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Thai Talk
Analysis and comments on political and current affairs
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Monday , May 26 , 2008
Blog Talk...Violence against democracy rally inexcusable
Posted by Yoon , Reader : 1012 , 11:26:03  
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Click to watch the scenes of violence against members of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) at the anti-government rally at Democracy Monument and Suthichai Yoon's comment on this terrible turn of events.

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comment 18
Hermano_Lobo date : 31/05/2008 time : 05.03
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

If there is more to this than a few anti-Samak rallies and a profound power struggle is beginning behind the scenes? It could get nasty;the stakes could be high. August may get a bit tricky.
comment 17
Hermano_Lobo date : 31/05/2008 time : 04.06
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

Is it true that a Thaksin relative has just been givem a high police position? Well they are bound to be anti-PAD.
We are commenting on the pawns in the game. I have a feeling that the main protagonists have taken a step back for the moment but are planning future battles.
comment 16
Lalida date : 28/05/2008 time : 14.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

DKO,

I have to agree with Ian on this issue and I further disagree with what you mentioned of what Max wrote.

"This isn't the time anyone with brains goes to rally in the streets but anyone with brains and a heart for the country would go and work to rebuild the economy and reform government"

Let's face it, the new government was never given a chance of peace ever since they took the office, not even from day 1. Thai people are sick of all these already, everyone went through the bad time during Thaksin crises all started off by these PAD clowns, it finished, the coup came in another time of depression. Now the whole world is going into depression and specailly Thai when everything is goin upside down. People are already suffering from high cost inflation, now this! What's the real purpose of the PAD's everyones knows, are they doing good for the country or are they destroying the economy which is already in bad shape. What good does it do with all this MOB? Is it the time? Is it not of persnal interest? Take a good look on the streets, check out the toursim figure, check out all the tourist holiday destination than you come back and tell me what Max said is not right. DKO, I'm not angry with your comment but just find it unreasonable and not actually aiming at the present situation of Thai people. I'm not sideing any party of Government. I sideing on the Thai people who is suffering from all these. Yoon? Yoon was never neutral on his reports.
comment 15
Ian date : 28/05/2008 time : 10.26
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

DKO, unless I misunderstood the article I quoted, the PAD had a force of 200 guards which existed before the recent attacks. I think the agression we have seen on TV was actually fighting between the "soldiers" on both sides of the dispute. If so then this would in part explain the police inaction.
Catapaults are a lethal weapon used with stones, as much so as a hand gun, David and Goliath is a classic example.
What we are seeing here is a deliberate and provocative escalation of the violence, it is a short step from catapaults to guns and molotovs.
The final step is civil war, then what?
A truckload of people from my village joined the PAD rally, why? Because they cannot afford to both eat AND get drunk every night, and they blame Samak. If I was running the PAD these are not the sort of supporters I would want.
Thailand is in a mess and any intelligent person knows why, but these mobs are not intelligent, they just hit out blindly in their ignorance and allow self seeking politicians to manipulate them.
I agree with your arguments for rallies, but these are not rallies, they are just mobs, with mob mentalities.
comment 14
DKO date : 28/05/2008 time : 09.34
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/DKO

Lalida (C10).

Yes I read about the self protection methods and agree the carrying of these are provocative and use as intended not legal, dangerous and not acceptable.

Irrespective of what various groups believe, they ALL have a right to be protected by the Police if physically or threatened by other groups or individuals.

When a Group decides to obtain catapults and sacks of stones as Ian has mentioned that begs two questions

1) Are they happy/desire to have a fight?
2) Are the Police not protecting them as is reasonable to expect?

Ian I do not stand for on side or the other but I feel your comment
"It would seem that the PAD is not as innocently peaceful as has been claimed"
could be a little simplistic and misleading.

If Yoon has reported correctly and neutrally then it suggests that the PAD are in serious danger of physical harm whilst the Police stand aside and let attacks on them occur.

Now what should they do; Be bullied into NOT rallying and demonstrating by those willing to use violence against them??
They have a legal democratic right to demonstrate peacefully and within the law.

Now having said that, reacting with violence is NOT acceptable either. It seems to me the Police IF guilty of standing aside need to reminded of their duty AND maybe allegiances which should be the people not particular factions they agree with or bowing to people of influence.

With regard to any body's motives for demonstrating I fail to see that is relevant PROVIDED they demonstrate within the Law - that as I said before is their legal democratic right.

Max's comment "This isn't the time anyone with brains goes to rally in the streets but anyone with brains and a heart for the country would go and work to rebuild the economy and reform government"

I feel that is not a neutral stand point. Yes it is politically as you have not taken sides on what the rallies stand for. BUT to suggest that rallies are not appropriate when that is one of the oldest methods for bringing matters to the attention of the masses and people of influence.

Rallies and their messages are hard to ignore. I am not suggesting that those who rally will win)

We see election candidates hold rallies. Are rallies only appropriate for that purpose? I think not.

I also think it unfair to assume those who do rally do not have "brains and a heart for the country would go and work to rebuild the economy and reform government".

I am sure most have good brains and love the country and I suspect many of them work hard by day and demonstrate in their own free time or even take annual leave. I feel your comments is some what unfair. How many days a year do these people rally? and are they always the same people.

How many of us would bother to go to Bangkok and rally for what we believe in (be it pro or anti PAD or other causes. At least these people DO bother whilst most of us sit back and let matters unfold.

Let us not forget the the TRT problems of thew past and people sitting back for too long allowed the situation to finally escalate and trigger a Military coup. We are STILL suffering under the flak and side issues from all that.

MAYBE these rallies on the various issues will be heard and considered (pro or anti) and a possible future coup avoided.

I SURE HOPE SO.

Regards, Dave
comment 13
wch date : 28/05/2008 time : 09.26

mob violence
is different from LYNCH MOB. I think you know well what means the lynch law.

What Chamlong's are doing is, self-defense or vigilante against failed lawforcers and dubious lynch group.

Kom Chad Leuk two days ago, the lynch mobsters were organized among unemployees in Samut Prakan province. They were well prepared in pickup trucks and van.
There was no demonstation gethering of Pro-Thaksin group at that site at that time.

Also the daily reported, Jakrapob group, so called "Ne-OO Ruam against coup" were given a pamplet teaching how to assemble Molotov Cocktail.

Here Chamlong is justifiable.
wch
comment 12
Lalida date : 27/05/2008 time : 18.04
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

BTW Yoon,

Which and whose demorcacy you are refering to on your title?
comment 11
Lalida date : 27/05/2008 time : 16.24
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Yoon,

If I may just out of curosity, are you commenting on behalf of Nation or just your own views? Don't think you'll reply anyway.
comment 10
Lalida date : 27/05/2008 time : 16.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real

Yeah Ian, I read that too... Yoon or the majority if the web blog will probably commented as self defense.... and legal.
comment 9
Ian date : 27/05/2008 time : 12.32
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

wch, I am not a supporter of mob violence for any cause. I now read that the PAD has an employed force of 200 guards and that these are now armed with catapaults and sacks of stones. It would seem that the PAD is not as innocently peaceful as has been claimed.
comment 8
wch date : 27/05/2008 time : 12.25

Very sorry for the under.
My 'enter' key is bad now.
wch
comment 7
wch date : 27/05/2008 time : 12.24

"lynch groups" and "unprotected other party".
as Yoon, also implies in his speech, these two words are more corrective vocables to illustrate the scenes, and that the journos must adopt in their reports. I just introduce them a new word.

Ian,
I am emotive because I am not a journalist but
If I am, at least i will try to choose more correct, graphically understandable words.
wch




























































I won't deny myself, Ian,
in those scenes in that one keeping calmity was strange
comment 6
Ian date : 27/05/2008 time : 11.12
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

wch, you have often argued with Piset, but you both have one thing in common, you love to use emotive language, rather like a reporter for a gutter tabloid.
Two examples, "lynch groups" and "unprotected other party".
An example from Piset, "pro-Thaksin gangsters".

By writing this way you express a view as equally biased as that you accuse others of doing.
comment 5
wch date : 27/05/2008 time : 10.23

Writing skill of journos also is big problem.

Apparently in the scene, the lynch groups, charged with bats and bottles toward PAD gathering.
This is the terror by one party group to unprotected other party.

However you described this scene,
" Two groups collided ".
Is this correct expression ?.
You are misguiding the readers.
wch
comment 4
MaxHeadroom date : 27/05/2008 time : 08.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

I think neither me nor Ian have said anything that we agree with violent demonstrations. Apart from that you are wrong: during the coup period the police and the military prevented countless demonstrations from going anywhere in the area and even threatened to arrest demonstrators.

They imposed martial law on most of Thailand to hinder people from expressing their dissent and as such violated our human- and constitutional rights.

Also consider this political reality: if you feel untouchable and omnipotent but do a lot of things that aren't really giving anyone the impression that you are the nice-guy you pretend to be - sure there will be very tense demonstrations and clashes are preprogrammed.

But Chamlong is a professional mob leader and has incited a lot of violence in his career - sometimes being on "the other side" having the police against him. In this climate and present situation let me tell you this Piset for the last time: I don't side with anyone here and as such won't go there with you as well.

At this time what Chamlong is doing may be his constitutional right but it is not doing any good and I doubt his motives and vision for the country for he contradicts his own proclaimed Dhamma philosophy - the later he has been abusing for his propaganda as much as people with adverse interest abuse the monarchy for politics.

This isn't the time anyone with brains goes to rally in the streets but anyone with brains and a heart for the country would go and work to rebuild the economy and reform government.
comment 3
Piset date : 26/05/2008 time : 23.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Ian, Max:

All you need to do is to compare this recent event as opposed to the demonstrators from the pro-Thaksin people marching on to General Prem's residence and answer these questions:

1) Did the police prevented the pro-TRT mob from going to Prem's residentce, as oppose to they blocking the PAD demonstrators from going to the Government House.

The former was a very questionable movement carried out with violents, while the PAD march was a legit8imate one under Thai law and Thai constitution. The Thai police failed to prevent that former mob while blocking the rightful movement of PAD. This show which side the police and Ian and Max are on.

2) Were there anyone insulting or assualting the pro-taksin mob? as oppose to the pro-Thaksin gangsters attempt at humiliating the participants of every one of PAD's movement, increasingly more and more violent.

Now, gentlemen, Ian and Max, in your mind what is the difference between the disorderly conducts and the rightful demonstrations since you called both group "mobs." Perhaps, you can shade us some light with reference to the "democratic" and "civilized societies" you guys came from.
comment 2
Ian date : 26/05/2008 time : 15.17
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

I don't think it is violence against democracy, it is simply a clash between the supporters of opposing vested interests.
I have seen worse in the streets of London, Paris, Rome and many other places.
comment 1
MaxHeadroom date : 26/05/2008 time : 14.10
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/maxheadroom

Violence against democracy? I think it's more one mob meeting the other mob in a war fought via the street rather than on the discussion table.

Both sides are paid proxies working for the club of friends-turned foe and mentors-turned foe.

A few street clashed ain't the end of the world - democracy will - has - to survive this. But Yoon - it is obvious who you are siding with. Sure it's legitimate to do so and me too - I have no sympathy for violent mob. But then: in the real world you have to expect this if you come up with such tactics as employed by the PAD.

Rescue this great military constitution... How pathetic.
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