieving their aims. It would be an exaggeration to say that throughout history there has been no progress of a material kind. Even today, in a period of decline, the average human being is physically better off than he was a few centuries ago. But no advance in wealth, no softening of manners, no reform or revolution has ever brought human equality a millimetre nearer. From the point of view of the Low, no historic change has ever meant much more than a change in the name of their masters.
comment 15
dryshrimp date : 18/03/2010 time : 20.59
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dryshrimp

Janus/Noonin

ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.

-George Orwell
Animal farm
comment 14
janus date : 18/03/2010 time : 19.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mi58

Comment 2
I hear you!
What all the rest are writing about; up to them!
comment 13
Mobydick date : 18/03/2010 time : 17.11

"Amatayatippatai" again.

Once I asked an ordinary Thai girl what was "amart",she told me : "Prem,Surayud and their peers".She was right,although she had not finished her high school education.

Now we read Khun Krajog's explanation first:

[The word in Thai, ÍÓÁÒµÂÒ¸Ô»äµÂ , or Amatayatippatai is a compound word derived from two Sanskrit words “amaatya and aadhipatya. The word amaatya means minister or a high-ranking official who is close to the king in the old days of absolute monarchy. In plain English it means a high-ranking bureaucrat. The word adhiptya or aadhipatya as spelt in Spoken Sanskrit-English Dictionary. Adhiptya means power, sovereignty and supremacy.]

Therefore amataya (or simplily amat) means "a high-ranking official who is close to the king" + tippatai,which means supremacy.

tippatai(¸Ô»äµÂ) is not a new word,the word democracy in Thai is bpra-chaa(people) + tippatai(supremacy).

When we compare these two compound words,we can see that their second parts are the same,only their first parts are different.

What is bra-chaa(people)?
We are people then of course we know what are bra-chaa.

What is Amat (Thai nouns for singular and plural are the same)?
From Khun Krajog's definition : "a high-ranking official who is close to the king in the old days of absolute monarchy".

Therefore after 1932,when absolute monarchy was replaced by constitutional monarchy,Thailand did not have amat but Privy Councillors.

Privy Councillors are royal servants, not public servants,and they are appointed by the Monarch.
Prime Ministers are public servants,not royal servants,and they are elected by the people.

Now some Privy Councillors are called "amat" because,it is believed by the Reds,that they have extended their influence and power outside of the Palace to topple democratically elected PMs.

The second part of these two words is tippatai (supremacy=extreme power).In politics,if People have the extreme power to change a govenment through elections,then this is called democracy.If a Monarch has the extreme power to change a government,then it is called absolute monarchy.If Privy Councillors have the extreme power to change a government,then it is called feudal bureaucracy.

Some bloggers have translated "amat" (or ammart, or Amataya) as "elites" or "high-ranking officials" are misleading (intentionally or unintentionally),because amat must be appointed by a monarch.

Therefrore the slogan "overthrowing the amatayatippatai" means overthrowing feudal bureaucy.

Privy Councillors should not have the extreme power to overthrow a democratically elected government.Otherwise democracy has no meaning at all.Without democracy,revolution and civil war will happen sooner or later.
comment 12
HA_HA date : 18/03/2010 time : 15.01

c11, he's just spoiled...not as smart as his dad.

just got a forward mail about Jatuporn's background. it claimed a friend of his said "Tu is very pity. he was very poor when he was a kid. now he can do anything for money." haha...

see? rich or poor alike, you can be attacked. it's all about prejudice.
comment 11
massein date : 18/03/2010 time : 14.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

I think you will find the son a chip off the old block. I say agin it depends on what you do with you good fortune that counts
comment 10
Ian date : 18/03/2010 time : 13.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

wch, not a good comparison, both the UK and Japan, in their present forms, were shaped by the aftermath of a world war.
comment 9
wch date : 18/03/2010 time : 13.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

class strugle is long overdue in Thailand. without the fever, Thailand can not turn into the liberal commoners' society.
the struggles of case from British empire to present united kingdom, and the case of Imperial Japan to present commoners' society should be good examples that Thai people can copy. Thailand can copy it without bloods.
comment 8
HA_HA date : 18/03/2010 time : 12.40

c7, mr. masien, mr. t cann't compare with them. especially with warren buffet. my point is wealth is not always bad thing.

i grew up with thai soap which always portray a poor girl with good heart as a heroin. and rich bad girls. and i got that impression that rich was bad too. now i realize it's not true. in real life i found out children who come from well to do, educated, and well protected are very kind..not always spoiled like the rich brats they portrayed in soap. ... and i mean here in Thailand na. i don't know about the rich kids in the US.

and i don't think there's any wrong with thaksin 2 daughters who never ride on a bus. they're very nice. the son is spoiled yes. used to be... i don't know about him now. i feel bad for them to not have a normal life... study, graduate, and build a career of themselves. it's fun to work and date and hang out with colleague after work. ...i don't know...
comment 7
massein date : 18/03/2010 time : 12.15
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

Ha Ha , both the men you mention I would be honor to meet, I would look them square in the eye and offer them my hand in friendship, but i would not bow. They deserve respect not for what they have acheive , but for what they have done with their good fortune, they have been very generous with their fortune. I would say that T could not even come close to their generosity
comment 6
HA_HA date : 18/03/2010 time : 12.04

i was on sukhumvit road yesterday when the RED swarmed down.

one of the speaker said, "dissolve the parliament, have a general election. and if you will come back again we will accept that."

isn't that fair enough?
comment 5
HA_HA date : 18/03/2010 time : 11.59

c2, thaksin never said he is a prai.
and why? can't the rich side with the poor, especially now that he see how rotten this old power can be? after he was mistreated by "amataya"?

how far a poor man can help people? ..think about kru prateep and her slum children. and bill gates and warren buffet.

i'm not poor. not rich. not amataya, not prai.


comment 4
HA_HA date : 18/03/2010 time : 11.50

first thing first.
disolution of parliament.
general election.
let people choose.
comment 3
massein date : 18/03/2010 time : 11.11
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/massein

to say the least the manner in which everone wants expects to be treated in Thailand is bizzare to Americans. But in have thes notions we are accuse of not respecting Thai culture. Mr T was right out in front demanding that That people wai and basicly kiss his A__, now he is aganist this. I under stand being polite to manager,teachers, doctors and bosses, but I reserve my real respect for senior citizens, and people who have a track record of personal sacracife to benifit other people. but for most , You put you pants on the same way I do One Leg At A Time. I certainly don't respect someone who has a honoray Dr. that he proble paid for. But in saying all this I do wai when approiate., but my hear is not in it, I have more respect for the Farmer that labors long daus to feed his family and the nation for little compesation. Its is time that the middle class and the rich start recognizing the hard working villege people, and give them a shot at the brass ring
comment 2
dryshrimp date : 18/03/2010 time : 08.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dryshrimp

Talking about classes is just another campaign from Mr. Marketing. He could abuse many vocabularies and cause misunderstanding.
Ammart- he himself used to be an ammart.
Khunying = his wife's title shows an obvious class.
Private Jet - a Prai cannot have one.
Houses and lands in Thailand and abroad - He and his cronies again collect to add status and class.

All his children never ride a bus to school. How can this guy put himself as idol for the red shirt crowd to abolish Ammart !!!
comment 1
truerthanu date : 18/03/2010 time : 07.29
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/truerthanu
Truer Than U

Yes you have hit the nail on the head so to speak.
The only class war I can see is a class war between the rich and priviliged classes amongst themselves using the rest of the middle and lower classes to do their dirty work. I think those proponents of a class analysis of the current Red and Yellow conflict should attend a compulsory Marxist re education camp. Maybe it is a class war between pre cadet classes or school classes with the various protagonists being schoolyard bullies.
Painting the conflict in terms of a Marxist analysis of class is a very convenient way to divert the public away from the reality of Thaksin as a fascist wannabe dictator. Dont cry for me Argentia revisited.
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