• FelixQui
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A Happy One
Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas
Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui
Thursday , April 3 , 2008
More Evil in China
Posted by FelixQui , Reader : 337 , 13:10:18   | Category : Ethics  
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The Chinese government has just sentenced human rights activist Hu Jia to to three-and-a-half years in prison. What did he do? He honestly reported on human rights abuses.
And the charge: "inciting subversion of state power and the socialist system". What that means is, he thought the CHinese people had a right to ... know what was happening. And he recklessly tried to tell people ... the truth about what was happening.

He deserves an award for service to his nation, but instead is jailed.

This is a good example of what is most evil in the Chinese Communist party, and shows, yet again, that their greatest fear is the spread of knowledge that will break the blanket of ingnorance that their despotic rule requires in order to continue.

Will the Chinese people protest this evil committed by their government?
Will they sheepishly do as ordered?
Will they even know?

More details are in:
the Nation at  http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30069987
the BBC at  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7327718.stm


Read comment

comment 29
Piset date : 06/04/2008 time : 10.50
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Obey:

You have hit it right on the head of the nail. There is an old Chinese proverb saying: "Follow the local tradition when entering a village and follow the coastline when entering a harbor." (When in Rome, do as the Romans do)

The system that have existed in China today has not been changed overnight. Thus, if you desire to change anything, you can either take advantage of the existed system, such as, Deng Xiao Ping had, or bang your head against the brick wall.

This is the same in every country. I did the same rebellious things while working as the civil servant in Thailand. It did not help anyone or anything very much.
comment 28
Obeyno1kinobe date : 05/04/2008 time : 21.18
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/obeyno1

I saw this on BBC world, while in KL.
Sad, but no surprise.
This is part of the real China.
Just like Guantanemo is part of the US behaviour.

I wonder if, one day, he will be seen as a hero something like Nelson Mandela.
I'm not sure. There doesn't seem to be much sympathy from other Chinese for another "stirrer", or is it fear.

We know some Chinese want(ed) change back in Tienenmin (sorry for spelling)

The communists were revolutionaries once. As was Washington.
comment 27
FelixQui date : 04/04/2008 time : 19.51
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Piset,
I also agree that China has made impressive progress since it was freed of the curse of Mao and was ennabled to start moving more towards Western ways of thinking.
The recent move to free up access to the BBC in China seemed to me another step in that right direction. I hope it continues; there is certainly plenty of room for improvement, nor are Western nations uniformly perfect; if Bush had his way, the US would slide backwards even more and ban things such as flag burning. Thankfully, it's hard to imagine any US Supreme Court allowing that sort of nonsense to pass as law. Unlike Thailand and many other nations, the US does have a pretty good constitution to prevent the vilest government abuses, however well intended those evils may be.
comment 26
Ian date : 04/04/2008 time : 13.22
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Piset, at last! If you had said this sooner, ". I simply wish to say things are neither black or white. "
Then agreement could have been reached sooner. Yes, China has made great strides in the last few decades, but often by trampling on people's civil rights. China is both good and bad.
Thailand has trampled on people's rights yet no apparent good has come from it.
In the West most countries plod along in a grey area, sometimes good sometimes bad.
comment 25
Piset date : 04/04/2008 time : 12.24
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Ian:

Once, arguing my point that the university rector who was a civil engineer should abide by his professional ethics not to interfere with the areas out of his specialisation, that is, professional business education, his deputy said: "When the rector and me toured the foreign countries, we didn't see only the engineering fields, we also looked at the other fields as well."

Against that, my respond was, "If what you and the rector saw on those tours could qualify you as a professional business educator (It was a gathering of the 40 top business educators of the country on the consideration of the curricula changes), then I should be able to qualify myself as an Oceanographer or Forestry expert from the amount of the ocean and forest that I saw while in the plane. . . . .

(Of course it was only days before I tendered my resignation from the government services)

Here, Hermano and you both have seen China from the air. You have seen some from the ground. I lived here in my 18th year on the ground.

No, China is not a world leader in Human Right or Wealth Distribution. You have to agree that, the amount of progress and changes for the better during the past 29 years are simply beyond any expectation or imagination.

No trumphets for China here. I simply wish to say things are neither black or white. It (and everywhere else) has been somewhere between which from what I see and touch 24 hours each day, much much more good things than bad things.
comment 24
Dalmasian date : 04/04/2008 time : 12.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dalmasian

Hermano, thanks for your quick response. I have read the blog that you mentioned before but am not really satisfied by the discussions that took place,

-- Dalmasian
comment 23
Ian date : 04/04/2008 time : 09.52
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Piset, before you started so stridently blowing China's trumpet, I quite liked the Chinese people and China. You have undermined that quite a lot by showing me a different face of China, the face of oppression and censorship.
I have actually visited these so called restricted zones, I have photos to prove it. I actually toured them for several days in a car driven by a senior police officer, but in plain clothes and a plain car.
comment 22
Piset date : 04/04/2008 time : 09.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

correction, typing error: HRH Princess, not HRP....
comment 21
Piset date : 04/04/2008 time : 09.35
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Herman:

You are absolutely right about never take the wood's appearance to represent the forest. Afterall, hardly anybody can see each of those trees in any forest, all we can do is to generalize from the samples that we have seen. Here I have a few points of facts:

1) In 1957 I had to go to Vientian, Laos, and in 1958-60 I had to go to Taipei, Taiwan in order to further my learning of Chinese language beyond the fifth grade because Thai government had banned the teaching of Chinese language in Thailand. Why? Why are all the Thai schools now since the past 10 years have been allowed to and have been actively engaged in teaching Chinese language. Thai government even had sent their officials, and gave scholarships for students to go to China to learn Chinese language since then? Why? Undeniably, it is due to the strong development of Chinese economy and the growing influence that this market has on regional and global economy. This is econmic development, much beyond what I saw in those mountainous villages.

2) I just saw a news report on TV last night about HRP Princess Sirinthorn (Phra Dheb) visitting China, perhaps for the 20th times. She loves China and Chinese people and leaders all love her. I also owned a Chinese language book of collection of her work in Chinese poems, and painting. I wouldn't sell that book at any price. (I accidentally found that book in a bookstore in Nanchang, Jiangxi.

3) I don't need to help China boast about their achievements at all. Just want to tell you that, "China ain't as bad as you might think."
comment 20
FelixQui date : 04/04/2008 time : 05.44
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

The BBC has recently responded to Chinese complaints of biased reporting at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7327886.stm

That the Chinese have begun to open up by unblocking a little more information is a good sign.
comment 19
Hermano_Lobo date : 04/04/2008 time : 04.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

Dalmasian-
I have friends that are pilots,but I, sadly am not.
Take a look at the blog about the end of the World and Mayans again. There Ian,Felixqui and I, debate this subject at length.
I am sure there is something to it ; but of course have no proof !
comment 18
Dalmasian date : 04/04/2008 time : 01.23
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dalmasian

Hermano, ae you a pilot or member of a flight crew? Have you ever come across any UFO or such during any of your regular flights all over the world?

I understnad many pilots, both commercial and military, have reported seeing UFOs during their routine flights and reported these incidents to the head office, grund control personnels and the authorities in their countries. But these seem never to be reported by the press.

Even U.S. astronauts have reported UFO following them enroue to outer space or in outer space. Are these stories true? I have watched several documentaries on The History Channel about UFOs and I am intriqued by these stories.

-- Dalmasian
comment 17
naive date : 04/04/2008 time : 00.13
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/naive
Narrow and wide by "Naive" point of view. ...................................*v*....................................................................For Thai reader visit http://www.oknation.net/blog/wickedgirl

Hmm.. as it's so hard to control such big land and very large numbers of population.. They think they have enought reason to do so.. And just few people will know how important the human right is.. as long as they have enought meals and shelter for living..
most people will care for nothing..
comment 16
Hermano_Lobo date : 03/04/2008 time : 23.38
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez

Piset,

There is an English expression = 'Cannot see the wood for the trees'

This describes your attitude towards China.
comment 15
Piset date : 03/04/2008 time : 22.30
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Ian:

While working for C.P. I sold swine and chicken feeds to the farmers and trained the vets to use C.P.'s feeds.

Very honestly, the faces I saw in those remote farming families were radiating with happiness for the recent changes that they had had. Perhaps, in many way, similar to those farmers in the North and Northeast of Thailand now, as long as they got enough for their livelihood, they don't really care about the political system, voting or freedom that many might have mentioned.

60% of the farming towns that I visitted in Sichuan provinces, I learned later, were classified as the "protected zone" in which foreigners were banned from entering (maybe due to the relative backward economic development state).
comment 14
Ian date : 03/04/2008 time : 22.20
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Got a nice big stockpile of rice I hope then
comment 13
Piset date : 03/04/2008 time : 22.19
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Correction:

Soviet did not have the agriculture. Not, "Soviet did not have the economy."
comment 12
Piset date : 03/04/2008 time : 22.16
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Felix:

I have noticed your emphases on two points, "freedom" and the "copying" of western system.

Let's look around for countries that had adopted the concept of "freedom" and had tried to "copy" the west's political and economic system and see how many of them have been able to develop their economy the way China has since 1979. India, Pakistan, Phillippines, the former Soviet Union East German had their experiments on "freedom" but could not bring their economy to prosperity. Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea had adopt the free economic system but not the freedom of speech or political freedoms. Could you identify where was China in 1979-1993 differed from the mentioned economies to make the rapid development since 1993 possible.

What I have noted was the change from the relatively fixed income to fixed taxes that had motivated the farmers to try to produce the maximum of excess above and beyond the taxes. This motivation has immediately change China from an importing country for grains food to a self sufficient and exporter of grains and food.

When food are plentiful the society becomes more stable and agreeable to further changes. Soviet did not have the economy, India could not give every farmer the same kine of farm land the way China did. In fact no other countries has implementted the farm land allocation to the farmers as successful as China. When everyone has a home base which can produce enough food to feed the family (most of the families although not 100%) then the foundation for a growing economy has been established.

There has never been any system like this any where else in the world.

I have come to work in China 18 years ago. I was rather tense about the political system at the beginning. I can see and can feel the gradual change under "the Chinese's own way." Certainly, it has never and will never attempt or claim to have attempt any political freedom the way you might have in Scandinavia. Afterall, freedom of speech in China today, might not be that much behind Singapore. Checked?
comment 11
Ian date : 03/04/2008 time : 22.02
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

Anyone can look tall if they stand on the shoulders of giants:-)
comment 10
FelixQui date : 03/04/2008 time : 21.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

The British, American and other Western economies were able to develop and dominate the word, including China, because they allowed and even encouraged, free speech, free inquiry and critical thinking in liberal atmospheres (I am not saying any were perfect, just vastly better than all the rest). China has stolen the fruits of their labours and will not continue to grow at the same rate, or achieve anything of original value, unless it also adopts the Western ideals of freedom that allow such creativity.
Naturally the West developed more slowly - it had to do the actual work of creating the technology. It's the West that continues to do basic science. That Western economies and nations have done so well for so long is proof that their freedoms do go well with strong economic growth and political stability. How long has CHina been stable? How long has it had a healthy economy? How long will it remain stable?
comment 9
FelixQui date : 03/04/2008 time : 21.40
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Piset,
I think you are completely wrong about the possibility of economic development in China. It has developed quickly after the happy demise of Mao preceisly because it more eagerly began adopting Western ways. It was the eager embrace of Western technology and the freeing up of business that made the recent rapid growth possible. It might easily have been even faster with more freedom. It is hardly a coincidence that the greatest advances are in the areas most free and most open to the West.

You say that you "will not defend any violation of laws." Does that mean you think that any law should be obeyed simpy because it is the law, even if clearly unjust, or downright evil?
comment 8
Hermano_Lobo date : 03/04/2008 time : 19.48
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/yurivelasquez


All nations and governments do it to some extent, because it is about people control by the elite over the masses. Unless someone here is keeping quiet about it, we are also part of the masses.

The Chinese seem particularly brutal about it on a large scale. Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe is just the same. You would not be surprised to learn that he is supported by the Chinese. In this case, who taught who, their methods ?

With UFO's it is more complex than brutal repression. I asked too many questions once and got warned off, that was many years ago. But at the time I thought that if I had not been warned off and they had just laughed, they weren't taking it seriously. The EU takes it very seriously, but they are part of NATO.
There is something called gun-camera film. This is the film on jet-fighter aircraft to record kills, and how they do it.
I am led to believe, but I have no proof because it is classified that 'gun-camera' film contains some very interesting UFO film. In rare cases, UFO's were actually fired upon, as in Iraq during the 1980's. The Iranians had a similar incident in with a couple of F4 Phantoms. They couldn't fire as their electrics were disabled.
This is off at a tangent a bit, but it does go to show that people at the top guard certain knowledege very jealously.
comment 7
Piset date : 03/04/2008 time : 18.47
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/mahwatthai
Piset

Felix:

I am not here to offer any helps or defense of the action of Chinese government. However, I am sure you and/or many in this blog might have expected so.

What surprised me is the relatively light term of punishment of only 3 and a half year in a land which similar offense could have carried much harsher punishment. Since, your blog is my first exposure to this case. I would be interested to learn more about it.

In any case, I really cannot imagine any political freedom to the degree of the "Hi-Park" of England of the SDS (Student for Democratic Society) in the US in China any time soon. In fact I would dread the day when China become too linient tio those law breakers or those attempting to destabilize the social order. Here, I have seen an engineer with 25 years experiences being delighted by my offer of a full time job for 200 RMB (about $27.15) per month in 1991 comparing to my current assistant, a bachelor degree graduate with 5 years experiences earning well over 10,000 RMB (about $1,429) a month owning her own apartment and her own automobile now.

I will not defend any violation of laws. However, I would imagine that the economic development at the pace I have seen is impossible under the British or American system of politic or economic.
comment 6
Dalmasian date : 03/04/2008 time : 18.27
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dalmasian

Felix,

You are right. We have every freedom to write about UFOs in North America. Unfortunately, many people who supposedly witnessed sightings of UFOs are afraid of being ridiculed in public and have elected to keep their mouth shut. And the governments refused to disclose the actual results of their investigations.

My question is, why such secrecy? We the people are entitled to know what is happening. We do not want to be treated like mushrooms, kept in a dark room and fed shit all the time from governments that were supposedly elected by the people, for the people and to serve the people.

UFOs are just one example. There are countless instances of government keeping important information from the people and these must come to an end in truly free and democratic societies.

-- Dalmasian
comment 5
FelixQui date : 03/04/2008 time : 17.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/FelixQui

Dalmasian,
The significant difference is that any looney can say what they like about UFOs in the US and Canada without fear of being shut away for a few years, as the news and Blogs testify. Indeed, people can manufacture lies for profit about such topics with little fear of punishment.
comment 4
narcisuss date : 03/04/2008 time : 16.08
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/narcisuss
I  come in peace :)

ok, time to boycott the olympics
comment 3
Dalmasian date : 03/04/2008 time : 15.45
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dalmasian

should be "feed them shit" and not "feed the shit."

-- Dalmasian
comment 2
Dalmasian date : 03/04/2008 time : 15.42
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/dalmasian

I agree with Ian 100%. China is not the only government that sometimes keeps its people in the dark and feed the shit.

Sometimes the American and Canadian governments do the same things as well. Notice how quiet they are about UFO investigations and other "classifed" information.

-- Dalmasian
comment 1
Ian date : 03/04/2008 time : 13.53
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/anterian36

China is just the visible tip of an attitude which prevails everywhere in Asia. Whether it be Burma, Filipines, Indonesia, Malaysia or even Thailand.
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