• Yoon
  • ranking : Nation Staff
  • email : yoon@nationgroup.com
  • created : 2007-06-13
  • entry : 606
  • visitors : 292087
  • votes : 359
  • send msg :
Thai Talk
Analysis and comments on political and current affairs
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ThaiTalk
Thursday , September 24 , 2009
Forget GDP, let's initiate a social divisiveness index instead
Posted by Yoon , Reader : 915 , 06:36:06  
Print


WHEN Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz was in Bangkok recently, he was emphatic that we had to look for some other indicators to replace GDP figures in measuring our social well-being.

In Paris last week, he said, "What we measure affects what we do. If we have the wrong measures, we will strive for the wrong things."

French President Nicolas Sarkozy, saying that the world had been trapped in a "cult of figures", launched a major new report by the Nobel Prize-winning economist Stiglitz and a panel of experts about how to ensure that governments take full account of their citizens' happiness and well-being instead of measuring success by gross domestic product (GDP) alone.

The commission proposed changes to the way GDP is measured, suggesting separate accounting for people's well-being and for the sustainability of a country's economy and natural resources.

Stiglitz and Jean-Paul Fitoussi, co-author of the report, said a more comprehensive method for measuring performance would cut the per capita GDP gap between the US and France by at least half. As it stands now, US per capita GDP is 14 per cent higher than France's.

The commission did not work out the effect of its proposals on different countries, but Stiglitz was quoted by The Financial Times as saying that the changes would bring about "major adjustment".

It's interesting to note that when calculating GDP, the commission called for greater use of net national income (taking into account profits exported or imported) and of household income, which would consider taxes, social benefits and bank interest.

The most significant aspect of the proposals, to me, is the suggestion that we should from now on pay more attention to non-market activities, including leisure. Hard work alone isn't going to be a good measurement of our happiness.

Emphasis is also on the greater use of objective measures of well-being and subjective indicators of happiness, covering income and wealth, health, education, social connections and relationships, the environment, insecurity and, yes, even "political systems".

I am afraid that in the "political systems" category, Thailand, at least in the current state of affairs, would fail - and perhaps fail miserably.

Not surprisingly, the experts admit that measuring "sustainability" is fraught with difficulties. But the report did suggest that one way forward would be to calculate stocks of human and physical capital and natural resources.

Sarkozy - and I suspect he is trying to make "happiness" a new item on France's export list - declared, "For years we proclaimed the financial world a creator of wealth, until we learned one day that it had accumulated so much risk that it plunged us into chaos."

Stiglitz made it clear that looking at GDP without accounting for environmental damage in the figures offers an artificial picture. He said, "A firm would look at its assets and liabilities if it wanted to see if it was better or worse off. Yet, we don't look at any of these things when we talk about the balance sheet of society."

He told The Observer, "By looking at GDP, you didn't know whether what was going on was sustainable - and it obviously wasn't. The second point is that when you add apples and oranges to form GDP, you use prices, and they reflect the relative values that people put on apples and oranges."

The problem with this, he said, is that when there is a big bubble in an economy, as there was in the US and UK over the past decade, the prices of some assets - properties and shares in this case - can move far out of line with reality. That, in turn, creates an illusion of economic success while in fact calamity was just waiting around the corner."

It isn't such a bad idea for the Abhisit government, which has embraced the "sufficiency economy" concept, to publish a range of quality-of-life indicators that include environment, education, health, and, of particular importance under the prevailing circumstances, social relations with friends with whom they don't share political opinions.

To begin with, why not introduce a weekly "Social Divisiveness Index" to monitor the rise and fall of the "degree of unhappiness" among the Thai people? Then perhaps, the GDP growth numbers won't be that important anymore.

(Follow my daily Tweets with my thoughts on breaking news at: |www.twitter.com/suthichai)


Read comment

comment 6
wch date : 25/09/2009 time : 08.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

Let's talk about the 'Divisiveness' of Thai people.

Is it the division when the Yellow and the Red come out and demonstrate ?
Any journalist must be called in to prove if the Yellow is against the Red ?. Each has own goal.
Of course the Yellow was formed to expel corrupted Thaksin and his families, not TRT or any other political institutions.
The Red was made by Thaksin himself to recover his wealth and his old power.
Neverthless The Yellow never took the Red as hostile opposition but they leave the Red whatsoever they do because it is the principle of democracy.

If divisiveness is address, it must be directed to the disapproval of the rural poor against Bangkok elite class who has been swindling tax money.
The rural poor is 'exploited' of their 7% compulsory VAT tax on the Bangkok made, deplorable products.
If this 40 million powerful rural consumers is without, Thailand is just a duck egg in the Siam gulf.

Agains the divisiveness, now in the ironical history.
Prasat Praviharn was built during Lavo Kingdom, the founder of Ayuttaya Kingdom taken in the last part by Tai rulers.

Bangkok elite class has been denying the historic fact that Lavo Kingdom is belonging to Cambodian heritage, then why prasat praviharn must belong to Siam or Thailand ?.

The ruin is stamped as 'Heritage', moreover world heritage. Unless Thai people admit the history of Lavo Kingdom as the most legitimate predeccesor of their 1500 years history instead of now official 750 years history, Thailand must concede the HERITAGE to Cambodia. This is the LOGICS.

It is only the PAD the Yellow who can not accept this cold reality, and they now come out fight.
Is this wrong ? Is this divisiveness ?

Anyone is invited to contest me here.
comment 5
netnapit date : 25/09/2009 time : 03.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/netnapit

Leave it to Sarkozy to capitalise on drama and the media fall over themselves to promote it. J. Stiglitz himself also seems to be a bit of a spinner and guru loving Thais are easily enthralled (until the next hype comes along).

Flippancy and 'Social Divisiveness Indexes' aside, I do think the classic economic indicator, the GDP, will continue to evolve from its crude measurement of mere production capability. It has already moved ahead when Purchasing Power Parity and Human Development Index was brought into play.

The 292 page report publicized by Sarkozy's commision is the accumulative work of three eminences, namely, J. Stiglitz, Amartya Sen (the inspiration for the Human Development Index), and Jean-Paul Fitoussi. However, as in any great inventions, new ideas are grounded on the work of many thinkers. The alternative economic indicator being considered by many countries, not just France is also known as the GPI (Geniune Progress Indicator). Anyone with an appetite for equations and national accounting numbers can look it up.

Thai economists, government regulators, and politicians (in their legislative duty) should not only familiarize themselves with the increasing tendencies for considering other measurements of economic growth, they should in fact, use these indicators to help them decide how to make Thailand's development increasing authentic.

The 292 page report (pdf file):
http://www.stiglitz-sen-fitoussi.fr/documents/rapport_anglais.pdf
comment 4
notdisappointed date : 24/09/2009 time : 18.50

wch c1, "Potjamarn said " I burried my past"." She should have buried thaksin, literally, with ther past.
comment 3
peacefulness date : 24/09/2009 time : 11.31
nationmultimedia.com


Following post for hermanolobo’s blog “Amnesty Intl : A total faiure inThailand”

Thai constitution 2007, section 8 ---“The King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated. No person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action.”

Thai criminal penal code section 112----“whoever defames, insults or threatens the King, the Queen, the Heir-apparent or Regent shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years’.”

Miss daranee chanchernsilapakul(da torpedo), government supporter, was arrested on 22jul08 Tuesday , on charges of lese majeste following an order by former Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej

. UDD abandons 'Da Torpedo'
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/136865/udd-jilts-da-torpedo
......................

18 years in jail for 'Da Torpedo'
Writer: BangkokPost.com
Published: 28/08/2009 at 12:19 PM
The Criminal Court on Friday sentenced Daranee Chanchoengsilpakul, alias Da Torpedo, to 18 years imprisonment for lese majeste.
The court ruled that Ms Daranee, a United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship member, made several remarks deemed to be lese majeste in speeches on the stage at UDD rallies at Sanam Luang on Jan 18, June 7 and June 13 last year.
She was convicted on three counts of insulting the King and Queen and given a six-year sentence on each count. The court did not allow her a suspension of the jail term.
"The court finds she intended to insult and make threats to Their Majesties the King and Queen," one of the three judges said, reading the verdict.
After hearing the verdict, Ms Daranee, who was wearing a prison uniform and a surgical face mask, made a V sign with her hand to about 30 UDD supporters who turned up at the court in a show of support.
"It is what I expected to happen," she told reporters after the verdict. "I will appeal."
Prior to the hearing, Ms Daranee said her speeches were not aimed at the monarchy.
Her comments were aimed at the generals who ousted Thaksin Shinawatra, she said.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/152894/18-years-in-jail-for-da-torpedo
.....................

judging from the above mentioned details , miss daranee chanchernsilapakul (da torpedo) deserved the sentence by criminal court 18years in jail for 3 counts, 6yrs for each count. 18jan/07jun/13jun 2008 at sanumluang udd rally.

Fyi runaway fugitives including Giles ji ungpakorn, Jakrapob penkhae, Chucheep Cheevasuth, and Suchart Nagabangsai.

It has nothing to do with “amnasty international” or any kind of “human rights organization”. It is strictly thai domestic affairs within the scope of thai constitution and laws…………


Mthr fker hermanolobo, shut up , don’t try to show-off your ignorance , “aihia”………….


pics, daranee chanchernsilapakul (da torpedo)

yoon,, pls delete comment2 tks
comment 2
peacefulness date : 24/09/2009 time : 11.12
nationmultimedia.com


Following post for hermanolobo’s blog “Amnesty Intl : A total faiure inThailand”

Thai constitution 2007, section 8 ---“The King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated. No person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action.”

Thai criminal penal code section 112----“whoever defames, insults or threatens the King, the Queen, the Heir-apparent or Regent shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years’.”

Miss daranee chanchernsilapakul(da torpedo), government supporter, was arrested on 22jul08 Tuesday , on charges of lese majeste following an order by former Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej

. UDD abandons 'Da Torpedo'
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/136865/udd-jilts-da-torpedo
18 years in jail for 'Da Torpedo'
Writer: BangkokPost.com
Published: 28/08/2009 at 12:19 PM
The Criminal Court on Friday sentenced Daranee Chanchoengsilpakul, alias Da Torpedo, to 18 years imprisonment for lese majeste.
The court ruled that Ms Daranee, a United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship member, made several remarks deemed to be lese majeste in speeches on the stage at UDD rallies at Sanam Luang on Jan 18, June 7 and June 13 last year.
She was convicted on three counts of insulting the King and Queen and given a six-year sentence on each count. The court did not allow her a suspension of the jail term.
"The court finds she intended to insult and make threats to Their Majesties the King and Queen," one of the three judges said, reading the verdict.
After hearing the verdict, Ms Daranee, who was wearing a prison uniform and a surgical face mask, made a V sign with her hand to about 30 UDD supporters who turned up at the court in a show of support.
"It is what I expected to happen," she told reporters after the verdict. "I will appeal."
Prior to the hearing, Ms Daranee said her speeches were not aimed at the monarchy.
Her comments were aimed at the generals who ousted Thaksin Shinawatra, she said.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/152894/18-years-in-jail-for-da-torpedo
judging from the above mentioned details , miss daranee chanchernsilapakul (da torpedo) deserved the sentence by criminal court 18years in jail for 3 counts, 6yrs for each count. 18jan/07jun/13jun 2008 at sanumluang udd rally.
Fyi runaway fugitives including Giles ji ungpakorn, Jakrapob penkhae, Chucheep Cheevasuth, and Suchart Nagabangsai.

It has nothing to do with “amnasty international” or any kind of “human rights organization”. It is strictly thai domestic affairs within the scope of thai constitution and laws…………
Mthr fker hermanolobo, shut up , don’t try to show-off your ignorance , “aihia”………….

pics, daranee chanchernsilapakul (da torpedo)
comment 1
wch date : 24/09/2009 time : 09.43
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/wch

Either Joseph Stiglitz or Sarkozy has ever run a glocery shop?
If they had, they must say better than that, and say in the tail, why GDP is important.

GDP is like the daily sales of the glocery shop.
No sale no profit, and shop keeper and his family will starve.
Leaving the shop to an employee, he goes picnic for fresh air and roars into empty sky,
" I am happy, My degree of happiness is full",
Returning to the shop, employee brought truck and sacked whole shop,,,,

or, let's say he can feed his family by running the shop in the sufficiency manner.
One day, a young open neighbor another glocery mall, ' Modernest Convenience shop', cheap,
better quality and even internet shopping and home delivery is within broken,,,hour 555

mpAV is wiser and pragmatic. GDP is the matter, so FDI is important. He tries hard to convince cash rich people to come and enjoy Thainess, while
other unimpressive leaders are littering nonsensical, tall-tale speeches.
"Thailand recovered its normalcy. Please come back to build more factories and enjoy our beaches !"

Thaksin must behave now. Stirring commotion is a treason.
Potjamarn said " I burried my past".
Comment

  "If you are not member, please register to comment.
It take only a few steps."


  |  
name :  
email :  
website :  
comment :  
   
   

back top

<< September 2009 >>
s m t w t f s
    1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30